587 réponses à ce sujet

[BlacJAC74]

redplague wrote...

I think Bioware's PR attention hasn't caught up with how big a company they are. Thet still try to give the impression that they are a bunch of student genius's winging it and making it up as they go along.

But they need to get out of that and realise they can't do that anymore, Blizzard realised it and recently CCP have as well, now Bioware needs a better PR strategy. I mean Casey Hudson's comment about ABC endings. Why was he allowed to say that?! This entire game has been a PR disaster.

Tbh, the ending is probably been a blessing in disguise for BioWare. It's deflected the attention away from the other major shortcomings in the game like how little the actual universe is. I mean, i meet ex squadmates on every side mission i do. A shocking array of side quests, that are all poorly constructed. 

"oh, hi Jack, you're here, what a small universe it is"
"I just bumped into Grunt on my last mission and before that, Jacob too"

The non updating quest descriptions, the ambiguous natare of the fetch quests and so on.  Compared to those things, the ending is a small issue, but no, people just get their daisy dukes in a twist becasue they didn't get to disappear into the distance at the end with their LI in tow or over 1 or 2 plotholes.

[Nerevar-as]

BlacJAC74 wrote...

redplague wrote...

I think Bioware's PR attention hasn't caught up with how big a company they are. Thet still try to give the impression that they are a bunch of student genius's winging it and making it up as they go along.

But they need to get out of that and realise they can't do that anymore, Blizzard realised it and recently CCP have as well, now Bioware needs a better PR strategy. I mean Casey Hudson's comment about ABC endings. Why was he allowed to say that?! This entire game has been a PR disaster.

Tbh, the ending is probably been a blessing in disguise for BioWare. It's deflected the attention away from the other major shortcomings in the game like how little the actual universe is. I mean, i meet ex squadmates on every side mission i do. A shocking array of side quests, that are all poorly constructed. 

"oh, hi Jack, you're here, what a small universe it is"
"I just bumped into Grunt on my last mission and before that, Jacob too"

The non updating quest descriptions, the ambiguous natare of the fetch quests and so on.  Compared to those things, the ending is a small issue, but no, people just get their daisy dukes in a twist becasue they didn't get to disappear into the distance at the end with their LI in tow or over 1 or 2 plotholes.

There´s nothing major about that. Arcangel being Garrus was far worse, killing thugs instead of preparing for the Reapers. Nice priorities there.

Little makes sense once you get to the Citadel (and the Catalist going down cycle through cycle doesn´t either), nothing after you meet the Guardian. The conclusion of a story making no sense with said story and almost completely invalidating what happened throughout the 3 games is far worse than some not so contrived coincidences. And they claim artistic integrity... really?

I just hope DLC sells less than DA2 ones. It´s not like there´s much point to playing them anyway. Maybe then they´ll realize how out of touch they are.

[FosterBr717]

Hahaha,

You guys must hate every single game that ever comes out. Can't remember that last game that came out that didn't fail to deliver something that was promised during development. That happens with every game.

BioShock promised more than ME3 did, but it still was a awesome game. You should judge a game by the actual content of the disc, not what was promised months, or even years ago. That's just plain stupid.

From the way this board is right now, you'd think every one just got done playing Vampire Rain or something.

[Elhanan]

Taritu wrote...

If you don't have the game, you don't know what you're talking about.  So perhaps you should not talk about what you don't understand.

The fact that it is impossible to get the best (breath) ending playing just SP in a completionist ME3 game is now well established.  It is simply a fact.  That you, who don't even own the game, and who haven't done any real research (check the wikis for a list of war assets) think otherwise is irrelevant.

This is minor compared to the other issues, but it is a fact.

One does not need to play the game to read what others have posted that opposes these so-called facts. And as one that does not play the game, the Wiki entriy does not interest me (and it was a false Wiki entry that told me of the ME1 max stuff, too).

If something is glitched, I hope the next patch will help. But for the Hold The Whiners crowd; they are simply not owed anything; received what was stated.

[Elhanan]

Lincoln MuaDib wrote...

Well, I do have doubt. Do I need a reason or motive to disbelieve? Well, do you need a reason or motive to believe them?

BioWare earned my trust- I bought ME3 prerelease (7 months early), I bought ME1 and ME2, I bought all the DLC for ME2 (it added up quite a bit), I bought the IRL t- shirts and wore them with pride. I had trust.

But the ending made that trust gone. You can trust your local doctor for 40 years, but if you were suddenly to come across your doctor in the street, needle in his or her arm, tripping balls, your trust would be broken.

Could they get it back? Absolutely. Could BioWare regain our trust? Of course.

But saying "Just TRUST us!" doesn't work.

And there is a median between BioWare apologists and Howling Hyenas of Death, you know.

I've always said I LOVE 99.9% of ME3. LOVE IT!

But the ending, well, it does go against every other part of the Mass Effect theme.

I mean, at the end of ME2, you can go into your cabin and cuddle Garrus (shut up, no other love interestr is worthy! Grrr!). At the end of ME3- nothing. Poor.

But I don't support scrapping the ending- just adding to it, so those that like it as it is can keep it, and those that don't can change it.

Choice- that's what Mass Effect is all about, right?

And that would be the difference between us: they lost your trust over a 10 min ending, and I value mine more. I do not agree with all of Bioware's decisions, and will not play ME3 because of some of them (eg; profanity, thermal clips; etc). But I still trust them, or I would not bother posting here.

[redplague]

FosterBr717 wrote...

Hahaha,

You guys must hate every single game that ever comes out. Can't remember that last game that came out that didn't fail to deliver something that was promised during development. That happens with every game.

BioShock promised more than ME3 did, but it still was a awesome game. You should judge a game by the actual content of the disc, not what was promised months, or even years ago. That's just plain stupid.

From the way this board is right now, you'd think every one just got done playing Vampire Rain or something.

Could you give an example of what was said about Bioshock.

[jess05]

FosterBr717 wrote...

You should judge a game by the actual content of the disc, not what was promised months, or even years ago. That's just plain stupid.

\\.

To extent, that may be true when the game is still a WIP. 

But when a game goes gold, its already complete. This happened in Feb. yet promises (FALSE promises) were made after the fact.
Thats false advertisement and not right no matter what type of Spin you put on it.

[Calemyr]

And also how it's at all relevant? You said it yourself. Bioshock 2 was good. The beginning, the middle, and the ending. An ending which, I might point out, took your actions throughout the game into account despite being entirely dictated by someone you had no direct control over?

Modifié par Calemyr, 24 mars 2012 - 02:00 .

[FosterBr717]

redplague wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

Hahaha,

You guys must hate every single game that ever comes out. Can't remember that last game that came out that didn't fail to deliver something that was promised during development. That happens with every game.

BioShock promised more than ME3 did, but it still was a awesome game. You should judge a game by the actual content of the disc, not what was promised months, or even years ago. That's just plain stupid.

From the way this board is right now, you'd think every one just got done playing Vampire Rain or something.

Could you give an example of what was said about Bioshock.

Early in development it was promised that there wouold be a set of choices you would have to make in the game pertaining to the world of Rapture's governmental structure that would effect the kind of person you were, and in turn effect the ending of the game.

Once the game was release, we all realized that the only thing that effects the ending is if you do, or do not, harvest the little sisters.

It was no big deal since the game was amazing. I'm sure if you put other games under the same microscope that Mass Effect seems to be under, you could also find little lies, and misleadings with ANY game EVER released. It's part of the industry. That goes for movies, music, and books as well. Fable 1, 2, and 3 are all also widely known for promising things that never came to be.

If you can honestly say that Mass Effect 3 is the first time you've ever been promised something that was never delivered, I would say you need to start paying attention to early developments of game. This happens with almost every single game ever.

Kingdoms of Amular is a recent example of huge misleadings in the development cycle, but it was still well received by critics and gamers alike.

The only point I'm trying to make is, if your only complaint is that you were promised something that was never delivered on, it just seems to be a weak argument. Because honestly, that's life.

[abaris]

FosterBr717 wrote...

The only point I'm trying to make is, if your only complaint is that you were promised something that was never delivered on, it just seems to be a weak argument. Because honestly, that's life.

Yeah, but people tend to believe every official statement. Personally I don't, since I know industries, advertising and PR from the inside and came to loath it. When I'm fed another sentence from PR 101 I get sick. And that's what happened and still happens.

That's why I think it's a good thing when people start to demand all these promises to be true, since this BS goes on for a very long time now. Not only in the gaming industry but all over the spectrum. Corporations invest a ridiculous amount of money into their PR guys. Money that would be actually put to better use by delivering solid goods.

So yes, keep it coming. Nail them with what they have said.

[FosterBr717]

That's fine, if the movement is to stick it to developers for not upholding all of there promises for a games development cycle, I suggest everyone go into their games library and delete\\throw away all of there games. If you dig deep enough, you can always find little things that were promised, and never put into exsitance. It's lfie. I'm sorry if "it's life" isn't a good enough answer, but it's the honest one.

[Ronin1325]

Elhanan wrote...

Multiple endings were stated; this was received, though the numbers may or may not be the same.

"May or may not be the same." We were told that we would not get an "A,B,C" ending. We got that. We were told that we would not be funneled into a 'bespoke' ending, we were. We were told that we would get wildly divergent endings based on our choices through the series. We did not.

I asked you to go through the dev quotes and point-by-point show how they fufilled their statements. Simplifying things to the point where you say "Multiple endings were stated; this was received" is so vague as to be disingenous.

[FosterBr717]

Yes, things were promised that weren't delivered. No one is arguing this. I understand your argument, and why your upset.

My response is, when hasn't this happened in a game's dev cycle? Everyone is getting upset at something that has been going on ever since games started being devloped. Games aside, this just happens with products in general. Ever watch a late night informercial? Like I said, empty promises are just a part of life.

I just don't understand why everyone is singling out BioWare and Mass Effect 3. It's like everyone just discovered this for the first time...

[abaris]

FosterBr717 wrote...

Games aside, this just happens with products in general. Ever watch a late night informercial? Like I said, empty promises are just a part of life.

Exactly.

And that's the main reason why this is a good thing. If a sufficient amount of people says "hey, you promised A and we got B" maybe next time the lies don't come so easily. Regardless if it's about a game or a wad of toilet paper.

[thunderhawk862002]

FosterBr717 wrote...

Yes, things were promised that weren't delivered. No one is arguing this. I understand your argument, and why your upset.

My response is, when hasn't this happened in a game's dev cycle? Everyone is getting upset at something that has been going on ever since games started being devloped. Games aside, this just happens with products in general. Ever watch a late night informercial? Like I said, empty promises are just a part of life.

I just don't understand why everyone is singling out BioWare and Mass Effect 3. It's like everyone just discovered this for the first time...

It's one thing to miss the mark a little bit.  It's another to have the the actual game be the direct opposite of what the developer said it would be.  It would be like Nintendo showing nothing but the realistic Zelda demo showed at their game show for the entire development of Wind Waker. All the screens that would be shown would be similar in style to the demo.  Then when Wind Waker is released you see that the actual game is Cel Shaded.  You know maybe a month before release you should be adjusting your PR statements to reflect the actual game.

[FosterBr717]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

Yes, things were promised that weren't delivered. No one is arguing this. I understand your argument, and why your upset.

My response is, when hasn't this happened in a game's dev cycle? Everyone is getting upset at something that has been going on ever since games started being devloped. Games aside, this just happens with products in general. Ever watch a late night informercial? Like I said, empty promises are just a part of life.

I just don't understand why everyone is singling out BioWare and Mass Effect 3. It's like everyone just discovered this for the first time...

It's one thing to miss the mark a little bit.  It's another to have the the actual game be the direct opposite of what the developer said it would be.  It would be like Nintendo showing nothing but the realistic Zelda demo showed at their game show for the entire development of Wind Waker. All the screens that would be shown would be similar in style to the demo.  Then when Wind Waker is released you see that the actual game is Cel Shaded.  You know maybe a month before release you should be adjusting your PR statements to reflect the actual game.

And that's the problem. If people were discussing the entire game as a complete failure, that's one thing. But the only thing negative I hear about the game is just the last 15 minutes. No one is saying anything bad about the other 99% of the game. If a game company makes a game that is 99% awesome, and just misses the last 15 minutes, normally that equals a huge sucess. No game is perfect. They created an almost perfect game, and just due to one small 1% of the game, people are up in arms about it. That's like hating Resident Evil 4 for having quick time events, and condemning the ENTIRE game for it. Sure quick time events suck, but the game is amazing otherwise. That's how I feel about ME3. Sure, the ending sucked, but they gave you an amazing 25-40 hours (something most games can't even do), and just messed up the last 15 minutes. Some of the best games ever created all have parts which miss the mark. I don't see why ME3 has to be 100% perfect to pass. Most games pass with just 50% of it being actually good.

[Ronin1325]

FosterBr717 wrote...

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

Yes, things were promised that weren't delivered. No one is arguing this. I understand your argument, and why your upset.

My response is, when hasn't this happened in a game's dev cycle? Everyone is getting upset at something that has been going on ever since games started being devloped. Games aside, this just happens with products in general. Ever watch a late night informercial? Like I said, empty promises are just a part of life.

I just don't understand why everyone is singling out BioWare and Mass Effect 3. It's like everyone just discovered this for the first time...

It's one thing to miss the mark a little bit.  It's another to have the the actual game be the direct opposite of what the developer said it would be.  It would be like Nintendo showing nothing but the realistic Zelda demo showed at their game show for the entire development of Wind Waker. All the screens that would be shown would be similar in style to the demo.  Then when Wind Waker is released you see that the actual game is Cel Shaded.  You know maybe a month before release you should be adjusting your PR statements to reflect the actual game.

And that's the problem. If people were discussing the entire game as a complete failure, that's one thing. But the only thing negative I hear about the game is just the last 15 minutes. No one is saying anything bad about the other 99% of the game. If a game company makes a game that is 99% awesome, and just misses the last 15 minutes, normally that equals a huge sucess. No game is perfect. They created an almost perfect game, and just due to one small 1% of the game, people are up in arms about it. That's like hating Resident Evil 4 for having quick time events, and condemning the ENTIRE game for it. Sure quick time events suck, but the game is amazing otherwise. That's how I feel about ME3. Sure, the ending sucked, but they gave you an amazing 25-40 hours (something most games can't even do), and just messed up the last 15 minutes. Some of the best games ever created all have parts which miss the mark. I don't see why ME3 has to be 100% perfect to pass. Most games pass with just 50% of it being actually good.

I've said this many times before, but much of the problem comes from how much an individual values endings *period*. In the case of ME, I & many, many others believe it invalidates the entire *series*, not just the last game. Others do not believe so, and I am fine with that, but at the very least it should be recognized that there are valid concerns with the ending even if you like it.

[Spectre197]

All I can say is that when think of games thats promised alot and didnt delivery I could go straight to Fable 2 and 3. Now that has changed congrats Peter your number 2 in most peoples book now.

[redplague]

FosterBr717 wrote...

redplague wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

Hahaha,

You guys must hate every single game that ever comes out. Can't remember that last game that came out that didn't fail to deliver something that was promised during development. That happens with every game.

BioShock promised more than ME3 did, but it still was a awesome game. You should judge a game by the actual content of the disc, not what was promised months, or even years ago. That's just plain stupid.

From the way this board is right now, you'd think every one just got done playing Vampire Rain or something.

Could you give an example of what was said about Bioshock.

Early in development it was promised that there wouold be a set of choices you would have to make in the game pertaining to the world of Rapture's governmental structure that would effect the kind of person you were, and in turn effect the ending of the game.

Once the game was release, we all realized that the only thing that effects the ending is if you do, or do not, harvest the little sisters.

It was no big deal since the game was amazing. I'm sure if you put other games under the same microscope that Mass Effect seems to be under, you could also find little lies, and misleadings with ANY game EVER released. It's part of the industry. That goes for movies, music, and books as well. Fable 1, 2, and 3 are all also widely known for promising things that never came to be.

If you can honestly say that Mass Effect 3 is the first time you've ever been promised something that was never delivered, I would say you need to start paying attention to early developments of game. This happens with almost every single game ever.

Kingdoms of Amular is a recent example of huge misleadings in the development cycle, but it was still well received by critics and gamers alike.

The only point I'm trying to make is, if your only complaint is that you were promised something that was never delivered on, it just seems to be a weak argument. Because honestly, that's life.

Yeah but how many of those were trilogies where you could import a character to the next one carrying all the choices you made with you.  I think in the context of what Mass Effect is the lies they told are much worse than the little design oversites that you get in other games.

[jess05]

 

Modifié par jess05, 24 mars 2012 - 05:15 .

[FosterBr717]

redplague wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

redplague wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

Hahaha,

You guys must hate every single game that ever comes out. Can't remember that last game that came out that didn't fail to deliver something that was promised during development. That happens with every game.

BioShock promised more than ME3 did, but it still was a awesome game. You should judge a game by the actual content of the disc, not what was promised months, or even years ago. That's just plain stupid.

From the way this board is right now, you'd think every one just got done playing Vampire Rain or something.

Could you give an example of what was said about Bioshock.

Early in development it was promised that there wouold be a set of choices you would have to make in the game pertaining to the world of Rapture's governmental structure that would effect the kind of person you were, and in turn effect the ending of the game.

Once the game was release, we all realized that the only thing that effects the ending is if you do, or do not, harvest the little sisters.

It was no big deal since the game was amazing. I'm sure if you put other games under the same microscope that Mass Effect seems to be under, you could also find little lies, and misleadings with ANY game EVER released. It's part of the industry. That goes for movies, music, and books as well. Fable 1, 2, and 3 are all also widely known for promising things that never came to be.

If you can honestly say that Mass Effect 3 is the first time you've ever been promised something that was never delivered, I would say you need to start paying attention to early developments of game. This happens with almost every single game ever.

Kingdoms of Amular is a recent example of huge misleadings in the development cycle, but it was still well received by critics and gamers alike.

The only point I'm trying to make is, if your only complaint is that you were promised something that was never delivered on, it just seems to be a weak argument. Because honestly, that's life.

Yeah but how many of those were trilogies where you could import a character to the next one carrying all the choices you made with you.  I think in the context of what Mass Effect is the lies they told are much worse than the little design oversites that you get in other games.

None of them are. This kind of "import your save from the previous game" trilogy has never been done before. It's ground breaking stuff. Do you honestly expect the end result of something that's never been done before to be perfect? Have you seen the first airplane ever designed? Needless to say, it never flew...

They did there best. They knew they weren't going to be able to persue every single choice in the game into an entire differnet branch of story. So they gave you choices that all ultimatly lead to the same place, like most games do. There isn't a portable storage device that would be able to contain all of the data if every single choice completly changed the entire game. And that's aside from the fact that a triliogy that honestly reflected all the choices you make, and change the story signifcantly, would probably take 20-30 years to development.

[thunderhawk862002]

FosterBr717 wrote...

redplague wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

redplague wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

Hahaha,

You guys must hate every single game that ever comes out. Can't remember that last game that came out that didn't fail to deliver something that was promised during development. That happens with every game.

BioShock promised more than ME3 did, but it still was a awesome game. You should judge a game by the actual content of the disc, not what was promised months, or even years ago. That's just plain stupid.

From the way this board is right now, you'd think every one just got done playing Vampire Rain or something.

Could you give an example of what was said about Bioshock.

Early in development it was promised that there wouold be a set of choices you would have to make in the game pertaining to the world of Rapture's governmental structure that would effect the kind of person you were, and in turn effect the ending of the game.

Once the game was release, we all realized that the only thing that effects the ending is if you do, or do not, harvest the little sisters.

It was no big deal since the game was amazing. I'm sure if you put other games under the same microscope that Mass Effect seems to be under, you could also find little lies, and misleadings with ANY game EVER released. It's part of the industry. That goes for movies, music, and books as well. Fable 1, 2, and 3 are all also widely known for promising things that never came to be.

If you can honestly say that Mass Effect 3 is the first time you've ever been promised something that was never delivered, I would say you need to start paying attention to early developments of game. This happens with almost every single game ever.

Kingdoms of Amular is a recent example of huge misleadings in the development cycle, but it was still well received by critics and gamers alike.

The only point I'm trying to make is, if your only complaint is that you were promised something that was never delivered on, it just seems to be a weak argument. Because honestly, that's life.

Yeah but how many of those were trilogies where you could import a character to the next one carrying all the choices you made with you.  I think in the context of what Mass Effect is the lies they told are much worse than the little design oversites that you get in other games.

None of them are. This kind of "import your save from the previous game" trilogy has never been done before. It's ground breaking stuff. Do you honestly expect the end result of something that's never been done before to be perfect? Have you seen the first airplane ever designed? Needless to say, it never flew...

They did there best. They knew they weren't going to be able to persue every single choice in the game into an entire differnet branch of story. So they gave you choices that all ultimatly lead to the same place, like most games do. There isn't a portable storage device that would be able to contain all of the data if every single choice completly changed the entire game. And that's aside from the fact that a triliogy that honestly reflected all the choices you make, and change the story signifcantly, would probably take 20-30 years to development.

The simplest way would have been to do a Dragon Age: Origin style Epilogue.  Considering even the minor characters were referenced.   At the bare minimum they could have done that.

[jess05]

they will still need to plug some holes IMO.
Like the Catalyst. he makes the entire plotline of ME1 meaningless.

Perhaps they can come up with something to make it all work.

[TheBandit554]

abaris wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

The only point I'm trying to make is, if your only complaint is that you were promised something that was never delivered on, it just seems to be a weak argument. Because honestly, that's life.

Yeah, but people tend to believe every official statement. Personally I don't, since I know industries, advertising and PR from the inside and came to loath it. When I'm fed another sentence from PR 101 I get sick. And that's what happened and still happens.

That's why I think it's a good thing when people start to demand all these promises to be true, since this BS goes on for a very long time now. Not only in the gaming industry but all over the spectrum. Corporations invest a ridiculous amount of money into their PR guys. Money that would be actually put to better use by delivering solid goods.

So yes, keep it coming. Nail them with what they have said.

The problem with this is that, interviews are not official statements. They are opinions and discussions between a dev and the interviewer. If they were stated in an actual advert of ME3 and widely said to be true by said Advertisements, then yeah, viable case. However like I said they are not official statements