587 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Ronin1325 wrote...

"May or may not be the same." We were told that we would not get an "A,B,C" ending. We got that. We were told that we would not be funneled into a 'bespoke' ending, we were. We were told that we would get wildly divergent endings based on our choices through the series. We did not.

I asked you to go through the dev quotes and point-by-point show how they fufilled their statements. Simplifying things to the point where you say "Multiple endings were stated; this was received" is so vague as to be disingenous.

Without playing the game, I cannot debate a point to point contention. But I would be hesitant to do so anyway, as I do not know what was intended or promoted.

That said, I have seen the ending, and I contend what was seen at the end was not the A-B-C scenerio, but was the three endings out of multiple options derived from previous choices. Plus these are only three, and I have heard six commonly, and as many as 15 or 16 are possible.

For instance, the ending I saw had at least three surviving members of the crew in that scene; one of which may have died in ME2 due to inadequate upgrades on Normandy. There should be another ending somewhere out there to cover that omission. 

In this case alone, one gets to see multiple endings based on previous choices, and that is based on a single NPC. My theory is that there are others, but based on choices the Player may only get to see A-B-C of those variations.

The again, I am not upset at the conclusion I saw; am content with the outcome, and am not looking for lone gunmen on the grassy Gnoll (gotta luv D&D puns; take 'em when possible). What I see is a lot of folks upset at the ones they were offered based on their choices; not lies.

[FosterBr717]

thunderhawk862002 wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

redplague wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

redplague wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

Hahaha,

You guys must hate every single game that ever comes out. Can't remember that last game that came out that didn't fail to deliver something that was promised during development. That happens with every game.

BioShock promised more than ME3 did, but it still was a awesome game. You should judge a game by the actual content of the disc, not what was promised months, or even years ago. That's just plain stupid.

From the way this board is right now, you'd think every one just got done playing Vampire Rain or something.

Could you give an example of what was said about Bioshock.

Early in development it was promised that there wouold be a set of choices you would have to make in the game pertaining to the world of Rapture's governmental structure that would effect the kind of person you were, and in turn effect the ending of the game.

Once the game was release, we all realized that the only thing that effects the ending is if you do, or do not, harvest the little sisters.

It was no big deal since the game was amazing. I'm sure if you put other games under the same microscope that Mass Effect seems to be under, you could also find little lies, and misleadings with ANY game EVER released. It's part of the industry. That goes for movies, music, and books as well. Fable 1, 2, and 3 are all also widely known for promising things that never came to be.

If you can honestly say that Mass Effect 3 is the first time you've ever been promised something that was never delivered, I would say you need to start paying attention to early developments of game. This happens with almost every single game ever.

Kingdoms of Amular is a recent example of huge misleadings in the development cycle, but it was still well received by critics and gamers alike.

The only point I'm trying to make is, if your only complaint is that you were promised something that was never delivered on, it just seems to be a weak argument. Because honestly, that's life.

Yeah but how many of those were trilogies where you could import a character to the next one carrying all the choices you made with you.  I think in the context of what Mass Effect is the lies they told are much worse than the little design oversites that you get in other games.

None of them are. This kind of "import your save from the previous game" trilogy has never been done before. It's ground breaking stuff. Do you honestly expect the end result of something that's never been done before to be perfect? Have you seen the first airplane ever designed? Needless to say, it never flew...

They did there best. They knew they weren't going to be able to persue every single choice in the game into an entire differnet branch of story. So they gave you choices that all ultimatly lead to the same place, like most games do. There isn't a portable storage device that would be able to contain all of the data if every single choice completly changed the entire game. And that's aside from the fact that a triliogy that honestly reflected all the choices you make, and change the story signifcantly, would probably take 20-30 years to development.

The simplest way would have been to do a Dragon Age: Origin style Epilogue.  Considering even the minor characters were referenced.   At the bare minimum they could have done that.

No offense, but I call that a "slideshow ending," and I consider them to be the WORST way to end a game. I do not need a slideshow of all the things I did, and what came of them. It's just a personal thing, but I do NOT like slideshow endings. That would have made me more mad then the current ending.

Personally I like the way BioShock and BioShock 2 handle the endings to there games. It's the same way ME3 handled it, and I'm okay with that. I wasn't expecting drastically differnet endings depending on the choices, so I was okay with what I got. Besides were talking about the Reapers here, a force thats been around billions of years harvesting life. None of the choices you made in the game were more significant to the point were it would make a dent.

[aries1001]

As for the import your saves thingie, let me introduce you to a game, or rather a series of games, called: Quest for Glory 1-5. In these games, you could import your character. In BG2 could import your character from BG1. And I seem to remember having read? that even in the Ultima games, maybe Ultima 1-4, you could import your saves? or at least your character as well?

As for Bioware's PR being a disaster, I agree actually a lot with this statement. In Bioware's (corporate)= mind they're probably still the smart, young, and hip newcomer to the scene, even if they're now 17 years old as a game company. They might even still be viewing themselves as a very small or even middle - or indie - company, when in truth they're a big company, they are not indie anymore, and they are definetely not the hip or new kid on the block (or on the citadel...) Micrsoft had the same wake-up moment at one time, I also think it was in 1997 or 1998 or thereabouts when they realized that they now were the new king of the hill. And that this meant that they needed to be organized in a different way. To me, Ray M, co-founder of Bioware needs to take charge now, and to step into his role as boss of the company. Even if he, and Bioware claims, he plays all games before they're released, even Ray M. must have realized that the ending didn't make sense. Ray M, could have played the game, though, and decided that players needed clarifiction and thus they're making on clarifications etc. Could also happen as part of a patch, though, not only through DLC.

Anyway, the gist of it seems to be that EA and Bioware need their PR machines to work together and to prevent? Casey Hudson et al. to tell people something that doesn't turn out to be true at all. I admit that PR in its nature is to lie somewhat to people or to overdo something, but there's exagerration and then there is - well - not telling the truth, or only a part of the truth. In Bioware's case, I would be very, very honest now. And to me, Ray M's statement does a good job, however, it does adress the problem here. Nearly all, or most people, don't seem to understand the ending at all. And let's face it - sometimes an artistic ending that only a few people understand, isn't artistic at all, it just is an ending that makes no sense at all.

I can't remember where I read it, maybe in this thread? But someone mentioned the destruction of the galaxy as to the consequence of what happens during the endings? Are we quite sure of this? Does what happens at the end ensure this...?

[Ronin1325]

Shelmusk wrote...

TheBandit554 wrote...

The problem with this is that, interviews are not official statements. They are opinions and discussions between a dev and the interviewer. If they were stated in an actual advert of ME3 and widely said to be true by said Advertisements, then yeah, viable case. However like I said they are not official statements

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense at all. If an employee talks to the press as a representative of his company about a product they're about to release then the sole purpose of that interview is to advertise for the product. They're not doing it for fun.

I honestly don't know if it can be considered to be an "official statement" by the law (if there's such a thing), but it certainly will be taken seriously by many people.

Especially when we're talking about those statements being made by project leads, not just a grunt in the trenches.

[aries1001]

The official trailers and ad do say 'take back earth'. The man high card board figure of male Shepard at y local Blockbuster says 'Take Back Earth'. This certainly fuels the players expectations that they're going into a fight to take earth back from the reapers, and perhaps even die? in the process. Players do not expect to have a conversation with a ghost in the machine character who has played no-role what so-ever in the games up till now, it seems? Nor did they see or expect a conversation with an - ehm- a child from the stars?

[Elhanan]

While I am not fond of a Visitor approach, it is certainly plausibe in the Sci-Fi setting. And it could be worse; could have chosen to look like Emily Wong, Conrad Verner, or a Volus....

[DarkStar33Cdn]

None of those were lies and most taken horribly out of context.

The classification of lies stem more from user expectations then anything and its funny in a world where Peter Molyneux simply boasts about his product but has never been called a flat out liar (despite actually using the word promise).

Creators get excited about there products, you see the same type of comments of every single guest appearance in every form of media.

Lots of people are personally attacking a few people over a video game, does no one remember what happened the last time the "fans" took some comments out of context and made it personal?

A reminder is at the top of the screen.
I am starting to understand why I got flack from older people when I was young about "ruining things" because calling people liars is not adult way of dealing with your personal displeasure.

Modifié par DarkStar33Cdn, 25 mars 2012 - 04:09 .

[Canxorna Ri]

I guess, we got trolled by Bioware... I gave them a chance after DA2, now I got this to deal with...

[Ghost-621]

 I'll go ahead and bring this back up to the top of the General Discussion board.

Never wanted to say I told you so, BSN, but...

I freakin' told you so.

Modifié par Ghost-621, 26 mars 2012 - 04:37 .

[d.nichols]

Stanley Woo wrote...

NovinhaShepard wrote...

I really don't think they should be sued. So ridiculous.

Remember the time a woman sued McDonalds, because she was clumsy enough to spill HOT coffee down her front at the drive thru?

This is an oft-reported misunderstanding of the case in question. According to Wikipedia's article on the case, the coffee was unreasonably hot, hot enough to cause third-degree burns, requiring hospitalization, skin grafts and 2 years of medical treatment. Read the article. Not frivolous.

But if you repeat something loudly enough and often enough...

Thank you, Stanley Woo! No one ever talks about this part of the case. It was negligence on McDonalds' part. Thank you thank you thank you... but seriously, in regards to Novinha's point, Bioware doesn't deserve to be sued, that's just dumb. That would be like suing a politician for not keeping his campaign promises. Ain't gonna fly.

[abaris]

Shelmusk wrote...

I honestly don't know if it can be considered to be an "official statement" by the law (if there's such a thing), but it certainly will be taken seriously by many people.

And it's really not that important if some law covers advertising lies or - to use a more friendly word - creative approaches to the actual truth.

What is important that someone should nail them with their own PR BS. And by them I don't mean Bioware but the whole business world. Sometimes I get the impression that there's more money pumped into PR than into the actual product. In fact I'm not certain if I'm more apalled by people still buying all these premade phrases or by the corporate assumption of consumers being that stupid.

Modifié par abaris, 26 mars 2012 - 04:49 .

[jspiess]

 [Violation of Rule #6 removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 26 mars 2012 - 10:38 .

[ShinsFortress]

KevShep wrote...

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”



^^^?^^^ Where and when did they go wrong with that one?



Hold the Line!

My first thought would be, early.

[Chewin]

Sadly, listening to the devs so called promises, makes the game worse.

[AntonioA9011]

jspiess wrote...

 

Awesome

[ShinsFortress]

Of all the various threads and explanatory videos, the one in the "x Reasons We Hate Mass Effect 3's Endings" line that is my favourite is  

Modifié par ShinsFortress, 26 mars 2012 - 05:38 .

[I can Hackett]

Lies and fabrications ALL OF IT

[Ronin1325]

TheBandit554 wrote...

abaris wrote...

FosterBr717 wrote...

The only point I'm trying to make is, if your only complaint is that you were promised something that was never delivered on, it just seems to be a weak argument. Because honestly, that's life.

Yeah, but people tend to believe every official statement. Personally I don't, since I know industries, advertising and PR from the inside and came to loath it. When I'm fed another sentence from PR 101 I get sick. And that's what happened and still happens.

That's why I think it's a good thing when people start to demand all these promises to be true, since this BS goes on for a very long time now. Not only in the gaming industry but all over the spectrum. Corporations invest a ridiculous amount of money into their PR guys. Money that would be actually put to better use by delivering solid goods.

So yes, keep it coming. Nail them with what they have said.

The problem with this is that, interviews are not official statements. They are opinions and discussions between a dev and the interviewer. If they were stated in an actual advert of ME3 and widely said to be true by said Advertisements, then yeah, viable case. However like I said they are not official statements

Statements from the lead developers are not official statements? How does that work? 

[thunderhawk862002]

Yellow= indoctrination?

[dragemuyt]

First world problems at it's best. Sorry, had to.

[lofte_2000]

no worse than a dodgy car salesman really

[Ronin1325]

lofte_2000 wrote...

no worse than a dodgy car salesman really

Except that a dodgy car salesman didn't generate tens of millions of dollars in sales based on false statements.

[SalsaDMA]

d.nichols wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

NovinhaShepard wrote...

I really don't think they should be sued. So ridiculous.

Remember the time a woman sued McDonalds, because she was clumsy enough to spill HOT coffee down her front at the drive thru?

This is an oft-reported misunderstanding of the case in question. According to Wikipedia's article on the case, the coffee was unreasonably hot, hot enough to cause third-degree burns, requiring hospitalization, skin grafts and 2 years of medical treatment. Read the article. Not frivolous.

But if you repeat something loudly enough and often enough...

Thank you, Stanley Woo! No one ever talks about this part of the case. It was negligence on McDonalds' part. Thank you thank you thank you... but seriously, in regards to Novinha's point, Bioware doesn't deserve to be sued, that's just dumb. That would be like suing a politician for not keeping his campaign promises. Ain't gonna fly.

Well.. Normally you don't pay politicians for delivering specific products to you.

Or at least, not legally...

[SalsaDMA]

I can Hackett wrote...

jspiess wrote...

 

Awsome, but what was the yellow ending

Marauder Shields saves you?