284 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave Hoffman]

It's actually kind of funny. Somebody filing a complaint with the FTC doesn't surprise me. It would have surprised me a couple hours ago, but not after reading so many complaints on these forums from people who didn't like how a story ended. Wow, people sure just like to complain about stuff.

[KingDan97]

wulf3n wrote...

Lankist wrote...
If you think the FTC is going to consider this to be false advertising, perhaps you should tune in to QVC sometime to see just how flexible truth-in-advertising laws are.

but how are things going to get better if people don't fight for what they believe in?

Oh, I get it, you're a blind idealist. There are proper channels for this of varying degrees. Protests, petitions, boycotting future products and all DLC.

If every one of those 50,000 people honestly didn't buy a piece of Bioware DLC for Mass Effect 3 because of this you can damn well bet that they'll feel it, if those who hated the ending but don't feel they have the right to criticize artistic efforts didn't they'd be writhing in pain. DLC doesn't sell as well as you may think, and if the numbers came up 50000 or more short of expectations from Mass Effect 2, in spite of better initial sales you can bet Bioware would take it seriously,

[The Irish Man]

You know what? I'll give him credit for even going through the trouble of doing this. This is actually quite funny but it also goes to show you that people will do anything to get what they want. Hopefully Bioware will release our suspected DLC that would elaborate on the endings.

[DarkBladeX98]

Just one man......

[Lankist]

dyeowart wrote...

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Strawman.  Did I say that I think the FTC will pursue it?  It's obviously not going to go anywhere, but it's hardly an extreme action.

So you're advocating being loudly vidictive to no real ends?

How is that better?

Vindictive...  are you serious?  Do you really think whoever filed that is actually aiming to damage EA/bioware in any way (hint, even if the FTC took it seriously and decided it was false advertising, it'd be a minor fine at worst)?

It's vindictive because you're waving it around like a battleflag.

Second strawman in three posts.  I'm waiving it around like a battleflag?  All I've said is it's hardly an extreme action.

Edited that post above. I am using the hypothetical "you," which is addressing the position you are advocating, and not you as an individual.

For instance, if I say "If you like the endings then you have low standards," that is a hypothetical 'you', addressing the idea itself through its advocate as a proxy, and not the advocate him/herself.

[Walrusninja]

In every group, every class, every movement, every team, there's someone who takes things too far. Let it go, not worth getting up in arms about it.

[dyeowart]

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Strawman.  Did I say that I think the FTC will pursue it?  It's obviously not going to go anywhere, but it's hardly an extreme action.

So you're advocating being loudly vidictive to no real ends?

How is that better?

Vindictive...  are you serious?  Do you really think whoever filed that is actually aiming to damage EA/bioware in any way (hint, even if the FTC took it seriously and decided it was false advertising, it'd be a minor fine at worst)?

It's vindictive because you're waving it around like a battleflag.

Second strawman in three posts.  I'm waiving it around like a battleflag?  All I've said is it's hardly an extreme action.

Edited that post above. I am using the hypothetical "you," which is addressing the position you are advocating, and not you as an individual.

For instance, if I say "If you like the endings then you have low standards," that is a hypothetical 'you', addressing the idea itself through its advocate as a proxy, and not the advocate him/herself.

My position is that the flaming is ridiculous - it's a legitimate if naive action.  I'm not advocating complaining to the FTC at all, in general I think it's pointless [I'd say the same thing about asking bioware to change the ending too - if there's anything that gamers have proven it's that 99% of people complaining here will buy DLC or a ME4 without a second thought - until you fix that companies will do what they please].  I'm saying that's what they're - in theory - there for, and it's hardly extremism to file a false advertising complaint if you actually think it is false advertising.

Modifié par dyeowart, 19 mars 2012 - 12:57 .

[General User]

ek5000 wrote...
The point I was trying to make is, that if the product in question was anything else than a video game, people wouldn't blame the consumers for complaining.

I don't know about other people, but I say this complaint would be just as reckless, petty, and irresponsible if filed in regards to any entertainment product.  Movies, books, DVD's, anything like that.

ek5000 wrote...
Personally I don't think it's a swell idea to take these complaints that far, but it is within his rights as a paying customer.

I really don't think that anyone's disputing this.  I know I'm not.

Modifié par General User, 19 mars 2012 - 12:56 .

[KingDan97]

dyeowart wrote...

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Strawman.  Did I say that I think the FTC will pursue it?  It's obviously not going to go anywhere, but it's hardly an extreme action.

So you're advocating being loudly vidictive to no real ends?

How is that better?

Vindictive...  are you serious?  Do you really think whoever filed that is actually aiming to damage EA/bioware in any way (hint, even if the FTC took it seriously and decided it was false advertising, it'd be a minor fine at worst)?

If anything I'd chalk it up to naivity - actually thinking false advertising is enforcable is funny in a way.

YES YES THEY WERE. Immediately after doing it he came here and bragged about it, he addressed it to Bioware, regardless of whether there's a chance of it hurting them or not you do not take a swing at someone three times your size.

[PrinceLionheart]

Versus Omnibus wrote...

Don't worry, it won't effect the movement too much. Just keep denouncing his actions and encourage people to keep it civil.

The problem is it only takes a few "zealots" to stereotype an entire movement. All this does is give more ammo for the company and apologists like IGN to strawman those who disliked the ending.

[KaeserZen]

Yeah, that's going a little too far !

For now, BioWare is agreeing to initiate something as close to a dialog as possible. The time of the FTC complaints will be when they decide they won't fix the endings !

[wulf3n]

Lankist wrote...
The FTC is not a soapbox, it is a regulatory agency designed to prevent overtly manipulative business practices (monopolies, artificial scarcity, anti-competition, etc.) that directly harm the national economy, either by manipulating the market directly or manipulating the consumer to the ends of manipulating the market.

really?

Our Mission

To prevent business practices that are anticompetitive or deceptive or unfair to consumers; to enhance informed consumer choice and public understanding of the competitive process; and to accomplish this without unduly burdening legitimate business activity.

Modifié par wulf3n, 19 mars 2012 - 12:58 .

[Heretic19]

The guy that did this is basically Anders. Aren't we supposed to learn from these games?

[Spectre 117]

[quote]General User wrote...

[quote]ek5000 wrote...
The point I was trying to make is, that if the product in question was anything else than a video game, people wouldn't blame the consumers for complaining.[/quote]I don't know about other people, but I say this complaint would be just as reckless, petty, and irresponsible if filed in regards to any entertainment product.  Movies, books, DVD's, anything like that.

[quote]ek5000 wrote...
Personally I don't think it's a swell idea to take these complaints that far, but it is within his rights as a paying customer.
[/quote]I really don't think that anyone's disputing this.  I know I'm not.


Actually in most demos and videos there is a claim that says the final product may be different from what is being shown.

Modifié par Spectre 117, 19 mars 2012 - 01:00 .

[dyeowart]

KingDan97 wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Strawman.  Did I say that I think the FTC will pursue it?  It's obviously not going to go anywhere, but it's hardly an extreme action.

So you're advocating being loudly vidictive to no real ends?

How is that better?

Vindictive...  are you serious?  Do you really think whoever filed that is actually aiming to damage EA/bioware in any way (hint, even if the FTC took it seriously and decided it was false advertising, it'd be a minor fine at worst)?

If anything I'd chalk it up to naivity - actually thinking false advertising is enforcable is funny in a way.

YES YES THEY WERE. Immediately after doing it he came here and bragged about it, he addressed it to Bioware, regardless of whether there's a chance of it hurting them or not you do not take a swing at someone three times your size.

Then yeah, they're an idiot.  I think the largest US false advertising fine on record is about $1m, which is still pocket change in a title like this [and a 'real' fine would be much smaller if proven, which it wouldn't be].

Edit: I suppose if you count drug companies it gets orders of magnitude higher, but that's not even the same legislation.

Modifié par dyeowart, 19 mars 2012 - 01:01 .

[General User]

KingDan97 wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Lankist wrote...
If you think the FTC is going to consider this to be false advertising, perhaps you should tune in to QVC sometime to see just how flexible truth-in-advertising laws are.

but how are things going to get better if people don't fight for what they believe in?

Oh, I get it, you're a blind idealist. There are proper channels for this of varying degrees. Protests, petitions, boycotting future products and all DLC.

Aye.  And if someone truly feels that their concerns on a matter such as this are not being met and/or addressed and that they absolutely must involve a 3rd party, that's what the BBB is for.

[RomanDark]

 Who knows, this could have been an extremely ballsy move by Bioware, posing as a fan, contacting the FTC in order to get Retake seen as being ridiculous by the media and all those who are yet undecided or against us. But I doubt it, just a thought.

[RunicDragons]

*facepalm*

[dyeowart]

RomanDark wrote...

 Who knows, this could have been an extremely ballsy move by Bioware, posing as a fan, contacting the FTC in order to get Retake seen as being ridiculous by the media and all those who are yet undecided or against us. But I doubt it, just a thought.

Very few companies ever try stuff like this - if you get caught it looks... kind of bad.  Not worth it.

[ThePinkFoxx]

It's just stupid, seriously.

[KingDan97]

dyeowart wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Strawman.  Did I say that I think the FTC will pursue it?  It's obviously not going to go anywhere, but it's hardly an extreme action.

So you're advocating being loudly vidictive to no real ends?

How is that better?

Vindictive...  are you serious?  Do you really think whoever filed that is actually aiming to damage EA/bioware in any way (hint, even if the FTC took it seriously and decided it was false advertising, it'd be a minor fine at worst)?

If anything I'd chalk it up to naivity - actually thinking false advertising is enforcable is funny in a way.

YES YES THEY WERE. Immediately after doing it he came here and bragged about it, he addressed it to Bioware, regardless of whether there's a chance of it hurting them or not you do not take a swing at someone three times your size.

Then yeah, they're an idiot.  I think the largest US false advertising fine on record is about $1m, which is still pocket change in a title like this [and a 'real' fine would be much smaller if proven, which it wouldn't be].

Edit: I suppose if you count drug companies it gets orders of magnitude higher, but that's not even the same legislation.

That's my point. He's being referred to as "the FTC guy" because it's a known quantity, it's not like we can just say "the guy who made that post".

I don't personally care that he filed the complaint, I care that he came here and made a spectacle of himself, which got back to news sources and made the movement look worse.

[KingDan97]

dyeowart wrote...

RomanDark wrote...

 Who knows, this could have been an extremely ballsy move by Bioware, posing as a fan, contacting the FTC in order to get Retake seen as being ridiculous by the media and all those who are yet undecided or against us. But I doubt it, just a thought.

Very few companies ever try stuff like this - if you get caught it looks... kind of bad.  Not worth it.

And there's a very large chance that EA would incur a serious fine as a corporation wasting government resources investigating itself.

[El_Spiko]

The more coverage there is of the ending controversy in the media, the more pressure it puts on EA and it hinders their ability to use PR tactics to stop peoples' momentum and get the story out of the news cycle. I counted on the fact that many wouldn't bother to read my post or know that an FTC complaint means next to nothing . . . unless of course people over react and turn that complaint into a media story, which is what happened. I'm not a representative of the Retake movement, so I knew that people who were going to have a negative reaction (usually from having no idea what the FTC is) would direct their hate toward me, not the movement (which made it clear they don't endorse or back my actions). So I used the haters that were already out there dismissing the Retake movement to turn a normally useless action into an effective PR move. My actions are clearly polarizing, which keeps the story continually on the first page of search results. Bioware knows that my complaint itself means nothing, but the fact that it turned into media story is terrible for their damage control. So now you all know why I did this and why i made a thread on here explaining what I had done. And to be clear, I do feel that based on Biowares statements they did falsely advertise the game. I respect the fact that there are people who don't agree with my actions, and if that's the case I encourage you to not file your own complaint; but the genie is out of the bottle now, so if you truly think that my actions hurt the cause then I suggest you stop posting about it so the story dies sooner.

[Lankist]

KingDan97 wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

RomanDark wrote...

 Who knows, this could have been an extremely ballsy move by Bioware, posing as a fan, contacting the FTC in order to get Retake seen as being ridiculous by the media and all those who are yet undecided or against us. But I doubt it, just a thought.

Very few companies ever try stuff like this - if you get caught it looks... kind of bad.  Not worth it.

And there's a very large chance that EA would incur a serious fine as a corporation wasting government resources investigating itself.

For reference, there have been a number of companies that have attempted to subvert consumer uproar through hired proxies, and it did not end very well. Most of those companies were not tech-industry companies, and they did not understand that the internet has a way of figuring those things out.

A company like EA, with such a heavy presence on the internet, would not make that sort of mistake.

Modifié par Lankist, 19 mars 2012 - 01:12 .