284 réponses à ce sujet

[Scoob]

suusuuu wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

The FTC is a legit consumer tool that he used and anyone can use to file any complaint. Just like the Better Business Bureau. This just shows how much these so called "Gaming Journalist" really know... which is not a lot. SMH

[Spectre 117]

If gamers were to filed complaints with the FTC whenever a developer broke promises, Fable and Lionhead wouldn't exist x)!

Modifié par Spectre 117, 18 mars 2012 - 10:36 .

[Linus108]

Spectre 117 wrote...

Grasich wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

A consumer made an FTC complaint, and the FTC will decide if it's valid or not.
Whatever comes of it, it has little to do with the rest of us.

While this is true, the opponents of the Retake movement will use this as ammo to make us look bad. They'll say "Hey look at these people, they're absolutely crazy trolls!" and of course anyone who isn't really paying attention to the movement will likely believe them.

This kind of behavior is unacceptable, and makes the rest of us look bad by association.

Exactly my point! Heck gamepur.com stated that it was a movement rather than one man's actions. "
Mass Effect 3 fans are taking their fight against Bioware and EA on the issue of game's ending to EXTREME level. Gamers are now filing FTC complaints against EA and Bioware for "FALSE ADVERTISING" after the ending of Mass Effect 3."

So you're saying people should curve their behavior/rights because a corrupt journalism/news environment will use it to slander you?

Anyone else see how ****ed up this all is?

[SandTrout]

1) This has already been covered ad-nauseum.

2) It is a valid and civil means of reporting unethical behavior of comanies.

3) It is just 1 person that is filing a complaint, which is NOT A LAWSUIT, to a government entity which will most likely ignore it

4) The only people trying to use this to make us look bad already tried to use the bloody charity drive to make us look bad, so they have 0 credibility anyways.

[Tovanus]

The only thing that matters is the numbers and passion of the dissatisfied fans. Unless a single fan does something criminal, there's really no reason to even pay attention to a story about something said or done by a single fan. There's no reason to provide site hits to the idiotic game sites that cover it. People have done FTC complaints for all sorts of ridiculous things in all sorts of media, including other games. It's never been newsworthy before (or has been so rarely that I've never seen it covered myself). Why is it newsworthy this time? Answer: It's not.

Modifié par Tovanus, 18 mars 2012 - 10:37 .

[nevar00]

I don't understand why some of you are getting so upset about this. The FTC is used to, and I quote:

prevent business practices that are anticompetitive or deceptive or unfair to consumers

It doesn't automatically file a lawsuit or something. And honestly, we were LIED TO.

Remember those 16 different endings?
Remember how the Rachni would have a major impact, for better or worse, on the ending?
Remember how the ending wasn't supposed to be picked from A, B, or C?

And that's just the first three I thought of. Now I doubt this will go anywhere: most were mentioned in interviews so I don't think it counts as advertising and if it does you could pretty easily worm your way around these with explanations (the Rachni ARE important to the end: you get 50 points! woohoo!) but I see nothing wrong with what he did.

[Linus108]

Spectre 117 wrote...

If gamers were to filed complaints with the FTC whenever a developer broke promises, Fable and Lionhead wouldn't exist x)!

Maybe they should. Then they wouldn't keep getting ****ed over by these game companies, that keep doing it over and over. It's called being a responsible consumer.

If you allow them to keep doing it, why would they change. Why do you have the right to complain anymore if you didn't do anything about it...

Modifié par Linus108, 18 mars 2012 - 10:37 .

[Sundance31us]

"As it has in the past, the Commission will evaluate the entire advertisement, transaction, or course of dealing in determining how reasonable consumers are likely to respond. Thus, in advertising the Commission will examine 'the entire mosaic, rather than each tile separately'."  http://www.ftc.gov/b...t/ad-decept.htm

In other words they'll be looking at us too, but it's ok...it should take them years to find "reasonable customers".

:innocent:

[wesr]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

The FTC is a legit consumer tool that he used and anyone can use to file any complaint. Just like the Better Business Bureau. This just shows how much these so called "Gaming Journalist" really know... which is not a lot. SMH

Yeah, I don't understand why we are looking down on this again.

Thoese entities are there for a reason.

Because people have become mindless corporation worshipping sheep who no longer care that they have a right to complain about bad products and use the tools given to use to do so.

[Optimus J]

Spectre 117 wrote...

 Seriously as if we didn't needed more backlash and hatred from the gaming community, someone has filed a complaint with the FTC due to ME3's ending. While I have been very vocal with my discontent of the game's ending, I have to say that is going a little overboard.

For days, I been trying to clean our group's image back in Gameinformer but now this is has put the nail in our coffin. Even I have to admit that going with the FTC is overreacting. Here check the link and see for youself how everyone is bashing everyone because of one person's actions. 

http://www.gameinfor...to-the-ftc.aspx 

Seriously, hold the line but don't go that far !

Why the hell would anyone try to "clean our image" in a source that depict us as dirty?
There are PLENTY of sources sided with our movements, I care a BIT about those bad press depict us, when we have Forbes on our side, or competent people as Tara Swadley writing our history.

The guy is entitled to file that, it's NOT RIDICULOUS, and you should be more informed before trolling and trying do "divide and conquest".

Guys, just DON'T FEED THE TROLL. Divide and conquest tactics.

[Kadi]

i dont think it would go far anyway, im sure there is some documentation stating it is their game, and they hold all rights etc etc, and that do not mention any false promises being made, if their were (not been online alot to see)

[Lancane]

Eterna5 wrote...

WhiteVV1ings wrote...

Yep, his FTC effort won't go through. I wouldn't worry about it tainting our movement to seriously.

Your movement is already beyond tainted, I don't see the problem. 

I beg to differ, the movement is stronger now with the recent bad consumer reviews, literary reviews, article in Forbes (the most respected business magazines in the country), not to mention the air time on CNN and Fox. This brought more attention to the forefront of the movement, even if we disagree with his methods there is a bottom line here, because it's not easy to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, you have to have valid proof that they made false promises or advertisements in regards to the product in question. If he found enough articles to prove his point then the FTC will file the complaint, if that happens expect more people to file with them and the Better Business Bureau, it could possibly open up a path to put more heat on Electronic Arts and Bioware. Personally I would have waited a little longer, but this is a free country. 

[Athro]

The thing that a lot people seem to be overlooking is that the gaming industry has had it easy in the arena of consumer challenges. We, as a consumer base, tend to put up with a lot of poor business practice from gaming corps.

So it's probably good to have such a challenge raised, if only to remind those in the industry that they need to stop assuming that they can continue with bad business practice on the assumption that gamers will just put up with it.

Personally, I don't think there is a strong enough case to say Bioware falsely advertised their product. I think they delivered what they said they would in a very technical sense, but failed to deliver on the spirit of what was promised. That is to say that they did the bare minimum to meet their obligation rather than genuinely provided what was promised.

But the guy was well within his rights to raise the complaint, and I do think that it needs to go through that challenge process - not just for Bioware but to send a clear message to all game developers that they need to make sure that they are following good business practices.

[ed87]

Sigh, Theres always one

[Timpossible21]

Heaven.
Why is it so hard for some people to stay f***ing reasonable?
Don't hate an awesome game, because you don't like ending. Sty reasonable and sain and try to convince bioware so give us what is good for the fans and the game. And don't hate bioware, because they tried something different. They failed. And? Wheres the problem?
"Try and fail. Try again, fail better."

This think is important and we shall hold the line, but don't blow this thing to much out of proportion. It won't help our cause.

[NReed106]

agreed, guy is an imbecile who has no idea how to protest correctly. :dry:

[Athro]

Lancane wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

WhiteVV1ings wrote...

Yep, his FTC effort won't go through. I wouldn't worry about it tainting our movement to seriously.

Your movement is already beyond tainted, I don't see the problem. 

I beg to differ, the movement is stronger now with the recent bad consumer reviews, literary reviews, article in Forbes (the most respected business magazines in the country), not to mention the air time on CNN and Fox. This brought more attention to the forefront of the movement, even if we disagree with his methods there is a bottom line here, because it's not easy to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, you have to have valid proof that they made false promises or advertisements in regards to the product in question. If he found enough articles to prove his point then the FTC will file the complaint, if that happens expect more people to file with them and the Better Business Bureau, it could possibly open up a path to put more heat on Electronic Arts and Bioware. Personally I would have waited a little longer, but this is a free country. 

Hell - people I know who don't even game have mentioned that they have read about it.

I mentioned I was playing ME3 and a friend of mine was like "oh. Isn't that the game with the really bad ending? I read about that in the newspaper."

So it's certainly not a small issue... it is becoming proper consumer/business news.

[Linus108]

I feel like people don't really understand the arguments being made here, or don't even know what they themselves are arguing:

Are you arguing that BioWare as a company promised you something in their product, and didn't deliver? If so...why is this guy an imbecile for using the proper channels as a consumer to file his complaint.

Or are some you making the argument that you just didn't like the ending, and so you want them to change it to satisfy you.

I thought 99% of the movement was in the first party, that felt like BioWare didn't deliver on their promises, therefore feel they have valid reason to be upset, and have BioWare do what is needed to fix it. I think we need people need to figure out where exactly they stand on this. 

Modifié par Linus108, 18 mars 2012 - 10:46 .

[spartan5127]

It is puzzling me how people are framing filing an FTC complaint as though it is going to result in bioware being forced to shut down. It is a legitimate consumer tool that people can use if they feel it necessary. The feds aren't going to swoop into bioware and take all there computers.

[The Almighty Ali]

Calm down, what's done is done.
It's not the end of us now.
One person is not the entire group.

[Linus108]

spartan5127 wrote...

It is puzzling me how people are framing filing an FTC complaint as though it is going to result in bioware being forced to shut down. It is a legitimate consumer tool that people can use if they feel it necessary. The feds aren't going to swoop into bioware and take all there computers.

This and then some. It's a tool to help consumers get changs done, if they feel they were wronged. This doesn't = to BioWare getting sued, or being shut down.

Further, what if BioWare decides to say **** you to everyone, because EA as a company decides they have already made enough money to no care what fans have to say. Then going through the FTC is a way to legally get them to reconsider, as the argument being made is that they backed out on promises which influenced people to buying the product. 

Modifié par Linus108, 18 mars 2012 - 10:49 .

[Dragoonlordz]

BrotherFluffy wrote...

Yeah, this is spreading around certain sites, like Game Informer and Kotaku, but notice the media giants like CNN and Forbes are sitting on this one. Not even FOX News is commenting on it. Why? Because it's only ONE GUY. It's not representative of the whole movement, and anyone who does their research will see that. These other sites that are siding with BioWare are simply trying to discredit the movement. And seriously, in the long run, which news organizations do you think BioWare's investors read/watch more-Forbes or Kotaku?

I think you'll find it's Kotaku more than Forbes.

[joopark]

@Spectre 117

Funny, it seems like your just kind of filtering out what Linus108 and someone else been repeating about what this guy did is perfectly within his rights as a consumer. Filing a complaint to the FTC or BB is a legit consumer tool as mentioned previously.

Are you serious? Did you happen to stop and think for a second about why this dude did this besides something along the lines of "Oh man, this guy is taking this overboard! WOW". Try to look at both ends of a spectrum before you make a opinion.

[Athro]

Linus108 wrote...

I feel like people don't really understand the arguments being made here, or don't even know what they themselves are arguing:

Are you arguing that BioWare as a company promised you something in their product, and didn't deliver? If so...why is this guy an imbecile for using the proper channels as a consumer to file his complaint.

Or are some you making the argument that you just didn't like the ending, and so you want them to change it to satisfy you.

I thought 99% of the movement was in the first party, that felt like BioWare didn't deliver on their promises, therefore feel they have valid reason to be upset, and have BioWare do what is needed to fix it. I think we need people need to figure out where exactly they stand on this. 

From what I can see is that it's a bit of column a and a bit of column b.

The problem with ME3's ending is that it makes so many mistakes in so many areas, that the reasons for people being dissatisfied with any of the options are multiple and varied. The only thing that really links all these people is that they are all unhappy with how the game ended.

Some are unhappy because it didn't deliver the multiple and varied endings promised.
Some are unhappy because they didn't get a happy ending.
Some are unhappy because the ending provided is full of plot holes.
Some are unhappy because the ending lacked any closure.
Some are unhappy because of all of the above.

I'm sure there are other reasons too.

So for some of these people, I imagine it's a case of "if we take legal action, then Bioware will turtle up and go on the defensive."

I'm all for more ME3. I want to see something done about the ending. I don't want to dictate to Bioware precisely what because I want to be surprised. (Hopefully pleasantly.) But I feel that if Bioware wants to be seen as a professional company, then they will allow this complaint to follow through it's process and keep it separate from their dealings with the feedback.

[SaladinDheonqar]

Bioware lies about their product, and a customer files a complaint. Why the uproar? It makes us look bad? Let's be honest, those using this to attack us would've found other ways if not this. They're already in Bioware/EA's back pocket. I actually admire the guy for thinking for himself and taking action. It's not like he filed the complaint in the movement's name or anything. Just calm down people.