284 réponses à ce sujet

[EsterCloat]

Guys, this is what the gaming media wants. To characterize this guy as a loon and thus not worthy of being taken seriously and we're falling right into it by trying to distance ourselves from his actions. He is not crazy, he is not unreasonable, he filed a complaint. That's it. Though we may not personally take that action he's well within his right to do it.

[MzAdventure]

ThePrestige10 wrote...

pharsti wrote...

Seriously, this again, stop making the guy look like a madman, he bought a product, hes unhappy with it, its his right to file a complaint.

You dont agree, dont file one, but just look at what he did, there is logic there, which is more than can be said with the ending btw >_>

This.

This... and pharsti props for simple and direct (I was too ticked to do either!)

[Linus108]

Rain Bringer6 wrote...

You know, that guy could have been claiming he made a FTC complaint, when in reality it wasn't something he did, or they cared to accept. This is terrible journalism on GameInformer's part. There's no source other than this forum. I wouldn't say that's rock solid.

The quickness with which they reported this, and use it to make the fans look bad - just goes to prove it's biased/corrupt journalism. Nothing more, nothing less.

I still think even if the guy did file a complaint, he was well within his rights. And honestly, the way fans are reacting towards him is really sad. Means consumers don't think they have a right to stand up for themselves when they believe they bought a product that didn't live up to what was advertised.

Yeah, I get that some view this as "just a videogame". So why should anyone get so upset as to file an FTC complaint. But it's still a product. And if he feels they advertised something, and didn't give him what was advertised, he's just doing what he has a right to do.

This is no different than Apple saying the iPad will have x feature. Then it comes out and doesn't have said feature. Anyone that bougth the iPad expecting that feature has every right to demand them to patch it so it has said feature.

[Pobatti]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

What's frustrating is that it only takes 1 person to act completely overboard to paint RetakeME3 in bad light, yet again. If anything illustrates the importance of remaining civil, it's this. Do not forget that your voice will count more when you act with manners and grace.

And this is why I keep trying to get you to just ignore this matter 

Don't forget, it's not just BSN members, or even Mass Effect 3 owners that can view this forum. While I doubt that anything serious can really come from anyone picking a single post for the basis of a news article, continually going on and on about this is the totally wrong thing to do:

• Any random crazy fool could get ideas based on the 'only takes 1 person' concept - a person who really wants to troll that petition, probably isn't a fan of Mass Effect and has nothing better to do.
• The more we point the differences out between the RTME movement and this guy, the more it looks as though what the RTME is projecting is a 'calculated image', based around a fanbase who will push out good vibes and try to sweep all the bad stuff under the rug. Everyone knows there are bad eggs in any society.

There's no point in us trying to look whiter than white - we aren't. The RTME petition transcends us - it's a charity. The money is going to a childrens charity. Neither us or Bioware profit in any way. Ergo.. no easy way to link that movement with any individual fan's actions without it being obvious that the journalist is trying really hard - really clutching at straws - to paint the RTME movement in a bad light. Some will just disagree - but the flat out lies and half truths are apparent to the vast majority and these only serve to harm their own credibility.

[kunzite]

Linus108 wrote...

I actually think the reaction fans have towards this guy, shows a larger problem with the game industry. People (consumers) are willing to accept anything from these game companies. Regardless if they back out on promises or what they advertised, they (consumers) just take it. And they keep buying products without standing up for themselves.

Then they wonder why these companies keep lying again and again. When the consumer is no longer responsible, the companies will keep walking over them.

You guys do know that YOU pay them. They only exist because you fund them. You aren't mindless drones that have to accept bad business. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt this the very reason we're holding the line? Because we dont want to be that kind of customer anymore? That we want the company to give us what they were telling us we were buying? To prevent being lied to and walked over again?

[benj919]

EA/Bioware are calculating the bottom line for their options (ignore/dlc/change endings) anyway, so where exactly is the problem if someone tries to push that bottom line towards a favourable outcome? If the complaint is valid, it will be heard at EA/BW HQ's, if not its going to be ignored.I don't know the US courts/laws well enough but unless he can sue those companies for millions and we won't get any better endings I don't see a problem with his actions. (I assume the options for a valid claim are either to reimburse the customers or to deliver a patch fulfilling their promises)

[joopark]

Linus108 wrote...

pharsti wrote...

Seriously, this again, stop making the guy look like a madman, he bought a product, hes unhappy with it, its his right to file a complaint.

You dont agree, dont file one, but just look at what he did, there is logic there, which is more than can be said with the ending btw >_>

I actually think the reaction fans have towards this guy, shows a larger problem with the game industry. People (consumers) are willing to accept anything from these game companies. Regardless if they back out on promises or what they advertised, they (consumers) just take it. And they keep buying products without standing up for themselves.

Then they wonder why these companies keep lying again and again. When the consumer is no longer responsible, the companies will keep walking over them.

You guys do know that YOU pay them. They only exist because you fund them. You aren't mindless drones that have to accept bad business. 

Unfortunately you are correct. People take a lot of things laying down. Companies will abuse them and they woudn't even notice/care. I hope BioWare is actively working out a solution. If not, I'll just take my wallet somewhere else because I have a RIGHT as a consumer to do so! 

[General User]

EsterCloat wrote...

Guys, this is what the gaming media wants. To characterize this guy as a loon and thus not worthy of being taken seriously and we're falling right into it by trying to distance ourselves from his actions. He is not crazy, he is not unreasonable, he filed a complaint. That's it. Though we may not personally take that action he's well within his right to do it.

He's using a Federal system meant to protect consumers from real fraud to complain about a game he didn't like.  Calling him crazy and not taking him seriously would be doing him (and every else in the Retake movement) a kindness.

Modifié par General User, 18 mars 2012 - 11:19 .

[nitefyre410]

I'm going to say this again.. The FTC is a legit consumer tool used to file complaints by consumers(that would us BTW) when they feel a company(Biowere/EA) is in engaging an unfair or deceptive business practice. This is not some loon asking for a law suit.. he is using a tool for consumers that is put their with his tax dollars(another thing Game Informer seemed to miss). How they are spinning this is in their favor and I'm will to bet that is EA doing that is getting spun that way. Either way this gentlemen that filed that complaint is well with his rights do so. It just like the Better Business Bureau... please lets stop defending EA/Bioware they are our friends or people its business... nothing more. Being so it subject the same criticism as any other business.

[darkiddd]

this guy didn't hold the line.

He just broke it and charged madly at the enemy.

LEEEROOOOOYYYY JEEEEEEEEENKINS! 

Modifié par darkiddd, 18 mars 2012 - 11:20 .

[CavScout]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

The FTC is a legit consumer tool that he used and anyone can use to file any complaint. Just like the Better Business Bureau. This just shows how much these so called "Gaming Journalist" really know... which is not a lot. SMH

Yeah, I don't understand why we are looking down on this again.

Thoese entities are there for a reason.

They're not there to force game companies to remake endings you didn't like.... I wonder if any of the "Han shot first!" crowd has followed suit!

Modifié par CavScout, 18 mars 2012 - 11:21 .

[joopark]

kunzite wrote...

Linus108 wrote...

I actually think the reaction fans have towards this guy, shows a larger problem with the game industry. People (consumers) are willing to accept anything from these game companies. Regardless if they back out on promises or what they advertised, they (consumers) just take it. And they keep buying products without standing up for themselves.

Then they wonder why these companies keep lying again and again. When the consumer is no longer responsible, the companies will keep walking over them.

You guys do know that YOU pay them. They only exist because you fund them. You aren't mindless drones that have to accept bad business. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt this the very reason we're holding the line? Because we dont want to be that kind of customer anymore? That we want the company to give us what they were telling us we were buying? To prevent being lied to and walked over again?

That is what it really boils down to. 

[Linus108]

kunzite wrote...

Linus108 wrote...

I actually think the reaction fans have towards this guy, shows a larger problem with the game industry. People (consumers) are willing to accept anything from these game companies. Regardless if they back out on promises or what they advertised, they (consumers) just take it. And they keep buying products without standing up for themselves.

Then they wonder why these companies keep lying again and again. When the consumer is no longer responsible, the companies will keep walking over them.

You guys do know that YOU pay them. They only exist because you fund them. You aren't mindless drones that have to accept bad business. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt this the very reason we're holding the line? Because we dont want to be that kind of customer anymore? That we want the company to give us what they were telling us we were buying? To prevent being lied to and walked over again?

It is, and I'm encouraged to see this happen. But I'm just pointing out, people that are saying this guy is crazy or disgusting just shows how out of touch consumers are with having any rights or say when it comes to the products they buy. 

That it's looked down upon, for someone to complain that the product they purchased didn't live up to what was advertised, is ridiculous. And prior to this re-take movement, fans often did just take things lying down.

But even the movement aside, I still think people believe BioWare shouldn't have to answer to fans for failing to deliver. People that are just protesting because they would like them to kindly change it. Because they are fans, and really love them, and want something better. While there is nothing wrong with that stance, there is also nothing wrong with saying no: they promised me something, and didn't deliver. And damnit, I'm going to demand they give me what I paid for. 

Hence why I see nothing wrong with his FTC filing.  

Modifié par Linus108, 18 mars 2012 - 11:27 .

[joopark]

CavScout wrote...
They're not there to force game companies to remake endings you didn't like.... I wonder if any of the "Han shot first!" crowd has followed suit!

Guess you totally missed the whole pre-release statments huh? 

[BobbyTheI]

General User wrote...
He's using a Federal system meant to protect consumers from real fraud to complain about a game he didn't like.  Calling him crazy and not taking him seriously would be doing him (and every else in the Retake movement) a kindness.

Yes, exactly.  Seriously, I'm hoping for a new ending as much as you folks, but stuff like this is counter-productive and makes us look foolish.

People saying that this is a valid complaint have no idea what they're talking about.  If Mass Effect 3 didn't start up at all, or caused damage to your system when you used it, that would be a valid reason to file an FTC complaint.  But if the director of a movie calls his film an "action thrill-ride that will blow you away," and you find it a dull, cliche-ridden mess, you don't file a complaint with the government about it.

Seriously, I know we're all upset, but the sooner we distance ourselves from this silliness, the better.

[General User]

nitefyre410 wrote...

I'm going to say this again.. The FTC is a legit consumer tool used to file complaints by consumers(that would us BTW) when they feel a company(Biowere/EA) is in engaging an unfair or deceptive business practice. This is not some loon asking for a law suit.. he is using a tool for consumers that is put their with his tax dollars(another thing Game Informer seemed to miss). How they are spinning this is in their favor and I'm will to bet that is EA doing that is getting spun that way. Either way this gentlemen that filed that complaint is well with his rights do so. It just like the Better Business Bureau... please lets stop defending EA/Bioware they are our friends or people its business... nothing more. Being so it subject the same criticism as any other business.

Wrong.  The BBB is a private organization that exists specifically to resolve and mediate disputes of this nature.  The FTC is a federal agency meant to handle actual malfeasance.  Bringing one's concerns to the BBB might  be appropriate in this case, filing a complaint with the FTC is most certainly over the line.

Modifié par General User, 18 mars 2012 - 11:26 .

[Squadrito]

I was legit about to go file a complaint as well.
Then I saw the fill out form and was like "F*** that noise"

[Delpinolikespotatoes]

Linus108 wrote...

People care way too much about this guy. Who cares what he did. To say that ONE guy = an entire fan base is ridiculous. Truth is, the Mainstream Media (who is in the pocket of BioWare) was going to slander us regardless.

Kind of ironic that BioWare continues to support them, and then turn around and try to tell the fans they respect us, and think our concerns are valid. Love it.

Anyways, people are overreacting to what this guy did. If the guy (as a consumer) truly feels he was promised something, and they advertised a feature, and didn't deliver it, filing an FTC complaint is legally how a consumer would go about doing it.

Why people are saying this is a deadly sin or going too far is ridiculous. If you wouldn't do it, then you wouldn't. That's cool.

This message is the one.

Most of the people who are blaming us because of the FTC would have found any other excuse to do it. They have been opposed to us since we started and there is no way that's gonna change. In videogaming news it's really strange to find true articles. There are just oppinion articles.

[CavScout]

joopark wrote...

CavScout wrote...
They're not there to force game companies to remake endings you didn't like.... I wonder if any of the "Han shot first!" crowd has followed suit!

Guess you totally missed the whole pre-release statments huh? 

Not meeting your expectations =/= Lies

[Dragoonlordz]

I wonder if you lot realise some of the scenarios and implications of this sort of thing might have, the developers will probably cut back on taking part on these forums in case anything they say may be used against them in an official complaint. All those juicy and lovely snippets of information people keep asking for including twitter feed update threads will probably mostly dry up because of how extreme you take their words going by this sort of action. They (imho) will not be more careful in that they say but in reality say less because fear people will take what they say hope to do and would like to do being turned into filings if they don't do every single thing they said would like to or hoped to have done. You'll prob and up with just the occasional press release like Squeenix gives out from time to time. Granted that is one of worst case scenarios but not rules out completely if this sort of thing keeps happening.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 mars 2012 - 11:30 .

[MzAdventure]

General User wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

I'm going to say this again.. The FTC is a legit consumer tool used to file complaints by consumers(that would us BTW) when they feel a company(Biowere/EA) is in engaging an unfair or deceptive business practice. This is not some loon asking for a law suit.. he is using a tool for consumers that is put their with his tax dollars(another thing Game Informer seemed to miss). How they are spinning this is in their favor and I'm will to bet that is EA doing that is getting spun that way. Either way this gentlemen that filed that complaint is well with his rights do so. It just like the Better Business Bureau... please lets stop defending EA/Bioware they are our friends or people its business... nothing more. Being so it subject the same criticism as any other business.

Wrong.  The BBB is a private organization that exists specifically to resolve and mediate disputes of this nature.  The FTC is a federal agency meant to handle actual malfeasance.  Bringing one's concerns to the BBB might be appropriate in this case, filing a complaint with the FTC is most certainly over the line.

Sorry, but you are incorrect in your characterization of the mission of the FTC.  Check their website.

[General User]

victoriakm wrote...

General User wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

I'm going to say this again.. The FTC is a legit consumer tool used to file complaints by consumers(that would us BTW) when they feel a company(Biowere/EA) is in engaging an unfair or deceptive business practice. This is not some loon asking for a law suit.. he is using a tool for consumers that is put their with his tax dollars(another thing Game Informer seemed to miss). How they are spinning this is in their favor and I'm will to bet that is EA doing that is getting spun that way. Either way this gentlemen that filed that complaint is well with his rights do so. It just like the Better Business Bureau... please lets stop defending EA/Bioware they are our friends or people its business... nothing more. Being so it subject the same criticism as any other business.

Wrong.  The BBB is a private organization that exists specifically to resolve and mediate disputes of this nature.  The FTC is a federal agency meant to handle actual malfeasance.  Bringing one's concerns to the BBB might be appropriate in this case, filing a complaint with the FTC is most certainly over the line.

Sorry, but you are incorrect in your characterization of the mission of the FTC.  Check their website.

I'm right.

Modifié par General User, 18 mars 2012 - 11:30 .

[Riktus227]

Errr... people need to wake up and smell the coffee...

The pre-launch promises have been posted everywhere, tons of time, remember the one where we got promised many endings depending on our choices and no A, B, C ending ?

Well i got an A, B, C ending. That's not what i paid for, not what was promised to me, and definitely NOT what was promised to this guy.

So at the end of the day, that was false advertisement, and he is well in his right, as is everybody, to make a complaint about it.

I didn't cause i can't be arsed to, but saying that it's going too far... AH. You never go far enough if you really want to get what you want. Keep in mind, that unless you actually hurt them in the wallet, they won't do anything.

[MzAdventure]

BobbyTheI wrote...

General User wrote...
He's using a Federal system meant to protect consumers from real fraud to complain about a game he didn't like.  Calling him crazy and not taking him seriously would be doing him (and every else in the Retake movement) a kindness.

Yes, exactly.  Seriously, I'm hoping for a new ending as much as you folks, but stuff like this is counter-productive and makes us look foolish.

People saying that this is a valid complaint have no idea what they're talking about.  If Mass Effect 3 didn't start up at all, or caused damage to your system when you used it, that would be a valid reason to file an FTC complaint.  But if the director of a movie calls his film an "action thrill-ride that will blow you away," and you find it a dull, cliche-ridden mess, you don't file a complaint with the government about it.

Seriously, I know we're all upset, but the sooner we distance ourselves from this silliness, the better.

Except that you are dismissing this man much in the same way others are dismissing the entire RETAKE idea, without attempting to properly understand the issue.

It isn't silliness to seek recourse if you feel that your rights as consumer have been violated.

You may disagree with him (as I do) but please, don't just toss him to the side as silly.

[MzAdventure]

General User wrote...

victoriakm wrote...

General User wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

I'm going to say this again.. The FTC is a legit consumer tool used to file complaints by consumers(that would us BTW) when they feel a company(Biowere/EA) is in engaging an unfair or deceptive business practice. This is not some loon asking for a law suit.. he is using a tool for consumers that is put their with his tax dollars(another thing Game Informer seemed to miss). How they are spinning this is in their favor and I'm will to bet that is EA doing that is getting spun that way. Either way this gentlemen that filed that complaint is well with his rights do so. It just like the Better Business Bureau... please lets stop defending EA/Bioware they are our friends or people its business... nothing more. Being so it subject the same criticism as any other business.

Wrong.  The BBB is a private organization that exists specifically to resolve and mediate disputes of this nature.  The FTC is a federal agency meant to handle actual malfeasance.  Bringing one's concerns to the BBB might be appropriate in this case, filing a complaint with the FTC is most certainly over the line.

Sorry, but you are incorrect in your characterization of the mission of the FTC.  Check their website.

I'm right.

" Our Mission
To prevent business practices that are anticompetitive or deceptive or unfair to consumers; to enhance informed consumer choice and public understanding of the competitive process; and to accomplish this without unduly burdening legitimate business activity.
History of the FTC
When the FTC was created in 1914, its purpose was to prevent unfair methods of competition in commerce as part of the battle to “bust the trusts.” Over the years, Congress passed additional laws giving the agency greater authority to police anticompetitive practices. In 1938, Congress passed a broad prohibition against “unfair and deceptive acts or practices.” Since then, the Commission also has been directed to administer a wide variety of other consumer protection laws, including the Telemarketing Sales Rule, the Pay-Per-Call Rule and the Equal Credit Opportunity Act. In 1975, Congress gave the FTC the authority to adopt industry-wide trade regulation rules."