284 réponses à ce sujet

[Sevorast]

General User wrote
A luxury entertainment product that fails to live up to the expectations regarding the plot (ie not the functionality of the actual product) that someone built in their own mind based on advertising or (even worse) a handful of developer statements is hardly a violation of a consumer's rights.
And filing a complaint like this with a federal agency is not "seeking recourse."  It is a childish and utterly irresponsible abuse of the system.

Here http://www.oxm.co.uk...-sophisticated/

 We are told :  "This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C" 

Then we recieve this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPelM2hwhJA 

So if I or any other consumer made their decision to purchase based on the article featured above, we clearly made our decision based on false information given by the people trying to sell us the product.  That falls squarely into the realm of the FTC as far as I am concerned. 

That being said, I have faith that Bioware intends to fix this, and because of that faith I believe that going to the FTC would be a waste of time for everybody involved. However I do not believe this person needs to be attacked because he does not share the viewpoint of  myself or the majority.

Modifié par Sevorast, 19 mars 2012 - 12:04 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

What this does is provide the other side ammunition to paint the movement in a poor light. Our job now is to maintain the respectable image we have thus far and denounce this as a separate individual who, despite exercising his rights, went too far in our opinion.

[Spectre 117]

General User wrote...

Painaid wrote...
I don't see the problem with it. The FTC was created for consumer complaints.

Not quite, but close.  The the FTC was created to protect consumers from fraud, abuse, and malfeasance.  To that end they handle and look into consumer complaints. 

Painaid wrote...
And technically he is right, they did NOT hold up to any of the promises they had told us at all.

That's a matter of opinion.  If he purchased a copy of ME3 that was non-functional or some such, then he'd have a legitimate gripe (if his retailer didn't offer an exchange or refund that is).  Dissatisfaction with the plot of entertainment products is simply not on the same level.

Painaid wrote...
And he has every right to file a grievance if he feels he as lied and cheated to by EA/BioWare.

Agree or disagree, but it's the guy's right to do as he sees fit.

At least as far as I'm concerned, this much is not in dispute.

Well said.

[General User]

wulf3n wrote...

General User wrote...
 the plot of entertainment products is simply not on the same level.

Why not?
does it not affect ones enterainment?

If certain aspects of the plot have been promised but not delivered is that not fraudulent?

No it is not.  Because the nature of the plot and the extent to which "promises" (which off-hand developer comments made at various points during the lengthy development process most certainly are not) have been fullfilled or not are both entirely subjective.  One person could say they have, they next could say they have not and both would be telling the truth.

[wulf3n]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
... maintain the respectable image we have thus far and denounce this as a separate individual who, despite exercising his rights, went too far in our opinion.

How does exercising ones right detract from the respectable image?

[Beldamon]

wulf3n wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
... maintain the respectable image we have thus far and denounce this as a separate individual who, despite exercising his rights, went too far in our opinion.

How does exercising ones right detract from the respectable image?

Yeah...that was my question too.  It's not a lawsuit, and it seems a legiit way to pressure the partent company to take the matter seriously...

[adawg828]

This is ridiculous, why would Bioware want to give us, the crazy people wanting a new ending a new ending when we just filed a complaint to the FTC.

[ek5000]

BioWare is guilty of false advertising, there are numerous examples of this, there is an entire thread about those "broken promises" on these forums.

As a paying customer, the guy has every right to voice his complains, and is going through the proper channels to do so.

If he had bought a carton of milk and found a maggot inside, no one, press included, would call him an idiot for complaining about it.

Game companies just haven't been tested by the consumers yet, they keep getting away with a lot of shady stunts.

[BDelacroix]

It doesn't even make since to do so. Whatever we think of the ending it isn't illegal and it is Bioware's business to do whatever ending they wanted to. We just don't like it.

[Nauks]

What a douche for signing that, string him up by the balls I say.

[Ashilana]

I think he was perfectly within his rights.   Now, the people who attack other players for enjoying multiplayer, they are a scary bunch.

[KingDan97]

wulf3n wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...
... maintain the respectable image we have thus far and denounce this as a separate individual who, despite exercising his rights, went too far in our opinion.

How does exercising ones right detract from the respectable image?

You're a war negotiation with the leader a neighboring country, it doesn't do you any favors for your guards to begin brandishing their weapons as soon as the other leader starts giving way. This one person could possibly spin Bioware from considering us to be concerned fans to those who are entirely impossible to please.

He's basically just put a deadline on this whole movement if Bioware thinks this is a widespread idea because he just claimed that in 30 days it won't matter what they do because he(and if we don't renounce him we) will just get rid of the game.

That's how it detracts from the respectable image.

[General User]

Sevorast wrote...

General User wrote
A luxury entertainment product that fails to live up to the expectations regarding the plot (ie not the functionality of the actual product) that someone built in their own mind based on advertising or (even worse) a handful of developer statements is hardly a violation of a consumer's rights.
And filing a complaint like this with a federal agency is not "seeking recourse."  It is a childish and utterly irresponsible abuse of the system.

Here http://www.oxm.co.uk...-sophisticated/

 We are told :  "This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C" 

Then we recieve this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPelM2hwhJA 

So if I or any other consumer made their decision to purchase based on the article featured above, we clearly made our decision based on false information given by the people trying to sell us the product.  That falls squarely into the realm of the FTC as far as I am concerned. 

That being said, I have faith that Bioware intends to fix this, and because of that faith I believe that going to the FTC would be a waste of time for everybody involved. However I do not believe this person needs to be attacked because he does not share the viewpoint of  myself or the majority.

This person made a point of publicly filing a complaint with a federal agency.  In so doing, his actions and his motivations became fair game for criticism.

[wulf3n]

General User wrote...
No it is not.  Because the nature of the plot and the extent to which "promises" (which off-hand developer comments made at various points during the lengthy development process most certainly are not) have been fullfilled or not are both entirely subjective.  One person could say they have, they next could say they have not and both would be telling the truth.

would be true but ...

the lead director saying the endings will not be just A, B or C, is not an off-hand comment, it is a direct statement about the content of the game.

what we're arguing is not subjective.  wether or not you like the ending is not the argument, the fact that the ending boils down to a trinary choice is the problem.

[ek5000]

BDelacroix wrote...

It doesn't even make since to do so. Whatever we think of the ending it isn't illegal and it is Bioware's business to do whatever ending they wanted to. We just don't like it.

If they say: "This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C"

And then present us with a game in which we get exactly "A, B or C", they should have told us before the release, that everything they've said earlier doesn't actually apply.

[KingDan97]

General User wrote...

This person made a point of publicly filing a complaint with a federal agency.  In so doing, his actions and his motivations became fair game for criticism.

I'd say they became fair for criticism upon bragging about it on these forums.

[General User]

ek5000 wrote...

BioWare is guilty of false advertising, there are numerous examples of this, there is an entire thread about those "broken promises" on these forums.

As a paying customer, the guy has every right to voice his complains, and is going through the proper channels to do so.

If he had bought a carton of milk and found a maggot inside, no one, press included, would call him an idiot for complaining about it.

Game companies just haven't been tested by the consumers yet, they keep getting away with a lot of shady stunts.

He did not buy a carton of milk and he did not find a maggot.  He bought a video game and did not like the plot.

And he is most certainly not going through the proper channels.  He is wasting the time of an agency meant to protect consumers from fraud.

[dotupkid]

 Yea... pretty lame move. 

Remember to hold the line respectfully. We aren't trying to bring Bioware down, only fix what we see as problematic.

Modifié par dotupkid, 19 mars 2012 - 12:25 .

[wulf3n]

KingDan97 wrote...
You're a war negotiation with the leader a neighboring country, it doesn't do you any favors for your guards to begin brandishing their weapons as soon as the other leader starts giving way.

What this person is doing isn't agressive in any way! in fact it's what mature people do to resolve thier issues with big comapny. 

KingDan97 wrote... 
This one person could possibly spin Bioware from considering us to be concerned fans to those who are entirely impossible to please.

 

You think that little of bioware that 1 person filing a complaint with the ftc will change their mind about you, compared to the 1000's of people verbally abusing them via facebook and twitter?

KingDan97 wrote... 
He's basically just put a deadline on this whole movement if Bioware thinks this is a widespread idea because he just claimed that in 30 days it won't matter what they do because he(and if we don't renounce him we) will just get rid of the game.

That's how it detracts from the respectable image.

again you think that little of bioware?

[Sevorast]

General User wrote...

Sevorast wrote...

General User wrote
A luxury entertainment product that fails to live up to the expectations regarding the plot (ie not the functionality of the actual product) that someone built in their own mind based on advertising or (even worse) a handful of developer statements is hardly a violation of a consumer's rights.
And filing a complaint like this with a federal agency is not "seeking recourse."  It is a childish and utterly irresponsible abuse of the system.

Here http://www.oxm.co.uk...-sophisticated/

 We are told :  "This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C" 

Then we recieve this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPelM2hwhJA 

So if I or any other consumer made their decision to purchase based on the article featured above, we clearly made our decision based on false information given by the people trying to sell us the product.  That falls squarely into the realm of the FTC as far as I am concerned. 

That being said, I have faith that Bioware intends to fix this, and because of that faith I believe that going to the FTC would be a waste of time for everybody involved. However I do not believe this person needs to be attacked because he does not share the viewpoint of  myself or the majority.

This person made a point of publicly filing a complaint with a federal agency.  In so doing, his actions and his motivations became fair game for criticism.

Criticism yes, blatant personal attacks no.

Interested in why you only responded to that part of my post, would honestly like to hear your take on the rest.

Also I do not believe he is arguing that the plot is bad and therefor he has been duped or defrauded. I believe he is arguing he purchased a product based on false statments such as the one I posted previously.

[Lankist]

Way to typecast every single person dissatisfied with the ending, FTC Complaint Guy. Really, amazing job with that. It's like you said to yourself "This issue is far to disparate for people to comment on without actually attempting to understand the points of contention. This will not do." Now, thanks to your bravery, every news outlet that was beginning to run out of ways to dismiss the entire ordeal off-hand will no longer need to risk actual examination of the issue. You are a credit to the internet.

[Spectre 117]

What people don't get is that this is matter of opinion. Sure we didn't like the ending we felt that it did not live up to what the entire series stands for, hovewer this is not material to file an FTC complaint. That's like asking for a refund because you didn't like a movie or it's ending.

[wulf3n]

General User wrote...
He did not buy a carton of milk and he did not find a maggot.  He bought a video game and did not like the plot.

 

No, he bought a carton of chocolate milk, that contained regular milk? is that not grounds for a complaint?

[loungeshep]

Every movement has it's radical extremists, even in the gaming world.

[Lankist]

wulf3n wrote...

General User wrote...
He did not buy a carton of milk and he did not find a maggot.  He bought a video game and did not like the plot.

 

No, he bought a carton of chocolate milk, that contained regular milk? is that not grounds for a complaint?

No.

I don't think you understand what the FTC does.

Modifié par Lankist, 19 mars 2012 - 12:23 .