284 réponses à ce sujet

[MidnightTale]

Regardless, we should remain civil, constructive and continue to hold the line.

[wulf3n]

KingDan97 wrote...
The movement as it was actually held pity from those who had completed the game by and large. The only people who actively opposed the idea were the press and those who didn't like the ending of a TV show. Now even those who've completed the game will believe that we're either going to get our ending or see Bioware destroyed for not.

being one of those who "held pity" I don't "
believe that we're either going to get our ending or see Bioware destroyed for not" what I see instead are a group of people so afraid of upsetting people that didn't even agree with them in the first place that they're willing to try and deny someone thier rights.

[goose2989]

The majority of us don't agree with his actions

[DemGeth]

goose2989 wrote...

The majority of us don't agree with his actions

Nah it's more of a 50/50 split.  

[KingDan97]

wulf3n wrote...

General User wrote...

wulf3n wrote...
the lead director saying the endings will not be just A, B or C, is not an off-hand comment, it is a direct statement about the content of the game.

And technically the endings aren't restricted to A, B, or C.  Not only that , but since so much of the ending is simply left
unexplained, one could argue that there are as many endings as their are
player.  If the distinctions between the three primary catagories are not distinct enough for someone's taste then that is grounds for no longer purchasing EA/Bioware products or possibly a BBB complaint, not the FTC.

wulf3n wrote...
what we're arguing is not subjective.  wether or not you like the ending is not the argument, the fact that the ending boils down to a trinary choice is the problem.

On the contray the dgree to wich ME3 fulfilled expectaions is entirely subjective.

Are we playing the same game?

was the ending not a result of a trinary choice?

were we not told by the Lead Director that the ending would not be a result of a trinary choice?

There is very arguably 16 different endings dependant on your actions throughout the game or series, what percentage of each of those is unique is not a technicality the FTC will bother to look into because it's as simple as Bioware shifting the defining point to add more and more endings dependant on various criteria. Define it between Eath and the Cerberus Base? Easily could be considered over 40 endings because each different permeutation is a new ending. The arguement is easily made that there's more than 3 endings, or even that things change over development.

The argument is impossible to make however that this was not going too far in regards to a company that is very clearly showing it's reveptive to our issues.

[dyeowart]

goose2989 wrote...

The majority of us don't agree with his actions

The majority of people don't seem to be aware of the role of the FTC and think a false advertising report is an "extreme" action.

[Jadebaby]

WhiteVV1ings wrote...

Yep, his FTC effort won't go through. I wouldn't worry about it tainting our movement to seriously.

[Lankist]

dyeowart wrote...

goose2989 wrote...

The majority of us don't agree with his actions

The majority of people don't seem to be aware of the role of the FTC and think a false advertising report is an "extreme" action.

If you think the FTC is going to consider this to be false advertising, perhaps you should tune in to QVC sometime to see just how flexible truth-in-advertising laws are.

If the Shamwow folks are still in business, do you seriously think the FTC is going to care about these sorts of semantics?

Modifié par Lankist, 19 mars 2012 - 12:41 .

[KingDan97]

xeNNN wrote...

to be honest its not as much of a big deal as some people or some media people think.... yeah it was over the top but the thing is millions of people file FTC claims every year.... and for a lot less as well, the only reason the media jumped on it is because hes "part of our movement" so yeah actions of one damage many. lol

doesn't mean i agreed with what he did though........ though not a big deal... hes just given the rest of the media and other people a reason to bash us which is retarded to be honest.

The thing is this guy chose to walk up to Bioware's doors and wave the fact he had done this in their face because the first place he did this was right here on these forums. He was looking for attention, trying to scare Bioware into action or face potential legal action is what he did wrong.

It would've been one thing if this complaint was just filed and left to rest, he filed and waved it around for all to see.

[wulf3n]

Lankist wrote...
If you think the FTC is going to consider this to be false advertising, perhaps you should tune in to QVC sometime to see just how flexible truth-in-advertising laws are.

but how are things going to get better if people don't fight for what they believe in?

[dyeowart]

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

goose2989 wrote...

The majority of us don't agree with his actions

The majority of people don't seem to be aware of the role of the FTC and think a false advertising report is an "extreme" action.

If you think the FTC is going to consider this to be false advertising, perhaps you should tune in to QVC sometime to see just how flexible truth-in-advertising laws are.

If the Shamwow folks are still in business, do you seriously think the FTC is going to care about these sorts of semantics?

Strawman.  Did I say that I think the FTC will pursue it?  It's obviously not going to go anywhere, but it's hardly an extreme action.

[KingDan97]

wulf3n wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...
The movement as it was actually held pity from those who had completed the game by and large. The only people who actively opposed the idea were the press and those who didn't like the ending of a TV show. Now even those who've completed the game will believe that we're either going to get our ending or see Bioware destroyed for not.

being one of those who "held pity" I don't "
believe that we're either going to get our ending or see Bioware destroyed for not" what I see instead are a group of people so afraid of upsetting people that didn't even agree with them in the first place that they're willing to try and deny someone thier rights.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have filed the bloody complaint, I'm saying you don't throw a stone at a man much bigger than you and then take the time to point and laugh, especially not when you NEED HIS HELP.

[Noctifer3]

Wow..   this is... um. Interesting.  So to kind of support a bit of the sanity on here - the only reason anyone in this forum or that guy cares about the ending of this game is that the game is great.  I can't remember Any game that players have gotten so invested in as all of you seem to be.  But.... it is a game.  A product.  A book / movie / form of entertainment.  If a movie is crap - and I mean Really crap - you can ask for you money back.. but ME3 was not even close to that line.  And I am sorry, as much as I would like some more ending options, you don't go to any artist in the universe and try to take them to a legal body in order to change their artistic vision - unless you comissioned it, have a detailed contract with them, and they did not meet your particular request.  Sorry.. still stunned.  I mean, you want them to try to make more games like this right?  Not to turtle in and play it safe because of legal worries?

Ok, so sanity call here.  They are never going to change the end of the game.  The end of the game probably took months to prepare if not more, they are not going to change it for free because some people will like it.  They will release more options for endings via DLC, probably with new characters or new missions or whatever, because with DLC we are paying money and EA loves money so EA will make Bioware do it.

So um. Seriously.  It is a game.  It is a writer's thoughts on how to end a story.  It is a team's attempt to bring it all together and make it epic - and Epic takes much longer to render (did you see how long the cut scenes at the end were??  Can you remember a lot of other games who matched that?) then non-Epic.  And also... I don't know.. use your imaginations.  Like in the old days.  Write out fan-endings.  Suspend disbelief and decide that the billenia old creature did not particularly care about the commander's arguments regarding Geth, or that he/she had lost too much blood to argue the point.  Or wait for DLC.  But wow.. (Um, the charity thing and polite discussions are nice though. Still stunned by taking a group of artists to the FTC because you like their product enough to care but they were not perfect, I am sorry, that is beyond not rational)

[Lankist]

wulf3n wrote...

Lankist wrote...
If you think the FTC is going to consider this to be false advertising, perhaps you should tune in to QVC sometime to see just how flexible truth-in-advertising laws are.

but how are things going to get better if people don't fight for what they believe in?

The FTC is not a soapbox, it is a regulatory agency designed to prevent overtly manipulative business practices (monopolies, artificial scarcity, anti-competition, etc.) that directly harm the national economy, either by manipulating the market directly or manipulating the consumer to the ends of manipulating the market. It is not a soapbox and it does not function as a traditional consumer advocacy group.

And all of that is moot, because Bioware is being more receptive to their audience than I dare say any game development studio has ever been in the history of the industry, to the point where an actual change seems like a feasible possibility at this juncture. This sort of "fighting for what you believe in" bunk by attempting to go over their heads when they have been more responsive to their consumerbase than a corporate entity has any right to be in this day and age is downright ludicrious. It's a terrible idea, please don't do it.

[Helion Tide]

How can one man tarnish the image of an entire "movement"?

Considering just about everyone posting in this thread is sporting the "@RetakeMassEffect" tag, making ludicrous demands to something that hasn't even happened yet, the media is quick to make assumptions based on global data. It's inevitable.

That was not the end of the game. Making demands and raging on the internet about something based on premature notions, is only going to give yourselves, along with the Mass Effect franchise, a bad name. It's just how the world (read: media) works.

I have no qualms with raising money for charity, with standing together and "holding the line" due to misconceived notions that you received a product that was in direct contradiction to what you, as the consumers, were promised.. but most of you fail to realize the gravity of the situation. That was NOT the end of the game. How would a company capitalize on their product, future products within the franchise, DLC, films, etc -- after an "ending" like that? Absolutely nothing makes sense about the ending, whether you're a proponent of the indoctrination or hallucination theories or not, and yet here are thousands of people completely committed to demanding a NEW ending that satisfies their hopes and demands as a consumer. It would be insurmountably irrational for a company to spoil such a promising franchise in such a manner, and I think more credit and appreciation is needed where it is due. Even more so than that; patience.

This is noble on its surface, but just like the ending of ME3.. if you take it at face value only for what you assume it was, you are ignoring the fact that there was more to it, and more to come.

Hold the line, make demands.. but please don't give game developers a bad name in the name of consumerism and self righteousness.

So, with that said, I'm glad everyone here is against this recent ploy, and that you all continue to appeal to your rights as loyal fans and consumers in the most civil manner possible.

[Singu]

One of the logical conclusion to why the ending is "wrong" is the marketing language by Bioware pre-release. If the FTC deem it to mis-represent the product he got they will do their SOP thing with notifying Bioware and encouraging them to refund the customer who filed the complaint.

Will they do it? Not likely. But I think it's a valid action by the customer based upon one of the grievances we have of the ending. Bad marketing that did not reflect the product we got.

I payed for the DEE, and feel robbed of that money, but not enough to do what this guy did. But I'm not going to beat him over the head with a stick for doing it.

Modifié par Singu, 19 mars 2012 - 12:47 .

[Lankist]

dyeowart wrote...

Strawman.  Did I say that I think the FTC will pursue it?  It's obviously not going to go anywhere, but it's hardly an extreme action.

So you're advocating being loudly vidictive to no real ends?

How is that better?

[Elidor109]

Bioware obviously filed this complaint against themselves so that they could make us look bad

[Ender99]

It was within his rights to do so. The fact the someone is willing to do this just shows how important this is to us. I say hit them every way you can.

As for the rest of the media, they're going to find ways to bash us no matter what.

[dyeowart]

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Strawman.  Did I say that I think the FTC will pursue it?  It's obviously not going to go anywhere, but it's hardly an extreme action.

So you're advocating being loudly vidictive to no real ends?

How is that better?

Vindictive...  are you serious?  Do you really think whoever filed that is actually aiming to damage EA/bioware in any way (hint, even if the FTC took it seriously and decided it was false advertising, it'd be a minor fine at worst)?

If anything I'd chalk it up to naivity - actually thinking false advertising is enforcable is funny in a way.

Modifié par dyeowart, 19 mars 2012 - 12:49 .

[General User]

Elidor109 wrote...

Bioware obviously filed this complaint against themselves so that they could make us look bad

This is utterly paranoid and so Machiavellian it makes my head spin.

I like you.

[Lankist]

dyeowart wrote...

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Strawman.  Did I say that I think the FTC will pursue it?  It's obviously not going to go anywhere, but it's hardly an extreme action.

So you're advocating being loudly vidictive to no real ends?

How is that better?

Vindictive...  are you serious?  Do you really think whoever filed that is actually aiming to damage EA/bioware in any way (hint, even if the FTC took it seriously and decided it was false advertising, it'd be a minor fine at worst)?

It's vindictive because you're waving it around like a battleflag.

(Note: "You" is a hypothetical you, addressing "you" as the advocate for that perspective.)

Modifié par Lankist, 19 mars 2012 - 12:50 .

[ek5000]

General User wrote...

No it doesn't.  Unsanitary food is objectively verifiable, not a subjective matter of opinion or taste (no pun intended).

Also your analogy likens the ending of ME3 to a maggot.   A gross insult to maggots everywhere.

Fine, I should have added that the said carton had a sticker stating "maggot free".

The point I was trying to make is, that if the product in question was anything else than a video game, people wouldn't blame the consumers for complaining.

Personally I don't think it's a swell idea to take these complaints that far, but it is within his rights as a paying customer.

Oh and, a sincere apology to maggots everywhere.

[dyeowart]

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Lankist wrote...

dyeowart wrote...

Strawman.  Did I say that I think the FTC will pursue it?  It's obviously not going to go anywhere, but it's hardly an extreme action.

So you're advocating being loudly vidictive to no real ends?

How is that better?

Vindictive...  are you serious?  Do you really think whoever filed that is actually aiming to damage EA/bioware in any way (hint, even if the FTC took it seriously and decided it was false advertising, it'd be a minor fine at worst)?

It's vindictive because you're waving it around like a battleflag.

Second strawman in three posts.  I'm waiving it around like a battleflag?  All I've said is it's hardly an extreme action.