222 réponses à ce sujet

[Altered Idol]

berguina wrote...

Ceira wrote...


I am a female gamer.

I know people's eyes gloss over when they see someone say that, and they probably think to themselves "Oh boy, here we go..." But I bring this up to make a point. Games in general do not typically have positive depictions of women. Heroines usually have really huge boobs, no personality, and spend the entire course of the game pining for men. 

I'm a female gamer too and honestely I don't have any problem with the end, actually I was afraid to face some stupid soap opera  happy end with a nice retirement, house and children. Instead I've got a nice sci-fi end.
I've played both male/female Shepard and I've more than 500 hours of gameplay of ME1 and ME2.

The end is in my opinion very logical. The Reapers exist since milion of years and since milion of years they control the world; I don't see how, actually, actions in the short Shepard life can make a big difference in the final battle, except that the more friends Shepard had, the easier would be to collect all forces together and arrive to the Citadel and the confroctation with the Reapers. 

Also, I don't see possible a trivial ending: use a big gun, explose all reapers and live happily afterall,  easily succeeding what several galactic civilization didn't. That's would be  a 
really  bad sci-fi.

As all ME3 brings us in a war world with scene of distruction and desespairation much harder than in the 2 previous games and more concrete (Shepard doesn't fight only in some hypotetical far away colony, but on Earth and on all homeworld of his/her friends), I see  the sacrifice ending one of the best possible.

What really makes me frustated and depressed in these days is to see how many people overeact to this choice of Bioware and invoque a consumist view of the world, that I would resume as "I've collected a lot of points, so now I deserve a happy end".

There are 2 points that disturb me in this: first a t all, the hero that dies to save the universe is not an unhappy end, second it's that the real life doesn't work like that: also good people die. One person can be a very good one, make peace with their neighbour, do a lot of good things and still can die in an earthquake, because of a problem in a nuclear plant, in a war they didn't want, etc. 

To conclude, I will cite Commander Shepard: "Life is not about what you deserve" 

Respect that and I have no problems with people who enjoyed the ending. Unfortunately, its ending (singular not plural) and that's what I have a big problem with. I don't mind having endings where Shepard dies, its fair enough. But there should be an option for a happyish ending. it will not be a Disney ending as there's so much thats gone on (Galaxy in ruins etc)..

Fans have invested alot of time and money into the series and should have the option for the story to play out how they want to. I've got a few different builds, why should I replay it with them when it ends pretty much the same way every single time.

Shepard has overcome impossible odds before and survived, yet he/she surrenders meekly to the flawed logic of some God-Child who is only introduced in the final few minutes of the game? Not bloody likely with my Shep. Sorry but that is bad sci-fi.

And there's other points with the ending that simply don't make any sense (relay destruction, normandy fleeing etc). And another kicker, same clips with different colours. You like the ending, thats cool. But many of us don't and neither viewpoint should be discarded.

[berguina]

MDT1 wrote...

Have you played arrival? Do you remeber what happend to the batarians on the planet in the system were arrival took place? 

Yes, I did.
A lot of people explained this already in these unstoppable discussions. In Arrival the mass relay was distroyed by sending an asteroid on it. At the end of ME3 the reapers use some other technology to do it. They are just there, they wouldn't use a technology that destroy them and, koreover, they have more technology than organics have. So, I can suppose that Shepard didn't have any other option in arrival, but the Reapers have.

[berguina]

Traim Eisenblut wrote...

How is the way RL works of any matter to this subject?
.

I've mentioned the real world because a lot of people are saying that the end is not logical. Of course, I know, there are no mass relays, no eezo, no FTL, no IFF and, fortunately, no reapers in the real world.

[Altered Idol]

berguina wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

Have you played arrival? Do you remeber what happend to the batarians on the planet in the system were arrival took place? 

Yes, I did.
A lot of people explained this already in these unstoppable discussions. In Arrival the mass relay was distroyed by sending an asteroid on it. At the end of ME3 the reapers use some other technology to do it. They are just there, they wouldn't use a technology that destroy them and, koreover, they have more technology than organics have. So, I can suppose that Shepard didn't have any other option in arrival, but the Reapers have.

None of that was explained though. 

People who played Arrival DLC would assume that an exploding Mass Relay would contain the same amount of energy whether hit by an asteroid or self-destructed. So when the relays went Kaboom, then it would result in the destruction of that star system. There is little/no evidence to tne contrary.

Modifié par Altered Idol, 19 mars 2012 - 01:54 .

[MDT1]

berguina wrote...

MDT1 wrote...

Have you played arrival? Do you remeber what happend to the batarians on the planet in the system were arrival took place? 

Yes, I did.
A lot of people explained this already in these unstoppable discussions. In Arrival the mass relay was distroyed by sending an asteroid on it. At the end of ME3 the reapers use some other technology to do it. They are just there, they wouldn't use a technology that destroy them and, koreover, they have more technology than organics have. So, I can suppose that Shepard didn't have any other option in arrival, but the Reapers have.

Thats fan fiction.
The point is, why couldn't Bioware just make GodKid mention this? Why wouldn't Shepard even ask or bother? Why did the Normandy try to escape an harmless wave of friendship? Why took it damage by beeing hit from a harmless wave of friendship? Why would thy leave Shepard an try to escape at all, even Prothy? This is what bothers me with th ending.
At best Bioware was to lazy to do it right, at worst they share the batarians fate?
How does this make the end logic?

When people want ab better ending, they don't demand a happy ending, the demand an ending produced with the same quality and effort like the rest of the series.
The ending seems rushed because it lacks simple answers to the most obvious problems.

Also funny that you ignored the other problems I had mentioned.

Modifié par MDT1, 19 mars 2012 - 02:05 .

[Corbinus]

IMHO the only good thing in Endings is what we see when Normandy's door is opened in Green Ending. I was touched since it was really heartwarming.
But overall my reaction was more like "WTF is this Evangelion stuff doing in my Mass Effect 3? I like
Evangelion but this the wrong universe! Okey, lets see what other endings show us "
/cue sadness and disappointment

[Traim Eisenblut]

berguina wrote...

Traim Eisenblut wrote...

How is the way RL works of any matter to this subject?
.

I've mentioned the real world because a lot of people are saying that the end is not logical. Of course, I know, there are no mass relays, no eezo, no FTL, no IFF and, fortunately, no reapers in the real world.

Well, the end is not logical as it does not stick to the boarders of logic given within the mass effect fiction. That`s what "lore" is about. No matter what emotional impact, if tragic or not, the physics the mass effect universe is based on are ignored in the end by a deity-like being who is above it all. That`s what people mean when they say the end ist "not logical".

[Kathleen321]

I feel ya girl ;,,,,,,,,,(

[Corbinus]

Altered Idol wrote...
People who played Arrival DLC would assume that an exploding Mass Relay would contain the same amount of energy whether hit by an asteroid or self-destructed. So when the relays went Kaboom, then it would result in the destruction of that star system. There is little/no evidence to tne contrary.

I personally think that there are 2 completly different things - to destroy a Mass Relay with a huge rock or blow it up with Crucible energy. What we saw on the Galaxy Map were Mass Relays each creating the ball of green\\blue\\red energy to affect everyone in the system and then blowing up without wiping  out anyone.
Besides that would be  just stupid - what's the point of those 3 choices if the majority of the galaxy got killed? Yes the ending sucks, but it is not that stupid.

Modifié par Corbinus, 19 mars 2012 - 02:08 .

[MDT1]

Corbinus wrote...

Altered Idol wrote...
People who played Arrival DLC would assume that an exploding Mass Relay would contain the same amount of energy whether hit by an asteroid or self-destructed. So when the relays went Kaboom, then it would result in the destruction of that star system. There is little/no evidence to tne contrary.

I personally think that there are 2 completly different things - to destroy a Mass Relay with a huge rock or blow it up with Crucible energy. What we saw on the Galaxy Map was Mass Relay creating the ball of greenbluered energy to affect everyone in the system and then blowing up without wiping  out anyone.
Besides that would be  just stupid - what's the point of this 3 choices if the majority of the galaxy got killed? Yes the ending sucks, but it is not that stupid.

But this is exactly why it sucks.

in a good ending Shepard would have asked "wait a moment, doesn't this oblitterate every solar system a mass relay is in?", godkid would have answered "no, we use [insert kind of space magic] to prevent this" and Shepard would reply " ah, and I'm supposed to belive this from the guy that had the last millions of years nothing better to do than try to kill every advanced organic lifeform all 50k years?" and so on ...

I hope you get what I mean.


Edit: And again, all evidence the game gives us about the nature of the explosion is that the Normandy tries to escape it and gets damaged when hit by it. perhaps the reason for it was that in a certain low emp ending this makes sense, but wouldn't the fact that they didn't bother to change it for the other endings also imply that the ending was rushed?

Modifié par MDT1, 19 mars 2012 - 02:26 .

[Altered Idol]

Corbinus wrote...

Altered Idol wrote...
People who played Arrival DLC would assume that an exploding Mass Relay would contain the same amount of energy whether hit by an asteroid or self-destructed. So when the relays went Kaboom, then it would result in the destruction of that star system. There is little/no evidence to tne contrary.

I personally think that there are 2 completly different things - to destroy a Mass Relay with a huge rock or blow it up with Crucible energy. What we saw on the Galaxy Map were Mass Relays each creating the ball of greenbluered energy to affect everyone in the system and then blowing up without wiping  out anyone.
Besides that would be  just stupid - what's the point of those 3 choices if the majority of the galaxy got killed? Yes the ending sucks, but it is not that stupid.

But its not explained that if the relays are destroyed in two different ways, two different outcomes happen. Its left to the player to figure out and thats pretty lazy. As I say, playing Arrvial DLC, my initial thought if the relays exploded would be that it would release the same amouint of energy as if an asteroid smashed into it. That would be my reaction as there is little/no evidence to the contrary.

Shutting down the relays I would have accepted that it wouldn't be that way, but the fact is they explode and we are left to speculate is frustrating. And its a moot point I suppose anyway. Even if they systems aren't destroyed, they are now all isolated anyways.

[Corbinus]

MDT1 wrote...

Corbinus wrote...

Altered Idol wrote...
People who played Arrival DLC would assume that an exploding Mass Relay would contain the same amount of energy whether hit by an asteroid or self-destructed. So when the relays went Kaboom, then it would result in the destruction of that star system. There is little/no evidence to tne contrary.

I personally think that there are 2 completly different things - to destroy a Mass Relay with a huge rock or blow it up with Crucible energy. What we saw on the Galaxy Map was Mass Relay creating the ball of greenbluered energy to affect everyone in the system and then blowing up without wiping  out anyone.
Besides that would be  just stupid - what's the point of this 3 choices if the majority of the galaxy got killed? Yes the ending sucks, but it is not that stupid.

But this is exactly why it sucks.

in a good ending Shepard would have asked "wait a moment, doesn't this oblitterate every solar system a mass relay is in?", godkid would have answered "no, we use [insert kind of space magic] to prevent this" and Shepard would reply " ah, and I'm supposed to belive this from the guy that had the last millions of years nothing better to do than try to kill every advanced organic lifeform all 50k years?" and so on ...
I hope you get what I mean.

I get you. Well, what can I say... Bioware didn't do this because they wanted "lots of speculations" from fans:sick:.  Which was wrong because  Mass Effect isn't  a type  of universe that built on speculations and they shouldn't have such a large role in the ending:whistle:. (I read that the Investigate option was cut out because fans do not need
to know... wow, that is stupid, since we knew little of Reapers and
NOTHING about Catalyst, we obviously NEED to know all we can!.)
As for ingame explanation...I think I have to agree with what someone said in other thread - Shepard was  tired, exhausted and dying, battle with Reapers was raging so he\\she had no time for proper interrogation.

P.S. In no way I am trying to say that the ending is not so bad as it seems.. nah, its terrible. I just trying to give it as much sense as possible:police:

[MDT1]

Corbinus wrote...
I get you. Well, what can I say... Bioware didn't do this because they wanted "lots of speculations" from fans:sick:.  Which was wrong because  Mass Effect isn't  a type  of universe that built on speculations and they shouldn't have such a large role in the ending:whistle:. (I read that the Investigate option was cut out because fans do not need
to know... wow, that is stupid, since we knew little of Reapers and
NOTHING about Catalyst, we obviously NEED to know all we can!.)
As for ingame explanation...I think I have to agree with what someone said in other thread - Shepard was  tired, exhausted and dying, battle with Reapers was raging so heshe had no time for proper interrogation.

P.S. In no way I am trying to say that the ending is not so bad as it seems.. nah, its terrible. I just trying to give it as much sense as possible:police:

Ah ok.
And to be clear, I wouldn't mind to discuss the ending only about what happens next.
What I mind is that I have to discuss and invent fanfic to make any sense of it!

Seriously, this is the most important moment ever, and Shepard is just to "tired" to question the guy who killed quadrillions of organics during its existence but buy everthing he says?

How do you explain ME1? Was the godkid to small to reach the console in the council chambers?

Modifié par MDT1, 19 mars 2012 - 02:38 .

[Getorex]

Amazon is giving refunds if you bought ME3 from them. EA Games is allowing for replacement in kind. You can replace ME3 with another game of equal value and it doesn't have to be a Bioware title. I am getting a replacement from EA. I am taking my money away from Bioware and will not pay for, or play, ME3 again until they fix the ending so that it and the previous titles regain replay value. That means no suicide in EVERY ending.

[Getorex]

MDT1 wrote...

Corbinus wrote...
I get you. Well, what can I say... Bioware didn't do this because they wanted "lots of speculations" from fans:sick:.  Which was wrong because  Mass Effect isn't  a type  of universe that built on speculations and they shouldn't have such a large role in the ending:whistle:. (I read that the Investigate option was cut out because fans do not need
to know... wow, that is stupid, since we knew little of Reapers and
NOTHING about Catalyst, we obviously NEED to know all we can!.)
As for ingame explanation...I think I have to agree with what someone said in other thread - Shepard was  tired, exhausted and dying, battle with Reapers was raging so heshe had no time for proper interrogation.

P.S. In no way I am trying to say that the ending is not so bad as it seems.. nah, its terrible. I just trying to give it as much sense as possible:police:

Ah ok.
And to be clear, I wouldn't mind to discuss the ending only about what happens next.
What I mind is that I have to discuss and invent fanfic to make any sense of it!

Seriously, this is the most important moment ever, and Shepard is just to "tired" to question the guy who killed quadrillions of organics during its existence but buy everthing he says?

How do you explain ME1? Was the godkid to small to reach the console in the council chambers?

He was busy playing with his Hotwheels cars.

[Ieldra]

Ceira wrote...
But that ending... That... freaking ending... The ending was so jaw-droppingly horrible that I felt like someone had snatched the heart out of my chest and squeezed the blood from the tissue right in front of me. I don't mean to be graphic, but that's pretty much what it was like. I felt awful, about as badly as I did when my cat died last year.

You're not the only one. That's exactly how I felt.

The universe they exist in cannot be resurrected due to the decisions made by the writers. And that's what hurts the most.

It's not that the series is over that bothers me. All stories must inevitably come to an end. What bothers me is that it was ended in such a way that it is impossible to even begin to hope for another. All positive feelings and whispy dreams of life in such a future world have been mercilessly crushed.

QFT*1000000

All the untold stories that lived in our imagination have been crushed, and all the fond memories of playing ME games have been tainted. As SF fans, we project our hopes out to the stars. To deliberately crush them like this feels.....sadistic. I have no other word for it. All the hopeful comments made by characters in-game, even if half-joking....to end like this?

I'm coming away from this series heart-broken and depressed. I've tried doing a few multiplayer matches since finishing the main plot, but my taste for that has turned to bitter ash, as well. It's just... over. I'll probably uninstall it and go back to playing 'safe' things now, never again returning to RPGs. I don't want to run the risk of getting burned like this again.

There you have it, Bioware. I would like you to think hard about what you've done. I've seen five new threads expressing the same sentiment in the last 24 hours, and countless replies saying "Me, too." That's not how a good story should end.

Do something!

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 mars 2012 - 02:45 .

[MDT1]

And I note about a "Happy ending".
Billions are already dead,, planets in ruin, you loose important people on your jorney through ME3, this wouldn't be a disney ending even if everthing goes pony from the point you enter the citadel.

[Ravennus]

Yttrian wrote...

They promised choices that reflected your character.
They promised consequence that reflected your choices.
They promised variety that reflected both.
They promised closure that reflected our relationships.
They promised answers to our questions.
They promised not to have a "A, B or C" ending.

They lied.

I'm so sorry, and I completely agree with you.  I'm a male gamer but felt the same thing by the end, though perhaps I enjoyed the journey of ME3 a bit more (thought 98% of the game was damn near perfect, with only a few nitpicks).

The above poster also sums up how sad and embarrassing their marketing was.  Complete lies from the developers on so many fronts, INCLUDING a stickied post that is STILL on the forums saying that Multiplayer is not required for the 'best' ending.
Proven lies.

So sad and depressing... I've loved Bioware and Mass Effect for so long...

[Getorex]

MDT1 wrote...

And I note about a "Happy ending".
Billions are already dead,, planets in ruin, you loose important people on your jorney through ME3, this wouldn't be a disney ending even if everthing goes pony from the point you enter the citadel.

That's right.  But a pony wouldn't hurt...and the pony likely needs help since his/her previous owner is LIKELY DEAD.

Money talks.  Bioware will actually feel money loss over forum complaints.  You can get a refund from Amazon.com if you bought it from them OR if you bought it from Origin/EA Games, you can get a replacement game of equal value.

In all cases you are free to re-purchase ME3 if and when Bioware delivers what they originally promised and restores the replay value of ME1 and 2 and provides any replay value to ME3.  As it is, ME3 is a one-play wonder that sucks the life out of 1 and 2.

Money talks. 

[LiquidLovin]

The ending didn't make me angry; it confused me. It serves as a bad note to an otherwise exceptional experience if I have to go onto the forums to try to understand what I had seen in the ending.

I think that if the ending were given more context than it would not only have more emotional impact but also allow a larger audience to understand what was happening in those final moments.

The audience will ultimately have the real power:

- A Japanese anime, Neon Genesis Evangelion, had an OVA produced after the series ended to make sense of the convuluted and esoteric ending Yoshiko Tomino had planned. The result was an ending that kept its impact but made sense.

- Fallout 3. The ending was changed with Broken Steel, allowing the player to continue roaming the wastes after players complained about the lack of exploration after the credits rolled (sound familiar?)

I'm not saying we have to be trolls or an angry mob. I'm not saying that we have to stop supporting BioWare or RPGs in general. I am saying that if we want to change this, we can. Let's just be mature about it and support the petitions.

[Oldbones2]

It's great to say I don't think the relays killed everyone. And I don't think Bioware intended for them too. But the logic is undeniable.

Mass Effect Relays are essentially big containers of energy. The way it is destroyed is irrelevant. When the relays blows that energy is released in the form of radiation, radiation then spreads out over the solar system, hits stuff (like people) turns into heat energy and cooks us all alive.

Hurray for science!

And if the relay explosions aren't dangerous, why is Joker running from them? Clearly the blasts smash up the Normandy. So at the very least, that fleet of alien allies who came to rescue Earth, yeah, their ships blew up and they're all dead.

[Getorex]

Oldbones2 wrote...

It's great to say I don't think the relays killed everyone. And I don't think Bioware intended for them too. But the logic is undeniable.

Mass Effect Relays are essentially big containers of energy. The way it is destroyed is irrelevant. When the relays blows that energy is released in the form of radiation, radiation then spreads out over the solar system, hits stuff (like people) turns into heat energy and cooks us all alive.

Hurray for science!

And if the relay explosions aren't dangerous, why is Joker running from them? Clearly the blasts smash up the Normandy. So at the very least, that fleet of alien allies who came to rescue Earth, yeah, their ships blew up and they're all dead.

Indeed.  The explosions were so bad that they had to travel at FTL speed to BARELY escape.  How far, do you suppose, one must travel to fall upon a liveable planet ala the ending sequence?  All to run away from a merely bright flash and circuit breaker pop in the Relays?  

If you have to run to an entirely different system to escape with your lives (and just barely) then ANY system that contains a Mass Relay is DEAD.  ME2 "The Arrival" sets the stage.  You blow a Mass Relay, you kill the system.  The explosion is just that powerful and dangerous. Keep in mind too that they show a distant shot of the galaxy in its entirety and you watch as relay after relay blows in a bright flash.  You know what does that in real life?  What produces such a bright flash explosion?  Commonly a supernova.  Totally wastes the system that experiences it AND ANY NEARBY SYSTEMS TOO!  A supernova explosion is nasty ****.

In any case, even if they explain the inchoate ending in a manner that makes sense, you STILL lose replay value.  Why?  What you just saw was THE best outcome you could possibly get!  There are no shades of gray bracketed by a black ending and a white ending.  There is nothing but bleak, black ending.  Why replay THAT?  Why run a different version of Shepard through all that just to get the very same endpoint?  

If ME2 ALWAYS ended with the same 3 or 4 characters dying, why play it more than once?  

Modifié par Getorex, 19 mars 2012 - 03:06 .

[berguina]

Altered Idol wrote...

Fans have invested alot of time and money into the series and should have the option for the story to play out how they want to.
....
 You like the ending, thats cool. But many of us don't and neither viewpoint should be discarded.

Actually, Bioware has invested really a lot of time, work and money to make this game. And their viewpoint shouldn't be discarded, independently of my opinion or your opinion of the end.

Try to do a game yourself and soon you will realize how much effort this implies. 

Moreover, ask them to rewrite their art is for me inacceptable. (and would be even if they had provided an ending I don't like).

[MDT1]

berguina wrote...

Altered Idol wrote...

Fans have invested alot of time and money into the series and should have the option for the story to play out how they want to.
....
 You like the ending, thats cool. But many of us don't and neither viewpoint should be discarded.

Actually, Bioware has invested really a lot of time, work and money to make this game. And their viewpoint shouldn't be discarded, independently of my opinion or your opinion of the end.

Try to do a game yourself and soon you will realize how much effort this implies. 

Moreover, ask them to rewrite their art is for me inacceptable. (and would be even if they had provided an ending I don't like).

If Bioware wants to make games only for the artistic value they have to them, they should stop trying to sell them.
At this point art becomes also a product, and the value of a product is determind by the customer.

Modifié par MDT1, 19 mars 2012 - 03:20 .

[BaKaNoOB]

I think that people that like the endings are biow..... spyes..