177 réponses à ce sujet

[Maggot Alchemist]

justlogme wrote...

Maggot Alchemist wrote...

MikoDoll wrote...

Maggot Alchemist wrote...

justlogme wrote...

Maggot Alchemist wrote...

Someone should take the person who filed this and beat them over the head with a rock.

  Interesting since someone is unhappy and takes it to the correct legal athorities to be investigated they should then be physically beaten? You pro-EA/Bioware defenders sure are a scary lot. What next maybe a witch hunt?
Guess I'm happy on this side holding the line then over there with you.....

It seems you didnt read my next post where i said i was unhappy becuase of the endings...But hey i guess your one of these kids who think they have to have everything their way....If you dont like the way the game went or ended why dont you just make the game yourself? I for one loved the whole game the story right up until the end.....The endings are horrible but is going to the FTC actually doing anything?

I'm sorry but how are you calling people "kids" when you aren't being remotely civil and mature about this?  This isn't about having *everything* their way, this is about responding to false advertising which is hardly wanting everything. Many people feel like they were ripped off, the question is, would that hold up well enough to file a complaint. If you want to  argue that there was no false advertising go ahead, but don't simply say you don't have to provide a reason why you would do something far more extreme and inflict violence upon a person and then act as though you have the moral podium to talk down on the person who filed the complaint. Please calm down about this.. I'd rather a discussion on the actual merits of a declaration of false advertising instead of "kill him with fire" remarks.

Is this about the rock? 

I was just saying i'm not gonna bash anyone with one.....or maybe i will. 

  Sorry to late you already did.
  For the record I'm a 46 y/o male LVN x-army 91C/91B  fought/served in both desert storm and desert shield. While I didn't file any complaint you are most welcome to come and beat me with a rock as you feel violance and insults are the only way opreate on these forums
   People like you are simply sad really....

Says the guy who called me a EA/BW defender....Still thanks for your contributions and sacrifice to our country.

[mjb203]

MikoDoll wrote...

mjb203 wrote...

Hostee_y0 wrote...

I also filled a complaint with the FTC and it's within my legal right's to as an american. call it what you want but this is what the FTC was established for.

^This people. 

Seriously, I'm willing to give Bioware some time on this, but if they don't do something about the endings, I'll be filing a complaint as well.  Not only were we told that there were 16 different endings, but we were also told it wouldn't be an, "A, B, or C" situation.  There were only 6 (maybe 7) endings, which were at most differentiated with explosion colors, and it was an "A, B, or C" choice. 

Now that I've vented a bit, every one that files a complaint is within their rights as a consumer.  You may not agree with it and that's fine, but no one should resort to name calling here.

This I find interesting, can I have a quote/link of where this ABC situation was mentioned? I also heard they said they tweaked the endings after the leaked script. Did that happen or not? Can someone who read the leak and bought the game actually vouch whether or not they changed it?

http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2

There you go.

[justlogme]

MikoDoll wrote...

mjb203 wrote...

Crusina wrote...

zambingo wrote...

Wasting the Court's time with a complaint about how an entertainment property ended is deservedly mock-able.

But that's not to say it isn't valid to be upset at how ME3 ended.

The court's time is not wasted.  It is a complaint, nothing more, nothing less.  It is NOT a lawsuit of any kind.

It's kind of sad that even as the person who said they filed the complaint said they are NOT  filing a suit everyone is assuming this and going off the handle.

DISCLAIMER: Before you start debating how dumb I am, let me be clear.
THIS IS NOT A LAWSUIT. THIS IS NOT SERIOUS LEGAL ACTION. This is a
complaint about EA/Bioware's advertising, filed with the the
organizations that handle false advertising in the U.S. As EA is the
publisher, they were the appropriate people to complain about. If you
don't think that exercising one of the few, civil, legal ways available
to hold a company accountable is stupid or immature, that's fine. If
somehow (space magic?) they actually decided to do something other than
send EA an email about it, there would be a miniscule fine, that's it.
There is no way that this could "tear bioware apart" or anything of the
sort. If you still think I need to be called stupid or immature, then
post away.

Poor guy...why do people keep saying he's trying take serious legal action? He's not..

  agreed many people here do not seem to know what the FTC is or what its purpose is maybe some simple googling on their part rather then insults and threats of violence would be better.

[Stoko981]

Check out all the quotes BioWare gave prerelease. Specifically the ones cited in AngryJoe's 10 Reasons We Hate The Ending video. They specifically stated the game would not end this way. That the endings would diverge into wildly different places based on your choices and actions across the three games. That was a lie, the endings are damned near identical. They said there'd be 16, there's three. The difference between them? Textures, basically. Plus some minor differences in the level of destruction, which is only determined by ME3's EMS, nothing more. So that was a lie. They said it wouldn't be just "A, B or C". It literally is a choice of three. Left, middle, right. 1, 2, 3. A, B, C. Another lie.

We anticipated the game based on these lies, which would all have been released during interviews as carefully planned PR. That's false advertising. I don't know what the FTC is, I'm not American. But over here? Trading standards would probably want a word if they were a British company.

[Icinix]

Teacher50 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

YKfox wrote...

How does reporting BioWare to the FTC even work...? BioWare is a Canadian company, last I checked. Above and beyond that, I fail to see how BioWare did anything wrong. I've not yet seen any of the endings, but I'm sure I'll like them.

First - I sincerely hope you do.

Second - it comes down to what you believe as a consumer is being told to you and if the product you have purchased based on that information lives up to what you believe has been told to you.

As for BioWare / Canada / America - I don't believe it should cause any issue because you're still selling a product under that countires laws.

Aaw, so true... the new age in consumerism for gaming started right here. Thanks Bioware and EA. Great products poor ending.

I think its time this was pushed. If people don't start making a stand on issues (any issues regarding the gaming industry) gamers will continuously get walked over by the companies.

Companies need to konw that gamers won't just gobble up everything that put out and ask for more. Why would they want people to see games as anything more than "..just a game." if it means that have a free pass to produce whatever they want, with any kind of distribution platfrom they want, with any kind of false advertising they want, without legitimate reviews, with as many bugs or technical issues as they want and without concerns being raised in a serious forum.

Its really time the whole stigma about games being just games ended. It is a multi billion dollar industry that should be be reminded they're producing products we should enjoy. As it stands its more and more game companies seem like they are producing products just for their profit margin, not for consumers enjoyment AND their profit margin.

[_symphony]

Icinix wrote...

I don't have a link to the ABC endings - but its certainly true - there is a thread here that has all of the marketing quotes regarding the ending.

The choices / outcomes are the same as the leak.

This thread?
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1

[Teacher50]

Maggot Alchemist wrote...

justlogme wrote...

Maggot Alchemist wrote...

MikoDoll wrote...

Maggot Alchemist wrote...

justlogme wrote...

Maggot Alchemist wrote...

Someone should take the person who filed this and beat them over the head with a rock.

  Interesting since someone is unhappy and takes it to the correct legal athorities to be investigated they should then be physically beaten? You pro-EA/Bioware defenders sure are a scary lot. What next maybe a witch hunt?
Guess I'm happy on this side holding the line then over there with you.....

It seems you didnt read my next post where i said i was unhappy becuase of the endings...But hey i guess your one of these kids who think they have to have everything their way....If you dont like the way the game went or ended why dont you just make the game yourself? I for one loved the whole game the story right up until the end.....The endings are horrible but is going to the FTC actually doing anything?

I'm sorry but how are you calling people "kids" when you aren't being remotely civil and mature about this?  This isn't about having *everything* their way, this is about responding to false advertising which is hardly wanting everything. Many people feel like they were ripped off, the question is, would that hold up well enough to file a complaint. If you want to  argue that there was no false advertising go ahead, but don't simply say you don't have to provide a reason why you would do something far more extreme and inflict violence upon a person and then act as though you have the moral podium to talk down on the person who filed the complaint. Please calm down about this.. I'd rather a discussion on the actual merits of a declaration of false advertising instead of "kill him with fire" remarks.

Is this about the rock? 

I was just saying i'm not gonna bash anyone with one.....or maybe i will. 

  Sorry to late you already did.
  For the record I'm a 46 y/o male LVN x-army 91C/91B  fought/served in both desert storm and desert shield. While I didn't file any complaint you are most welcome to come and beat me with a rock as you feel violance and insults are the only way opreate on these forums
   People like you are simply sad really....

Says the guy who called me a EA/BW defender....Still thanks for your contributions and sacrifice to our country.

One has to have a clear understanding of the issue... be nice peeps... Thanks

[Icinix]

_symphony wrote...

Icinix wrote...

I don't have a link to the ABC endings - but its certainly true - there is a thread here that has all of the marketing quotes regarding the ending.

The choices / outcomes are the same as the leak.

This thread?
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1

 Thats the one! Danke!

[justlogme]

Is this about the rock? 

I was just saying i'm not gonna bash anyone with one.....or maybe i will. 
[/quote]

  Sorry to late you already did.
  For the record I'm a 46 y/o male LVN x-army 91C/91B  fought/served in both desert storm and desert shield. While I didn't file any complaint you are most welcome to come and beat me with a rock as you feel violance and insults are the only way opreate on these forums
   People like you are simply sad really....
[/quote]


Says the guy who called me a EA/BW defender....Still thanks for your contributions and sacrifice to our country.

[/quote]

   I don't need your thanks remeber i'm, just some entitled whiney kid to you.
 I don't see defending ones beliefs at all as a negative thing untill it cross into violence for something this minor 
 Your perfectly allowed to your opinion that the guy should not have gone to the FTC, but saying he should be physically beaten and that anyone that doesn't agree with you is a entitled whiny kid, sounds like you need to take a break and cool off.

[Lux]

BioWare did come out with false advertisement prior to game release. They should be held accountable by consumers but not in this way. It is at most another way to get attention to the issue and is another reason why BioWare should man up instead of letting things burn uncontrollably. Empty statements are obviously not enough this time.

BioWare crossed a line with the endings and some consumers are taking their example to the letter.

[Maggot Alchemist]

[quote]justlogme wrote...



Is this about the rock? 

I was just saying i'm not gonna bash anyone with one.....or maybe i will. 
[/quote]

  Sorry to late you already did.
  For the record I'm a 46 y/o male LVN x-army 91C/91B  fought/served in both desert storm and desert shield. While I didn't file any complaint you are most welcome to come and beat me with a rock as you feel violance and insults are the only way opreate on these forums
   People like you are simply sad really....
[/quote]


Says the guy who called me a EA/BW defender....Still thanks for your contributions and sacrifice to our country.

[/quote]

   I don't need your thanks remeber i'm, just some entitled whiney kid to you.
 I don't see defending ones beliefs at all as a negative thing untill it cross into violence for something this minor 
 Your perfectly allowed to your opinion that the guy should not have gone to the FTC, but saying he should be physically beaten and that anyone that doesn't agree with you is a entitled whiny kid, sounds like you need to take a break and cool off.[/quote]


About the rock.... To quote Edi "That was a joke". I hope you understand my first post now.

[Wolder88]

The hater logic is rather funny...

Someone stole your bag? who cares, the police has more important stuff to do.

You got sick from eating contaminated food? Who cares, the doctors have more important stuff to do.

The people you work for doesn't pay you the wage you're entitled? Who cares, the financial department has more important stuff to do.

The system is there for a reason. If you want people to respect the big laws you have to enforce the smaller ones too.

[MikoDoll]

Stoko981 wrote...

Check out all the quotes BioWare gave prerelease. Specifically the ones cited in AngryJoe's 10 Reasons We Hate The Ending video. They specifically stated the game would not end this way. That the endings would diverge into wildly different places based on your choices and actions across the three games. That was a lie, the endings are damned near identical. They said there'd be 16, there's three. The difference between them? Textures, basically. Plus some minor differences in the level of destruction, which is only determined by ME3's EMS, nothing more. So that was a lie. They said it wouldn't be just "A, B or C". It literally is a choice of three. Left, middle, right. 1, 2, 3. A, B, C. Another lie.

We anticipated the game based on these lies, which would all have been released during interviews as carefully planned PR. That's false advertising. I don't know what the FTC is, I'm not American. But over here? Trading standards would probably want a word if they were a British company.

Well they're selling in the UK you could probably see what they can do if you want. But so far I figure that there's probably enough reason to suspect an FTC complaint would be valid. It would have to be very very carefully worded though.

[Teacher50]

Merkar wrote...

BioWare did come out with false advertisement prior to game release. They should be held accountable by consumers but not in this way. It is at most another way to get attention to the issue and is another reason why BioWare should man up instead of letting things burn uncontrollably. Empty statements are obviously not enough this time.

BioWare crossed a line with the endings and some consumers are taking their example to the letter.

Gee... I must have missed somthing in my law classes. What people do within the system that is in place and goes along with certain rights as a citizen of this great country is completely within their rights. Posting it here is just there way of saying, hey this is what I did and you should consider it.

Just saying, think about it before you say something that may actually go against your core beliefs.

Modifié par Teacher50, 19 mars 2012 - 02:34 .

[MikoDoll]

Merkar wrote...

BioWare did come out with false advertisement prior to game release. They should be held accountable by consumers but not in this way. It is at most another way to get attention to the issue and is another reason why BioWare should man up instead of letting things burn uncontrollably. Empty statements are obviously not enough this time.

BioWare crossed a line with the endings and some consumers are taking their example to the letter.

It's not that I think that this was the wrong way to do it. I think the only thing unfortunate was the timing. If they went a month or so without so much as a statement as to how they'll officially respond I'd be considering it.

[Teacher50]

MikoDoll wrote...

Merkar wrote...

BioWare did come out with false advertisement prior to game release. They should be held accountable by consumers but not in this way. It is at most another way to get attention to the issue and is another reason why BioWare should man up instead of letting things burn uncontrollably. Empty statements are obviously not enough this time.

BioWare crossed a line with the endings and some consumers are taking their example to the letter.

It's not that I think that this was the wrong way to do it. I think the only thing unfortunate was the timing. If they went a month or so without so much as a statement as to how they'll officially respond I'd be considering it.

Have you considered the time for action is now before the passion dies? Just asking.

[Farbautisonn]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

Wolder88 wrote...

The hater logic is rather funny...

Someone stole your bag? who cares, the police has more important stuff to do.

You got sick from eating contaminated food? Who cares, the doctors have more important stuff to do.

The people you work for doesn't pay you the wage you're entitled? Who cares, the financial department has more important stuff to do.

The system is there for a reason. If you want people to respect the big laws you have to enforce the smaller ones too.

This ^^^

All of the haters' logic are flawed as they are actually ignorant as to what is and isn't in the jurisdiction of the FTC, as well as what filing a complaint with them actually means.

It is a legal action but not one that will involve the courts. All the FTC will do is place either an embargo or levy against EA until they stop doing shady business and using false advertising as well as misleading press to sell games.

Does it cost EA money? Yes, it would. A lot if they were found in violation of law and unethical business practice. But does it doom them? No, even though I would like EA to go up in flames. EA still has the ability to appeal the decision after a given amount of time, and keep appealing after that.

But here is what completely baffles me. How are you people ok with being lied to? How are you ok with a business that employs an anti-piracy tactic that actually only hurts paying customers and PROMOTES piracy?

How are any of you ok with what EA has done over the past 20 years? EA has always been the dark horse of video game world that has corrupted and turned it away from making great quality games to cookie-cutter garbage and turned the game industry into more about making a buck than making something great?

Even Hollywood isn't as bad as the game industry.

-And this!

[AydinPaladin]

It's pretty simple really.
A company advertises one thing and sells another. This could be identified as false advertising or legitimate puffery and is a crime. It is a type of psychological marketing manipulation.

The FTC is not the only organization that defines this types of manipulation as a crime, PRSSA also views this as a disingenuous and immoral business practice. PRSSA views this as a serious infraction of the moral obligations and CSR of an organization. The FTC sees this as a very real crime.
If you think psychological manipulation is not a crime, please read up on how marketing, advertising and PR began based on manipulation and misinformation. You will understand precisely why these infractions are considered a major offense.

BioWare can still get in trouble with the FTC because they sell their product in the USA.

I don't necessarily think this was the best course of action, but I can see the logic behind the report. It's not insane, it actually has a legal and moral basis in fact.

[MikoDoll]

Teacher50 wrote...

MikoDoll wrote...

Merkar wrote...

BioWare did come out with false advertisement prior to game release. They should be held accountable by consumers but not in this way. It is at most another way to get attention to the issue and is another reason why BioWare should man up instead of letting things burn uncontrollably. Empty statements are obviously not enough this time.

BioWare crossed a line with the endings and some consumers are taking their example to the letter.

It's not that I think that this was the wrong way to do it. I think the only thing unfortunate was the timing. If they went a month or so without so much as a statement as to how they'll officially respond I'd be considering it.

Have you considered the time for action is now before the passion dies? Just asking.

I'm considering how long it'd take before the passion would die out for other moves being taken like the charity drive. You take it to the FTC when those aren't evoking a response. Let the heat pan out over a long period of time and give the cause short and long term goals. Give Bioware an understanding that you have plans to raise the level of heat if the kinder actions aren't being taken. I think what needs to happen is a widespread plan of WHEN to do this, and to acknowledge the person filing the initial complaint as an idea for what to do after all other options do not provoke a response from Bioware.

[Teacher50]

Farbautisonn wrote...

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

Wolder88 wrote...

The hater logic is rather funny...

Someone stole your bag? who cares, the police has more important stuff to do.

You got sick from eating contaminated food? Who cares, the doctors have more important stuff to do.

The people you work for doesn't pay you the wage you're entitled? Who cares, the financial department has more important stuff to do.

The system is there for a reason. If you want people to respect the big laws you have to enforce the smaller ones too.

This ^^^

All of the haters' logic are flawed as they are actually ignorant as to what is and isn't in the jurisdiction of the FTC, as well as what filing a complaint with them actually means.

It is a legal action but not one that will involve the courts. All the FTC will do is place either an embargo or levy against EA until they stop doing shady business and using false advertising as well as misleading press to sell games.

Does it cost EA money? Yes, it would. A lot if they were found in violation of law and unethical business practice. But does it doom them? No, even though I would like EA to go up in flames. EA still has the ability to appeal the decision after a given amount of time, and keep appealing after that.

But here is what completely baffles me. How are you people ok with being lied to? How are you ok with a business that employs an anti-piracy tactic that actually only hurts paying customers and PROMOTES piracy?

How are any of you ok with what EA has done over the past 20 years? EA has always been the dark horse of video game world that has corrupted and turned it away from making great quality games to cookie-cutter garbage and turned the game industry into more about making a buck than making something great?

Even Hollywood isn't as bad as the game industry.

-And this!

Having gone this route myself, I can say that it only works if a large number of people take the same approach. Another thought would be is it for public attention... i.e. media.

But only you and your convictions can lead you down what paths to take...

[Mike Shepard]

OK @ the guy who quoted me...I get it. People are mad about the game. It's about high expectations and the game didn't meet them. Guess what, that's your problem not the FTC's. Based on that, I had high expectations for the Boston Red Sox in 2011. And in September 2011 they fell apart. They went down slowly and steadily. it was like watching the freaking hindenberg. KABOOM! followed by a gentle fall. Based on them failing to deliver on what they advertised--that they wouldn't stop until they "restored order," I could sue them for the return of my season ticket money. Except it doesn't work like that. No game is going to live up to everything you expect from it. It's like if you haven't had apple pie in a realllllyyy long time and then you have some, and it's not as good as you remembered it, you get sad. But the apple pie is still great. What I'm saying is, this guy was within his rights to file a complaint with the FTC, sure. But it's still insane. Because the Red Sox would have a lot of lawsuits on their hands if you could sue over dissapointment...Eighty-Six years worth, in fact, because from 1918 to 2004 they were always either awful or "so close yet so far". I am not saying, "get over it! Rawr!" just...expectations...

Modifié par Mike Shepard, 19 mars 2012 - 02:55 .

[MikoDoll]

Really though? If even a portion of the people who are submitting to the charities would eventually file a complaint with the FTC that's still a lot of complaints. But again I'd resort to this after:

a. Resonable time for Bioware to give an official response has expired.

b. Other avenues (the charities and trending things like Twitter) have gone without response.


Right now people can start sending their games back for refunds potentially. The person filing the complaint threatened to do this and it would be for the best if consumers found if they could do this. In fact many game retailers have a 7 day warranty. If you completed the game in 7 days you can take it back to some of the retailers. I know Gamestop allows me to do it.

[thunderhawk862002]

Mike Shepard wrote...

OK @ the guy who quoted me...I get it. People are mad about the game. It's about high expectations and the game didn't meet them. Guess what, that's your problem not the FTC's. Based on that, I had high expectations for the Boston Red Sox in 2011. And in September 2011 they fell apart. They went down slowly and steadily. it was like watching the freaking hindenberg. KABOOM! followed by a gentle fall. Based on them failing to deliver on what they advertised--that they wouldn't stop until they "restored order," I could sue them for the return of my season ticket money. Except it doesn't work like that. No game is going to live up to everything you expect from it. It's like if you haven't had apple pie in a realllllyyy long time and then you have some, and it's not as good as you remembered it, you get sad. But the apple pie is still great. What I'm saying is, this guy was within his rights to file a complaint with the FTC, sure. But it's still insane. Because the Red Sox would have a lot of lawsuits on their hands if you could sue over dissapointment...Eighty-Six years worth, in fact, because from 1918 to 2004 they were always either awful or "so close yet so far". I am not saying, "get over it! Rawr!" just...expectations...

So if Jack in the Box uses ingredients that caused food poisoning, and no one died then it's not a big deal right?  It only becomes a big deal when someone dies.  Is that your line of thinking?

[MikoDoll]

Mike Shepard wrote...

OK @ the guy who quoted me...I get it. People are mad about the game. It's about high expectations and the game didn't meet them. Guess what, that's your problem not the FTC's. Based on that, I had high expectations for the Boston Red Sox in 2011. And in September 2011 they fell apart.

That is different. There is a difference between me having expectations that the company did not lead me on to believe would be in the content and then there's me having bought a product because of  expectations I had because the company said those expectations would be met.