228 réponses à ce sujet

[77boy84]

Mad-Hamlet wrote...

What is this whole 'speculation equals good story' mentality in writers these days? Sometimes, SOMETIMES it works, I'll grant you. But not often. Now many writers in major medias do really good work, then fark it all to hell with the last minute inclusion of some 'speculative material'.

Christ, I hope the lesson is learned from this.

Fostering speculation isn't totally bad. Part of the fun of Half Life 2 and it's episodes, for me, was speculating with other fans about what would happen next and the secrets of the setting.

But trying to foster speculation with the ending of your trilogy is unbelievably silly. I'm not sure why they thought that was a good idea.

[Verit]

I don't care how they came up with the ideas for the ending, but what's depressing is that the endings we got were really just as incoherent and poorly thought out as that image suggests.

[Spectre-00N7]

what speculation ?

[RaikonHawke]

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
DANGLY PARTSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ulotooma]

Lozark wrote...

This is how everything went wrong in the space of a page.

None of the other writers looked at this and went "That seems a little slipshod and lazy"??

Yeah, this.  I know they have a team that does QA for bugs and the like.  Didn't they have one for the story?

And I actually think the scribbling meant to reference the ending of the Matrix Reloaded.  You know, where one big fat deus ex machina is introduced into the series with "The Architect?"  Neo goes to a secret area, thinking he will prepare to destroy the machines, only to find out that the machines (and the Matrix) are far older than he can fathom, he is just the latest in many iterations (cycles) and he is given two choices about how to end things.

Sound familiar?  Or the "synthesis" in matrix revolutions where Neo and the Source become one to take out Agent Smith.  Considering that people were a bit icy towards the second Matrix, and outright hostile towards the third, boggles my mind they would look to that as inspiration.

[cinderburster]

I just... Brave New World and the ending of the (first?) Matrix.

I can't even.

Brave New World. Bittersweet?!

Modifié par cinderburster, 19 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[HKR148]

ulotooma wrote...

Lozark wrote...

This is how everything went wrong in the space of a page.

None of the other writers looked at this and went "That seems a little slipshod and lazy"??

Yeah, this.  I know they have a team that does QA for bugs and the like.  Didn't they have one for the story?

And I actually think the scribbling meant to reference the ending of the Matrix Reloaded.  You know, where one big fat deus ex machina is introduced into the series with "The Architect?"  Neo goes to a secret area, thinking he will prepare to destroy the machines, only to find out that the machines (and the Matrix) are far older than he can fathom, he is just the latest in many iterations (cycles) and he is given two choices about how to end things.

Sound familiar?  Or the "synthesis" in matrix revolutions where Neo and the Source become one to take out Agent Smith.  Considering that people were a bit icy towards the second Matrix, and outright hostile towards the third, boggles my mind they would look to that as inspiration.

Most of the current age sci-fi are total garbage. They think what they are doing is original, but they are not. Maybe I'm a conservative person but come on.. respect the basic rule of literature.

[mjb203]

ulotooma wrote...

Lozark wrote...

This is how everything went wrong in the space of a page.

None of the other writers looked at this and went "That seems a little slipshod and lazy"??

Yeah, this.  I know they have a team that does QA for bugs and the like.  Didn't they have one for the story?

And I actually think the scribbling meant to reference the ending of the Matrix Reloaded.  You know, where one big fat deus ex machina is introduced into the series with "The Architect?"  Neo goes to a secret area, thinking he will prepare to destroy the machines, only to find out that the machines (and the Matrix) are far older than he can fathom, he is just the latest in many iterations (cycles) and he is given two choices about how to end things.

Sound familiar?  Or the "synthesis" in matrix revolutions where Neo and the Source become one to take out Agent Smith.  Considering that people were a bit icy towards the second Matrix, and outright hostile towards the third, boggles my mind they would look to that as inspiration.

If I was the QA officer (for story) on this, I would have told him to go back and come up with something that shows a lot more effort.  I often joke with my co-workers that I often want my QA comments to just be "WTF?!", but this would be one instance where that would be more than a totally valid comment... *sigh* 

[ulotooma]

Mad-Hamlet wrote...

What is this whole 'speculation equals good story' mentality in writers these days? Sometimes, SOMETIMES it works, I'll grant you. But not often. Now many writers in major medias do really good work, then fark it all to hell with the last minute inclusion of some 'speculative material'.

Christ, I hope the lesson is learned from this.

Blame the writers of the Sopranos.  They pull off one brilliant move, it becomes massively talked about, and everyone tries to mimic it.  With the Sopranos, it actually worked.  We were essentially uninvited guests in Tony's world.  So at the last second (with hints in all directions of what will happen) they pull the plug, so Tony can live his families life in private.

Everyone saw how much discussion and "speculation" that generated, and everyone has to freakin mimic it.

[nevar00]

I like how it's a big flow chart with every big decision we've made in the game from the Rachni to the Reaper Base to the Quarian/Geth conflict highlighted and written out to show how exactly it will affect the ending.

...oh wait no it's not, none of that stuff is there. Only colors and the Matrix. Oh and 'Lots of speculation from everyone'!

I understand that brainstorming rough drafts can be messy and whatnot but... I just can't believe anyone thought this was going to be a good idea and wasn't completely riddled with plot holes.

[kewken]

This cant be real can it.

Can it?

[xX N7 Xx]

How does it feel?

END OF MATRIX.

Serious Bioware?

[Gedgehog]

Wow...

[K_Tabris]

LMAO...

*tears commence again*

I am about to have another date with Jack. So much for getting attached to my Sheppie. At least JK Rowling had the balls to end the series off with copious amounts of humor and hope.

[Well]

If it is real it could explain the bland and lackluster ending.Oh well.Should of gone to Mickey D's.At least there your choices matter.

[ulotooma]

The PR rep for this documentary was drunk and or high when they agreed to let that scribbled "brainstorming" note make it into the app.

The funny thing is..... it isn't "brainstorming." It is exactly how the ending played out. Worst case scenario? It is "brainstorming" and he really thought the very first idea that found its way in that gray matter between the ears was the best possible ending, and no further work was neccessary.

So it was either a massive prank Bioware pulled on everyone...... or it is true. Which is worse?

[sistersafetypin]

I honest to god shed a few tears when I first finished the game. All the new insults just add fuel to my anger. I'm past the sad phase, only thing left is my anger and the little hope I haven't quite managed to kill yet.

I'm sure another playthrough take care of that hope problem. Which is why I haven't done it yet

Modifié par sistersafetypin, 19 mars 2012 - 01:08 .

[K_Tabris]

Seriously, how bad is it that that is what the lead writer comes up with, while a fan comes up with this


Cmon, Walters, you have proven you can write good stuff, Vega (awesome), ME: Redemption, etc.
lolwut at this silly ending. I feel trolled by Bioware.

[Warden130]

Its from a brain storming session. I don't see the big deal about this.

[SyyRaaaN]

Hahaha. I definitely laughed.

Do you really want an ending DLC? Guys, please wake up, it will suck more than the original one.

Modifié par SyyRaaaN, 19 mars 2012 - 12:56 .

[kidbd15]

It's definitely real, from the iOS app Final Hours of ME3, and it's fine that it's on a note paper... it just sucks they were rushed

[frylock23]

A brainstorming session is fine. The big problem is that they apparently felt their initial brainstorm was SO AWESOME that it was pretty much fine as is.

That is just freakin' sad for a company that used to be known for it's attention to story. You'd think they'd know better.

[bloodshed17]

3 games of dozens upon dozens of choices reduced to a single piece of paper.

[SuperTeal]

Warden130 wrote...

Its from a brain storming session. I don't see the big deal about this.

The big deal is that this is obviously how the game turned out - and the ending is terrible.  I work in film and story development - and when we brainstorm for a short film or an advirtisement we have a similar process to this.  You don't want to see my hand written notes I promise you.  But the difference is we then take those notes and move from there into something that is usually completely different and often times better.

What I see here is brainstorming that went right into final development - I'm sure there was some more notes and flow charts in between - but none of it was complex or involving more than 3 endings, which means they (the devs and writer) were lying to us the entire time about having 16/17 different endings.  In reality this game has 3 endings, that are all based on a repeated theme.

That's the problem with these notes:  They show us exactly how lazy the ending story development was which resulted in the terrible ending we got.

As a side note - anyone who is educated in visual story development knows that you don't use the Matrix trilogy as inspiration, especially the ending of the last film.  That whole series, while it started out good, has so many different plot holes and story issues.  The Matrix was amazing because of it's techincal achievements, not its story.

Modifié par SuperTeal, 19 mars 2012 - 01:15 .

[Shalewind]

Actually, I sighed and said… “Yep…”

It’s not the brainstorming notes that are offensive. It’s the implementation and creation that followed that set of notes that’s the problem. Plot holes aren’t inherently created by brainstorming. All brainstorming sessions have issues – it’s the development after that matters.

Lots of Speculation (thought a nice cute phrase we use for negative association now) is not a bad objective. They simply created the wrong kind of speculation and didn’t take the time to craft it out well.