114 réponses à ce sujet

[Rainen89]

You're saying that it's "hardcore" because it's a consequence but realistically there is no difference in reloading a saved game when you wipe to a boss than there is any other fight. If you want to increase the challenge of the game then handicap yourself. I understand wanting to make the game harder but if that is the case then impose restrictions on yourself, you have to understand though that the "vast majority" of people playing the game aren't thinking of how they can make the game harder, they want to experience it. Frankly it never made sense when anyone would "die" in games because there's always been ressurect spells or items in every game practically.



As it's been said the only difference you're suggesting is that your party members should be "dead" if they fall in battle then ask them to leave the group at camp. If you can't then simply don't invite them along til the opportunity presents itself to make them leave. Or just relaod your last save if someone died.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Perhaps I missed it, but why is dismissing a party member an unacceptable solution?

I'll tell you how it's unacceptible if you tell me how it's "a solution".

[marshalleck]

Nathair Nimheil wrote...

Perhaps I missed it, but why is dismissing a party member an unacceptable solution?

I'll tell you how it's unacceptible if you tell me how it's "a solution".

That's ridiculous. How is it not? You never have them in your adventuring group again. It's the same functionality and doesn't require developer intervention.

Now, why is that unacceptable?

Modifié par marshalleck, 29 novembre 2009 - 08:23 .

[Nathair Nimheil]

If you want to increase the challenge of the game then handicap yourself. I understand wanting to make the game harder but if that is the case then impose restrictions on yourself, you have to understand though that the "vast majority" of people playing the game aren't thinking of how they can make the game harder, they want to experience it. Frankly it never made sense when anyone would "die" in games because there's always been ressurect spells or items in every game practically.

So why are there different difficulty levels? Why isn't there just "EASY" and instructions to "handicap yourself"  if that's too easy for you?

And, again, why the hell would you care? If you're not gonna play in the Nightmare+ difficulty level with the hardcore options turned on what difference does it make to you if I do?

[F-C]

ever watch the movie 300, and see the scene after the first battle before he goes and meets up with Xerxes? where they are going across the field killing the wounded soldiers who are laying on the ground? its the same basic concept.

[Mnemnosyne]

Honestly, given the way the game is set up I would be just as, if not even more happy with an approval penalty for each time a party member falls in battle. Somewhere between -5 and -20 approval (depending on difficulty setting) when a party member falls would be awesome, because it would make the most sense, without limiting the game in a way that might be a little too much, considering the relatively small number of available companions.

It also makes for very good logic - anytime they fall, it's pretty much your fault because they're following your orders. If I'm knocked out and a hair from death under someone's command, I'm going to think less of their ability to command and lead. If it happens often, I don't think I'm going to want to fight under their leadership anymore.

The best thing about this sort of penalty is it's more likely to be the kind of penalty you accept and move on with, rather than reloading every single time.

[marshalleck]

Yeah, I see you edited your other post before I had written my response, krullstar. I see what you're saying now.



I still maintain that permadeath is pointless as long as it can be circumvented by a reload. I am not arguing that people shouldn't be able to play like that if they like; just that making it easy to get around greatly lessens its impact on gameplay.

[Nathair Nimheil]

That's ridiculous. How is it not? You never have them in your adventuring group again. It's the same functionality and doesn't require developer intervention.

Now, why is that unacceptable?

Because the request was not for a method to pretend there was a hardcore mode.

It totally breaks immersion to have a little chat with Morrigan after the fight and tell her that she's simu-dead now and has to leave the camp. It's the difference between bullets and paintball.

[Rainen89]

I don't know? I don't care if you play on nightmare so I have no idea why you shoot to be defensive. Nightmare is just more boss damage, longer CC, higher resists and whatnot. Yes it would have made sense for nightmare to have bigger death penalties but they didn't. So instead of complaining you can impose restrictions as many people do to increase the difficulty of the game. Don't think you're the only one who can pull off nightmare, it's really not that hard. So what can you do, well you can play without wynne, try playing without one mage. If you play a mage try playing w/o arcane warrior. Etc there are many things you can do to increase the difficulty rather than complaining the devs didn't do it. Yes they should have, no they didn't. End of story.

Modifié par Rainen89, 29 novembre 2009 - 08:33 .

[Rainen89]

Koyasha wrote...

Honestly, given the way the game is set up I would be just as, if not even more happy with an approval penalty for each time a party member falls in battle. Somewhere between -5 and -20 approval (depending on difficulty setting) when a party member falls would be awesome, because it would make the most sense, without limiting the game in a way that might be a little too much, considering the relatively small number of available companions.
It also makes for very good logic - anytime they fall, it's pretty much your fault because they're following your orders. If I'm knocked out and a hair from death under someone's command, I'm going to think less of their ability to command and lead. If it happens often, I don't think I'm going to want to fight under their leadership anymore.
The best thing about this sort of penalty is it's more likely to be the kind of penalty you accept and move on with, rather than reloading every single time.

Personally I like your idea more than the "dying" scenario just because it makes a bit more sense since you are supposed to be the leader and I doubt everyone enjoys being the sacrificial lamb. Also I believe why people can't "die" when they get knocked out is because of Boom plot device. But again, it's an option that could probably be enabled by toolset if you really try.

[marshalleck]

Nathair Nimheil wrote...

That's ridiculous. How is it not? You never have them in your adventuring group again. It's the same functionality and doesn't require developer intervention.

Now, why is that unacceptable?

Because the request was not for a method to pretend there was a hardcore mode.

It totally breaks immersion to have a little chat with Morrigan after the fight and tell her that she's simu-dead now and has to leave the camp. It's the difference between bullets and paintball.

Does it have to be death? Why can't it be they are injured so badly they can no longer fight?

Death or permanent incapacitation, the impact on the gameplay is no different--they are not in your adventuring group.

[marshalleck]

I'm not saying people have to play like I do, and that there shouldn't be consequences for a character falling in battle. I just see logical errors in most of what has been proposed thus far.



The only argument I can see against what I am saying is the occasions when the game forces you to take a character with you. But I hate that just as much and wish it were gone.

[Nathair Nimheil]

Does it have to be death? Why can't it be they are injured so badly they can no longer fight?

Death or permanent incapacitation, the impact on the gameplay is no different--they are not in your adventuring group.

That would be fine with me. I would just like it to be harder and more hard core. I'm a big kid now and I'd like to take the training wheels off.

[Noin_dwarf]

Precious party members dying was pretty terrifying in Baldur's Gate 1/2. Not only would you have to backtrack (if you din't have a mighty cleric) miles to a temple carrying a pretty heavy gorey corpse, but if the enemy petrified or DISINTEGRATED a man then that was it.



Minsc got disintegrated once. And Aerie once(ha!) got petrified... oh...



Needless to say I was *very* careful. In DA I will occasionally sacrifice a man (or woman) for the greater good, because hell they get right back up. In other games you bet your ass we'd've start running!

I would love to see such thing in DAO! But it's not gonna happen

It was half of the fun in BG battles and made much deeper immersion - how after battle with shadow dragon i should been carry on backs of 3 lads, survived epic battle, all the stuff of dead ones.. I didn't have enough space i must been throw on the floor some equipment. After that i had hard time trying to reach any temple without problems, which, though, were everywhere

Be cause of that i loved bg so much, not only for story and characters...

Once i even must been to leave petrified Jan Jansen (my favourite one) in house of mad wizard who did it, and make a long way to find any scroll to undone such accident, be cause my last save was about 5 hours before that happened.. Ahhhh, nostalgia

[marshalleck]

Nathair Nimheil wrote...

Does it have to be death? Why can't it be they are injured so badly they can no longer fight?

Death or permanent incapacitation, the impact on the gameplay is no different--they are not in your adventuring group.

That would be fine with me. I would just like it to be harder and more hard core. I'm a big kid now and I'd like to take the training wheels off.

Again--you can. You only rarely are forced to take characters with you. Much of the game is soloable if you want.

You don't even have to tell characters to leave your camp. Just don't take them with you from the party selection screen.

I don't begrudge you for wanting challenge.

Modifié par marshalleck, 29 novembre 2009 - 08:44 .

[Nathair Nimheil]

You only rarely are forced to take characters with you. Much of the game is soloable if you want.

You don't even have to tell characters to leave your camp. Just don't take them with you from the party selection screen.

I don't begrudge you for wanting challenge.

Which urinates all over immersion. (As we keep pointing out to you, again and again.)

[lorderon99999]

marshalleck wrote...

OgrynFlesh wrote...

Precious party members dying was pretty terrifying in Baldur's Gate 1/2. Not only would you have to backtrack (if you din't have a mighty cleric) miles to a temple carrying a pretty heavy gorey corpse, but if the enemy petrified or DISINTEGRATED a man then that was it.

Minsc got disintegrated once. And Aerie once(ha!) got petrified... oh...

A meaningless mechanic which was thoroughly neutralized by the mighty "RELOAD" spell, if I remember correctly.

Rose-tinted lenses, etc.

Actually not really...because sometime you realoaded a battle 20 times because it was really hard and then you finnaly succed but lost a party member permenatly and you had to live with the lost.....Plays with the emotions and playing with emotions makes a good game

[F-C]

well the way its currently set up is more realistic than just permanent death the first time your character hits 0 hit points. in battles in those days most people who went down wernt really dead, they were just too injured to continue fighting. if they had actually recieved medical treatment in time a lot of them would have survived.



thats why you have movies like 300 depicting them going across the field after the battle and killing off all the wounded soldiers laying on the ground, they arnt really dead yet. they are just laying there bleeding and wounded, unable to fight.



most the time in battle if someone goes down you would move on to the next active enemy that is a real threat and not waste time stabbing the helpless guy on the ground to make sure hes really dead. there is plenty of time for that after the fight is over.

[marshalleck]

Nathair Nimheil wrote...

You only rarely are forced to take characters with you. Much of the game is soloable if you want.

You don't even have to tell characters to leave your camp. Just don't take them with you from the party selection screen.

I don't begrudge you for wanting challenge.

Which urinates all over immersion. (As we keep pointing out to you, again and again.)

You'll have to pardon me if I find arguments from "immersion" disingenuous. There are many mechanics in this game that "break immersion."

Why when I have a camp full of NPCs, am I limited to taking only three along with me?