114 réponses à ce sujet

[GN-Lelldorianx]

I think that's some pretty good game design, and sadly was not thought of when they made the game (or implemented).

Non-communicative Commander: Can this refer to something like a trap? For example, the party member (under your control or not) runs over a foot-snare or tripline, even though you could see it.

What about another one (or substitute):



Self-Important (Or something to do with greed)

Your companion fell in battle under your control, and you never let them use a Health Poultice.



Master of Injuries

Your companion has accumulated 2 or more injuries without the use of an injury kit in between each one.



Cannon Fodder (or Sacrificial Scapegoat)

Party member battled (and fell to) a threat-level NPC without the aid of an ally.

[Faerell Gustani]

Sure, I mean, these were just ideas I cooked up on the fly.



Something I forgot is a "friendly fire" one. An ally falls in a combat where you hit them with friendly fire.

Sure, this doesn't apply to warriors and rogues (without poison bombs), but hey, that would actually put some RP aspect into the game right? Mages are supposed to be powerful, but also dangerous to their friends. Here's a consequence for that power.

[Wrektem]

The frustration bourne from willfully dismissing a character you RP as "dead" compared to loosing characters in a cloud of giblets ala Baldur's Gate is minor.



Of course it does spoil things if the ending credits show the future of your party member's and the "dead" character is shown in a cottage with a wife and 15 kids. I just started so I can't weigh in beyond my initial comparison

[adam_nox]

you guys would be really good at sucking the fun out of games.

[Khumak]

JKoopman wrote...
Some (most) people play games for enjoyment, relaxation, and stress relief, not to masochistically have their ass kicked by something that's ostensibly supposed to be entertainment just so they can brag about their "accomplishment" to their friends. All ultra-extreme and frustrating death penalties do is cause those people
to give up and go do other things with their time, which I suppose is fine if you want gaming (specifically PC gaming) to go the way of the comic book industry circa 1990 where the fanbase became so cloistered and introverted that it scared away most potential new fans and slowly collapsed in on itself. It's sad that I can see it happening already.

Asking for an "extreme" difficulty mode is one thing, but to bemoan how far gaming has "fallen" simply because being downed in combat doesn't result in perma-death or you don't have to repeat a boss encounter 10 times to survive it smacks of the same elitism that nearly killed my other childhood hobby. Rather, I look at it as a positive sign of how far gaming has come since the days of Donkey Kong and Prince of Persia that it no longer has to rely on contrived penalties and frustratingly difficult encounters to pad out gameplay.

I don't think anyone asking for a hardcore mode is advocating the elimination of the easy difficulty modes, they just want a hard one that's actually hard without having to use self imposed "house rules" to handicap themselves.  This isn't really a DAO complaint though, it's a valid complaint for almost all CRPGs.  Once you figure out the mechanics, most RPGs are easy even on the hardest level. 

BG is a perfect example of a game that someone unfamiliar with the mechanics would think was very hard on the hardest level while someone who knew the mechanics could easily breeze through the game on the hardest level.  Thus spawned mods like Tactics and IA that pushed the game to the other extreme where you were almost guaranteed to fail unless you micromanaged every single fight and used specific cheesey combos to get past them.

For most of the hard core gamers, getting your ass handed to you every other fight and having to figure out a way to get past it, IS what's fun.

Modifié par Khumak, 01 décembre 2009 - 12:33 .

[0mar]

All perma-death was, for any character, was a quick trip the save game list and a reload. Very few people actually accepted what happened to them. Losing a decked out mage/warrior was game breaking, to the point where you could not finish the game.



I much prefer this system, thank you very much.

[Faerell Gustani]

Khumak wrote...

JKoopman wrote...
Some (most) people play games for enjoyment, relaxation, and stress relief, not to masochistically have their ass kicked by something that's ostensibly supposed to be entertainment just so they can brag about their "accomplishment" to their friends. All ultra-extreme and frustrating death penalties do is cause those people
to give up and go do other things with their time, which I suppose is fine if you want gaming (specifically PC gaming) to go the way of the comic book industry circa 1990 where the fanbase became so cloistered and introverted that it scared away most potential new fans and slowly collapsed in on itself. It's sad that I can see it happening already.

Asking for an "extreme" difficulty mode is one thing, but to bemoan how far gaming has "fallen" simply because being downed in combat doesn't result in perma-death or you don't have to repeat a boss encounter 10 times to survive it smacks of the same elitism that nearly killed my other childhood hobby. Rather, I look at it as a positive sign of how far gaming has come since the days of Donkey Kong and Prince of Persia that it no longer has to rely on contrived penalties and frustratingly difficult encounters to pad out gameplay.

I don't think anyone asking for a hardcore mode is advocating the elimination of the easy difficulty modes, they just want a hard one that's actually hard without having to use self imposed "house rules" to handicap themselves.  This isn't really a DAO complaint though, it's a valid complaint for almost all CRPGs.  Once you figure out the mechanics, most RPGs are easy even on the hardest level. 

BG is a perfect example of a game that someone unfamiliar with the mechanics would think was very hard on the hardest level while someone who knew the mechanics could easily breeze through the game on the hardest level.  Thus spawned mods like Tactics and IA that pushed the game to the other extreme where you were almost guaranteed to fail unless you micromanaged every single fight and used specific cheesey combos to get past them.

For most of the hard core gamers, getting your ass handed to you every other fight and having to figure out a way to get past it, IS what's fun.

+1
I couldn't have said it better.

[Warrcry13]

Here is a fix for everyone make it a toggle. Check a box you want for any difficulty. The option would be under gameplay and you just click the little box and boom perma deaths.

[GN-Lelldorianx]

Warrcry13 wrote...

Here is a fix for everyone make it a toggle. Check a box you want for any difficulty. The option would be under gameplay and you just click the little box and boom perma deaths.

Fail, way to say what I said pages ago.
I'm sick of this - reasoning with you people is like Duncan's beard - simply something that cannot be fathomed by mortals.

[Sylixe]

krullstar wrote...

Battling NPC on a bridge.  3 group members went down.  Hopeless situation, so I ran away.  NPC chased me.  Entered Lothering Village and the NPC gave up the chase.  My downed members came back to life, running towards my location on the far side of the 'area'.  As they did, they encountered villagers who wanted to battle me, game cut to video scene, next thing I know, my main character was warped to a new location.

I have had many awkward things happen when battles move away from downed members.  Personally, I think death should be relevant in this game.  If you prevail in a battle but lose a member, then they are gone.  If that sounds too harsh at least put some provision that after so many times down they leave you cause your leadership sucks.

Games without consequence, lose a considerable element of tension/excitement etc.  We already have save features that enable us to backtrack and do right where we went wrong but to have this kind of 'ability' in the game itself - is a minus not a plus.

Anyway, after hours and hours of game play, testing etc I think my comments are all done. 

That kind of game won't sell all that many units.

[Darpaek]

BLEH. Real death is overrated.



I've been going for the "Never died" achievement in my current playthru and I just got to the endgame - and I'll tell ya what, it's been less than fun reloading every few battles because my character went down.



You're really not missing much.

[GN-Lelldorianx]

Darpaek wrote...

BLEH. Real death is overrated.

I've been going for the "Never died" achievement in my current playthru and I just got to the endgame - and I'll tell ya what, it's been less than fun reloading every few battles because my character went down.

You're really not missing much.

Is there an achivement for that?  I was wondering about that  I got the 'didn't fall during origin' one, though.

[Darpaek]

Just finished the playthru. Apparently not. There is the Didn't Fall During Origin, and There is a Didn't Fall During Ostagar. Apparently, I've been putting up with all this BS for no reason.



Unless the shade in the Brecilian Forest counts as a "death." That would REALLY upset me if I went through all the pain in the butt to be screwed by that.

[GN-Lelldorianx]

I would think it would count by injuries, do you have 0 injuries? I looked through a few achievement lists, didn't see any specific to not dying ever.

[Volourn]

Lack of death? Weird. I died a lot more in DA than in BG2. *shrug*