146 réponses à ce sujet

[GiBBsBoT05]

"LT Commander" and Major are the same rank of different branches.  Only Naval branches use "Commander" as a rank (Commander is also a designation - you are assigned a commander, although they may be a different rank than "Commander")

Most other branches use "Lt. Colonel" in place of "Commander".

Alenko is a Major while Ashley is a LTC, but they are still the same rank if the ranks go by US Military ranks still. The only difference is they are in a different branch of service - Ashley in the Navy and Alenko in the Army, Marines or Airforce.

However, I do not know how Alliance Military ranks work, so it could be entirely different.

Modifié par GiBBsBoT05, 19 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[DrDetective]

GiBBsBoT05 wrote...

LT Commander and Major are the same rank of different branches.

Nope.

[LadyofRivendell]

The amount of character bashing in this thread saddens me.

[GiBBsBoT05]

DrDetective wrote...

GiBBsBoT05 wrote...

LT Commander and Major are the same rank of different branches.

Nope.

Yus. They are both O-4.

Shepard is O-5. He is a Commander, not Lt. Commander.

[sistersafetypin]

Skypezee wrote...

If I remember correctly, Kaidan even outranked Shepard in ME2 because he was promoted to Staff Commander whereas Shepard is only Lieutenant Commander. Then in ME3 he became Major and by Alliance Military standards, yes he out ranks Shepard (again).

By ME3 Ashley is the same rank as Shepard.

Only difference is that Shepard is still a badass for being an N7 since according to the lore, even if you were an N1 you gain a lot of respect due to the program being ridiculously tough.

Still, Shepard's the one who is in command of the Normandy so regardless of rank he/she is the commanding officer over Kaidan/Ashley.

Wait what? In ME1 Shepard is promoted to Commander when she gets control of the Normandy. The only time she's called LTC By Anderson is at the very beginning of ME1 in the Prologue.

[DrDetective]

GiBBsBoT05 wrote...

DrDetective wrote...

GiBBsBoT05 wrote...

LT Commander and Major are the same rank of different branches.

Nope.

Yus. They are both O-4.

Shepard is O-5. He is a Commander, not Lt. Commander.

Is that in the U.S. military?  Because that's not what we're dealing with.  Systems Alliance doesn't have the same rank system.

[sistersafetypin]

Andy379 wrote...

You know humanity is desperate when they promote people like Kaiden. Would have been good to shoot him and Udina.

Awesome, glad I'm not the only one that couldn't stand him

[SaladinDheonqar]

From the ME wiki:

ENLISTED
    Serviceman 3rd class/Private 2nd class
    Serviceman 2nd class/Private 1st class
    Serviceman 1st class/Corporal

NCOs
    Service Chief
    Gunnery Chief
    Operations Chief

OFFICERS
    2nd Lieutenant
    1st Lieutenant
    Staff Lieutenant
    Lieutenant Commander
    Staff Commander
    Captain/Major
    Rear Admiral/General
    Admiral
    Fleet Admiral

There is no 'Commander' rank in the Alliance, and I've never heard anyone call Shepard a Staff Commander either. I'm almost 100% sure he was a Lt.Commander in ME1 and don't really remember him being promoted since. It makes sense though. As a Spectre, I don't think he was eligible for promotions or really needed one. He had all the clearance/resources he needed. So it makes sense if he wasn't promoted after the events of ME1. After he came back in ME2, you could forgive the Alliance for not promoting him after working with Cerberus. After that, well, he blew up a relay and was grounded by the Alliance, so I don't really see him being handed any medals. So yes, Major Alenko does outrank Lt.Commander Shepard in the Alliance, but on the Normandy, Shepard is the Commanding Officer and thus outranks Alenko. Oh, I don't know if Spectres have ranks, but Shepard certainly has senority over Kaiden in ME3.

Modifié par SaladinDheonqar, 19 mars 2012 - 01:55 .

[ahandsomeshark]

I'm kind of mad Shepard never got a promotion. I mean they couldn't even bump him up one rank for saving the galaxy in ME1? What did Kaidan do to get bumped up like 3 ranks in a little over 2 years. I'm pretty sure he didn't save any Citadels. He couldn't even save Horizon.

[GiBBsBoT05]

DrDetective wrote...

GiBBsBoT05 wrote...

DrDetective wrote...

GiBBsBoT05 wrote...

LT Commander and Major are the same rank of different branches.

Nope.

Yus. They are both O-4.

Shepard is O-5. He is a Commander, not Lt. Commander.

Is that in the U.S. military?  Because that's not what we're dealing with.  Systems Alliance doesn't have the same rank system.

Yes. That is what I said. You didn't quote everything I wrote I guess...

Regardles, a Lt. Commander is not the same rank as Commander, but there isn't any military on earth that I know of that a Major is above or below an Lt. CMDR, but almost universaly a Major is below a Commander.

BUT I DUNNO HOW ALLIANCE MILITARY RANK WORKS.

Modifié par GiBBsBoT05, 19 mars 2012 - 01:58 .

[getterg]

Kaidan outranks Shepard but Shep is still the boss since the normandy is his ship

[sistersafetypin]

Insidiae wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Kaiden may technically be higher rank according to the Alliance, but they're both Spectres. Spectre kind of overrides everything else. As mentioned before, Shep outranks Hackett.

Thinking like that is quite illogical. Just because they are spectres does not mean they can tell the alliance militairy what to do. The spectres (and with it the council) and the alliance are two sepperate origanisations and therefore do not answer to each other in any way.

- I might add since shepard and kaiden are a "member" of both, they individually have to deal with both.

But the whole point of Shep getting the Normandy is... Anderson quote: "As a Specter, you can't answer to anyone but the Council. So I'm going to step down." [Did that bit from memory so may be a teensy bit off word wise]

[GiBBsBoT05]

sistersafetypin wrote...

Insidiae wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Kaiden may technically be higher rank according to the Alliance, but they're both Spectres. Spectre kind of overrides everything else. As mentioned before, Shep outranks Hackett.

Thinking like that is quite illogical. Just because they are spectres does not mean they can tell the alliance militairy what to do. The spectres (and with it the council) and the alliance are two sepperate origanisations and therefore do not answer to each other in any way.

- I might add since shepard and kaiden are a "member" of both, they individually have to deal with both.

But the whole point of Shep getting the Normandy is... Anderson quote: "As a Specter, you can't answer to anyone but the Council. So I'm going to step down." [Did that bit from memory so may be a teensy bit off word wise]

True, but I remember Hackett told shepard, "Remeber you are still human and a member of the Alliance."

I don't think a Spectere makes you King of the Military. It might be like how James Bond was a Commader in the RNF but became a 00 agent.

[DrDetective]

GiBBsBoT05 wrote...

DrDetective wrote...

GiBBsBoT05 wrote...

DrDetective wrote...

GiBBsBoT05 wrote...

LT Commander and Major are the same rank of different branches.

Nope.

Yus. They are both O-4.

Shepard is O-5. He is a Commander, not Lt. Commander.

Is that in the U.S. military?  Because that's not what we're dealing with.  Systems Alliance doesn't have the same rank system.

Yes. That is what I said. You didn't quote everything I wrote I guess...

Regardles, a Lt. Commander is not the same rank as Commander, but there isn't any military on earth that I know of that a Major is above or below an Lt. CMDR, but almost universaly a Major is below a Commander.

BUT I DUNNO HOW ALLIANCE MILITARY RANK WORKS.

You may have edited your post after I quoted you...  Not sure.  Everything we know about the ranks of the Alliance has already been posted, I think.

[LukeSkywhacker2]

GiBBsBoT05 wrote...

DrDetective wrote...

GiBBsBoT05 wrote...

LT Commander and Major are the same rank of different branches.

Nope.

Yus. They are both O-4.

Shepard is O-5. He is a Commander, not Lt. Commander.

ME is not real life. Both ME1 and ME2 contain a codex entry or some other piece of text detailing Alliance military ranks. One of those is the "Staff Commander", which is Shepard's actual rank as per ME1, and which does not exist in real life (obviously). Marine Major is listed as counterpart of Navy Captain and there is no such thing as colonel (promotion from major would need to be to rear admiral). Thus Kaidan would outrank Shepard and would be basically the equal of... Hannah Shepard before she finally accepted promotion.

As many folks already know, in rare situations a mission subordinate can actually be of a higher rank than his commanding officer. This is typically the case with non-line officers like medics or chaplains. Actually, this could happen to a real life marine officer because he just can't take over the command of a proper ship even if he's the senior remaining officer onboard.

Shepard's situation is unique. If he's still a Spectre, then he basically outranks everybody regardless (the extent of being able to pull rank is a different thing). If not, then he's a guy whose paygrade is badly in need of update, which can't be addressed in present conditions.

Nathan_41 wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Kaiden was already LC in ME2, so doesn't he outrank shepard now?

are there any scenes in the game where kaiden mentions being shepard's superior?

ps. Kaiden becomes a spectre too, at which point he should be addressed "sir" by Shepard.

On paper, it at first seems that he should outrank Shepard, but its not that simple. 

I think once Spectre status gets involved, military rank kind of goes out the window. As a Spectre neither Admiral Hackett nor any other Alliance officer has any real legal authority over Shepard, who answers directly to the Citadel Council. Frankly, if you had your Spectre status reinstated in ME2, its a bit of a plothole that Shepard could even be arrested and tried by Alliance officials for the events of 'Arrival'. 
And once Kaidan gets instated as a Spectre himself, his military rank becomes purely symbolic. If a Spectre is not legally compelled to follow the directions of anyone other than the Council, then they technically aren't actively serving in the military. All that matters is that they are both Spectres, and that Shepard has seniority, I would presume.

 

Yeah, Spectres are explicitly outside any chain of command. Not above it, and they can't really bark orders at the brass of any race's military (I guess ordering junior to mid officers around would be fine but not generals or admirals unless situation would somehow warrant it), but they don't answer to them either.

And yes, it's beyond me how Alliance could arrest Shepard without getting a green light from the Council, except if Shepard voluntarily turned himself in (this was one of the options suggested in Arrival). On the other hand, I can hardly imagine the Council not giving that green light in Shepard's case. In fact, that's lucky compared to a multi-race trial, let alone anything to do with Batarians.

Modifié par LukeSkywhacker2, 19 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[LukeSkywhacker2]

cndman wrote...

but im pretty sure in the navy, you would not be addressed "commander" if you are a lt commander

It's a bit like dropping "deputy", "vice", "assistant/associate" etc. from civilian titles. In formal situations or in the holder's own mouth, this would always be "lieutenant commander" but on the intercom it'd be "commander X" unless someone really insistent on being correct. Please note generals and admirals in real life rarely get addressed or referred to as anything other than "general" or "admiral", even though it takes four stars to become a full general or admiral (in the US).

LadyofRivendell wrote...

Wait a minute, why did "Captain Bailey" get "promoted" to "Commander Bailey"?

 

Dunno, which military was the guy in? Some countries hold army and navy captains as equals, they add stuff between captain and admiral, e.g. Polish navy "commander" is O-6, while "captain" is O-3, German and French navy have several different types of captains. This results in a mess when JAG is aired.

[calis_riakel]

Kaidan? The guy who died on Virmire?

[Nykara]

Insidiae wrote...

Nathan_41 wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...





Kaiden was already LC in ME2, so doesn't he outrank shepard now?

are there any scenes in the game where kaiden mentions being shepard's superior?

ps. Kaiden becomes a spectre too, at which point he should be addressed "sir" by Shepard.

On paper, it at first seems that he should outrank Shepard, but its not that simple.

I think once Spectre status gets involved, military rank kind of goes out the window. As a Spectre neither Admiral Hackett nor any other Alliance officer has any real legal authority over Shepard, who answers directly to the Citadel Council. Frankly, if you had your Spectre status reinstated in ME2, its a bit of a plothole that Shepard could even be arrested and tried by Alliance officials for the events of 'Arrival'.
And once Kaidan gets instated as a Spectre himself, his military rank becomes purely symbolic. If a Spectre is not legally compelled to follow the directions of anyone other than the Council, then they technically aren't actively serving in the military. All that matters is that they are both Spectres, and that Shepard has seniority, I would presume.

Just because they are spectres does not mean they don't have to follow the alliance rules and/or orders for as long they are serving the alliance. They are still connected and don't stand "above" the alliance. So no their titles are not symbolic and they are still serving the military.

Not true, Anderson says as much when Shepard is first given the ship. They can only suggest that Shep follow the alliance regs they can not force it. Anderson: "Your a spectre now you don't answer to us"

[jkflipflopDAO]

Insidiae wrote...


Just because they are spectres does not mean they don't have to follow the alliance rules and/or orders for as long they are serving the alliance. They are still connected and don't stand "above" the alliance. So no their titles are not symbolic and they are still serving the military.

Uh, that's exactly what it means. They no longer answer to anyone in the galaxy but the council. They are individuals whos actions elevate them above the rank and file. Galactic law no longer applies to them.

[Demangel]

From what I understand, once you reach a certain rank, say Captain for example - you technically might outrank a liutenantfor example, but your rank doesn't give you the authority to just order people around will nilly.

So in this case, if Kaiden DOES outrank Shepard (which I don't think he does), he may not have direct command over him meaning his rank doesn't convey for him anything more than due respect.  

In fact if your a Non Combat soldier, and you boss around an experienced combat officer just because you outrank them, your actions can be reviewed and you can be in trouble if your orders end up being faulted for screwing up the mission.

Really, a special operative, like a specter would be given the minimum rank required to be AUTONOMOUS. That is, to be allowed to handle an operation as they see fit, taking only their general direction from the higher ranks.

For example - Shepard, your mission is to kill Saren.

Thats an order, he must obey.

But in getting that job done, he would have the authority to pursue it his own way.

IF a superior officer gave him a countermanding order, he would need to refer back to the orriginal order. So if Admiral hacket said Do X, Even if Kaiden outranked him, he couldn't just tell him to DO Y instead.

However I'm unclear on whether Shepard could boss Kaiden around...

Only think I know for sure is that very often specialists are given higher ranks because they need to operate autonomously.

A medic, A Special Weapons unit, A Tank commander and his crew, A fighter pilot.

A low ranking soldier cannot make the kinds of judgement calls necessary for these situations without direction from above. An Admiral could not for example ORDER a captain Medic to perform a surgery a certain way. Even though he technically has the rank that gives him authority. If he did, he would be in deep trouble... theoretically.

Anyone able to back me up or correct me?

Modifié par Demangel, 19 mars 2012 - 03:08 .

[jkflipflopDAO]

Demangel wrote...

From what I understand, once you reach a certain rank, say Captain for example - you technically might outrank a liutenantfor example, but your rank doesn't give you the authority to just order people around will nilly.

So in this case, if Kaiden DOES outrank Shepard (which I don't think he does), he may not have direct command over him meaning his rank doesn't convey for him anything more than due respect.  

In fact if your a Non Combat soldier, and you boss around an experienced combat officer just because you outrank them, your actions can be reviewed and you can be in trouble if your orders end up being faulted for screwing up the mission.

Really, a special operative, like a specter would be given the minimum rank required to be AUTONOMOUS. That is, to be allowed to handle an operation as they see fit, taking only their general direction from the higher ranks.

For example - Shepard, your mission is to kill Saren.

Thats an order, he must obey.

But in getting that job done, he would have the authority to pursue it his own way.

IF a superior officer gave him a countermanding order, he would need to refer back to the orriginal order. So if Admiral hacket said Do X, Even if Kaiden outranked him, he couldn't just tell him to DO Y instead.

However I'm unclear on whether Shepard could boss Kaiden around...

Only think I know for sure is that very often specialists are given higher ranks because they need to operate autonomously.

A medic, A Special Weapons unit, A Tank commander and his crew, A fighter pilot.

A low ranking soldier cannot make the kinds of judgement calls necessary for these situations without direction from above. An Admiral could not for example ORDER a captain Medic to perform a surgery a certain way. Even though he technically has the rank that gives him authority. If he did, he would be in deep trouble... theoretically.

Anyone able to back me up or correct me?

Read one post up. Spectres only take their orders from the council, and that's it. When Shepard gives an order, it is to be followed without question or he will force you to comply. Galactic law no longer applies to spectres. Not even Hackett can boss Shep around. He can only make suggestions and hope Shep agrees.

[yukon fire]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Insidiae wrote...


Just because they are spectres does not mean they don't have to follow the alliance rules and/or orders for as long they are serving the alliance. They are still connected and don't stand "above" the alliance. So no their titles are not symbolic and they are still serving the military.

 

Uh, that's exactly what it means. They no longer answer to anyone in the galaxy but the council. They are individuals whos actions elevate them above the rank and file. Galactic law no longer applies to them.

If I don't answer to them, why did they put me in the brig? 

[Nathan_41]

yukon fire wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Insidiae wrote...


Just because they are spectres does not mean they don't have to follow the alliance rules and/or orders for as long they are serving the alliance. They are still connected and don't stand "above" the alliance. So no their titles are not symbolic and they are still serving the military.

 

Uh, that's exactly what it means. They no longer answer to anyone in the galaxy but the council. They are individuals whos actions elevate them above the rank and file. Galactic law no longer applies to them.

If I don't answer to them, why did they put me in the brig? 

I mentioned this myself a while ago. If Shepard's Spectre status was reinstated in ME2 the fact that the Alliance can put him/her on trial is a plothole. He/She only answers to the Council.

[jkflipflopDAO]

Nathan_41 wrote...

yukon fire wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Insidiae wrote...


Just because they are spectres does not mean they don't have to follow the alliance rules and/or orders for as long they are serving the alliance. They are still connected and don't stand "above" the alliance. So no their titles are not symbolic and they are still serving the military.

 

Uh, that's exactly what it means. They no longer answer to anyone in the galaxy but the council. They are individuals whos actions elevate them above the rank and file. Galactic law no longer applies to them.

If I don't answer to them, why did they put me in the brig? 

I mentioned this myself a while ago. If Shepard's Spectre status was reinstated in ME2 the fact that the Alliance can put him/her on trial is a plothole. He/She only answers to the Council.

Technically, shepard could kill his way out and claim they were all indoctrinated. But that wouldnt exactly help his cause.

[RazorrX]

Joker says something about Kaiden almost shooting a superior officer (you). I think they are using the Canadian Royal Navy ranks which have Major and LTCmdr as the same.