297 réponses à ce sujet

[Radwar]

You seemed to have completely ignored my post, so here it is again:
And all the big plot holes, the fact that all endings are practically similar and that everything you did doesn't matter didn't bother you?

Please read this article:
http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/
after that, tell me again the ending makes sense.

You asked what plot holes and yet this article does a good job of putting it in your face.

[SpiderFan1217]

Radwar wrote...

You seemed to have completely ignored my post, so here it is again:
And all the big plot holes, the fact that all endings are practically similar and that everything you did doesn't matter didn't bother you?

Please read this article:
http://www.gamefront...fans-are-right/
after that, tell me again the ending makes sense.

You asked what plot holes and yet this article does a good job of putting it in your face.

You seemed to have completely ignored my post. Please read my response to your original post and then get back to me.

[Omilophile]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Just finished my first run of ME3. I took some advice and did it with a default Shep. I choose to destroy the Reapers. Everything seemed to fit. Bioware crafted a wonderful Trilegy and when they were done telling their story I wasn't left wanting. Usually when I finish a series that I love as much as I love ME. I'm sad that the journey is over. With ME it's different. I loved everything about it. From the Mako to mounds of weapon and armor DLC's that I will never use. Everythign just felt right. This is a way to say, "Thank You." to the company that has now solitified itself, in my eyes, as the greatest videogame developers of all time. It was a Hell of a Run Bioware. I'm glad I was part of it. Mass Effect was beautiful.


EDIT:    No, this is not a Troll. 

So...no questions you wanted answered or anything like that? Not bothered by random space-wizards, who are implied to be nearly omnipotent but for some reason can't figure out more than three half-ass solutions to the problem at hand? Nothing like that?

[SpiderFan1217]

Omilophile wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Just finished my first run of ME3. I took some advice and did it with a default Shep. I choose to destroy the Reapers. Everything seemed to fit. Bioware crafted a wonderful Trilegy and when they were done telling their story I wasn't left wanting. Usually when I finish a series that I love as much as I love ME. I'm sad that the journey is over. With ME it's different. I loved everything about it. From the Mako to mounds of weapon and armor DLC's that I will never use. Everythign just felt right. This is a way to say, "Thank You." to the company that has now solitified itself, in my eyes, as the greatest videogame developers of all time. It was a Hell of a Run Bioware. I'm glad I was part of it. Mass Effect was beautiful.


EDIT:    No, this is not a Troll. 

So...no questions you wanted answered or anything like that? Not bothered by random space-wizards, who are implied to be nearly omnipotent but for some reason can't figure out more than three half-ass solutions to the problem at hand? Nothing like that?

There weren't many unanswered questions, so nope. I'm good.

[Rygonist]

I'm genuinely glad that you enjoyed the ending. I wish I had.

Personally, I could not ignore how awful it was on a technical standpoint. No amount of rationalization about the implications the endings left could lead me to a satisfying scenario. And I thought of a lot.

[Ocassidy]

Denial sets in soon then anger and frustration.

[atheimetal]

I am okay with the way the game ended. The pessimist in me was never really sure if I would even be able to save anyone, and certainly did not expect to make it out alive for sure. Shepard already gave everything he had to fight the Reapers, it makes sense that he would give himself. Minor plot holes aside, I feel like an ending that involved Shepard drinking corona's on a nice beach somewhere with my entire crew would have been absurd and a total cop-out ending. I understand complaints about plot holes, but that aside, I can't tell if a majority of the complaints are simply because we are so conditioned to expect everything to work out in the end or what. I guess it would be fair to have an ending where he does make it though to satisfy those people. But me? I am simply sad that it is over.

Modifié par atheimetal, 19 mars 2012 - 06:11 .

[Omilophile]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

There weren't many unanswered questions, so nope. I'm good.

1. What happens to your squad/crew?

2. What happens to all the various races both on/above earth and on their respective worlds?

3. Who built the Reapers? (The Star-Child says "we" or "I" or something, but that isn't at all specific, nor is it a real answer)

4. How did my choices from the past three games impact the ending?

There's four right there, and that's just off the top of my head.

Modifié par Omilophile, 19 mars 2012 - 06:16 .

[Ocassidy]

 

Might change your opinion might not but its a good watch.

Modifié par Ocassidy, 19 mars 2012 - 06:20 .

[Zu Long]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Omilophile wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Just finished my first run of ME3. I took some advice and did it with a default Shep. I choose to destroy the Reapers. Everything seemed to fit. Bioware crafted a wonderful Trilegy and when they were done telling their story I wasn't left wanting. Usually when I finish a series that I love as much as I love ME. I'm sad that the journey is over. With ME it's different. I loved everything about it. From the Mako to mounds of weapon and armor DLC's that I will never use. Everythign just felt right. This is a way to say, "Thank You." to the company that has now solitified itself, in my eyes, as the greatest videogame developers of all time. It was a Hell of a Run Bioware. I'm glad I was part of it. Mass Effect was beautiful.


EDIT:    No, this is not a Troll. 

So...no questions you wanted answered or anything like that? Not bothered by random space-wizards, who are implied to be nearly omnipotent but for some reason can't figure out more than three half-ass solutions to the problem at hand? Nothing like that?

There weren't many unanswered questions, so nope. I'm good.

I'm glad you enjoyed it then. I had a...less favorable reaction.

[Hashbeth]

CODE TO PARSE THIS STATEMENT:

If Sarcasm:
run GolfClap
print "fufufufufu"

Elseif Troll:
run ChessClap
print "Eh...5/10"

Else:
run LiftsEyebrows
print "Um...so yeah. Might I point you to one of the myriad of threads/posts devoted to the many problems with the ending?

[YeGodz]

Ah, BSN civility and tolerance for dissenting viewpoints. Yes, clearly any deviation from forum groupthink is indicative of some kind of flaw. Obviously, we didn't think to hard about. Or we like plot holes. Must be it.

Or maybe there's a few fans of this game that aren't, y'know, cretins.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

The plot holes are there... if a gamer is aware of it and just doesn't care... then fine.

But otherwise... yeah^^

Let the bashing continue.

[SpiderFan1217]

Omilophile wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

There weren't many unanswered questions, so nope. I'm good.

1. What happens to your squad/crew?

2. What happens to all the various races both on/above earth and on their respective worlds?

3. Who built the Reapers? (The Star-Child says "we" or "I" or something, but that isn't at all specific, nor is it a real answer)

4. How did my choices from the past three games impact the ending?

There's four right there, and that's just off the top of my head.

1. They got on with their lives.
2. They got on with their lives, and in some cases rebuilt their homes.
3. The reapers were made be indoctrinated races. That was answered in ME2.
4. Are the rachni extinct? Are the Krogans cured? Are the Quarians gone? Are the Geth gone? Are organics and synthetics now fused. Are the Reapers gone? Will they be back in 50,000 years?

  What else you got? 

EDIT: Addition to 4.

Modifié par SpiderFan1217, 19 mars 2012 - 06:26 .

[Radwar]

From Game Front

3) Lore Errors, Plot Holes
Considering how short the ending of Mass Effect 3 actually is, it’s impressive that it could still manage to violate established canon while simultaneously creating holes in the plot bigger than The Illusive Man’s ego, but this is indeed the case, and it’s a source of serious criticism from the fan base. There is a huge debate currently underway among the fans about how much, precisely, is left hanging by the ending, and it will likely continue until either BioWare consents to create a new ending, or fans accept that they never will. We will focus on the three that are indisputable.

* The Mass Relays
No matter which of ME3′s endings you choose, the Mass Relays are all destroyed. Yes, despite the weakness of an ending that robs the galaxy of critical technology, the multicolored explosions (player choice!) are certainly pretty. But in The Arrival, it was firmly established that the destruction of a Mass Relay would result in an explosion resembling a supernova, destroying the relay’s star system. In Mass Effect 3′s ending, the Mass Relays are destroyed in explosions so massive that they’re depicted as being visible from a perspective that resembles the Normandy’s Galaxy Map. Which means that Shepard has probably killed more life forms than the Reapers could on their best cycle.

* Inferred Holocaust
But even if we assume that this time, the Mass Relay Network’s destruction was a completely different kind of explosion that didn’t wipe out hundreds of star systems, (that players are forced to fill in blanks like this is another point of contention, incidentally), even a relatively benign end to the Galaxy’s most critical technology suggests a terrible outcome: Everyone in the galaxy is stranded where they happened to be at that moment, including thousands of ships and millions of alien races now orbiting a ruined Earth.
It’s safe to assume that the fleets who travelled to Earth for the final Reaper battle were stocked with supplies, but with the Mass Relay network knocked out, they’re all basically stuck there. That ending’s not just bleak — it implies outright extinction. While the galactic races have access to faster-than-light travel, the relay network is what made moving about the galaxy possible. Even conventional faster-than-light travel means decades before any of those ships makes it home, or even to another star system. It’s more than safe to assume no one, not the Quarians, not the Turians, not the krogan, Asari or Salarians, no one is going see home again.
Unfortunately, the burned husk of Earth certainly can’t support the combined military forces of the galaxy. And remember folks, Turians and Quarians can’t eat human food anyway. The assumption then has to be that everyone scrambles to find a colony to support them, and/or they all die. In all likelihood — faced with starvation, the krogan slowly eat everybody.

* The Normandy’s Escape
There’s just one little problem. At the beginning of the final mission, every single squad member travels down to earth with you. Whichever two you chose to accompany you to the Conduit are with you during the final push when you’re blasted by Harbinger. That blast nearly kills you and Anderson. It can only be assumed – again, the player is forced to fill in blanks – that your squad was also hit in the blast. Meanwhile, Joker remained in orbit around earth to take part in the final battle. So how did he A) manage to rescue your squad and get the ship to the Charon relay in time to outrun the explosion? The ending cutscene makes it clear that the explosions begin almost concurrently with whichever end to the Reaper threat you chose. So, did Joker chicken out and abandon his post along with your crew? Did the game suddenly introduce Transporter technology? Was it some kind of magical nonsense? This is probably the biggest WTF of all. As the Mass Relays explode, we see a short clip of Joker furiously scrambling in the Normandy cockpit, followed by the Normandy barely staying ahead of the chain of explosions. Eventually, the Normandy crash-lands on a convenient, Earth-like jungle planet. Joker survives, and as he staggers out of the ship to see the new, presumably permanent home, he’s joined by members of Shepard’s crew. In almost every ending, these crew members include Shepard’s love interest and at least one person who joined Shep in his/her final push.
Who knows? BioWare certainly didn’t explain it. Which means that for the rest of time, players must end every Mass Effect 3 game knowing that Joker is probably looking at a Court Martial for cowardice.

Modifié par Radwar, 19 mars 2012 - 06:43 .

[Omilophile]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

1. They got on with their lives.
2. They got on with their lives, and in some cases rebuilt their homes.
3. The reapers were made be indoctrinated races. That was answered in ME2.
4. Are the rachni extinct? Are the Krogans cured? Are the Quarians gone? Are the Geth gone? Are organics and synthetics now fused. Are the Reapers gone? Will they be back in 50,000 years?

  What else you got? 

EDIT: Addition to 4.

I honestly think you're trolling, but the emoticons make me believe it's a friendly competition...

1. "They got on with their lives" is not a legitimate answer. If books were written like that, they would only be a few pages long. Mass Effect is a story and should be treated as such.

2. Again, not a real answer. It's the writers' job (if they follow standard English language story-telling methods, which they have up until this point) to take care of these kinds of details. Not my imagination's.

3. I was talking about the original Reapers. Subsequent Reapers were made by the indoctrinated races, yes, but the original ones were built by someone else for some purpose. Star-child only gives recycled Reaper rhetoric (hmm... that's a lot of r's) as to why they were built. The question is never truly answered.

4. No no no. I said how the choices affect the ending. Not the bulk of ME3, but the end of the end. You could start a new game and play through the entire trilogy making completely arbitrary decisions, and it would still boil down to just three choices at the end.

    I could've saved the Collector Base and killed the Rachni or vice versa. I could've sided with the geth or the quarians or both. I could've lost numerous squadmates at the Collector Base or none at all. Still just three choices at the end. Ergo, choices do not affect the ending and are rendered null and void, as it were.

Modifié par Omilophile, 19 mars 2012 - 07:03 .

[SpiderFan1217]

Radwar wrote...

From Game Front

3) Lore Errors, Plot Holes
Considering how short the ending of Mass Effect 3 actually is, it’s impressive that it could still manage to violate established canon while simultaneously creating holes in the plot bigger than The Illusive Man’s ego, but this is indeed the case, and it’s a source of serious criticism from the fan base. There is a huge debate currently underway among the fans about how much, precisely, is left hanging by the ending, and it will likely continue until either BioWare consents to create a new ending, or fans accept that they never will. We will focus on the three that are indisputable.

* The Mass Relays[/b]
No matter which of ME3′s endings you choose, the Mass Relays are all destroyed. Yes, despite the weakness of an ending that robs the galaxy of critical technology, the multicolored explosions (player choice!) are certainly pretty. But in The Arrival, it was firmly established that the destruction of a Mass Relay would result in an explosion resembling a supernova, destroying the relay’s star system. In Mass Effect 3′s ending, the Mass Relays are destroyed in explosions so massive that they’re depicted as being visible from a perspective that resembles the Normandy’s Galaxy Map. Which means that Shepard has probably killed more life forms than the Reapers could on their best cycle.

* Inferred Holocaust
But even if we assume that this time, the Mass Relay Network’s destruction was a completely different kind of explosion that didn’t wipe out hundreds of star systems, (that players are forced to fill in blanks like this is another point of contention, incidentally), even a relatively benign end to the Galaxy’s most critical technology suggests a terrible outcome: Everyone in the galaxy is stranded where they happened to be at that moment, including thousands of ships and millions of alien races now orbiting a ruined Earth.
It’s safe to assume that the fleets who travelled to Earth for the final Reaper battle were stocked with supplies, but with the Mass Relay network knocked out, they’re all basically stuck there. That ending’s not just bleak — it implies outright extinction. While the galactic races have access to faster-than-light travel, the relay network is what made moving about the galaxy possible. Even conventional faster-than-light travel means decades before any of those ships makes it home, or even to another star system. It’s more than safe to assume no one, not the Quarians, not the Turians, not the krogan, Asari or Salarians, no one is going see home again.
Unfortunately, the burned husk of Earth certainly can’t support the combined military forces of the galaxy. And remember folks, Turians and Quarians can’t eat human food anyway. The assumption then has to be that everyone scrambles to find a colony to support them, and/or they all die. In all likelihood — faced with starvation, the krogan slowly eat everybody.

 * The Normandy’s Escape
 There’s just one little problem. At the beginning of the final mission, every single squad member travels down to earth with you. Whichever two you chose to accompany you to the Conduit are with you during the final push when you’re blasted by Harbinger. That blast nearly kills you and Anderson. It can only be assumed – again, the player is forced to fill in blanks – that your squad was also hit in the blast. Meanwhile, Joker remained in orbit around earth to take part in the final battle. So how did he A) manage to rescue your squad and get the ship to the Charon relay in time to outrun the explosion? The ending cutscene makes it clear that the explosions begin almost concurrently with whichever end to the Reaper threat you chose. So, did Joker chicken out and abandon his post along with your crew? Did the game suddenly introduce Transporter technology? Was it some kind of magical nonsense? This is probably the biggest WTF of all. As the Mass Relays explode, we see a short clip of Joker furiously scrambling in the Normandy cockpit, followed by the Normandy barely staying ahead of the chain of explosions. Eventually, the Normandy crash-lands on a convenient, Earth-like jungle planet. Joker survives, and as he staggers out of the ship to see the new, presumably permanent home, he’s joined by members of Shepard’s crew. In almost every ending, these crew members include Shepard’s love interest and at least one person who joined Shep in his/her final push.
Who knows? BioWare certainly didn’t explain it. Which means that for the rest of time, players must end every Mass Effect 3 game knowing that Joker is probably looking at a Court Martial for cowardice.  

1. What plotholes?
2. The relay explosions were not that big. They highlighted them for that scene of the galaxy so that you could see the chain reaction.
3. No one dies because they were not destoryed in the same way. If you blow up a nuke with TNT it doesn't go nucleur. You have to use it the way it's intended.
4.They rebuild the relays, or come up with new tech. Personally I like to think they used all that Reaper tech that was now convenintly laying around.
5. Turians and Quarians don't starve. They eat quarian food and nutriant paste.
6. They don't turn on eachother for resources. They help eachother rebuild. Coming together and uniting to complete an impossible task was the whole point of ME3.
7. Joker managed to rescue your squad while you were unconcious. You didn't ger rescued because you were out cold and they could not find you.
8. Joker did not chicken out. He was ordered to bail. There is a call to retreat in the game. Personally if I see a super weapon that I don't know much about putting on the galaxy's largest light show I would get the h*ll out and try to save my friends and GF too.
9. Crashlanding there was probably not conventiant. Remember Joker is, " the best damn helmsman in the Alliance Fleet." He took them there and had to do some fancy flying to get them to crash reletively safely.
10. Eventually they get rescued.

  What else you got? 

[Ultra Prism]

I say one thing

As you wish...

I will hold the line instead

[SpiderFan1217]

Omilophile wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

1. They got on with their lives.
2. They got on with their lives, and in some cases rebuilt their homes.
3. The reapers were made be indoctrinated races. That was answered in ME2.
4. Are the rachni extinct? Are the Krogans cured? Are the Quarians gone? Are the Geth gone? Are organics and synthetics now fused. Are the Reapers gone? Will they be back in 50,000 years?

  What else you got? 

EDIT: Addition to 4.

I honestly think you're trolling, but the emoticons make me believe it's a friendly competition...

1. "They got on with their lives" is not a legitimate answer. If books were written like that, they would only be a few pages long. Mass Effect is a story and should be treated as such.

2. Again, not a real answer. It's the writers' job (if they follow standard English language story-telling methods, which they have up until this point) to take care of these kinds of details. Not my imagination's.

3. I was talking about the original Reapers. Subsequent Reapers were made by the indoctrinated races, yes, but the original ones were built by someone else for some purpose. Star-child gives recycled Reaper rhetoric (hmm... that's a lot of r's) as to why they were built.

4. No no no. I said how the choices affect the ending. Not the bulk of ME3, but the end of the end. You could start a new game and play through the entire trilogy making completely arbitrary decisions, and it would still boil down to just three choices at the end.

    I could've saved the Collector Base and killed the Rachni or vice versa. I could've sided with the geth or the quarians or both. I could've lost numerous squadmates at the Collector Base or none at all. Still just three choices at the end. Ergo, choices do not affect the ending and are rendered null and void, as it were.

1. I don't get what your asking then. They live their lives. What more do you need to know? Each of them did their own thing. Tali helped rebuild her homeworld. Liara did archeology stuff. Garrus goes to the bar and gets Shep and him a round.
2. The races rebuild. What else is there to do?
3. The Catylist indoctrinated the races that made it, and they built the first Reapers. It'd be dumb to assume that Reapers can indoctrinate and It couldn't.
4. What do you mean how do they affect the ending? The ending isn't the Destroy/Control/Synthesis choice, it's what happens after you defeat the Reapers. The last decision is another choice that affects the ending. Not the ending.

[SpiderFan1217]

Ultra Prism wrote...

I say one thing

As you wish...

I will hold the line instead

To each their own. I wish you well. Thank you and all the other civil responders.

[Ultai]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Just finished my first run of ME3. I took some advice and did it with a default Shep. 

Did this advice come from one Chris Priestly before the release about how we should try the game with a non imported shep first?

[Chuvvy]

OP's just in stage one.

[Omilophile]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

1. I don't get what your asking then. They live their lives. What more do you need to know? Each of them did their own thing. Tali helped rebuild her homeworld. Liara did archeology stuff. Garrus goes to the bar and gets Shep and him a round.
2. The races rebuild. What else is there to do?
3. The Catylist indoctrinated the races that made it, and they built the first Reapers. It'd be dumb to assume that Reapers can indoctrinate and It couldn't.
4. What do you mean how do they affect the ending? The ending isn't the Destroy/Control/Synthesis choice, it's what happens after you defeat the Reapers. The last decision is another choice that affects the ending. Not the ending.

1. You're assuming all these things happen, but that's the point. We shouldn't have to guess and assume. It should be written into the game based on the choices you make. Also, how did they get off the mystery planet to do these things? All you're telling me is what you are assuming/ imagining to be the aftermath. As I said, it is not up to the player to make this stuff up in his/her head. A good writer would explain it.

2. Again with the assumptions. It would be nice to SEE them rebuild. To KNOW that they're all alive and well instead of assuming and filling gaps in the poor writing with my imagination. Plus, how do you know they rebuild? The Catalyst pulse severely damages the Normandy regardless of the ending you choose. It's safe to assume (as you seem so fond of doing) that this happened to most other tech, or at least ships, in the galaxy. Not knowing what actually happens is the problem.

 When writing a story, you don't give a general summary and force the reader to make up the rest with imagination. This is what was done with the ending.

3. Doesn't explain who built the Catalyst.

4. Ah. I was wrong. My bad. There aren't only three, but four endings. Still unaffected by anything you did in the previous games.

[SpiderFan1217]

Ultai wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Just finished my first run of ME3. I took some advice and did it with a default Shep. 

Did this advice come from one Chris Priestly before the release about how we should try the game with a non imported shep first?

Yes.

[Radwar]

1. What plotholes?
2. The relay explosions were not that big. They highlighted them for that scene of the galaxy so that you could see the chain reaction.
3. No one dies because they were not destoryed in the same way. If you blow up a nuke with TNT it doesn't go nucleur. You have to use it the way it's intended.
4.They rebuild the relays, or come up with new tech. Personally I like to think they used all that Reaper tech that was now convenintly laying around.
5. Turians and Quarians don't starve. They eat quarian food and nutriant paste.
6. They don't turn on eachother for resources. They help eachother rebuild. Coming together and uniting to complete an impossible task was the whole point of ME3.
7. Joker managed to rescue your squad while you were unconcious. You didn't ger rescued because you were out cold and they could not find you.
8. Joker did not chicken out. He was ordered to bail. There is a call to retreat in the game. Personally if I see a super weapon that I don't know much about putting on the galaxy's largest light show I would get the h*ll out and try to save my friends and GF too.
9. Crashlanding there was probably not conventiant. Remember Joker is, " the best damn helmsman in the Alliance Fleet." He took them there and had to do some fancy flying to get them to crash reletively safely.
10. Eventually they get rescued.

  What else you got?  [/quote]


What else I've got? Your replies were a complete pile of crap and you then ask this question?
2) Relay explosions were not that big:
Like the article says, when a relay explodes, it's explosion is big enough to destroy a whole system! There aren't small relay explosions, is it that hard for you to comprehend? All the relays exploding in the galaxy means that these systems no longer exists, period.
3) Your example makes no sense at all. A nuke is a nuke (nuclear fision), you can't blow up a nuke with tnt, what the hell are you talking about?
4) There's no Reaper tech laying around since the destruction of the relays vaporised everything in their path.

5) Ships used the Mass Relays which meant they could get to their destinations rather quickly, which means there sure isn't food to last years in their ships, what then? All aliens are stuck where they are (And that's IF the Mass Relays didn't destroy them exept according to Arrivil, they should all be destroyed).

6) I'm not really sure what your going on about here. If you're talking about the races stranded in earths systems, if they haven't been destroyed by the relays for whatever reason, the turians & quarians are still doomed due to starvation. As for the other's it's pure speculation.

7) The explosion was immediate and no warning was given at what was coming which means theres no way Joker could have escaped since he would've been busy fighting the Reapers and certainly wouldn't have had time to get your squadmates which were all fighting on Earth.

8) Yes and that was an explosion and it was catching up to the Normandy  which means there's no way he could've had time to rescue your squadmates on Earth and escape.

9-10) Oh brother

Either you're trolling everyone or you're one of the biggest Bioware apologists I've seen.

 

Modifié par Radwar, 19 mars 2012 - 07:35 .