The endings have lots of problems, but I see an underlying theme with a lot of criticism being tossed around, and that's discontent with ANY interpretation of 'why' the reapers do their reaping. I tend to think that most people just can't handle the idea of wiping out everything. It's just too much for them to take, so any reason put forth to explain why they do it is shot down or claimed to have plot holes or rely on space magic.
Here's your chance to prove me wrong. Shepard asks starkid why the reapers do what they do. It's your turn to answer in his place, but there are rules (otherwise your answer will suck on a storytelling level and be inconsistent with themes from the game and bioware's style).
1. The motivation can't be based in selfishness of the reapers.
2. The motivation must make logical sense and stand up to the same criticisms leveled at the current explanations.
3. The motivation must provide some sort of greater good/utilitarianism or be absolutely necessary as part of some goal that is grand in scope.
good luck.
Challenge to the critics, invent proper Reaper motivation
Débuté par
adam_nox
, mars 19 2012 01:47
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:53
KotorEffect3
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Though I wasn't crazy about the ending myself, the Reapers motivations weren't one of the things that bugged me. I always figured they acted as some sort of safeguard and reaping advanced organic life was their twisted way of safeguarding all organics. So my personal theories about reaper motivation wasn't that far off. I just wish their origin had been explained.
#3
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:55
Red Dust
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To prevent organics from leaving The Milky Way, thus saving them from the horrors that lurk beyond the galactic horizon.
#4
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:55
Unit-Alpha
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The dark energy one worked fantastically well.
#5
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:56
ediskrad327
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agreeUnit-Alpha wrote...
The dark energy one worked fantastically well.
#6
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:57
NightHawkIL
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There are a number of motivations that would have much fewer plot holes. Here are three options in no particular order:
Originally the reapers were supposed to be working to prevent the spread of dark energy, hence all the references in ME2. The idea was scrapped after a script leak. That would be a fine motivation to bring back.
A second one would be that they simply want to prevent anything from becoming more advanced than they are, and yet keep some organics alive after each cycle so that they can use them to continue to improve themselves.
Third, they could believe they are gods - playing a role of directing evolution along the paths they believe are superior. They could be doing this to either; 1) create the a supreme form of life, which they might see as their duty as gods, or 2) simply be directing evolution to create creatures they can harvest to enrich their own knowledge or form.
Originally the reapers were supposed to be working to prevent the spread of dark energy, hence all the references in ME2. The idea was scrapped after a script leak. That would be a fine motivation to bring back.
A second one would be that they simply want to prevent anything from becoming more advanced than they are, and yet keep some organics alive after each cycle so that they can use them to continue to improve themselves.
Third, they could believe they are gods - playing a role of directing evolution along the paths they believe are superior. They could be doing this to either; 1) create the a supreme form of life, which they might see as their duty as gods, or 2) simply be directing evolution to create creatures they can harvest to enrich their own knowledge or form.
#7
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:58
Dhraconus
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They reap to reproduce.
Simple and logical. No reason to over complicate the issue.
Simple and logical. No reason to over complicate the issue.
#8
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:58
brian_breed
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There are dozens of threads about this already. The series thoroughly establishes that the Reapers' motives are supposed to be inscrutable. Prior to the conflict on Rannoch, we have never had any reason to believe otherwise.
The less I know about the Reapers, the more fascinating I find them.
The less I know about the Reapers, the more fascinating I find them.
#9
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:58
Lankist
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They feel like it.
That's all they need. They are arrogant, self-assured "pinnacles of evolution" who have no respect for lower life-forms. They will do whatever they damn well please. That's what makes them the bad guys.
That's all they need. They are arrogant, self-assured "pinnacles of evolution" who have no respect for lower life-forms. They will do whatever they damn well please. That's what makes them the bad guys.
Modifié par Lankist, 19 mars 2012 - 01:59 .
#11
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:58
Asnine112
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There was no need to explain their motivations.
Should've kept them as a Lovecraftian entity
Should've kept them as a Lovecraftian entity
#12
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:59
SandTrout
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The Reapers believe that they are doing organic species a favor by fast-forwarding their evolution to the inevitable point where we merge our collective consciousnesses via technology into a theoretically 'perfect' state.
Because not all species prove themselves 'worthy' they are simply purged instead of turned into Reapers in order to make room for new, worthy life to develop and advance without the hinderence of unworthy, but advanced life.
Because not all species prove themselves 'worthy' they are simply purged instead of turned into Reapers in order to make room for new, worthy life to develop and advance without the hinderence of unworthy, but advanced life.
#13
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:59
Red Dust
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Asnine112 wrote...
There was no need to explain their motivations.
Should've kept them as a Lovecraftian entity
That ship has sailed, we got too many details in ME2 to not go all the way in 3.
#14
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:59
Megachaz
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I completely disagree. When I heard about the "dark energy" thing, I thought it was probably the only thing that could possibly be worse than what we have now.Unit-Alpha wrote...
The dark energy one worked fantastically well.
#15
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 01:59
Silvren555
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There has been so much discussion on the ending and indoctrination theories but I have a slightly odd thought regarding the events.
The Reapers wipe out evolved organic life every 50,000 years, according to space magic child, its to prevent the created from wiping out the creators, or synthetic life wiping out all organic life.
I'm not getting into ending arguments or indoc theory, just an alternative look at some things.
Sovereign said, We left the mass relays and citadel to guide your technological evolution along the path we choose. (Words to that effect)
Doesnt that sound almost as if we're being created?
We know the Reapers are partially organic and require organic matter in constrution, so part of the goal in harvesting evolved organics is to collect matter so they can replicate / manufacture / reproduce even, more Reapers.
Additionally, they also require slaves, I'm guessing even husks dont last forever.
But what if the main reason is to stop the "Created" civilisations from surpassing them techologically, and thereby forcing a confrontation that could cause the Reapers (Synthetics) to actually destroy all organic life in another form of relay overload so it goes nova like the Arrival DLC gate did, and eradicating all life in that system.
The reason they wait so long between each cycle is the billions of life forms needed for manufacturing of new Reapers, but they cannot destroy all organic life because they would no longer be able to create additional Reapers or slaves.
I'm also assuming the Reapers are the evolutionary end game of the first sentient species in the galaxy, perhaps something similar to the Protheans, a species that dominated all others and when they evolved into the synthetic creatures they are today, they used or destroyed all the other evolved sentient life forms.
Maybe they even destroyed ALL organic life and had to wait much longer than 50,000 years for organic life to evolve out of the swamps again so they could "harvest" them, at which point they realised they had to restrain their culling to evolved species only, but thats getting into an entirely different discussion and one that could go on awhile.
Anyway, as I said, an alternative thought on the Reapers, the created and creators, is it all just bull**** rumbling around in my head because I'm trying to make some sense out of the nonsensical ending we were presented with?
Possibly.
The Reapers wipe out evolved organic life every 50,000 years, according to space magic child, its to prevent the created from wiping out the creators, or synthetic life wiping out all organic life.
I'm not getting into ending arguments or indoc theory, just an alternative look at some things.
Sovereign said, We left the mass relays and citadel to guide your technological evolution along the path we choose. (Words to that effect)
Doesnt that sound almost as if we're being created?
We know the Reapers are partially organic and require organic matter in constrution, so part of the goal in harvesting evolved organics is to collect matter so they can replicate / manufacture / reproduce even, more Reapers.
Additionally, they also require slaves, I'm guessing even husks dont last forever.
But what if the main reason is to stop the "Created" civilisations from surpassing them techologically, and thereby forcing a confrontation that could cause the Reapers (Synthetics) to actually destroy all organic life in another form of relay overload so it goes nova like the Arrival DLC gate did, and eradicating all life in that system.
The reason they wait so long between each cycle is the billions of life forms needed for manufacturing of new Reapers, but they cannot destroy all organic life because they would no longer be able to create additional Reapers or slaves.
I'm also assuming the Reapers are the evolutionary end game of the first sentient species in the galaxy, perhaps something similar to the Protheans, a species that dominated all others and when they evolved into the synthetic creatures they are today, they used or destroyed all the other evolved sentient life forms.
Maybe they even destroyed ALL organic life and had to wait much longer than 50,000 years for organic life to evolve out of the swamps again so they could "harvest" them, at which point they realised they had to restrain their culling to evolved species only, but thats getting into an entirely different discussion and one that could go on awhile.
Anyway, as I said, an alternative thought on the Reapers, the created and creators, is it all just bull**** rumbling around in my head because I'm trying to make some sense out of the nonsensical ending we were presented with?
Possibly.
#16
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:00
Skyblade012
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I prefer honestly not knowing the Reaper's motivations.
Of all the questions I want answered, that one was not even on the list.
The Reapers are, essentially, space-C'thulu. They are supposed to be beyond us. Their technology, power, thoughts, and motivations are supposed to be something beyond our knowledge.
By explaining their logic, in a way we can understand it, you ruin them as villains. The Reapers are brought down to our level. This is furthered by humanizing them with a child avatar. They are no longer the big scary, unknowable death machines, they are just brainwashed tools of a logically broken computer.
I prefer to think that their motivation is literally something that we cannot cope with, that it doesn't fit in with our views and logic. It makes them more threatening, and makes destroying them more satisfying.
Of all the questions I want answered, that one was not even on the list.
The Reapers are, essentially, space-C'thulu. They are supposed to be beyond us. Their technology, power, thoughts, and motivations are supposed to be something beyond our knowledge.
By explaining their logic, in a way we can understand it, you ruin them as villains. The Reapers are brought down to our level. This is furthered by humanizing them with a child avatar. They are no longer the big scary, unknowable death machines, they are just brainwashed tools of a logically broken computer.
I prefer to think that their motivation is literally something that we cannot cope with, that it doesn't fit in with our views and logic. It makes them more threatening, and makes destroying them more satisfying.
#17
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:00
NPH11
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So we have to come up with a better motivation meeting the established standards of the current motivation, even though most of us agree that the current motivation is completely asinine?
Great idea, I'll go with Dark Energy. Y'know, the idea that ME1 and ME2 were building towards?
Or how about their motivations are beyond our comprehension, as we were told in ME1? I was pretty pleased with that idea.
Better yet, how about any idea that doesn't involve stupid circular logic?
Great idea, I'll go with Dark Energy. Y'know, the idea that ME1 and ME2 were building towards?
Or how about their motivations are beyond our comprehension, as we were told in ME1? I was pretty pleased with that idea.
Better yet, how about any idea that doesn't involve stupid circular logic?
Modifié par NPH11, 19 mars 2012 - 02:01 .
#18
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:00
zerokku
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Dhraconus wrote...
They reap to reproduce.
Simple and logical. No reason to over complicate the issue.
This. They're simply at the top of the food chain. They don't need to explain things any further than what Soveriegn did in ME1.
Do you explain to a cow, or an Ant, or any other creature why you kill it? No. You simply do.
Modifié par zerokku, 19 mars 2012 - 02:01 .
#19
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:00
Reign762
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The reapers are afraid of any organic life becoming sentient or advanced enough to rival them. So they cull the universe to avoid any race being able to destroy them. (Cyclical argument based around the theme they tried to go with)
Or because its been stated by Sovereign that we can't possibly comprehend their logic ... don't explain it.
Or because its been stated by Sovereign that we can't possibly comprehend their logic ... don't explain it.
Modifié par Reign762, 19 mars 2012 - 02:01 .
#20
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:01
Quietness
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Doesnt need one, they simply uplift the cycle. Im sorry but honestly the unknown is more terrifying. Whats scarier A mass murder who kills for a certain reason, or one that kills and no one knows why.. they just....do...
Modifié par Quietness, 19 mars 2012 - 02:01 .
#21
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:01
Unit-Alpha
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Megachaz wrote...
I completely disagree. When I heard about the "dark energy" thing, I thought it was probably the only thing that could possibly be worse than what we have now.Unit-Alpha wrote...
The dark energy one worked fantastically well.
Your opinion. Makes a hell of a lot more sense than:
#22
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:01
NightHawkIL
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I'm so incredibly sick of people bombing these threads with 'don't tell us what the reapers were after, keep them mysterious' posts. Make your own thread if that's what you want, I have nothing against that idea. This is a place to discuss possible motivations, not whether there should be any or not.
#23
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:01
EmGo
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Could we please, just get the better ending?
#24
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:01
Linus108
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I actually think the original explanation was good enough, and fell in line with the overall themes and plot of the series. Past races combined together to become the reapers to stop the Dark Energy problem. It was a last resort.
So in the end, Shepard has to decide: do what past races did and join the Reapers to stop this threat. Or destroy the reapers and try to solve the Dark Energy problem while they are still alive and with what time they have left. And even if it means possibly dying, at least being free and Working together with all races united to solve the problem.
At least then, the Reapoer motivation somewhat makes sense. Better than the answer we got.
So in the end, Shepard has to decide: do what past races did and join the Reapers to stop this threat. Or destroy the reapers and try to solve the Dark Energy problem while they are still alive and with what time they have left. And even if it means possibly dying, at least being free and Working together with all races united to solve the problem.
At least then, the Reapoer motivation somewhat makes sense. Better than the answer we got.
Modifié par Linus108, 19 mars 2012 - 02:03 .
#25
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:01
Bigdoser
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I got an answer simply don't give them a motivation. I liked my cthulhu death machines surronded in mystery.
Modifié par Bigdoser, 19 mars 2012 - 02:02 .
