Anything along the lines of "protecting organics from themselves" doesn't really work with how sinister and arrogant both Sovereign and Harbinger were.
Don't worry bro, we're just doing all this for your kind's own good. *Turns your family into goo, turns your friends into horrible monsters that want to kill you, destroys your home planet and taunts you the entire time*
Challenge to the critics, invent proper Reaper motivation
Débuté par
adam_nox
, mars 19 2012 01:47
Retour en haut
#52
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:09
General Jack D. Ripper
-
- Members
- 91 messages
I honestly think the current reason is fine. It just needs to be fleshed out. If the reaper brat directly mentioned the geth quarian peace and explained why it's short term, I'd get it.
#53
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:09
RoboticWater
-
- Members
- 2 358 messages
Yea, but that's kind of boring.Artking3 wrote...
Dhraconus wrote...
They reap to reproduce.
Simple and logical. No reason to over complicate the issue.
My explaination, since they are bio-synthetic.
Don't get me wrong, I disliked the ending but I think that a simple explanation would contradict the "We trancend your very understanding" thing Soverign said.
#54
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:10
DrDetective
-
- Members
- 271 messages
BlahDog wrote...
The phrase "better to try and fail than never try at all" comes to mind. While the endings are most certainly terrible, I don't think a "we just like killing things" ending would be well recieved either.Bigdoser wrote...
I got an answer simply don't give them a motivation. I liked my cthulhu death machines surronded in mystery.
But we were explicitly told that we could not possibly understand their motivations. Not explaining it leaves that as a possibility.
#55
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:10
Warlock Adam
-
- Members
- 413 messages
Sure.
1) (Original ME3 idea) The process of organic evolution eventually leads to a buildup in dark energy which will obliterate all life and the galaxy if left unchecked. The Reapers kill sentient life to prevent this destruction, harvesting a few select species (the worthy) to become Reapers.
2) Some unknown, unexplainable, cosmically catastrophic force is coming from beyond the galaxy. No one knows WHEN it will come, or what it is (its origins are similar in scope to the Big Bang) but it's out there. The Reapers harvest organic life to create more Reapers, the only form of life in the galaxy (at least in their eyes) that can survive the coming apocalypse. More Reapers=more preserved species.
3) The first Reaper (possibly Harbinger) was created by a long-dead civilization that wished to gain immortality, and uploaded its entire species into a Reaper shell. This Reaper concluded that it was a god and that its purpose was to create more of itself, i.e. more Reapers. The cycle has continued for billions upon billions of years.
4) The Reapers were created from ANOTHER galaxy beyond ours by incredibly powerful and unknowable beings comparable to gods. The Reapers are their method of scientifically evaluating, experimenting, and preserving other forms of life in other galaxies. In a sense, the Milky Way has become the playground of these beings. Bonus points if, after creation, the Reapers slaughtered their creators and ascended to godhood themselves.
5) The first Reaper was found by a long-dead race, drifting in space above their home world, a leftover from another time or place. No one knew where it came from or what its origin was, but when reactivated its first instinct was to indoctrinate them all and become a god. It wiped out the entire galaxy, believing itself to be a superior life form, but used the species that worshipped it to create another Reaper; another copy, another equally superior life form. This pattern continued until, today, every Reaper believes utterly in its own superiority and godhood. The Catalyst is the first Reaper.
6) To solve an ancient war, an organic and synthetic civilization pooled their resources to create the first Reaper--a perfect combination of the two life forms. It then proceeded to go Ax Crazy insane and kill/harvest everything. This follows the idea of "organics vs. synthetics" because Reapers believe that they are the only way to forestall such war, but points out the debate as the Retarded Troll Logic it is. Shepard then shoots the Catalyst in the face and finds another way to fix the issue.
7) Anything not involving Space Magic.
All told, this took about 10 minutes. Bioware had months.
1) (Original ME3 idea) The process of organic evolution eventually leads to a buildup in dark energy which will obliterate all life and the galaxy if left unchecked. The Reapers kill sentient life to prevent this destruction, harvesting a few select species (the worthy) to become Reapers.
2) Some unknown, unexplainable, cosmically catastrophic force is coming from beyond the galaxy. No one knows WHEN it will come, or what it is (its origins are similar in scope to the Big Bang) but it's out there. The Reapers harvest organic life to create more Reapers, the only form of life in the galaxy (at least in their eyes) that can survive the coming apocalypse. More Reapers=more preserved species.
3) The first Reaper (possibly Harbinger) was created by a long-dead civilization that wished to gain immortality, and uploaded its entire species into a Reaper shell. This Reaper concluded that it was a god and that its purpose was to create more of itself, i.e. more Reapers. The cycle has continued for billions upon billions of years.
4) The Reapers were created from ANOTHER galaxy beyond ours by incredibly powerful and unknowable beings comparable to gods. The Reapers are their method of scientifically evaluating, experimenting, and preserving other forms of life in other galaxies. In a sense, the Milky Way has become the playground of these beings. Bonus points if, after creation, the Reapers slaughtered their creators and ascended to godhood themselves.
5) The first Reaper was found by a long-dead race, drifting in space above their home world, a leftover from another time or place. No one knew where it came from or what its origin was, but when reactivated its first instinct was to indoctrinate them all and become a god. It wiped out the entire galaxy, believing itself to be a superior life form, but used the species that worshipped it to create another Reaper; another copy, another equally superior life form. This pattern continued until, today, every Reaper believes utterly in its own superiority and godhood. The Catalyst is the first Reaper.
6) To solve an ancient war, an organic and synthetic civilization pooled their resources to create the first Reaper--a perfect combination of the two life forms. It then proceeded to go Ax Crazy insane and kill/harvest everything. This follows the idea of "organics vs. synthetics" because Reapers believe that they are the only way to forestall such war, but points out the debate as the Retarded Troll Logic it is. Shepard then shoots the Catalyst in the face and finds another way to fix the issue.
7) Anything not involving Space Magic.
All told, this took about 10 minutes. Bioware had months.
#56
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:10
jbauck
-
- Members
- 313 messages
Quietness wrote...
NightHawkIL wrote...
I'm so incredibly sick of people bombing these threads with 'don't tell us what the reapers were after, keep them mysterious' posts. Make your own thread if that's what you want, I have nothing against that idea. This is a place to discuss possible motivations, not whether there should be any or not.
The topic title is "invent a proper reaper motivation"... and honestly not knowing is fine. In any horror films, a killer is far scarier when you dont know why rather than you can go oh "its cause of blah blah blah".
Yes - the monster is scarier before you get a good look at it. Sticking with the "you cannot comprehend us" thing would've worked just fine. Reapers are more terrifying if they really are so far advanced their motivations are unfathomable.
But if you must have a reason, they're the guardians whose advanced technological forms allow them to prevent the very fabric of the universe from unraveling, which would occur naturally every 50k years without them to stop it. They have to harvest organic life to create more reapers because they lose reapers in their epic struggle every 50k years. They even harvest life from other galaxies ... this one is just one of many.
I still prefer "can't be understood", though. What's more frightening than something that absolutely will kill you, when you have no real chance to defend yourself or reason with them, because they're far more powerful and their motivations are truly incomprehensible?
#57
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:11
RoboticWater
-
- Members
- 2 358 messages
Well, put it this way. If all species are turned into reapers that work together, then they have stopped any form of fighting and gave them a purpose.savionen wrote...
Anything along the lines of "protecting organics from themselves" doesn't really work with how sinister and arrogant both Sovereign and Harbinger were.
Don't worry bro, we're just doing all this for your kind's own good. *Turns your family into goo, turns your friends into horrible monsters that want to kill you, destroys your home planet and taunts you the entire time*
#58
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:11
ydaraishy
-
- Members
- 301 messages
I like the notion that they originally had a logically consistent idea behind them, but time and bit-rot (or any other reasons) meant that it got twisted out of control into what you see today.
#59
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:11
MPSai
-
- Members
- 1 366 messages
BlahDog wrote...
Yea, but that's kind of boring.Artking3 wrote...
Dhraconus wrote...
They reap to reproduce.
Simple and logical. No reason to over complicate the issue.
My explaination, since they are bio-synthetic.
Don't get me wrong, I disliked the ending but I think that a simple explanation would contradict the "We trancend your very understanding" thing Soverign said.
Well they still would, I can't imagine what a Reapers intelligence or understanding of the universe would be like with the power of millions of minds merged into one sentient ship.
#60
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:12
nicksmi56
-
- Members
- 410 messages
"We are beyond your comprehension." What was so bad about this?
#61
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:12
SkitSkit
-
- Members
- 175 messages
Soveregn said that: "Your technology develops along the paths we desire"... so I said to the star child, If you force us down the path towards that particular kind of technological singularity ofcourse the synthetics will rise against us! what are you bat **** insane!?! You're killing us for YOUR mistakes that you are FORCING us to repeat! And not only that, we've found a way to co exist with synthetics in this cycle. One of my best friends is a synthetic for god sake! Get The **** Out of my galaxy you mother****ing idiot!
Yeah, my shepard swears a little bit, in my mind Mindor was populated by Australian Jackaroos
now, saying that, i don't mind that the reapers are using circular logic, i'd just like to call them out on it. The rest of the ending is much worse anyway.
Yeah, my shepard swears a little bit, in my mind Mindor was populated by Australian Jackaroos
now, saying that, i don't mind that the reapers are using circular logic, i'd just like to call them out on it. The rest of the ending is much worse anyway.
#62
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:12
The Angry One
-
- Members
- 22 246 messages
www.youtube.com/watch
Listen to this. Listen to this a thousand times.
This is all a Reaper ever needed to be.
Listen to this. Listen to this a thousand times.
This is all a Reaper ever needed to be.
#63
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:12
idunhavaname
-
- Members
- 502 messages
Reapers are tools for greater purposes to prevent a catastorphic nightmare that may or may not happen thus the "We are your salvation through destruction" and "Bla bla bla you can't comprehend us" or something (player won't know what this catastrophe is). Mass Relays were designed as a "trap". They reap every 50,000 years for civilizations to advance but not too advanced where they would become a threat. Since a reaper is formed everytime they harvest a species, their number grows per cycle (similar to amassing an army).
Some may ask "Well why don't Reaper just tell organics?". Reaper "creator" may see organic as too weak with only way to prevent this possible catastrophe is to turn organics life into reapers themselves.
Some may ask "Well why don't Reaper just tell organics?". Reaper "creator" may see organic as too weak with only way to prevent this possible catastrophe is to turn organics life into reapers themselves.
Modifié par idunhavaname, 19 mars 2012 - 02:14 .
#64
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:13
RoboticWater
-
- Members
- 2 358 messages
No, I think that their motivations should be explicable but not too simple. The reapers think you're stupid not brainless.DrDetective wrote...
BlahDog wrote...
The phrase "better to try and fail than never try at all" comes to mind. While the endings are most certainly terrible, I don't think a "we just like killing things" ending would be well recieved either.Bigdoser wrote...
I got an answer simply don't give them a motivation. I liked my cthulhu death machines surronded in mystery.
But we were explicitly told that we could not possibly understand their motivations. Not explaining it leaves that as a possibility.
#65
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:13
Liber320
-
- Members
- 1 333 messages
Organic life is their sustinance. They wait until a species is advanced enough so they can also take that species' unique technological innovations and integrate/learn from whatever they deem useful.
#66
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:14
NightHawkIL
-
- Members
- 301 messages
No, it's to come up with your own ideas, not BioWare's. Saying they should have no motovation that we can understand is not providing an original thought for an actual motivation, it's just saying you don't want to know.NPH11 wrote...
NightHawkIL wrote...
This is a place to discuss possible motivations, not whether there should be any or not.
But that isn't the point of this topic at all. This topic is intended to restrict the scope of our potential motivations to the stupid scope that Bioware provided. Our motivations have just as much creedence.
So many have brought up that we can't know the reaper's motivation because Sovreign said their thoughts are outside of our comprehension, but that's total BS. We may not be able to understand their complex reasoning but we can still understand the outline of any thought.
For example, if telling a 2 year old about your work you say:
'I design software meant to make more responsive fuel injectors', there's no way a 2yr old could understand it, it's outside of their comprehension.
You could however say, 'I help make cars go faster'. They could understand that, even though the full description of what you do is outside their understanding.
There is absolutely no reason we couldn't understand the basics of why the reapers do what they do.
#67
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:15
deaditegonzo102
-
- Members
- 67 messages
adam_nox wrote...
1. The motivation can't be based in selfishness of the reapers.
2. The motivation must make logical sense and stand up to the same criticisms leveled at the current explanations.
3. The motivation must provide some sort of greater good/utilitarianism or be absolutely necessary as part of some goal that is grand in scope.
Um, your parameters for this dont make any sense. Why cant their motivation be selfish? Why does it need to be for the greater good? Because the Reapers claim to have altruistic reasons? Wouldnt any good villain claim (lie) to have noble reasons?
#68
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:15
RoboticWater
-
- Members
- 2 358 messages
I'm sort of taking that out of context but when you ask why they're doing this they never answer. I think that the reaper's motivations should be something interesting so the reason they never tell you isn't just because they're just jerks.MPSai wrote...
Well they still would, I can't imagine what a Reapers intelligence or understanding of the universe would be like with the power of millions of minds merged into one sentient ship.
Modifié par BlahDog, 19 mars 2012 - 02:16 .
#69
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:16
SkitSkit
-
- Members
- 175 messages
Liber320 wrote...
Organic life is their sustinance. They wait until a species is advanced enough so they can also take that species' unique technological innovations and integrate/learn from whatever they deem useful.
WE ARE THE BORG
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED
YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL ADAVANTAGES WILL BE ADDED TO OUR OWN
YOUR CULTURE WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE
Ya know, i could live with that
#70
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:16
Warlock Adam
-
- Members
- 413 messages
Actually, yeah. They shouldn't have given us a motivation; this is the part where speculation by fans would have been cool. Cause then we get all these debates about who created the Reapers, and why, and where they came from, and there's hooks for plots in the future there. After ME2, they should have left that unexplained.
Instead they gave us the Catalyst bulls**t (organics and synthetics must destroy each other? What in God's name are you talking about, you troglodyte space dwarf?) and left everything ELSE unexplained.
Instead they gave us the Catalyst bulls**t (organics and synthetics must destroy each other? What in God's name are you talking about, you troglodyte space dwarf?) and left everything ELSE unexplained.
#71
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:17
Adam Walsh
-
- Members
- 89 messages
SkitSkit wrote...
Yeah, my shepard swears a little bit, in my mind Mindor was populated by Australian Jackaroos
That's just us Aussies in general. We are the only country where you can say "Oi C**t" or "Get F***ed" mean hello.
#72
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:18
Narsilsword
-
- Members
- 276 messages
IS the point of this to prove Bioware wrote themselves into a corner>
#73
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:18
SkitSkit
-
- Members
- 175 messages
Adam Walsh wrote...
SkitSkit wrote...
Yeah, my shepard swears a little bit, in my mind Mindor was populated by Australian Jackaroos
That's just us Aussies in general. We are the only country where you can say "Oi C**t" or "Get F***ed" mean hello.
Maaaate, MAAAAte, mate
Kevin 'Bloody' Wilson mate
Modifié par SkitSkit, 19 mars 2012 - 02:19 .
#74
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:19
Skirlasvoud
-
- Members
- 526 messages
Reapers getting rid of Organic life just messing around and wasting resources.
Mineral deposits are kinda scarse and even the suns don't have infinite life. It's a shame if organics just use their time to make war, muddle along and achieve nothing. So, the reapers are sent in the wipe out the current species after a set amount of time. If they cannot defeat the reapers, than they're not doing enough to warrant their existence and the resources they use.
Better free up that space for something better, again and again...
Untill one cycle, where there is actually a species with enough strength to stand up against them. That is the species that can truly become the zenith of evolution. Paragon shepard does that by uniting the galaxy, Renegade through force of strength.
Such a person (the cataclyst) has deserved the right to shut the reapers down and decide what's up.
Who has created the reapers? Probably a previous galaxy, or a neighbouring galaxy were all resources were depleted and the creators regretting organic life not amounting to more. They designed it as a way to test the rest of the galaxy and prune it.
That explains all Sovereign/Harbinger's hubris about force evolving humanity.
Mineral deposits are kinda scarse and even the suns don't have infinite life. It's a shame if organics just use their time to make war, muddle along and achieve nothing. So, the reapers are sent in the wipe out the current species after a set amount of time. If they cannot defeat the reapers, than they're not doing enough to warrant their existence and the resources they use.
Better free up that space for something better, again and again...
Untill one cycle, where there is actually a species with enough strength to stand up against them. That is the species that can truly become the zenith of evolution. Paragon shepard does that by uniting the galaxy, Renegade through force of strength.
Such a person (the cataclyst) has deserved the right to shut the reapers down and decide what's up.
Who has created the reapers? Probably a previous galaxy, or a neighbouring galaxy were all resources were depleted and the creators regretting organic life not amounting to more. They designed it as a way to test the rest of the galaxy and prune it.
That explains all Sovereign/Harbinger's hubris about force evolving humanity.
Modifié par Skirlasvoud, 19 mars 2012 - 02:20 .
#75
Posté 19 mars 2012 - 02:20
FlyinElk212
-
- Members
- 2 598 messages
The Angry One wrote...
www.youtube.com/watch
Listen to this. Listen to this a thousand times.
This is all a Reaper ever needed to be.
Which kinda sounds like the explanation we got in ME3, particularly around 1:10......
Seriously, all Bioware needed to do was say, "At the apex of civilization's glory, we Reap them to protect the galaxy from a potential galactic nuclear holocaust. Organic life will always war with each other- the problem is freedom of will and choice. We Reap to prevent these warring civilizations from ever reaching a technological point that could destroy the galaxy."
None of this "DERP SYNTHETICS VS. ORGANICS" crap.
Modifié par FlyinElk212, 19 mars 2012 - 02:21 .
