223 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

Narsilsword wrote...

IS the point of this to prove Bioware wrote themselves into a corner>

Doubtful, because they didn't. Nothing in Mass Effect 1, 2 or 3 before the godawful Catalyst sequence required that the Reapers motivations be explained.
What we did know is that they cull civilisations after guiding them, and use the various species for their own ends whether it be to produce more Reapers or create thralls to do their bidding.

Was there anything more they really needed to add? You know what Mr. Walters doesn't seem to get is that this is the kind of speculation that can do a story some good.

Modifié par The Angry One, 19 mars 2012 - 02:21 .

[Darthlawsuit]

Lets see- Mass effect fields create dark energy (ME1 codex). Eventually dark energy builds up to critical levels.If the levels of dark energy reach a certain level then all organic life will become more and more irradiated with dark energy. Eventually it kills all organic life. Therefore we must kill all organic life capable of using the mass effect and stop the build up of dark energy so that other organic species are capable of evolving and evolution will continue. Reapers consume huge amounts of dark energy and store it inside of them during the production of a reaper.  In ME2 they commented on how the collectors are irradiated with dark energy.

#2. Prevent one organic lifeform from dominating the galaxy and preventing the evolution of lesser evolved species.

Modifié par Darthlawsuit, 19 mars 2012 - 02:22 .

[NightHawkIL]

Skirlasvoud wrote...


Reapers getting rid of Organic life just messing around and wasting resources.


Mineral deposits are kinda scarse and even the suns don't have infinite life. It's a shame if organics just use their time to make war, muddle along and achieve nothing. So, the reapers are sent in the wipe out the current species after a set amount of time. If they cannot defeat the reapers, than they're not doing enough to warrant their existence and the resources they use.

Better free up that space for something better, again and again...

Untill one cycle, where there is actually a species with enough strength to stand up against them. That is the species that can truly become the zenith of evolution. Paragon shepard does that by uniting the galaxy, Renegade through force of strength.

Such a person (the cataclyst) has deserved the right to shut the reapers down and decide what's up.



Who has created the reapers? Probably a previous galaxy, or a neighbouring galaxy were all resources were depleted and the creators regretting organic life not amounting to more. They designed it as a way to test the rest of the galaxy and prune it.

That explains all Sovereign/Harbinger's hubris about force evolving humanity.

Not bad. Not my favorite so far, but it could be made to work.

[colateral]

This is simply my interpretation on how the issue should have been handled. Some similar concepts but mostly my own idea.

The original galactic civilization created an Artificial Intelligence species, similar to the geth, that eventually overpowered them and threatened to destroy not only their civilization but all life in the Galaxy. To stop this from happening they turned themselves into the very first reaper, Harbinger. However, Harbinger, now a gestalt intellect representing an entire civilization of knowledge, believed that eventually future races would make a similar mistake--their mistake. They felt that any future civilization would mirror their actions, would make the same choices, and would not risk it happening. The cycle that Harbinger developed allowed enough time for a new civilization to rise to the same level of development that their civilization had previously possessed and presented them with the ultimate trial by fire. If the civilization had made the same errors in judgement, the same mistakes, then the Reapers would ensure that they perish before they risk the destruction of the entire galaxy. However, if the time came when a civilization rose to the challenge and made their own choices, dared to tread a new path, then the reapers would know that this new civilization would not make the same mistake that they had--that the galaxy would be safe in their care. Shepard represents that civilization capable of making the choice to forge a new destiny outside of the reapers designs and therefore proved that the reapers cycle was at an end.

It's just a rough idea but I think it has some potential, especially if given further thought and development. Personally I feel that it gives a humanizing element to this unknowable evil force which helps the player to connect deeper with the story. True they must be stopped but when it comes down to it they are simply the thing they claim to guard against--a failed civilization dooming the galaxy, and that I think gives their motivation some tragic sympathy.

[Sellara]

There does not NEED to be a motive. They are unknowable. This is what makes them truly alien sinister and awesome. Think about it.

[gooberfish311]

Im not sure I wouldve tried. Too much of a risk of ending up with the Mass Effect equivalent of Midichlorians, which is what happened with the reaper god kid.

[devSin]

I could buy propagation, but I would much rather they not tried to give them any motivation that can be explained.

The Reapers are a problem because of what they do. Unless you're expecting to agree with them, there's no reason you need to know why they do it.

[noobcannon]

i thought they harvested us to build more reapers and to keep evolving. that's what i got out of them building a human reaper and turning colonists into goo. am i wrong in assuming this?

the whole "we kill you every 50,000 years so synthetics don't kill you" crap that spaceboy talks about was complete bull****.

[Giguelingueling]

Easy : you don't give any because they are beyond what our mind can comprehend. Even Legion couldn't understand a single of their thought

[ChaosPudding]

The Reapers were originally supposed to evoke feelings of Lovecraftian beings. They're fundamentally unknowable to "lesser" beings. Therefor, we don't need to know their motivations. Only that they mean to kill us all, and that if we want the right to survive, we need to kill them.

[HKR148]

Most of us didn't even care if Reaper's motivation was unknown.

[Elyiia]

1) Dark energy explanation works.
2) Reproduction also works.
3) I'd prefer to not know rather than "We're going to process you so synthetics don't kill you"
4) Because they are the bag in which a feminine hygiene product comes in.
5) Even a scenario where "Heretics say, one is less than two. Geth say, two is less than three" is involved without someone to stop the virus honestly makes more sense to me.

[Dessalines]

adam_nox wrote...

The endings have lots of problems, but I see an underlying theme with a lot of criticism being tossed around, and that's discontent with ANY interpretation of 'why' the reapers do their reaping.  I tend to think that most people just can't handle the idea of wiping out everything.  It's just too much for them to take, so any reason put forth to explain why they do it is shot down or claimed to have plot holes or rely on space magic.

Here's your chance to prove me wrong.  Shepard asks starkid why the reapers do what they do.  It's your turn to answer in his place, but there are rules (otherwise your answer will suck on a storytelling level and be inconsistent with themes from the game and bioware's style).

1.  The motivation can't be based in selfishness of the reapers.
2.  The motivation must make logical sense and stand up to the same criticisms leveled at the current explanations.
3.  The motivation must provide some sort of greater good/utilitarianism or be absolutely necessary as part of some goal that is grand in scope.

good luck.

I don't understand why it has to be number 1 or 3?
The reapers and darkspawn are basically the same illian.  It just one talks more. They are both ancient evils that appear on a cycle. They both used other creatures as hybrid soldiers. The leaders are both huge. The darkspawn motives are selfish, so that is bioware's style, and there is nothing in the other two chapters of Mass Effect that stated that Reaper could not have self-motives. There is nothing states that it has to truly be for the greater good. There is nothing that has shown that the Reapers are bastion of honesty; in fact, everything has showed that the Reapers are manipulators on a grand scale, and that they do not value life as we know it.  We look at literature, you do not ttake a character's point of view as valid, unless the author has clearly defined that view as valid. in the confines of the literature. This is not the case with Mass Effect.

[pharsti]

I dont care about the explanation we were given, was it faulty? Somewhat, but the whole scene was.

No one can prove the starchild was wrong, or right.

For me, id rather the reapers stayed the big bads they were on the first and second game.
THAT was something that needed no explanation.

[ashwind]

Sovereign: You exists because we allow it. You will end because we demand it. You ask why? Because we feel like it. Because we are bored. And oh, most importantly, because WE CAN.

[RogueBot]

The Reapers were great villains without giving them some lackluster backstory. Everything about them-- their otherworldliness, their ability to turn your own kind against you through mutation and mind control, and their sick form of reproduction was MORE than enough to make them impressive villains.

I have no idea why Bioware would abandon something that was clearly working and compelling. It's like the entire writing staff threw out everything that was working in the last 15 minutes of the game, and the Reaper's backstory is the least of their mistakes.

Modifié par RogueBot, 19 mars 2012 - 02:28 .

[JPN17]

The reaper's motivations are supposedly beyond our comprehension. IMO that means their motivations did not have to be explained. The problem is the writers did attempt to explain that with circular logic that makes zero sense while leaving so many other questions that aren't incomprehensible unanswered. But for me personally, never learning the reaper's motivations would have been okay. As Vigil said survival depends on stopping them not in understanding them.

[liggy002]

You want a Reaper motivation I'll give you one:

They want to make themselves stronger and more superior than anything else in the Universe by absorbing the races they consider to be the most genetically superior of their time. They don't care about the means, all that matters to them is the end. They also don't care about synthetics destroying organics. They leave the younger races alone so that they can develop over thousands at years at which time, they will absorb their genetic material and continue the cycle indefinitely. They only let the races advance so far so that they won't be technologically advanced enough to threaten and destroy the Reapers.   It's a fact that those who are more genetically diverse are more suitable to survival in a harsh environment. And what is a more harsh environment than deep space? Additionally, there may be more underlying and sinister motivations that should not be explained as Bigdoser commented. The mystery adds to the overall magic of the universe. Although, if they had a beginning, I would like to know what it was.

Modifié par liggy002, 19 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[Ricvenart]

Why can't it be based in reapers selfishness?

Why can't it be, they harvest to survive (and expand/make up for losses (ie. Human Reaper))?
Or They think they are the pinnicle of existance (which they do seem to) therefore want to ascend all life that reaches Point X or Kill all life before it may become a challenge/think nothing should be given the chance too?

Why must a genocidal being be telling the truth when it makes claims about it doing others a favour?

Modifié par Ricvenart, 19 mars 2012 - 02:28 .

[ShotyMcFat]

 the reapers rebelled against their creaters and decided to erradicate them compeletly in fear of being shutdown (sort of similar to the geth). As a last ditch effort their creators tryed to reprogram and control the reapers, but all they could do was rewrite their motives so they reprogramed them to erradicate all advanced life every 50,000 years in order to stop the reapers themselves from expanding outside the galaxy and destoying all life, hoping that sacrificing the galaxy allows all other galaxies with life (if any) to not get erraditated by the reapers.

[TheGunslinger]

Bigdoser wrote...

Dhraconus wrote...

They reap to reproduce.

Simple and logical. No reason to over complicate the issue.

This person has nailed it. 

[Zardoc]

They're dicks. Case closed.

[RoboticWater]

devSin wrote...

I could buy propagation, but I would much rather they not tried to give them any motivation that can be explained.

The Reapers are a problem because of what they do. Unless you're expecting to agree with them, there's no reason you need to know why they do it.

But I do want to agree with them. Just because they klll things doesn't mean they're inexplicably evil. They're like the geth in ME1 where you didn't know why they were evil, you just assumed they were robots that were inherently so.

If a geth came up to you and said they were beyond your imagination (and the quarians didn't say they made them) you would have accepted the self defense theory wiht open arms.

In fact, that seems to be a good explanation. The reapers were once part of a galactic community (supposedly they became reapers to become trancendent) then the others attacked them. And being hyper efficient, they decided to make more reapers. The rest of the attacks were so that no speicies would ever come and kill them.

Not the best explanation but it is interesting.

Modifié par BlahDog, 19 mars 2012 - 02:31 .

[Nigawatts]

I always liked the idea that the Reapers were the physical manifestation of a...

http://tvtropes.org/...itchAbomination

[Phoenix Phire 13]

Eh, I always thought the Reapers goal was to prevent the destruction of all organic life, whether it be from themselves (devastating bio-weapon) or from synthetics. They would be the "reset" button that would prevent organic life from growing so powerful that it could wipe itself out, while still allowing life to exist by encouraging new races to form.

I imagined that the first reapers were created by a powerful civilization on its last breaths, torn apart by war and racial tensions. This race created the ultra-powerful reapers and uploaded themselves into them. The first reapers then built the citadel. I think the point bioware should emphasize (if they were to use this motivation) would be that the Reapers don't want organic life to be destroyed, they actually want it to continue indefinitely. The Reapers have a pessimistic view on civilization though, thinking it always leads to mass destruction

Disagreeing with the reapers and attempting to destroy them would show an optimistic belief in civilization and unity. The final decision could show an interpretation on reaper philosophy. Shepard could either:

A. Believe that the only way that destruction can be avoided is through a single race (similar to the synthesis ending). Shepard would activate the mass relays as a carrier for a virus which changes host DNA to be similar to that of human DNA (yes, I know, you need suspension of belief for this one). The Reapers leave this more united galaxy alone. This would be the renegade choice.

or

B. Have faith in galactic diversity. Put the crucible into overcharge and destroy all reapers, but doing so sacrifices earth and the sol system (but not without warning the fleet first). This would be the paragon ending. Sacrifice the few (humanity) for the greater good of diversity.