223 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic Budah]

adam_nox wrote...

The endings have lots of problems, but I see an underlying theme with a lot of criticism being tossed around, and that's discontent with ANY interpretation of 'why' the reapers do their reaping.  I tend to think that most people just can't handle the idea of wiping out everything.  It's just too much for them to take, so any reason put forth to explain why they do it is shot down or claimed to have plot holes or rely on space magic.

Here's your chance to prove me wrong.  Shepard asks starkid why the reapers do what they do.  It's your turn to answer in his place, but there are rules (otherwise your answer will suck on a storytelling level and be inconsistent with themes from the game and bioware's style).

1.  The motivation can't be based in selfishness of the reapers.
2.  The motivation must make logical sense and stand up to the same criticisms leveled at the current explanations.
3.  The motivation must provide some sort of greater good/utilitarianism or be absolutely necessary as part of some goal that is grand in scope.

good luck.

The Reapers are technology run amok. The Keepers created the Reapers to keep order in the galaxy. If they saw a race getting out of line they sent the Reapers in to wipe them out before they caused any trouble. Putting their essence into the Reapers was in their view not killing the race, but providing order for it. The master program on the Citadel or Harbinger became self aware and saw that all organic life caused chaos in the galaxy, including the Keepers. Once it assumed control of the Reapers it enslaved the Keepers and then went on with the galactic genocide over the milenia. 

[elmephd1]

I second not knowing the Reapers motivations. If it's beyond our understanding it should BE beyond our understanding. They should be the space cthulu, with no real beginning and no real end and totally alien.

[Intomydimension]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Megachaz wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

The dark energy one worked fantastically well.

I completely disagree.  When I heard about the "dark energy" thing, I thought it was probably the only thing that could possibly be worse than what we have now.

Your opinion. Makes a hell of a lot more sense than:

sounds absurd, but think about it or analyze it, you can take out a lot of sense.
to me sounded like **** at first but makes sense if you think

[The Night Mammoth]

The Reapers evolved to a point where their technological mastery allowed them to solve any problems they might encounter. This lead them to believe that the machine is superior, so their only way to advance was to become like machines, Reapers. They see themselves as the apex of evolution, the pinnacle of advancement. All species are inferior, worth nothing but to add to the Reaper's strength. No other can be allowed to challenge them, so, every 50,000 years, they enter the galaxy to 'test' the other species to determine any possible strengths, melting them down to create new Reapers and advance the species as whole. They see this as helping the other species become like them, saving them from the inadequacies of an organic form.

[NightHawkIL]

Grasich wrote...

I don't really see why they need a motivation. This is one instance where I think "Lots of speculation for everyone" works very well. They SHOULD be mysterious otherworldly beings that are totally unknowable to organics. ME2 handled this very well, giving them lots of POSSIBLE motivations, without really saying "This is why they do it!".

imo, of course.

I would have been able to get past not being given any reasoning for them prior to ME3. After the reason we have now been given though, that's the reason I will remember if we don't get anything to over write it with. Since the current reason is @#$%in' stupid, I sure would like to have a new one.

Something of note: You may have interpreted multiple possible motivations for the reapers in ME2, but in fact, during the time of that game's writing there was a firm motivation planned (dark energy spread). Tali's mission researching the burning out sun was meant to be forshadowing to a plot line that never made it to ME3.

[GiaOmerta]

Dhraconus wrote...

They reap to reproduce.

Simple and logical. No reason to over complicate the issue.

This is kinda tied in with their current purpose - preventing technological singularity. By only harvesting advanced societies, they are preventing the rise of synthetic life that could graygoo the galaxy and are adding to their conservatively adding to their numbers.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The Protheans won their war against their synthetics, and this is why the Prothean reaper failed.

Reapers are the result of the synthetics winning their war against their creators who created the mass relays and Citadel a billion years ago. They harvested their creators into these machines, organic/computer AI construct space ships. What is left of their creators are the Keepers. However their programming is rigid it is not adaptive. Their strength is in size and power. They evolve by assimilating new innovations of new advanced organics they harvest to make new reapers. They essentially farm the galaxy. Organics are their crops.

The little twerp on the Citadel, called the Catalyst tells you lies and is interested in one thing... its survival. So it is doing its best to indoctrinate you. The blue and green endings are indoctrination. The blue one is indoctrination at its finest. The green one sends the reapers to the great junk yard in the sky since all life is now synthetic goop reformed, and this is supposed to be the compromise between indoctrination and destruction -- still salvation through destruction except not in a ship. Everyone is one big synthetic DNA. No genetic diversity. Just looks different.

Red? It ceases to exist.

Hey, it's as good as any.

[RedMike512]

Your criteria are stupid. They essentially assume the reapers aren't evil. You're essentially saying, create a good motivation that makes sense but also doesn't make the reapers look bad.

[Jandi]

It's completely believable that an AI programmed to preserve life would come to such a conclusion. Preserve the essence of a species in synthetic form. Not because they would otherwise be killed by AI, mind you, that's dumb. If the Reapers have the power to cleanse the galaxy of advanced civilizations and their tech, they could just as easily be guardians. To prevent organics from killing off each other with viruses, blowing up suns etc, that would actually make sense but, again, they could just as well act as guardians.

There is one reasonable argument towards what they are doing, though. To prevent species from going completely extinct, like the Rachi have. That would be the only case where preservation in the form that the reapers do it would make sense.

They could just as easily police the galaxy against aggressive species, such as the Krogan. A reaper landing on Tuchanka, telling the Krogans to either stop their aggression or be obliterated would be more than enough, never mind an entire fleet. Geth uprising? Get a fleet of Reapers to cleanse the planet of technology and tell the Quarians either learn from their mistakes or follow their creations.

[Militarized]

Here's my version though I demand a *CAUTION* sign... I must express that I wanted them to remain mysterious and unknown, we didn't HAVE to know... they represented cosmicism to me.

Reaper Reasoning:

The Reapers see us as a mistake, an accident, in a galaxy that revolves around the order of Mathematics. Our very existence, based on DNA, is chaotic with our mutations and evolution based on our environment, etc, etc. Once we reach a certain technological level, the Reapers view us as imposing our Chaos on THEIR(or the Galaxies) Order.

This explains why they leave the Relays and the Citadel, they impose Order on our Chaos... force us to be predictable and before we outgrow the order they instill, they wipe us out, pushing the "reset" button so we are no longer causing Chaos.

Obviously they use some organics as tools to maintain order, and certain species(like humans) who show a tendency of being "special" will be ascended into Reaper form... turning chaos into Order yet again.

Good? Bad? Compliments? Insults? have at.

[Zine2]

BlahDog->

I'm not comparing Reapers with Zombies (although Reapers do employ plenty of tactics that mirror a Zombie Apocalypse).

I am pointing out that you do not need a motivation to be a compelling villain. It doesn't matter if you think Zombies are stupid compared to Reapers. The fact that Zombies are well-used villains despite having no motivation other than OMNOM proves that the idea that you need a good villain motivation is stupid.

[Emberwake]

To everyone saying that the reapers shouldn't have a motivation: that ship has sailed. It is established in ME2 that they are reproducing. They are almost literally screwing the galaxy.

Hold the line.

[TransientNomad]

They believe they were helping organics by making us like them. Sort of like forcing evolution or "uplifting" a lesser species. That would explain the harvesting aspect of their MO and would fit in with established themes such as the Salarian's uplifting the Krogan.

Another idea is the concept of free choice denies the order they demand with almost a religeous zealotry. Again, this would fit in with the running theme OF choice established over they entire trilogy. Sheperd AND the player thrive off free choice and difference. The Reapers then would become not only a enemy of Sheperd, but also the enemy of the running theme of the franchise.

Another idea is they literally view organics as a biological disease upon the universe and they are the cure. The white blood cells in a "sick" galaxy. How b_d_ss would it be if you go through the ending (assuming we actually got a better one) and learn the Reapers actually do this to other galaxies in the universe, not just the Milky Way? That would be a twist everyone could get behind!

Nearly anything would be better than the "motivation" we got at the end.

Hold the Line

Modifié par TransientNomad, 19 mars 2012 - 03:06 .

[NightHawkIL]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

The Reapers evolved to a point where their technological mastery allowed them to solve any problems they might encounter. This lead them to believe that the machine is superior, so their only way to advance was to become like machines, Reapers. They see themselves as the apex of evolution, the pinnacle of advancement. All species are inferior, worth nothing but to add to the Reaper's strength. No other can be allowed to challenge them, so, every 50,000 years, they enter the galaxy to 'test' the other species to determine any possible strengths, melting them down to create new Reapers and advance the species as whole. They see this as helping the other species become like them, saving them from the inadequacies of an organic form.

I like that one, it makes a lot of sense with the termanology the reapers use when they speak. Salvation through destruction and such. It would be some enritching detail to a thought I had as well in my post earlier:

NightHawkIL wrote...
They could believe they are gods - playing a role of directing evolution along the paths they believe are superior. They could be doing this to either; 1) create the a supreme form of life, which they might see as their duty as gods, or 2) simply be directing evolution to create creatures they can harvest to enrich their own knowledge or form.

 

[Risselda]

You know, to be honest, I think the simplicity of not knowing their intentions would be my preference. That would give them a much more 'superior, ethereal' feel.

[Zine2]

Edit: Never mind

Modifié par Zine2, 19 mars 2012 - 03:08 .

[Skirata129]

easy, the Reapers kill all sentient life every fifty years because the use of eezo has a destabilizing effect on the ability of atoms to maintain bonds with one another. If this process goes unchecked, it's entirely possible entire systems and galaxies could begin to spontaneously combust.

this would suck, as it means the relays would have to go.

Modifié par Skirata129, 19 mars 2012 - 03:08 .

[Arken]

I'll give this a shot.




Explanation

Reapers are the final stage of evolution.

The original species, those who created the Relays, were beginning to realize that their species was dying.

They could not imagine the thought of the destruction of their race so they began to create a device that would preserve their entire race, and discover a solution to the problem.

They became Sovereign, and began to continue their existence as a Reaper.

Sovereign eventually came to the consensus that the universe is fundamentally flawed.

Organic civilizations rise up only to eventually flaw.

All organics will one day die. Everything will one day reach an end.

Sovereign realized this was a major flaw in the nature of organic life, and that only synthetic life was ever lasting.

The solution was to change the way the universe worked, and to ensure that only eternal life existed.

Sovereign entered deep space and began to hibernate for 50,000 years. Sovereign returned and discovered that, thanks the absence of the previous species, new races had been given the room to evolve and make use the technology left behind for them.

Sovereign began to harvest the new races, and convert them into Reapers to aid Sovereign in its final plan.

Sovereign ensured that the Mass Relays would began to harness dark energy for the "final solution".

Sovereign's plan was simply.

Recreate the event of the Big Bang within the Milky Way.

The entire galaxy would expand and then condense, while the Reapers waited in the safety of deep space, which would remake the galaxy,

The Reapers would return to the galaxy, and begin to recreate it so that only synthetic life existed. Organic life would not be allowed to develop which one save them from their inevitable fate of being destroyed.

Sovereign justified this through the ideal that organic life is meaningless due to it being a limited experience. Only that which is eternal has any true value, because, regardless of what organics accomplish, it will be forgotten when they eventually die out. This is constantly proved each time a Reaper cycle occurs, when no one in the next cycle truly remembers the race from the previous cycle.

Everything within the Milky Way galaxy would be synthetic. Every planet, thinking creature, and the stars would be synthetic.

Organic life is nothing more than an accident, and only that which is intentionally created has any meaning.

After the Milky Way galaxy was complete the Reapers would travel to the next galaxy, and begin the same process over again in the new galaxy.

Some Reapers would be left behind in the reborn Milky Way galaxy, to ensure the synthetic galaxy was maintained in its perfect state.




Now I personally would be happy with the Reapers not having a reason, but it's too late for that. It's been too late for a while. Sadly the mystery of the Reapers will be ruined regardless.
 

[Militarized]

Lochias WH wrote...

To everyone saying that the reapers shouldn't have a motivation: that ship has sailed. It is established in ME2 that they are reproducing. They are almost literally screwing the galaxy.

Hold the line.

I answer that in my post without having it be about reproduction  

[DarkBladeX98]

How bout this one? The Reapers come around every 50k years to harvest organics to maintain their hold this galaxy.
Say they're being controlled by a greater species outside our galaxy, and the Milky Way is one giant pool of resources, tech, and organics they can harvest without a conscience. They come around, put us down so that we don't expand beyond our galaxy and defeat them. They only do it every 50k years so that we can build up and grow enough to supply their galaxy. Maybe 50k years is like some great event in their culture, "Watch Us Conquer a Galaxy!" and its all public viewing and stuff.

Possibility. Considering the Reapers could tell us whatever the hell they wanted, we have 0 proof.

[Kloborgg711]

How about the same motivation Sovereign had in ME1? An incomprehensible one?

[RyuGuitarFreak]

You know what? I was thinking about it just today. I would try to tie up some evolution, organics x synthetics and maybe try to put dark energy into it by inserting some element zero and its functions into everything. Like reapers being the pinacle of known evolution and Harbinger being an intelligence born of both chemistry, mechanisms and coding to make calculations on the use of element zero. Then, marveled by its own discoveries and getting corrupted by it, ended up indocrinating and murdering his creators (a society of both organics and synthetics) while creating his shell and then he had no purpose but to try reproducing his kind throughout the galaxy and started building the mass relays, and expanding his kind and building more relays, etc, in hopes of ever find a new discovery and a way to evolve itself.

Something like that...

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 19 mars 2012 - 03:10 .

[MikeRoz]

They do it to reproduce and make sure no form of organic life can threaten them. The galaxy is one big farm to them. I thought ME2 did plenty to explain their motives. Sure, if you have twisted logic like the Reapers, you're 'ascending' the civilizations you destroy, and they might see that as a greater good. But none of the recipients of this 'gift' will agree.

No reason to make their motives good from an objective and utilitarian standpoint. Let them be evil, just like so many other successful villains in entertainment media. Emperor Palpatine genuinely thought he was making the galaxy a better place. The Borg can't understand why other species offer resistance. Even Cavil of nuBSG (one of the avant-garde science fiction dramas the ending was probably trying to emulate) was left holding the card-carrying villain role.

[DarkRPG]

My Theory:

The original race that created the Citadel and the Relays were the ones who created the reapers but here is their reason:

1.  They created the reaper as a solution to save their race from destruction.  The idea would be their species was dying off (disease for example), so the last survivors merged (melted down like collector's base) with a VI in a reaper body to preserve their species in all ways (history, tech, memories, etc.).  They had an empire, were the only species and probably watched over lesser species with orders to never uplift them (thus avoiding situations like the krogan).  Those that did were probably viewed as a threat, destroyed much of their infrastructer and advancement so it would take them thousands of years to readvance to the level of space flight.  Also taking what technology of use from them.

2.  Their plan was to become a reaper, wait 50,000 years for the disease to run its course and rebuild their society with those who did not become reapers.  Perhaps even had dna and clones stored at the citadel to clone their race and put them back in bodies.  Sadly the disease killed off those left behind.

3.  An automated signal from the citadel would recall them.  The citadel being turned into a giant relay for that purpose.  It never went off due to tampering by a race that had risen during their time in dark space.  Most likely the keepers.  In addition, they accidently/purposefully destroyed the DNA/Clones left at the citadel.

4.  While in dark space the VI, merged with their organic material, became a fully awaken AI.  This process corrupted its original programing and purpose and turned the "nation" into what the reapers are now.  The first was Sovereign.  Also something may have happen in dark space that caused this event.

5.  The corrupted code twisted its last commands.  When it returned 50,000 years later, it tried to "revive" its race by turning all advanced species into reapers and husks.  The first new reaper made in this 1st cycle of Harbinger, a more advanced model of Sovereign.

This all would explain much of Sovereigns speech, why they don't harvest undeveloped species, and why they aren't created because the creater and the created are the one and same (they have no beginning and no end).  The original race was at its apex when they became reapers, and advanced races become viewed as like themselves and in need of reaperfication to "save" them for all time.  A byproduct of how the original race treated others races during their time.

This could be developed more, but certain characteristics of the original race becoming integrated with the VI/AI of the reapers on why they do what they do.  Maybe it makes them less intimidating but it's better than space magic.  Also you can leave open "what changed them in dark space".