166 réponses à ce sujet

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

UK Wildcat wrote...

Solution? Nerf biotic combos. You are wrong in your original post, adepts are good against certain factions and not as good as others.

There are tons of combinations that can excel in MP to the point of rapidly clearing below 20 mins.

I remain convinced that infiltrators/soldiers have the potential for the fastest clear times, but biotics really is extremely easy and doesn't require very much skill to be effective. 

Soldiers?

Lolno. 

[kingtrouble]

Nerfing biotic combos = enjoy rebalancing a decent chuck of classes

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

PimpingPanda wrote...

D Quixote wrote...

Because you want to and it is just as viable? That's the goal of balance is a co-op game, to have all classes be viable so they won't be vote kicked out of gold because they aren't the right class. I love playing drell vanguard, for instance. Being a hit and run biotic close range fighter is a really appealing concept to me, however I get completely mowed down in gold, and that's if I don't get vote kicked first. I should be able to play the class I want and get about as good results as any other.

So next ppl will kick adept and have only soilders or infiltrators. Nerfing biotic combo will also affect vanguards which doesn't solve any problems.

Vanguards(other than the drell) are a top tier class anyways.
 
Biotic explosion nerf won't harm their gold viability. 

[kingtrouble]

Vanguards only profit and increase in value when they have an adept with them. Sorry but every good vanguard I've ran with always loved me either warping his target or stasis his target since on detonation those effects spread to the surrounding area. Anything that can trigger.a biotic detonation would have to be rebalanced this includes the entire adept class, sentinels, and vanguards. Also the fact that there biotic skills would have to be rebalanced means that the tech combos would need to be rebalanced as well. Your not just effecting a small area of change but one of the core machanocs of the game.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

kingtrouble wrote...

Vanguards only profit and increase in value when they have an adept with them. Sorry but every good vanguard I've ran with always loved me either warping his target or stasis his target since on detonation those effects spread to the surrounding area. Anything that can trigger.a biotic detonation would have to be rebalanced this includes the entire adept class, sentinels, and vanguards. Also the fact that there biotic skills would have to be rebalanced means that the tech combos would need to be rebalanced as well. Your not just effecting a small area of change but one of the core machanocs of the game.

Your talking as if Biotic combos would be removed completley.
 
Vanguards will be in no danger of sucking by a simple biotic explosion damage nerf. They don't need an adept to be good on gold. They just need to slam the charge button repeatedly. 

[PimpingPanda]

If they do nerf biotic explosion. I just hope they buff up the guns. So I can make a super rambo solider build.

[wilzoon]

PimpingPanda wrote...

If they do nerf biotic explosion. I just hope they buff up the guns. So I can make a super rambo solider build.

Or buff up the tech burst, so that I can appreciate human engie more 

[frustratemyself]

Why say only Adepts are too power? Everything's too powerful. Bw should nerf the crap out of everything and make all the characters carry supersoaker waterguns and dress in snuggy soft pyjamas instead to make it a real challenge.

[Cuddlezarro]

frustratemyself wrote...

Why say only Adepts are too power? Everything's too powerful. Bw should nerf the crap out of everything and make all the characters carry supersoaker waterguns and dress in snuggy soft pyjamas instead to make it a real challenge.

the geth pulse rifle is weaker than a supersoaker >_>

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

frustratemyself wrote...

Why say only Adepts are too power? Everything's too powerful. Bw should nerf the crap out of everything and make all the characters carry supersoaker waterguns and dress in snuggy soft pyjamas instead to make it a real challenge.

It's not so much that the damage in it self is too high.


It's that the damge is too high when compared to other methods of slaughter. Thus imbalance. 

[D Quixote]

PimpingPanda wrote...

So next ppl will kick adept and have only soilders or infiltrators. Nerfing biotic combo will also affect vanguards which doesn't solve any problems.

It's ok, reading comprehension can be hard for some people; I'll try to explain better. There are certain parts of the game that are very clearly overpowered (carnifex, biotic explosions) and others that are underpowered (any automatic weapon, singularity in comparison to stasis). Idealy, these would be balanced so that every item and class is equally valued at high level play. This is an incredibly lofty goal and not one that's likely to be met, but it's important that we try.

Biotic combos are important part of the gameplay in mass effect and should remain as such. They should still be very high damage powers, but not game breakingly as they are now. A numbers nerf would not kill biotic classes, and if you think it would then you are being way too dramatic. Biotic combos can more than afford a nerf and be completely viable.

Don't misunderstand and think that I'm saying combos should be nerfed and then everything is fine. Combos should be nerfed and so should other aspects of the game. It takes work to balance a game, and a lot of input is needed, but you have to realize that biotic combos are simply too powerful in their current state.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Nerf threads are always fun because you can tell who plays the class that the thread is referring to.

[PimpingPanda]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Nerf threads are always fun because you can tell who plays the class that the thread is referring to.

And who doesn't.

[kingtrouble]

Mysterious. Any vanguard that slams charge 24/7 on gd is a bad vanguard. Knowing when to charge in and get out is a key thing and being able to read the situation is another thing. I also never said vanguards suck if they don have an adept. I said they before better since biotic charge works as a detonator and this helps increase the dps of the group. I said if biotic combos were to be nerfed they would have to work a way around a change to a core machanic since it effects a sizable amount of classes. And yes they should buff tech burst or IMO make it hit a larger area than biotics since tech combos are harder to pull off.

[Xycolian]

Why do people complain about balance in a coop game?

it boggles the ****ing mind

[kingtrouble]

Because balance in any multiplayer game is key in ensuring the game longevity.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Xycolian wrote...

Why do people complain about balance in a coop game?

it boggles the ****ing mind

What boggles the ****ing mind is that people don't understand why balance matters in a co-op game when it's been explained to people like you 1000 times. 

[Tajz]

I think weapon based class need some love. (Especially soldier)

[Star fury]

D Quixote wrote...
 There are certain parts of the game that are very clearly overpowered (carnifex, biotic explosions) and others that are underpowered (any automatic weapon, singularity in comparison to stasis).

Okay, tell us then how to fight the reapers with nerfed biotic explosions. Do you know to kill banshees fast without BE?

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Star fury wrote...

D Quixote wrote...
 There are certain parts of the game that are very clearly overpowered (carnifex, biotic explosions) and others that are underpowered (any automatic weapon, singularity in comparison to stasis).

Okay, tell us then how to fight the reapers with nerfed biotic explosions. Do you know to kill banshees fast without BE?

Rockets. focus fire? 

[Crimson-Engage]

Adepts are fine. Low shields and in order to even use their powers they have to sacrifice weapons because they can't carry a lot.

[Mysterious Stranger 0.0]

Crimson-Engage wrote...

Adepts are fine. Low shields and in order to even use their powers they have to sacrifice weapons because they can't carry a lot.

Your shields don't matter on gold. 

THey all go down in one hit anyways. 

[kingtrouble]

Star fury wrote...

D Quixote wrote...
 There are certain parts of the game that are very clearly overpowered (carnifex, biotic explosions) and others that are underpowered (any automatic weapon, singularity in comparison to stasis).

Okay, tell us then how to fight the reapers with nerfed biotic explosions. Do you know to kill banshees fast without BE?

Took one down pretty damn quick with 2 salarian infiltrators. Think I only went through 2 cloak cycles. 

[D Quixote]

Star fury wrote...

D Quixote wrote...
 There are certain parts of the game that are very clearly overpowered (carnifex, biotic explosions) and others that are underpowered (any automatic weapon, singularity in comparison to stasis).

Okay, tell us then how to fight the reapers with nerfed biotic explosions. Do you know to kill banshees fast without BE?

I understand that just saying nerf without any real numbers can be hard to really grasp. It's easy to make the assumption that I'm saying that biotic explosions should be equivalent to throwing agitated grasshoppers by saying nerf, however that assumption is incorrect. When a banshee can go from being downed in 10 seconds of focus fire with an adept, to over 30 without, it's a clear sign that something is wrong. If the balance were closer it would take 20 seconds for the banshee to die with or without biotic explosions. Also, these numbers are pure generalisation and not to be taken literally, as I'm sure someone would assume.

[Burnham1]

Kopikatsu wrote...

ReVision92 wrote...

WHY ARE PEOPLE SAYING classES ARE OP IN NON-COMPETITIVE MULTIPLAYER

Because sitting behind a wall while three Asari Adepts blow the **** out of everything and I get to do absolutely nothing unless I play a class that I hate is bothersome. As is getting kicked from Reaper Gold matches because I don't want to play Asari Adept/Human Sentinel.

Variety is the spice of life. Four Salarian Infiltrators for Cerberus, Four Quarian Infiltrators for Geth, and Four Asari Adepts for Reapers is not variety.

It will always be this way. It always is in every single game. The top tier players run what is most efficient and refuse to use anything else because it is a waste of time. You will never reach perfect balance between classes because perfect balance is impossible to achieve. Something will always be the best and if you nerf the current flavor of the month, all that will happen is people will find a new one.

QI's got nerfed so now people moved to Asari. If Asari get nerfed people will find the next powerful thing and use that (probably Salarian Engineer). If that gets nerfed people will find the next best team build and then use that. The cycle will always continue. It is impossible to break.

This isn't some competitive multiplayer game that needs to be balanced around the top tier. All that will accomplish is a major divide in the community. It happens in every single game. You start nerfing things because of the top tier and all you do is force them to move to the next best build slowing them down by maybe a minute. Meanwhile the casual player who likes to play for fun and not be a min/maxer gets his favorite playstyle nerfed and (s)he becomes upset and stops playing and gains discontempt for the company for nerfing his/her favorite playstyle.

If you don't like playing the most efficient classes, but the top tier won't let you play with them because of it, then don't play with the top tier. Try to find a group of friends who will let you play what you want. There are far reaching consequences to nerfing things. I've seen it happen first hand to a game I absolutely used to love playing. We kept nerfing a bunch of rediculous skills and builds to try to balance things and all we ended up accomplishing was ticking off the low tier players and now the PvP scene in that game is dead. The low tier quit, causing the mid tier to quit, which left only the top tier and people who play for money. As time goes on they move to different games and the people that want to stay have no one to play with because the players in the lower tiers they would use to replace their old teammates quit long ago.

Nerfing classes will be the death of multiplayer in this game. It will suck the fun right out for the casuals who want nothing more than to blow crap up with their friends. If people really think biotic explosions are way more powerful than guns, then buff guns. If the game becomes too easy, Bioware can add another difficulty. But don't start doing things because of the top tier that will ruin the game for the rest of the players. It never ends well.

Modifié par Burnham1, 19 mars 2012 - 05:23 .