31 réponses à ce sujet

[genzu44]

 In Mass Effect 2, for me, the soldier was the class that could carry the three main weapons (sniper, assault rifle, and shotgun), and put out enough firepower to tackle any situation. So whats the point of the soldier in this game since any class can carry all five weapons. So as a sentinel, I could have access to tech armor for damage resistance and carry a black widow, a revenant, and a claymore, and do the same thing that a soldier can do while also having some form of crowd control in lift grenades. Granted I never used adrenaline rush at all, unless I needed one more kill before I got back into cover, so I don't know if it factors that much into the equation.
So my other question is is there something about the soldier that I'm missing. Is the soldier supposed to fire off adrenaline rushes one after another as soon as the cool down's over throughout the firefight?

PS: I'm a n00b and this is my first post. Thanks for any help.

[HolyAvenger]

Ammo powers? I found my ammo powers helped immensely. Cryo for crowd control when facing basic troops. Switch to disruptor against barrier or shields for quickest stripping, then to incendiary for armour. Frag grenades are pretty sweet for extra damage output.

[YeGodz]

Cooldowns are a problem with power-dependent classes opting for full load-out. Soldier (I think) has a higher basic weight threshold, and no active powers save for AR and your bonus power; you get the versatility of multiple guns without sacrificing too many other options.

And yeah, if you want, you can drop a couple guns to reduce your AR cooldown to nothing, spam it, and do every fight in slow-mo.

[genzu44]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Ammo powers? I found my ammo powers helped immensely. Cryo for crowd control when facing basic troops. Switch to disruptor against barrier or shields for quickest stripping, then to incendiary for armour. Frag grenades are pretty sweet for extra damage output.

I can get ammo powers from squadmates, liara's squad warp ammo, and in Mass Effect 2 ammo powers weren't that important. I agree that squad cryo is amazing crowd control, but it isn't necissary. My problem is that any class can carry as many guns as the soldier and do, what i believe, the same thing it can.

[Brawne]

Nah, Adrenaline Rush and squad Cryo still makes all the difference, just drop the shotgun that is pretty much useless anyway and you have no weight problems.

[genzu44]

So squad cryo for cc and adrenaline rush for straight up damage? Ok, fair enough.

[Brawne]

genzu44 wrote...

So squad cryo for cc and adrenaline rush for straight up damage? Ok, fair enough.

4 points in Cryo to get squad and maxed dps Incendiary for yourself with maxed Adrenaline Rush goes long way.
Defense Matrix bonus power from EDI helps a tonn too.

[Defiantfa11]

Solider all the way!

[Doriath]

genzu44 wrote...
I can get ammo powers from squadmates, liara's squad warp ammo, and in Mass Effect 2 ammo powers weren't that important. I agree that squad cryo is amazing crowd control, but it isn't necissary. My problem is that any class can carry as many guns as the soldier and do, what i believe, the same thing it can.

Let me start by saying that you don't want to use a squadmate's ammo power if you can help it because you'd be getting it at only 50% effectiveness. No matter what class you play as, Shepard will always be able to output more weapon damage than any squadmate. To me this applies to any class, but is especially true for the Soldier; you want the full power from your ammo choice because your weapons are doing the lion's share of the work.

In addition to that reason, putting points into warp ammo with Liara is a bad idea because it takes away points (from an early point in the game) from warp, singularity, stasis, and her passive, which are all better to invest in before you even give warp ammo a glance.

Why does it matter if every other class can carry every weapon type as well? The Soldier still has the highest weight capacity so while other classes can carry the same amount of weapons, they certainly can't do it efficiently, especially because every other class is more dependent on combat powers than the Soldier.

I really think people are missing the point of the class. This is like the 4th thread on this I've seen. The point is that if you want to carry multiple weapons, you are the only class that can do it with any level of efficiency and you are fast tracked for the highest level of weapon damage output you can achieve from any base class.

Other than not carrying around two additional weapons you would seldom to never use on most missions anyway, what is so drastically different about the Soldier in this game to make people say its a useless class? I'm baffled by that.

Modifié par chrisnabal, 19 mars 2012 - 07:20 .

[genzu44]

chrisnabal wrote...

genzu44 wrote...
I can get ammo powers from squadmates, liara's squad warp ammo, and in Mass Effect 2 ammo powers weren't that important. I agree that squad cryo is amazing crowd control, but it isn't necissary. My problem is that any class can carry as many guns as the soldier and do, what i believe, the same thing it can.

Let me start by saying that you don't want to use a squadmate's ammo power for you because you'd be getting it at 50% effectiveness. No matter what class you play as, Shepard will always be able to output more weapon damage than any squadmate in the game. You want the full power from your ammo choice because your weapons are doing the lion's share of the work.

In addition to that reason, putting points into warp ammo with Liara is a bad idea because it takes away points (from an early point in the game) from warp, singularity, stasis, and her passive, which are all better to invest in before you even give warp ammo a glance.

Why does it matter if every other class can carry every weapon type as well? The Soldier still has the highest weight capacity so while other classes can carry the same amount of weapons, they certainly can't do it efficiently, especially because every other class is more dependent on combat powers than the Soldier.

I really think people are missing the point of the class. This is like the 4th thread on this I've seen. The point is that if you want to carry multiple weapons, you are the only class that can do it with any level of efficiency and you are fast tracked for the highest level of weapon damage output you can achieve from any base class.

Other than not carrying around two additional weapons you would seldom to never use on most missions anyway, what is so drastically different about the Soldier in this game to make people say its a useless class? I'm baffled by that.

Thank-you. this is pretty much what I was lookig for.

[jasonxxsatanna]

Plus I think the soldiers passive ability compensate for recoil on guns with high recoil as well as ARush. . .other classes can help themselves out with recoil by picking marksman as a bonus power but soldier is covered. . .and this time around CS is great expescially in its last evolution where you can add ammo powers to it. . . .what fun

[termokanden]

Redundant? No. I actually think they are better designed this time around. But they have one major problem: the weight system. Gone are the days of having fun with multiple cool weapons, or just one heavy weapon really. Tried to play a solder and felt forced to pick weapons I didn't want to use just to avoid having insane cooldowns. Hated it.

I would just like to make it clear that I'm not calling the class useless. I just wish I could carry more heavy weapons. I used to run around with a Revenant, a shotgun, an SMG, a pistol, and a sniper rifle. Or a Widow, and whatever else I wanted.. It was fun because of the weapon diversity. That was what made the class playable for me. It certainly wasn't this diversity that made the class overpowered in ME2 either. That was pretty much just Adrenaline Rush on its own.. I feel like the weight system forces me to either focus much more on one weapon or live with ridiculous cooldowns.

Modifié par termokanden, 20 mars 2012 - 10:54 .

[JaegerBane]

termokanden wrote...

Redundant? No. I actually think they are better designed this time around. But they have one major problem: the weight system. Gone are the days of having fun with multiple cool weapons, or just one heavy weapon really. Tried to play a solder and felt forced to pick weapons I didn't want to use just to avoid having insane cooldowns. Hated it.

I would just like to make it clear that I'm not calling the class useless. I just wish I could carry more heavy weapons. I used to run around with a Revenant, a shotgun, an SMG, a pistol, and a sniper rifle. Or a Widow, and whatever else I wanted.. It was fun because of the weapon diversity. That was what made the class playable for me. It certainly wasn't this diversity that made the class overpowered in ME2 either. That was pretty much just Adrenaline Rush on its own.. I feel like the weight system forces me to either focus much more on one weapon or live with ridiculous cooldowns.

It isn't so much the weight system per se, its more that many of the weapons are just too damn heavy. basic stuff like the katana weigh a ton and destroy your cooldown rating, while things like the Javelin are so heavy that they basically make you choose between using them and using powers.

I do think that they really needed to take another look at some of the weights of guns in the game, as the current system destroys any real chance at having a diverse set of weapons.

[Radwar]

Personally I always found the Soldier to be the most boring class.

[Haellion]

Turian soldier + marksman with accuracy/fire-rate upgrade + revenant with increased ammo capacity and stability damper... = LMFAO

[Gaidren]

I really didn't like the soldier in ME3, where as in ME2 I found I enjoyed it.

The ME3 soldier does feel more balanced, but if I'm going to be killing things with mostly gunfire it would be nice to be able to carry around multiple guns for the sake of variety if nothing else.

My ME3 soldier played through 80% of the game with just the Vindicator and added in a scoped Paladin at the end. Never touched a shotgun/SMG, rarely used a sniper rifle.

Sadly had to do a lot of Carnage spamming near the end of the game to conserve ammo too.

I'm playing through the game a 2nd time as Adept, and it feels like a god class compared to soldier.  The gameplay is repetitive in a different way (biotic combo, biotic combo, biotic combo, etc) but at least spamming blue explosions feels really powerful and fun.  Insanity has been WAY easier with this class thus far.  Brutes just fall over, Throw/Warp combo when maxed out for detonate damage is overpowered.

Modifié par Gaidren, 21 mars 2012 - 10:46 .

[JaegerBane]

Gaidren wrote...
I'm playing through the game a 2nd time as Adept, and it feels like a god class compared to soldier.  The gameplay is repetitive in a different way (biotic combo, biotic combo, biotic combo, etc) but at least spamming blue explosions feels really powerful and fun.  Insanity has been WAY easier with this class thus far.  Brutes just fall over, Throw/Warp combo when maxed out for detonate damage is overpowered.

Yeah, well, I think Bioware took all the 'Adepts suck donkey balls' comments from ME2 to heart and decided to dismiss such claims. I mean, Singualrity is now my go-to power for my Adept, its the best reason for playing the class - instead of being the embarrasment it was in ME2.

Pull also feels a lot more.... purposeful, if that makes sense. Enemies go crashing in the direction you pulled them in rather than floating. Combine that with the new Singualrity, the insane cluster grenades and the general speed boost to biotics and its altogether a much more violent class this time round.

[BasementCat00]

I enjoy performing combo using the Soldier class using the N7 Valiant. 3 Shots->Adrenaline Rush->3 Shots for those nasty enemies. Disruptor Ammo->Concussive Shot = Tech Burst, i enjoy watching the enemies getting shocked when that happens.

[Fortack]

JaegerBane wrote...

Gaidren wrote...
I'm playing through the game a 2nd time as Adept, and it feels like a god class compared to soldier.  The gameplay is repetitive in a different way (biotic combo, biotic combo, biotic combo, etc) but at least spamming blue explosions feels really powerful and fun.  Insanity has been WAY easier with this class thus far.  Brutes just fall over, Throw/Warp combo when maxed out for detonate damage is overpowered.

Yeah, well, I think Bioware took all the 'Adepts suck donkey balls' comments from ME2 to heart and decided to dismiss such claims. I mean, Singualrity is now my go-to power for my Adept, its the best reason for playing the class - instead of being the embarrasment it was in ME2.

Pull also feels a lot more.... purposeful, if that makes sense. Enemies go crashing in the direction you pulled them in rather than floating. Combine that with the new Singualrity, the insane cluster grenades and the general speed boost to biotics and its altogether a much more violent class this time round.

Yeah, unfortunately the whiners have won the day - and totally ruined the class IMHO

Singularity has become (almost) completely redundant. Pull has faster CD and you can get the dual evo which makes it vastly superior to Singularity. An Adept with Pull, Throw, and Warp is complete, everything else is a waste of time. It's boom, boom, boom all day long. No more tactics, no more teamwork, no more weapons, no more CC, no more gentile pulling/throwing enemies of ledges etc. It's incredibly boring and ridiculously easy - ME3 Insanity feels like ME2 Casual

Back on topic: The weight system looks good on paper, but its execution is terrible. Using more than one weapon equals gimping yourself on purpose. There is also no point to have different weapons for different enemies / defenses. Casters don't need weapons, using one only slows them down, and the more combat orientated classes should only carry one weapon to be able to use abilities more than once a mission. Hell, the vanguard has become an invincible - look i am untouchable during animations - space mage class. BW could have given them a stave instead of weapon this time around 

Thanks BW for implementing this horrible weight system

[Atheist Peace]

Fortack wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Gaidren wrote...
I'm playing through the game a 2nd time as Adept, and it feels like a god class compared to soldier.  The gameplay is repetitive in a different way (biotic combo, biotic combo, biotic combo, etc) but at least spamming blue explosions feels really powerful and fun.  Insanity has been WAY easier with this class thus far.  Brutes just fall over, Throw/Warp combo when maxed out for detonate damage is overpowered.

Yeah, well, I think Bioware took all the 'Adepts suck donkey balls' comments from ME2 to heart and decided to dismiss such claims. I mean, Singualrity is now my go-to power for my Adept, its the best reason for playing the class - instead of being the embarrasment it was in ME2.

Pull also feels a lot more.... purposeful, if that makes sense. Enemies go crashing in the direction you pulled them in rather than floating. Combine that with the new Singualrity, the insane cluster grenades and the general speed boost to biotics and its altogether a much more violent class this time round.

Yeah, unfortunately the whiners have won the day - and totally ruined the class IMHO

Singularity has become (almost) completely redundant. Pull has faster CD and you can get the dual evo which makes it vastly superior to Singularity. An Adept with Pull, Throw, and Warp is complete, everything else is a waste of time. It's boom, boom, boom all day long. No more tactics, no more teamwork, no more weapons, no more CC, no more gentile pulling/throwing enemies of ledges etc. It's incredibly boring and ridiculously easy - ME3 Insanity feels like ME2 Casual

Back on topic: The weight system looks good on paper, but its execution is terrible. Using more than one weapon equals gimping yourself on purpose. There is also no point to have different weapons for different enemies / defenses. Casters don't need weapons, using one only slows them down, and the more combat orientated classes should only carry one weapon to be able to use abilities more than once a mission. Hell, the vanguard has become an invincible - look i am untouchable during animations - space mage class. BW could have given them a stave instead of weapon this time around 

Thanks BW for implementing this horrible weight system

I couldn't agree more. I loved ME2 adepts and Vanguards, but ME3 turned them into the faceroll classes that Soldier used to be.

[termokanden]

JaegerBane wrote...

It isn't so much the weight system per se, its more that many of the weapons are just too damn heavy. basic stuff like the katana weigh a ton and destroy your cooldown rating, while things like the Javelin are so heavy that they basically make you choose between using them and using powers.

Yes, well that's kind of what I meant. I think either soldiers should just be allowed to carry even more than now, or they need to adjust weapon weight, or both.

Regarding adepts, I can't agree with the statement that Singularity was an embarrassment in ME2. It was actually pretty good. I thought it sucked as well. But I did learn to use it. It's not as powerful as the other class powers, but then again those other class powers were overpowered anyway.

Modifié par termokanden, 21 mars 2012 - 07:09 .

[Br0th3rGr1mm]

Soliders have MUCH more to offer this time around in my opinion. The option of NOT carrying lots of guns to improve your cooldown can give you many nearly spamable power options. Proper use of well evolved Adrin Rush, Concusive Shot and Carnage gives Soldier Shep a well rounded set of combat tools and the ammo powers don't need to be maxed (tho I suggest doing so with Incindiary) to add a lot of value.

Have had much more fun with the Solider in this game than the previous 2.

[JaegerBane]

Fortack wrote...
Yeah, unfortunately the whiners have won the day - and totally ruined the class IMHO

Singularity has become (almost) completely redundant. Pull has faster CD and you can get the dual evo which makes it vastly superior to Singularity. An Adept with Pull, Throw, and Warp is complete, everything else is a waste of time. It's boom, boom, boom all day long. No more tactics, no more teamwork, no more weapons, no more CC, no more gentile pulling/throwing enemies of ledges etc. It's incredibly boring and ridiculously easy - ME3 Insanity feels like ME2 Casual

I think will have to agree to disagree there, Fort. I never particularly found the Adept difficult to play in ME2 - it was more boring than anything else on any difficulty higher than veteran as it basically had one strategy that revolved around the god-awful reliability of ME2 Singularity. Add to the fact that it was a class that relied on weapons but didn't have a particularly good selection of them and frankly, it amounted to the reason I stuck with Normal. At least on the difficulty I found the class fun.

ME3's Adept seems to be much more of a wrecking ball and frankly, that's how I've always thought the Adept should be (and how it played on ME2 normal) so I've taken to it pretty quickly

Back on topic: The weight system looks good on paper, but its execution is terrible. Using more than one weapon equals gimping yourself on purpose. There is also no point to have different weapons for different enemies / defenses. Casters don't need weapons, using one only slows them down, and the more combat orientated classes should only carry one weapon to be able to use abilities more than once a mission. Hell, the vanguard has become an invincible - look i am untouchable during animations - space mage class. BW could have given them a stave instead of weapon this time around 

Thanks BW for implementing this horrible weight system

I don't think the *execution* of the weight system was terrible - I think its more there doesn't seem to be any correlation between the performance of a weapon and its weight. If they'd balanced out the weight properly I'm willing to bet it would work reasonably well.

As you say, that leads to a situation where having more than one weapon gimps yourself and having four basically renders all classes as little more than shooters.

To be honest I've never been totally satisfied by the way the ME series has handled weapons - the first game forced you to carry ones you couldn't use, the second game tried its hardest to force the player to use what it preferred you use over what the player wanted and the third game offers the option for the player to choose what they like, but defeats the object of that choice by whacking massive penalties on the player if they choose to exercise it. Its a shame about the third game, really, as had they just eased off a bit on the relative weights (particularly the shotguns), they would have nailed it. Maybe if they'd dumped the idea of positive weight modifiers then it would have been less unbalanced.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 21 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[JaegerBane]

termokanden wrote...
Regarding adepts, I can't agree with the statement that Singularity was an embarrassment in ME2. It was actually pretty good. I thought it sucked as well. But I did learn to use it. It's not as powerful as the other class powers, but then again those other class powers were overpowered anyway.

Yeah, well, every time someone mentioned an issue with singularity back in ME2 the automatic response was 'learn to use it'. The fact of the matter it was a slow, unreliable power that only really got any use because the rest of the Adept's powers didn't work on defences and was basically redundant on lower difficulties.

I would imagine that anyone who felt the other class's abilities were overpowered *would* think Singularity was ok - but aside from AR I didn't honestly think any of them were overpowered, just unique. Singularity was the odd one out in that it was the only class power that got used because there was nothing else to use against defences, unlike the rest of the powers, which made the player want to use them.

It boils down to opinion, I guess. I just prefer how violent the class is now, and because I like my guns, having the extra kit stops the class from being too overpowered.

[PrinceLionheart]

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...

Soliders have MUCH more to offer this time around in my opinion. The option of NOT carrying lots of guns to improve your cooldown can give you many nearly spamable power options. Proper use of well evolved Adrin Rush, Concusive Shot and Carnage gives Soldier Shep a well rounded set of combat tools and the ammo powers don't need to be maxed (tho I suggest doing so with Incindiary) to add a lot of value.

Have had much more fun with the Solider in this game than the previous 2.

If you're going to play a gunless, power-reliant soldier, wouldn't you be better off going with a Castor class like the engineer or adept?