39 réponses à ce sujet

[Meteo63]

OK, this isn't a rogue-bashing thread. I love rogues. I would totally play as one (preferably a dual-wielding city elf), but there's just one problem.

There isn't enough talent points. Why not? Well, think about it. 25 talents, at most, right? 27 because you start at level one with 3 talents. And if you want to be a rogue, you need stealth. And if you are dual-wielding you want most of that branch. So, there we go, 16 down already. Oh, right, lockpicking: now we've used up 20. Oh, look at that, you want to use lethality? Right, 23 used up. And finally specializations, let's say assassin and duelist. Huh, you've used up 31 talent points. And don't even forget dirty fighting; you totally need that. 32 talent points. Wow.

So tell me. What the heck do I do with my talents to make a good rogue? I could get rid of dual-wielding mastery, since I'm focusing on dexterity and not strength, so it's mostly useless, since I won't want axes or swords or maces in my second hand. What else can I do? What talents do you guys use for your rogues anyway?

[Taleroth]

25 talents at most is very wrong. This Warrior ended up with 30.  All Sword and Shield, both Warrior lines, two specializations completed, 2 Archery Talents.  That's 7 lines total + 2 spare talents.

You also don't need to take absolutely everything. Pick and choose, brother.

Modifié par Taleroth, 29 novembre 2009 - 07:45 .

[Meteo63]

Okay, 30... How does that work? 3 talents to start with at level one. You can level up a total of 24 times. That's 27. Where'd 30 come from?

[Taleroth]

He ended at level 23 even.. There's Tomes and bonus talents from certain quests.

[Bullets McDeath]

You just have to sacrifice some things. Can't do it all. Thankfully, there are those books for the extra talents. I went as a mainly combat rogue, gimped Stealth and totally left out Deft Hands. With the bonus grey warden talent and the book upgrades I was able to get myself up to Improved Combat Stealth so my rogue can do everything he needs to do, except open chests.



You also don't need ALL your spec talents. My DW rogue is a Assassin/Duelist and I took Duelist 4 and will eventually get Assassin 2, though I might reverse those if I had it to do over again. At 16, my skills are something like



Dirty Fighting -> Combat Movement -> Coup de Grace

Below the Belt -> Deadly Strike -> Lethality

Improved Combat Stealth

Dual Weapon Expertise

Dual Weapon Sweep - > Flurry -> Momentum

the entire Duelist line

Assassin 1



Pretty soon I'll add Whirlwind and Evasion, the rest of the Assassin tree.. and I should still have a few levels left, even though there's no talents I'd really want left. Well, Deft Hands, but that's sort of a moot point by endgame...

[Meteo63]

Okay, thanks. Can you tell me a bit more about the "bonus" grey warden talent? What does that mean? Where do you get these book upgrades from? Just shops, right?



So, basically, ignore deft hands. Is that the best way to go?

[daem3an]

Remember you have other party members too. I don't think there's a right or wrong way to build your rogue, if it fits with what you like to play. Rogues offer an incredible amount of variety, and they're also potentially the highest dps damage dealers. You can go with pure strength, dexterity or cunning focus, or a combination, just pick talents that fit with that. Rogues with high cunning go well with the Lethality talent, lockpicking, stealing, poison-making, stealth etc. High dexterity is great for an archer build. High Strength is good for getting the heavier armor and weapons, if that's your thing.

I prefer focusing on one area rather than being mediocre in several, but just don't forget about the companions you take with you. I have 2 rogues in my party so I get to take advantage of most of the available talents.

Modifié par daem3an, 29 novembre 2009 - 08:01 .

[KalosCast]

I almost never used stealth except to set up ambushes before combat started, so only the first 2 were really required

Full lockpicking is a must if you're an obsessive-compulsive looter like me

You can ignore a lot of the DW feats, unless they hit multiple targets or are passive, they're pretty worthless.

[daem3an]

KalosCast wrote...

I almost never used stealth except to set up ambushes before combat started, so only the first 2 were really required
Full lockpicking is a must if you're an obsessive-compulsive looter like me
You can ignore a lot of the DW feats, unless they hit multiple targets or are passive, they're pretty worthless.

I'm fine with only the first stealth talent, that's enough to scout new areas and plan attacks. As for DW talents being useless, I have to disagree on that one. My main rogue at level 20 will have roughly:

All 4 dual weapon talents
All 4 Assassin talents
Dual striking, Riposte, Cripple, Punisher
Dual Weapon Sweep, Flurry, Momentum
Dirty Fighting, Combat Movement, Coup de Grace
Below the Belt, Deadly Strike, Lethality, Evasion
Stealth
plus Coercion and Poison-making for bombs

[konfeta]

You start with 3 talents, you get two story-line bonus talents (impossible to miss, don't worry), and there are 3 talent points from books from vendors for Warriors/Rogues. So, yeah, 30 talents is reasonable. Mages can get one more than Warriors/Rogues if they do the Redcliffe quest through diplomacy.



Also, there seems to be a bug that results in your camp merchant restocking his stuff when you complete a DLC area, which means additional tomes if you purchase some exclusively from him.

[TheMufflon]

Meteo63 wrote...

OK, this isn't a rogue-bashing thread. I love rogues. I would totally play as one (preferably a dual-wielding city elf), but there's just one problem.

There isn't enough talent points. Why not? Well, think about it. 25 talents, at most, right? 27 because you start at level one with 3 talents. And if you want to be a rogue, you need stealth. And if you are dual-wielding you want most of that branch. So, there we go, 16 down already. Oh, right, lockpicking: now we've used up 20. Oh, look at that, you want to use lethality? Right, 23 used up. And finally specializations, let's say assassin and duelist. Huh, you've used up 31 talent points. And don't even forget dirty fighting; you totally need that. 32 talent points. Wow.

So tell me. What the heck do I do with my talents to make a good rogue? I could get rid of dual-wielding mastery, since I'm focusing on dexterity and not strength, so it's mostly useless, since I won't want axes or swords or maces in my second hand. What else can I do? What talents do you guys use for your rogues anyway?

Building a decent backstabber rogue is actually pretty easy.

Here's how I do it:

4 Points in stealth. (total of 4)
8 Points in DW, skipping the middle line. (total of 12)
6 Points in rogue lines, Dirty Fighting is free and feign death is pointless with stealth. (Total of 18)
3 Points in lockpicking tree, by the time you can by the last one your cunning should be high enough to open all locks anyway. (Total of 21)
3 Points in Assassin tree, last talent isn't worth it IMO. (Total of 24)
1-4 Points in second specialization. (Total of 25-28)

[Riot Inducer]

The problem is that rogues have so many rogue specific talents you can choose from. if you spec into all of the rogue talents you're inevitably going to have to sacrifice some weapon or specialization talents. I say your best bet is to pick and choose what rogue talents you want very carefully.



If you're going to be having another rogue in the party you might consider letting the second rogue handle lock picking talents so you can focus your points on other things. Also consider what kind of play style you are going to be having with the rogue, will you be using a lot of traps/bow pulls/ambush tactics? If so you might use stealth more than say the dirty fighting line. Alternatively if you are more focused on hack n' slashing with the DW talents stealth might not be as important as the dirty fighting line.



Rogues really have to think about planning out their talents more than either of the other classes I'd say, if they max all rogue talents they'll have to sacrifice combat effectiveness to do so unlike warriors or mages who can max their class talents as an afterthought and be fine.

[Meteo63]

Alright, thanks guys. So here's what I'll do, I suppose:

4 talents for stealth

8 for dual-wielding without the middle line

7 for the rogue lines (without feign death)

3 Assassin points

4 Duelist points

3 or 4 lockpicking points



30 total talents. And I suppose I could go down the middle DW talents as well, since I actually start with 3 talents already. So I suppose I'll go for Dexterity for daggers and DW talents, Cunning for lockpicking and persuasion and lethality.



I have a question, though. How high should I pump strength for a rogue anyway?

[jkim229]

I heard 20 is good enough for rogues to wear the best armor. I find myself loving the middle line of dual weapon tree as a low level, I love riposte...and I'm looking to maxing out everything in the dualweapon branch, no lockpicking for me, lelieana's taking care of that.

[Bullets McDeath]

Meteo63 wrote...

Alright, thanks guys. So here's what I'll do, I suppose:
4 talents for stealth
8 for dual-wielding without the middle line
7 for the rogue lines (without feign death)
3 Assassin points
4 Duelist points
3 or 4 lockpicking points

30 total talents. And I suppose I could go down the middle DW talents as well, since I actually start with 3 talents already. So I suppose I'll go for Dexterity for daggers and DW talents, Cunning for lockpicking and persuasion and lethality.

I have a question, though. How high should I pump strength for a rogue anyway?

You can free up a talent in Dual Wielding by not taking Mastery. Depending on your preference, but esp as a Rogue you are better off with the attack speed of sword/dagger or dagger/dagger. So that's one talent you can use for something else.  I'd ignore the middle line of Dual Weapon, in my opinion your crits and backstabs and Below the Belt more than compensate, not to mention Dual Striking is useless for Rogues (as you can't crit or backstab) especially once you get Momentum.

Oh, as for Strength, 20 for the best light armor. Probably early 30's if you want medium armor or the higher tier longswords. Someone else can probably provide a more accurate number than me on this (i use dual daggers). Starfang, for example, requires Str 31.

Those are my suggestions, but it looks like a good build. Only other advice I would add is to chart out by level what powers you are taking when, keeping in consideration Skill, Level and Attribute prerequisites. Keeping in mind that you start with 3 and get a free one around lvl4 or 5 (when you complete the Joining).

Modifié par outlaworacle, 29 novembre 2009 - 11:01 .

[daem3an]

I think the Ancient Elven Armor set requires 22 strength, and Dragonskin is around 34 (both medium).

[Forsakerr]

nah the drake scale armors (both) is somewhere around 20 or 22 , cadash stomper (boots) are 22 not sure about felon coat if it s 20 or 22

[daem3an]

Yes, the Drakeskin light armors only require 20 strength, I was referring to the medium armors in this set and this set.

Modifié par daem3an, 29 novembre 2009 - 11:29 .

[Forsakerr]

daem3an wrote...

Yes, the Drakeskin light armors only require 20 strength, I was referring to the medium armors in this set and this set.

i guess i missunderstood what you meant with Dragonskin is around 34 (both medium). sorry my bad

yeah the elven armor i knew it was medium , and the superior well i always get the massive one for my tank so did nt really know about it

[gsmithcat]

I turned Leliana into a duel wield duelist. Despite a bunch of wasted talent points in archery, she was totally awesome by the end of the game.

[Bullets McDeath]

ignore this post

Modifié par outlaworacle, 29 novembre 2009 - 11:47 .

[daem3an]

Forsakerr wrote...

daem3an wrote...
Yes, the Drakeskin light armors only require 20 strength, I was referring to the medium armors in this set and this set.

i guess i missunderstood what you meant with Dragonskin is around 34 (both medium). sorry my bad

yeah the elven armor i knew it was medium , and the superior well i always get the massive one for my tank so did nt really know about it

Yeah, drakeskin, dragonskin, dragonscale and dragonbone... I get them mixed up too.

[Loc'n'lol]

Wade's emporium. If you've already handed over the drake scales it's too late.

[Hamarabi2006]

I never used Stealth. Never needed it.

A rogue should use two piercing weapons to take advantage of his/her high Dexterity stat and take duel wielding skills to further enhance his/her natural abilities.  You don't need all of them

The Rogue should concentrate on Dexterity and Cunning, but should not neglect strength since that stat will add to the damage dealt. Dexterity and Cunning are most important and strength should be bumped a couple times. The rogue should concentrate on duel wielding and rogue skills and if you want more dialogue options for the PC Rogue that allow persuasion to effect outcomes you should maximize the coercion skill. You shouldn't split melee and ranged with your rogue. I prefer the melee with no ranged skills because it seems to work best (lots of backstab damage). Make sure you take dirty fighting because that will stun the enemy and allow you to maneuver for a few backstabs or temporarily disable an enemy so that you can concentrate on another. A PC rogue needs high Cunning and Coercion for persuade options in dialogue to be successful.

You can't take all the talents, just take the most talents that complement what you want your rogue to do.

Modifié par Hamarabi2006, 30 novembre 2009 - 12:15 .

[Vaylor66]

You really only need the top 3 and bottom 3 in the dw line. Also, if you're going cunning based build you don't really need all the lock picking line, at least it shouldn't be a priority. And if you're not going cunning based, then you don't need anything in the line with lethality. Right now my rogue is 16 and I can only think of 3 more talents I even really want(second rogue playthrough for me). The last one in duelist and the last 2 stealth ones. None of which are really that important. I don't think I've even picked up all the talent books yet either.