39 réponses à ce sujet

[metatrans]

you can make a fairly complete rogue build on as few as like 15 talent points. this is typical dual daggers cunning build.



below the belt line up to lethality (3 points)

dirty fighting line up to coup de grace (3 points)

dual wield training and dual weapon finesse (2 points)

dual weapon sweep, flurry, momentum (3 points)

all 4 ranks of stealth (4 points)



and thats basically the whole character.



that gets you every combat related talent you need to do sick damage. the rest is from equipment and stats.



your high level development is probably points in lockpicking when you can spare them and developing your specializations as well.



the specs only need 3 talent points though.



from Assassin you really only want Mark for Death and Exploit Weakness. from Duelist you really only want Dueling.



the whole thing is done before you've even gone to the Landsmeet. the endgame is a breeze.

[hawat333]

Well, yeah, and a decent warrior could be specialized in all manners of weapon fighting.

Come on, don't be so dramatic. You want stealth? Pick one or two talents? You want stealth that will work even against tougher foes? Well, that's it, specialize. You want a lockpicker? Take one of the rogues with you. If don't want 'em, that's another sacrifice of four points. Low on talent points? Look through vendors for books.

My point is that you shall make a priority list. Give two minutes yourself to think about how can you max out everything you want. It's completely reasonable that if you specialize heavily in the two-wpn fighting, you will be more like an assassin than a thief.

[elearon1]

I saved a lot not taking much in duel wielding ... instead I focused on the Duelist and Assassin lines, which game me more than enough in the way of good attack powers. Don't forget that you can also do a hide maneuver during combat with a high enough Hide skill, which gives you more backstabs when you run out of stamina for the other stuff.

[Timortis]

I personally think they shouldn't have made lockpicking and trap disarming a talent. Rogues are the only ones in the game forced to pick between combat efficiency and doing their job. It should have been a skill, never a talent.

[Suron]

can't make a decent rogue?? wow I must have been tripping on some bad **** while I played...I coulda SWORE I watched Leliana run around DESTROYING everything in her path..



and when I made an elf rogue...I must have been asleep and dreamed her ripping mobs apart...sneaking...stealing...backstabbing...etc...



I just need to sober up and play again...obviously I'm missing something

[grymstone]

Rogues can be a bit challenging to build simply because it is kind of overwhelming when you first look at their talents. The best advice i can give like the other posters above me is do not bother trying to fill out dual weapon fighting at all.



Dual weap training, dual wep expert

dual wep sweep ,flurry, momentum

Those are the core talents from the weapon style the others are sometimes nice to have or an out right loss in power but by no means essential.

If you decide to go with a lethality build you can get away with only 2-3 in the deft hands tree depending how quickly you make it to 50 cunning.



One thing I highly recommend trying though is the evasion talent it is fantastic for moments between stealth cooldowns or when stealth gets broken and you end up having to tank. It is far from essential but still a very good investment.

[telephasic]

Others have said their parts, but my thoughts.



1. Stealth is very underrated. While I'm not sure about the utility within combat (barring sneaking up on a mage, stunning him, and taking him down as quickly as possible), without stealth traps are fairly useless in the game. And, of course, grenades are currently broken, so you can use them in combat and not have it counted as stealth. All four ranks are worth it.



2. Deft hands just needs to be taken up to the third rank provided you end the game with 40 cunning or more.



3. Feign death is useless if you have combat stealth.



4. Evasion is actually quite nice, although it's not a must.



5. As for the DW trees, besides momentum and the first three talents in the top tree (all passive) I think everything is expendable. Honestly, if I were to redo my rogue, I'd skip taking the final skill point in combat training entirely, as the level four talents just ain't all that for a rogue. Whirlwind is nice, but the damage you put out isn't really enough to actually fell multiple enemies - which is what you'd want given the long recharge time.



6. As an aside, cunning-heavy rogues don't need more than three ranks in the coercion skill line.

[brucemo]

I just finished my second play through.  I made a dual dagger dex rogue as described in http://social.biowar...66/index/223777

This was a very easy toon to play, damage against single target seemed very high and the build is very robust against physical damage dealers.  I haven't tried to understand detailed game mechanics yet but it seems that dex = defense = rarely get hit.

My first play through was as a mage, and this seemed easier.  A dex 2x dagger rogue can function as an off tank and probably as a main tank in this game, at least on normal difficulty.

[Riot Inducer]

on specific dual wield talents I found the middle line to be the middle line to be very useful, at the very least I'd recommend a DW rogue get riposte. It syngergizes with rogues really well, using it as an opener out of stealth will give you 2 hits one being a critical and disable your target letting you land some backstabs on the target before it can react. And for any rogue who has coup de grace it's a no-brainer to get as many stun/disable attacks as possible.

[Shazzie]

As a lot have said with regards to the middle DW talent line, it's not as useful as the rest. I think it's more useful for DW Warriors (I plan on taking it with mine), but you can skimp on that line and the 4th talent in the other lines if need be.

My first rogue didn't have any Stealth, but she did have Feign Death. She had full Assassin & Duelist lines, all of the Rogue talents minus Stealth, the first 3 of the top DW line and the whole bottom DW line... and I never felt like I was missing anything. Currently doing another Rogue that IS going with Stealth, so that has changed a few things from my first build, and she's still working out very well.



But I've always loved Rogues.

[Lord Phoebus]

For my DW rogue I'm going a different route, high strength. 30 dex, 30 cunning, rest in strength (might sink a few in willpower, but I'm not sure). This way I can bypass the lethality line. I'm only going to take the first three of the dual wield first line talents, the first three of the last line and all of the middle. I'm also going to take the 4 lockpicking talents, stealth talents and the first 3 of the first rogue line (don't think I'll need feign death). That's 21 points, leaving the rest for specializations (not sure on Assassin/Duelist or Assassin/Bard), I think it will work out well, the damage should be crazy, though I'll lose out on defense (but pick up armor), seems valid until the dex patch is official.

[elearon1]

>>While I'm not sure about the utility within combat <<



Attacking from stealth gives you a backstab bonus - so you can go stealthy even face to face with an enemy, then get a crit as you attack them and break the stealth. Also, if you're getting messed up you can stealth and run away to take some potions, poison your blades, lob a grenade, etc.

[Timortis]

Evasion has a lot of problems. When it procs, there's a 1 second dodging animation that stops whatever you're doing. If you're running trying to get to a target and an archer shoots at you and Evasion procs, you stop dead in your tracks. If you're coming out of stealth trying to assassinate a caster before stuns wear off and a bunch of people start attacking you, Evasion keeps proccing and interrupting your attacks, allowing the caster to get away, cast Crushing Prison, or heal.



In theory, or 1 on 1, it's not a bad talent, but it really sucks when you're being attacked by more than one creature.

[Fryce]

Quick Tip:

For those into the lock picking and the such; your cunning DOES affect how well you can lock pick. I believe in the research thread behind rogues and their DPS bonuses based on strength/dex/cunning [that I will paste links for in here later] that you can potentially lock pick everything with NOTHING in lock picking and a moderate amount of cunning (60 +/-).

Essentially what skills like lock picking and coercion do is add massive amounts of hidden cunning / some other stat to your hero at an alarming rate per skill level (I think something to that effect of 10 hidden cunning per skill level). These cunning points are not for damage/buffs as they are hidden attributes tied directly to those two talent skills

III: LOCKPICKING
This information comes from placeable_h.nss and GetDisableDeviceLevel() in core_h.nss.

Whenever
you attempt to unlock a chest or door, the game calculates a
lockpicking score (L) and compares it to the lock difficulty (D). If L
>= D, the attempt is a success; otherwise it fails. Unlike stealing,
there is no random element in lockpicking.

The lockpicking score is simple to compute:

L = (cunning - 10) + 10 * [lockpicking rank]

Your
lockpicking rank is the number of points you have in the Deft Hands
tree. If you have Deft Hands alone, your rank is 1; if you have Device
Mastery, your rank is 4. As you can see, each point in the Deft
Hands/lockpicking tree is worth 10 points of cunning. Notice that you
can actually open locks without any points in the lockpicking tree if
your cunning is high enough (I confirmed this in-game).

If you successfully pick a lock, you'll gain XP equal to D (with a minimum of 5). Thanks Sheffsteel for the observation.

Great!
But how high does your lockpicking score have to be to pick every
pickable lock in the game? Unfortunately I don't have the time or
know-how to inspect every lock in the toolset to find a maximum value
for D. However, there is a big hint in traps.xls, which contains a
sheet called lock_difficulty with the following table:

1 Auto Success
10 Simple
20 Very Easy
30 Easy
40 Medium
50 Hard
60 Very Hard
10000 Impossible

So
I would tentatively suggest that you need a lockpicking score of 60 to
pick every lock that can be picked. You can achieve a lockpicking score
of 60 by getting Device Mastery + 30 cunning, or Mech. Expertise + 40
cunning, etc. Of course, some locks will still require keys or event
triggers to open.

Some people have finished the game with a
lockpicking score of 60 and said this was enough to open everything.
One person on the old forums said he was unable to open a chest with a
lockpicking score of 64, but I don't know the circumstances. I would
appreciate feedback from more people about whether 60 is enough for
everything.

That taken from this thread:
http://social.biowar...66/index/243304

TL:DR Version:
Lockpicking: Lockpicking IV + 30 cun should let you pick every lock.
Every rank of lockpicking is worth 10 points in cunng so you could go
with Lockpicking III and 40 cun instead, Lockping II and 50 Cun Instead etc

Thus you can save yourself anywhere between 1-4 talents for those extra skills which is an entire row.

Also never ever forget there are talent books. Even when you spend quite a bit of your money, by end game you will have over 50-400 soverigns left [Tip: do not donate more then 150 soverigns to a certain arl eamon friend in your camp for any more is beyond "usefulness" limits] with nothing to spend them on. BUY THEM WHEN YOU SEE THEM!

Modifié par SharpneI, 30 novembre 2009 - 10:14 .

[Chragen]

I can vouch for that a dagger/dagger rogue stacking cunning is amazingly fun. Much more than my 2h warrior. Close to all your damage will come from backstabs so you do not actually use a lot of abilities.



I'd go for momentum as soon as you can get it. It is just that important. It's about a 40% damage increase. After that I'd add points towards Coup De Grace and Lethality. I'd get lethality first since unless you install the dex hotfix your daggers get no benefit from dex.



After that it's up to you really. I got the first assassin talent then started to get my stealth talents.



After that it's just trying to play it smart and not take abilities that are generally medicore for you. Also your second spec doesn't have to be dualist. I'm planning on my backstab rogue to get ranger. The pet especially if you max our ranger is like a brining dog along in a already full party.



If you want more info you can read find loads of it here:



http://social.biowar...66/index/223777



Hope that helps mate