82 réponses à ce sujet

[Forsakerr]

no

[Inarai]

GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...

Inarai wrote...

GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...

Inarai wrote...

GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...

Server side you can remove pausing, serverside you can do alot of stuff that the clients to the server would have to be under as it is.

But that's the issue - it's strictly essential, in ways beyond just being able to manage the AI characters, which would also be at issue in games of any less than 4 players.

It wont work in the official campaign, I already stated that did I not? I am thinkin about actual player content, they gave us a toolset to play around with, you could make everything from self made campaigns to playerworlds with tonnes of content in that there would be to do as it is.

Why does people always think whenever, no matter in which game, that my intensions is NOT for the singleplayer campaign, you guys simply got no idea about the potentials with this toolset?!?!?

How many in here has been playing on Neverwinter Night 1 or 2 playerworlds? Content made by players... that made the game stay alive and that made it posible for people to make there own stuff and what more?!

So, you're hoping the players will make dumbed-down content...  *facepalm*

Look, players might be able to make some good content.  Making multi-player from scratch?  I don't see it happening - even if the toolset is capable, that's an amount of work I don't see anyone doing for free.

You don't get it either, looking on it with a developers eye in mind not a players, you seem more like one of them newage kids, making multiplayer from scratch hmm it is technically not as difficult as you put it.

It is getting a server and a client to work together with an altered ingame interface to replace the placeholders of where you can put in the NPCs with posible PC slots that would corrospond with the server server client and the game itself, rebuild form scratch? nah would not say that enhancing current game yes.

Except that there is no current engine support for multiple players, so far as either of us can know.  Which means, yes, you're basically looking at building that feature in from scratch.  It would be every bit as difficult as difficult as I say.

And we're talking about adding functionality to the base program, really - which means the development perspective is the only functional one.  The player's perspective has no bearing on feasabilty.

And setting up client-server functionality is the furthest thing from easy.  You sound like the sort of person who has no clue just how difficult game development is.

[Inarai]

[quote]GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...



[quote]LethalBlade wrote...

I find it amusing that so many people seem to forget that Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 both had co-operative multiplayer.

[/quote]

For all the similarities, Baldur's Gate was a very different game.  It may have worked well there - I wouldn't be surprised.  But here, I doubt it would.
[/quote]

Baldurs Gate is not yet just as different from DAO as you put it, with the AI characters you had story lines and stuff going as well... yes the user interface was different, but not the gameplay, pretty much the same gameplay idealogy.[/quote]

...  Why must you ignore the relevant information?  Dragon Age plays very, very differently.  In technical regards, as well, it's quite different.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

So they said with GTA3 when it was out... half a year later or the likes you could play it multiplayer because some nerds found a way... it is always a question of time as it is.

[Erruk]

WoW is that a way ---------------------------------------------->

[Inarai]

GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...

So they said with GTA3 when it was out... half a year later or the likes you could play it multiplayer because some nerds found a way... it is always a question of time as it is.

Which is in no way relevant.  That's a different engine, and one which may have already had multiplayer built, just not used.

Your logic doesn't bear out your conclusion.  Just because it was possible there does not mean it is possible in all instances.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

[quote]Inarai wrote...

[quote]GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...



[quote]LethalBlade wrote...

I find it amusing that so many people seem to forget that Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 both had co-operative multiplayer.

[/quote]

For all the similarities, Baldur's Gate was a very different game.  It may have worked well there - I wouldn't be surprised.  But here, I doubt it would.
[/quote]

Baldurs Gate is not yet just as different from DAO as you put it, with the AI characters you had story lines and stuff going as well... yes the user interface was different, but not the gameplay, pretty much the same gameplay idealogy.[/quote]

...  Why must you ignore the relevant information?  Dragon Age plays very, very differently.  In technical regards, as well, it's quite different.

[/quote]

I don't it is different, it runs under DOS and Win95 and the likes, the gameplay is the same.. you go out and save the world or yourself just like you do it in DAO... yes the way to steer around characters and stuff is different between the two games that is about it, other than that technically the same game enough said we just got a new user interface and way to steer around stuff... that is very similiar to some of the the different MMORPGs out there as it is.

[Inarai]

[quote]GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...

[quote]Inarai wrote...

[quote]GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...



[quote]LethalBlade wrote...

I find it amusing that so many people seem to forget that Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 both had co-operative multiplayer.

[/quote]

For all the similarities, Baldur's Gate was a very different game.  It may have worked well there - I wouldn't be surprised.  But here, I doubt it would.
[/quote]

Baldurs Gate is not yet just as different from DAO as you put it, with the AI characters you had story lines and stuff going as well... yes the user interface was different, but not the gameplay, pretty much the same gameplay idealogy.[/quote]

...  Why must you ignore the relevant information?  Dragon Age plays very, very differently.  In technical regards, as well, it's quite different.

[/quote]

I don't it is different, it runs under DOS and Win95 and the likes, the gameplay is the same.. you go out and save the world or yourself just like you do it in DAO... yes the way to steer around characters and stuff is different between the two games that is about it, other than that technically the same game enough said we just got a new user interface and way to steer around stuff... that is very similiar to some of the the different MMORPGs out there as it is.[/quote]

Wow, you really don't understand software development at all, do you?

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Man really, just get over it I am just stating that making own content actually is worth it... getting onto something that others are working is fun as well and often better in ways that it is better than what the original game developer bioware are granting us, expanding it into multiplayer I say that it would only make it a better game to play.



As for the BG vs DAO.... yes they use WAAAY different engines and user interface but the plot by playing the games are the same, said no more or less, would you please respect that as an answer?



Also stated that co-op worked with those games very well and that it would as well in DAO under certain circumstances that is, it is not always about the voice overs and player characters... yes the MP would not work in the singleplayer campaign but saying that for people that endure building would be more interested in BUILDING anything for this game if there was MP in it, and why is that? Don't ask me really... but people in general try to make somethign that can be used together with other people rather than just "hey I made this sword for use now I got a sword... a sword... heh a sword... man my life suck!" it ends with people losing interest.





You asked about development ok here goes:



If you got a toolset already you can just go ahead and start building the world already with area transistion and such as in general.



If you want to something that is not posible on the actual toolset you would have to develop a tool for it which you start on developing then, it was seen with alot with Neverwinter nights especially for making 3D enviroments creating slopes and mountains in the game... and not just only making stuff for the toolset but often as well programming stuff in C++ and the likes that would enhance stuff in one way or another.

[Inarai]

But we're talking about a lot more than just a tool here. We're talking about core engine changes, and there some pretty major hurdles in place there - for starters, lack of access.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

That for sure is the first bottleneck I agree to that and probably a hard nut to crack as well, but well it has been seen now and then that people gain access to the stuff somehow and then at some point stuff happens... and of course the owners go all ballistic over it... if people remember Halflife 2 incident but in the long run it is actually paying better off to grant people access if they do not want to make the stuff themself, it sells more games anyhow.

[Inarai]

GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...

That for sure is the first bottleneck I agree to that and probably a hard nut to crack as well, but well it has been seen now and then that people gain access to the stuff somehow and then at some point stuff happens... and of course the owners go all ballistic over it... if people remember Halflife 2 incident but in the long run it is actually paying better off to grant people access if they do not want to make the stuff themself, it sells more games anyhow.

I think, though, you underestimate the amount of work (and QA) involved.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Maybe I do, but if you know the right people then it is not as rough as first predicted given a clue onto where to begin as it is, at least we are having a civil debate about this, most rare on this forum haha.



But it would be nice if we could expand more, I think it is many of the console users that does not the idea about as it is, but for people that use actual PC's for this it would be a nice thing to look into.



I just think that people should support a mp option for at least player made content if allowed on this or that player campaign/world, don't you agree Inarai?

[Deathstyk85]

- Archangel - wrote...

It's what the console generation has brought upon us. Console devs can't make long engaging storylines any more (for the most part) so they have conditioned this generation of gamers to think single player is only a minor game point and the most important part is multiplayer.

It's amazing and kinda sad the degree to which these players have been programmed.

that sounds like someone else who was dissapointed with almost every fps games campaign

i think one thing people should consider, is not making DA:O a multiplayer game, but making a game in the same universe that could cater to a party of four friends playing.
as far as pausing, it wouldnt seem as important, because you would be controlling your character, and not a whole team. and they could make it a game like bg2, or go one step further, and they could open it up to multiplayer like nwn had, to where users could generate worlds/modules for players to partake in

that being said, dragon age:origins, the game we have now, could never be multiplayer. i understand why people would want it, simply so there would be more dragon age, and more things to do. but the way the game is, and the way the story is, if they tried it would most likely be something that was sub par and no one really enjoyed.
but they could easily, and very well could even be considering it, make a game that takes place in the same universe they have made, and has the ability for multiplayer.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Deathstyk85 wrote...

- Archangel - wrote...

It's what the console generation has brought upon us. Console devs can't make long engaging storylines any more (for the most part) so they have conditioned this generation of gamers to think single player is only a minor game point and the most important part is multiplayer.

It's amazing and kinda sad the degree to which these players have been programmed.

that sounds like someone else who was dissapointed with almost every fps games campaign

i think one thing people should consider, is not making DA:O a multiplayer game, but making a game in the same universe that could cater to a party of four friends playing.
as far as pausing, it wouldnt seem as important, because you would be controlling your character, and not a whole team. and they could make it a game like bg2, or go one step further, and they could open it up to multiplayer like nwn had, to where users could generate worlds/modules for players to partake in

that being said, dragon age:origins, the game we have now, could never be multiplayer. i understand why people would want it, simply so there would be more dragon age, and more things to do. but the way the game is, and the way the story is, if they tried it would most likely be something that was sub par and no one really enjoyed.
but they could easily, and very well could even be considering it, make a game that takes place in the same universe they have made, and has the ability for multiplayer.

Very much alike what I was trying to head towards myself, open it up the neverwinter nights way, it certainly could keep this game keeping winning awards for the next 3 years if it goes very well, and it would create a very good community alongside with what the Neverwinter Nights community was like. 

[Demonic Angel95]

I think that there should be some sort of arena that you can 1v1 friends or random players for rank? maybe be able to bet for ranked matches. but then they would have to do massive patches to fix glitches and what not. But overall i think it would be really amazing and if there was co-op (2-4) that would be even crazier and oh of course for us xbox360 and ps3 users we don't get the Tool set that allows you to pretty much make your own dungeons and what not. (http://dragonage.bioware.com/toolset/) And share with other people. Which is good if your a PC user i wish i had it for PC but i got it for xbox360 and there should be a DLC which allows your to buy it with the PlayStation Points (dont know the real name) or Microsoft Points. Or for free like the have on the PC. if you would like to talk more please message my xbox360 gamertag is Demonic Angel95 peace.

[JO2D4N]

Personally, I think that Multiplayer in terms of exploring and utilizing toolsets would be terrific. But, alas, I play on a 360 and have no toolsets.



However, I am a tad confused as to why the toolsets cannot be implemented on the 360 as Far Cry 2 was able to introduce toolsets to the 360 community...?

[Demonic Angel95]

i wouldn't particularly count this but halo 3 has the forge mode? if bungie can do it bioware can.

Modifié par Demonic Angel95, 29 novembre 2009 - 10:47 .

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

A pity really... it is sore for the revolution of gaming that it often comes down to that :/

[Deathstyk85]

JO2D4N wrote...

Personally, I think that Multiplayer in terms of exploring and utilizing toolsets would be terrific. But, alas, I play on a 360 and have no toolsets.

However, I am a tad confused as to why the toolsets cannot be implemented on the 360 as Far Cry 2 was able to introduce toolsets to the 360 community...?

yeah i want to know this too, because i thought it would be, or that you would be able to somehow upload them to your xbox. but i was very bummed to realize its only for the pc.

[Demonic Angel95]

Deathstyk85 wrote...

JO2D4N wrote...

Personally, I think that Multiplayer in terms of exploring and utilizing toolsets would be terrific. But, alas, I play on a 360 and have no toolsets.

However, I am a tad confused as to why the toolsets cannot be implemented on the 360 as Far Cry 2 was able to introduce toolsets to the 360 community...?

yeah i want to know this too, because i thought it would be, or that you would be able to somehow upload them to your xbox. but i was very bummed to realize its only for the pc.

If they do, do anything hopefully it will be soon who knows possibly you could even do it on your xbox But if they put the toolset on there what would be really amazing if you could sort of Reccomend to friend it sends them a message in their xbox inbox they click it and have the choice to play on your map.

[Inarai]

GHL_Soul_Reaver wrote...

Maybe I do, but if you know the right people then it is not as rough as first predicted given a clue onto where to begin as it is, at least we are having a civil debate about this, most rare on this forum haha.

But it would be nice if we could expand more, I think it is many of the console users that does not the idea about as it is, but for people that use actual PC's for this it would be a nice thing to look into.

I just think that people should support a mp option for at least player made content if allowed on this or that player campaign/world, don't you agree Inarai?

If it's official, though, it's gonna take away from devvelopment time on other content, which a lot of people really don't want to have happen.  And implementing it as a player made thing has a very arduous set of hurdles, and that's not even getting into the impact on gameplay itself.

If it did work, my expectations would not be high for how well it would work.  Things like conversations, for example, wouldn't work as they do in the actual game.

But my main point is that I don't think it can be done - at least, not without a prohibitive amount of work.

It is nice to be able to debate it civilly, though.

[BooPi]

Hah, expect multiplayer for the sequel. They had to leave something for you to want.



Jokes aside, seriously, I mean it. Making a game multiplayer means building the engine for that ground up. It's a lot of work, and the type of work that gets in the way of other types of work. I think for DA:O they were aiming for a good large single player game because that's what they could handle with the teams and resources they had.



But a lot of the groundwork is now there for the sequel. Meaning they can put out single player content without as much work, and could probably devote those zots to building an engine that supports multiplayer. Here's hoping.

[Zakath12]

I dunno for Dragon Age Origins itself, but I would love to see a coop game set in this universe. 4 players coop with tough dungeons, that would be awesome.

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

Well are you guys capable of download PC made content and play it in ya Console version is a question?