571 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Morohtar]

I say it one more time. They made it because we bought into it and they will change it because having our buisness demands it.

Modifié par Lord Morohtar, 19 mars 2012 - 11:01 .

[granyte]

joe1852 wrote...

u people make me sick u complained about the day 1 DLC saying it should have been included in the game and u boycotted it buy not buying it and now u r willing to pay for an ending that should have already been in the game lol

capitalist america : making you belive you have to buy a product to actualy fulfill the role of an other product you already bought but that is not doing it properly

Lord Morohtar wrote...

I say it one more time. The made it because we bought into it and they will change it because having our buisness demands it.

this is how it should actualy work

Modifié par granyte, 19 mars 2012 - 11:01 .

[GothamLord]

Lugaidster wrote...

gotthammer wrote...

IMHO, all the people in this 'retake' movement thingy should ask for a FREE FIX/Update/whatever for the ending.
Anything else (e.g., "I'm willing to pay for an ending", etc.), to me, seems like trying to negotiate from a position of weakness and, thus, potentially setting up for failure.

We're are already in a position of "weakness" as you put it (though completely disagree). The only leverage we have is money or lack thereof. That means that if they commit to fixing it, it could be half assed just to shut us up. I'd rather see quality work. If you're argueing that the only thing that matters to them is the bottom line, then you have to make your proposition seem attractive. We are bargaining after all.

Well we have the position of continuing to generate bad press about the game based on the ending.  That again translate into lost sales.  It becomes a game of net loss vs possible gain. 

[InsaneAzrael]

Grumpy-Mcfart wrote...

granyte wrote...

The ending need to be fixed for free just look at the amount of plot holes the actual ending created.
these plot holes need to be fixed for free now if they wanna add some dlc content after the plot holes have been fixed fine for them.

but we need to stop setteling for crap if we bow down and buy a DLC only to fix what they broke we are basicaly saying it's alright put out crap and then have me pay so you fix what you did wrong.

given the resources that would go into fixing the ending. it is unreasonable to expect them to fix it and ask nothing in return

Nope.. redirecting revenue from the MP DLC that can be put into development (unlocked from existant game files) through a separate team. The resources pale in insignificance to loss of long-term business due to customer dissatisfaction. Of course, there is the fact that this incarnation (ME3) was marketted to a broader audience. So there is no real excuse there. Changing the ending would cost one animation team (using engine based rendering) and a damned good foley/sound editor. ETA - 2 months for 5 minutes. Use several teams - if production came to 50,000 cost, charge DLC at $2/£1 for MILLIONS of customers.

Do it for free and release a large set of MP DLC at $10/£8 in multiple installments. They also have a constant revenue stream in MP anyway with use of Bioware Points for unlocks. Problem being, that the range of profit would be diminished, EA wouldn't like that one bit I am sure.

[Lugaidster]

granyte wrote...

originaly all i wanned is for people to stop waving thier wallet around make bioware feel like they need to regain your thrust to get more of your money

if you just go waiving your walled around it makes feel like if they just have to pull any kind of crap into a dlc and call it ending and then they just rubbed you of 10$ more bucks that they should never even have though about getting in the first place because they screwed something

You're missing one key part, without quality theres no money. If they half ass a paid DLC they won't auto get their costs back. Whereas they can half ass a free DLC and call it a day. "Waving a wallet around", as you put it, is a way to take the money issue out of the discussion. I want a quality ending for ME3. If they put up a quality ending, I will after verified be willing to pay money.

[Computron2000]

Lugaidster wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...
They made the mistake of creating a terrible ending that was nothing like what they advertised - if the consumer has to pay for the developer to fix it's own mistakes, the consumer is being duped. Mass effect 3 deserves to die before it deserves to have more money thrown at it until they do right by us and provide a proper ending. I will not support bad business practices by paying for the ending. If they create a suitable ending and deliver it free of charge, I will then consider buying any DLC/new games from EA, until then I won't. Simple enough.

This guy just said what i wanted to say.

I wholeheartedly...




Disagree.

Thats grand. Next time you buy a car and they don't give you brakes, you'll probably obediently and willingly pay the manufacturer again for the brakes

[Aweus]

joe1852 wrote...

u people make me sick u complained about the day 1 DLC saying it should have been included in the game and u boycotted it buy not buying it and now u r willing to pay for an ending that should have already been in the game lol

It is an act of desperation, really. For me (and I am guessing there are more like me) a proper closure for this wonderful series is worth more than some business principles or some spare change. If it would be only about money or rules I would just not bother and move along. In this case I do not care if they want to use me or not, as long as I get my fix. You can say that I am being duped but to be fair they had to first create something that I would be willing to get duped for. I am not here to demand my "rights". I am here to demand something good to be done to my favorite series.

[RedNanaki]

InsaneAzrael wrote...

 Changing the ending would cost one animation team (using engine based rendering) and a damned good foley/sound editor. ETA - 2 months for 5 minutes. Use several teams - if production came to 50,000 cost, charge DLC at $2/£1 for MILLIONS of customers. 

IMO that alone would *not* be enough to do the ending justice.

[GothamLord]

Computron2000 wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...
They made the mistake of creating a terrible ending that was nothing like what they advertised - if the consumer has to pay for the developer to fix it's own mistakes, the consumer is being duped. Mass effect 3 deserves to die before it deserves to have more money thrown at it until they do right by us and provide a proper ending. I will not support bad business practices by paying for the ending. If they create a suitable ending and deliver it free of charge, I will then consider buying any DLC/new games from EA, until then I won't. Simple enough.

This guy just said what i wanted to say.

I wholeheartedly...




Disagree.

Thats grand. Next time you buy a car and they don't give you brakes, you'll probably obediently and willingly pay the manufacturer again for the brakes

Assuming you survive long enough to buy another car once you find out its missing them. 

[garf]

Hibernating wrote...

garf wrote...

But how much money do they lose if the the sales of the game suddenly plateau? how much money do they lose on already created developed DLC ... if enough people do not buy it? enough to pay for a few minutes more cinematic and some varied text under a variety of in game footage? 

As for 'ethics', You shouldn't be able to promise something and then get away with not delivering it.

They gave us No Closure, No Sense, No Future, and No Choice...

I'm quite willing to give them No Peace until they sit down and bargain in good faith.

Argh! but dont you see that now if they come and "bargain in good faith" they are just caving into pressure, where if you did what the rest of the hold the line movement was doing, respectfully pointing out what was wrong and why, then bioware adding an option to fix the end becomes a favour to the fans.
Which do you think bioware would be more comfortable doing?!?

I thought I was doing what the rest of the Hold the Line movement is doing. Would you prefer. No Silence? No Surrender?

Until they commit to something. They can play the waiting game until we all  give up and go away (I honestly believe this would be counterproductive in my specific case because I've only ever had eyes for ME, and as it stands they've killed it.) Are my words disrepectful? uncivil?

They are challenging. They are meant to sum up our cause in something that can fit into a sound byte. I stumbled on the idea while writing my constructive criticism for the thread by the same name. Those four points summarize my critique and grievences and I believe from what I've read. A huge swath of everyone elses. .. the conclusion behind it is I'm not giving up until it's fixed...

They give us.

No Closure -- Most who dislike the endings have said that. I'd argue it's the number one complaint.
No Sense -- Starchild and space magic.
No Future -- No Mass Relays, Krogans eating earth's babies.
No Choice -- other than favourite colour. for a surrender to the starchild flag.

do you disagree?

In return I am saying that, until the above changes... from me. (and I understand from most of the Retake ME 3 movement)  No More Money. and certainly NO SILENCE.

not matter the size of the fix you want. No matter how much (if anything ) you're willing to pay. Is that a bannar you can rally under? or have I failed Demogoguery 101?

Modifié par garf, 19 mars 2012 - 11:08 .

[Andur4]

Free is what they should do, however if they end up making us pay for it, I would still buy it. I wouldn't be happy with it, but I would, for proper closure.

[granyte]

Aweus wrote...

joe1852 wrote...

u people make me sick u complained about the day 1 DLC saying it should have been included in the game and u boycotted it buy not buying it and now u r willing to pay for an ending that should have already been in the game lol

It is an act of desperation, really. For me (and I am guessing there are more like me) a proper closure for this wonderful series is worth more than some business principles or some spare change. If it would be only about money or rules I would just not bother and move along. In this case I do not care if they want to use me or not, as long as I get my fix. You can say that I am being duped but to be fair they had to first create something that I would be willing to get duped for. I am not here to demand my "rights". I am here to demand something good to be done to my favorite series.

the problem here is that if you open that door your next favourite serie of games will make exactly the same crap and have you pay for a better ending or even worst have you pay 1 buck for an ending at all pay 2 for a better one or 5 for the reall ending that does not cause plot holes the size of a galactic arm

[Lugaidster]

GothamLord wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

gotthammer wrote...

IMHO, all the people in this 'retake' movement thingy should ask for a FREE FIX/Update/whatever for the ending.
Anything else (e.g., "I'm willing to pay for an ending", etc.), to me, seems like trying to negotiate from a position of weakness and, thus, potentially setting up for failure.

We're are already in a position of "weakness" as you put it (though completely disagree). The only leverage we have is money or lack thereof. That means that if they commit to fixing it, it could be half assed just to shut us up. I'd rather see quality work. If you're argueing that the only thing that matters to them is the bottom line, then you have to make your proposition seem attractive. We are bargaining after all.

Well we have the position of continuing to generate bad press about the game based on the ending.  That again translate into lost sales.  It becomes a game of net loss vs possible gain. 

That has nothing to do with paid DLC. We are fighting to get an ending DLC, we should focus on getting that. Discussing price will come afterwards. You guys seem to be missing the quality part in the discussion, any attempt to correct the situation will still be held accountable, be it free or paid. If it's paid, we have more leverage.

[GothamLord]

RedNanaki wrote...

InsaneAzrael wrote...

 Changing the ending would cost one animation team (using engine based rendering) and a damned good foley/sound editor. ETA - 2 months for 5 minutes. Use several teams - if production came to 50,000 cost, charge DLC at $2/£1 for MILLIONS of customers. 

IMO that alone would *not* be enough to do the ending justice.

^^   Agreed.  

I want VAs back damn it.  I need more Garrus or Jack dialogue for me to have justice !  

[WaterWar]

I would gladly pay for a DLC that changes/updates the current ending.
It would be unreasonable for us to expect them to release a DLC that properly would require quite a lot of manpower and resources to make. If they can cover some expenses with the income from a DLC-sale, they might be more willing to make it in the first place.

[Lord Morohtar]

Anyone have this horrid crawling feeling that they will simply close the shepard saga like this and make a few halo odst type games playing off characters in the middle of the main storyline without offering any closure whasoever?

Modifié par Lord Morohtar, 19 mars 2012 - 11:09 .

[granyte]

garf wrote...

Hibernating wrote...

garf wrote...

But how much money do they lose if the the sales of the game suddenly plateau? how much money do they lose on already created developed DLC ... if enough people do not buy it? enough to pay for a few minutes more cinematic and some varied text under a variety of in game footage?

As for 'ethics', You shouldn't be able to promise something and then get away with not delivering it.

They gave us No Closure, No Sense, No Future, and No Choice...

I'm quite willing to give them No Peace until they sit down and bargain in good faith.

Argh! but dont you see that now if they come and "bargain in good faith" they are just caving into pressure, where if you did what the rest of the hold the line movement was doing, respectfully pointing out what was wrong and why, then bioware adding an option to fix the end becomes a favour to the fans.
Which do you think bioware would be more comfortable doing?!?

I thought I was doing what the rest of the Hold the Line movement is doing. Would you prefer. No Silence? No Surrender?

Until they commit to something. They can play the waiting game until we all give up and go away (I honestly believe this would be counterproductive in my specific case because I've only ever had eyes for ME, and as it stands they've killed it.) Are my words disrepectful? uncivil?

They are challenging. They are meant to sum up our cause in something that can fit into a sound byte. I stumbled on the idea while writing my constructive criticism for the thread by the same name. That four point summarizes my grievences and I believe from what I've read. A huge swath of everyone elses. .. the conclusion behind it is I'm not giveing up until it's fixed...

They give us.

No Closure -- Most who dislike the endings have said that. I'd argue it's the number one complaint.
No Sense -- Starchild and space magic.
No Future -- No Mass Relays, Krogans eating earth's babies.
No Choice -- other than favourite colour. for a surrender to the starchild flag.

do you disagree?

In return I am saying that in return, until the above changes... from me. (and I understand from most of the Retake ME 3 movement) No More Money. and certainly NO SILENCE.

not matter the size of the fix you want. No matter how much (if anything ) you're willing to pay. Is that a bannar you can rally under? or have I failed Demogoguery 101?

this is already agreed and this thread is specialy about voicing our disagreement about thier shady buiness practices and thier habit to screw over thier customer so this thread fall under the no silence categorie

[Cgrissom]

I will be more than willing to pay for ending DLC. We're fighting for a great story here, I'm willing to pay if it gets me my Mass Effect back. Now is not the time to be "demanding" stuff for free, that will only make victory that much more unlikely.

[Lugaidster]

Computron2000 wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...
They made the mistake of creating a terrible ending that was nothing like what they advertised - if the consumer has to pay for the developer to fix it's own mistakes, the consumer is being duped. Mass effect 3 deserves to die before it deserves to have more money thrown at it until they do right by us and provide a proper ending. I will not support bad business practices by paying for the ending. If they create a suitable ending and deliver it free of charge, I will then consider buying any DLC/new games from EA, until then I won't. Simple enough.

This guy just said what i wanted to say.

I wholeheartedly...




Disagree.

Thats grand. Next time you buy a car and they don't give you brakes, you'll probably obediently and willingly pay the manufacturer again for the brakes

Bad analogy is bad . Great way to prove your logic reasoning. For that to be correct you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the game is incomplete. Please, prove it. 

[Extort]

It won't be free FULL STOP

[Xenite]

Sorry but I would be happy to pay for an improved ending DLC. If it comes down to either we get it and pay $10 or we get no change at all, I'll pay.

EA is not in the habit of giving anything away free anyways. We just need to suck up the fact that we may end up covering the cost in resources to fix it.

[granyte]

WaterWar wrote...

I would gladly pay for a DLC that changes/updates the current ending.
It would be unreasonable for us to expect them to release a DLC that properly would require quite a lot of manpower and resources to make. If they can cover some expenses with the income from a DLC-sale, they might be more willing to make it in the first place.

the problem is that you have no idea what is happening behind a devlopement studio doors devloping an ending DLC is a joke in therms of prices it cost them nothing and charging for it is just WRONG and spoiling you

[GothamLord]

Lugaidster wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

gotthammer wrote...

IMHO, all the people in this 'retake' movement thingy should ask for a FREE FIX/Update/whatever for the ending.
Anything else (e.g., "I'm willing to pay for an ending", etc.), to me, seems like trying to negotiate from a position of weakness and, thus, potentially setting up for failure.

We're are already in a position of "weakness" as you put it (though completely disagree). The only leverage we have is money or lack thereof. That means that if they commit to fixing it, it could be half assed just to shut us up. I'd rather see quality work. If you're argueing that the only thing that matters to them is the bottom line, then you have to make your proposition seem attractive. We are bargaining after all.

Well we have the position of continuing to generate bad press about the game based on the ending.  That again translate into lost sales.  It becomes a game of net loss vs possible gain. 

That has nothing to do with paid DLC. We are fighting to get an ending DLC, we should focus on getting that. Discussing price will come afterwards. You guys seem to be missing the quality part in the discussion, any attempt to correct the situation will still be held accountable, be it free or paid. If it's paid, we have more leverage.

I fully get we have more leverage if there is more money.  I said have them do a KickStarter Program.   Justifies the demand right up front.  We dont lose money unless the projected amount is reached.  BioWare has visible proof for the demand if they reach the goal. If they dont that have visible proof its not cost effective and can walk away clean from the PR nightmare. 

[HaesoME3]

Lugaidster wrote...

HaesoME3 wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Vasparian wrote...

Grumpy-Mcfart wrote...

granyte wrote...

The ending need to be fixed for free just look at the amount of plot holes the actual ending created.
these plot holes need to be fixed for free now if they wanna add some dlc content after the plot holes have been fixed fine for them.

but we need to stop setteling for crap if we bow down and buy a DLC only to fix what they broke we are basicaly saying it's alright put out crap and then have me pay so you fix what you did wrong.

given the resources that would go into fixing the ending. it is unreasonable to expect them to fix it and ask nothing in return

It was unreasonable for them to end the game the way they did.

There's no objective way to demonstrate this claim. Given that, it is unreasonable to demand something for free when there's no proof of the harm. Besides, I'd rather have a quality ending than a free one, and no, you can't have both because there's no incentive for quality without the money. I'm not saying you have to accept it, but there's no reason to demand that everyone should refuse it.

The only thing that's reasonable here is they can expect me to never buy another EA product if they charge for a fixed ending or leave it as is. I won't demand or expect anything, but they'll alienate me forever if they try and make us pay for their own mistakes.

I won't support unethical business practices like that, I'd rather ME ends the way it did than encourage them to treat their consumers like this. This isn't about demanding anything, this is about what we as consumers deserve, we feel we didn't get what we deserved for $60 - they can either agree and broker for good will and future sales, or disagree and I won't ever do business with them again and advise anyone who listens to do the same.

In that sense, they already alienated you by giving you the endings they thought should go into the game. They can't catter to every single angry fan out there. I'm sorry, but they won't. They'll save face the best way possible with as little losses as possible.

They've made a mistake - and it's not about giving me exactly what I want, it's about giving me what I as a consumer deserve - they agree we deserve better or disagree and that will be the sole factor in me or any of my friends from ever purchasing from them again. I don't care about the specifics - hell most of us don't. I'll be happy to see the reapers win, and smash Hammer and Sword into pieces - I'd be happy to see my LI die to harbinger's blast on the way to the beam - I'd be happy to know the vast majority of quarians and turians that joined us to retake earth die of starvation with only a few habits available to produce food on their own ships unable to sustain them - I'd be happy with any amount of closure, whether it's happy or sad. I really don't care about the specifics, and this nonsense that 'they can't please everyone' is a cop out. Sure they can't please everyone - but they can do a whole lot better than the poll that suggests less than 10% of fans are pleased, so don't give me that bunk, it does everyone who is disappointed a disservice to dismiss it so casually.

I respect your stance though, but demanding (what the OP does) that everyone reacts like this is unreasonable. Just as charging for fixing a "bad" product can establish a precedent, caving to demands on unsatisfying products can also establish a bad precedent. Imagine going to the movie theatres and watching a bad movie then demanding your money back, no one would make movies, who'd go through the risk of doing something unconventional? No one would, because no one would take the risk of losing that much money. Some things are just like this because there's no better alternative. That's usually true with entertainment. It has to be trully and irrefutably bad for people to have a point, that hasn't been established with ME3.

No, it only has to be truly and irrefutably bad for people to have a case in court, you're confusing the whole purpose here. I don't want to take them to court and demand my money back. This is the court of public opinion, not of laws. I want them to know they can either do what I consider right by me and my fellow consumers and actually deliver in a respectable way what they promised - or I and many others will never purchase anything from them again.

The best you can do within your means is take back your copy and demand your money back, that's how capitalism works usually (Though I'm in Origin, so I'm a little screwed right now). I'll stand here demanding a better ending, but I will not be unreasonable.

I'll say again the only thing unreasonable is paying them to fix their own mistakes. I'll be disappointed by the endings before I'll support that. And this is from someone who actually works in this industry and sees first hand what's going on behind the scenes - if you give them an inch they'll take a mile. So give them nothing, make them earn it.

Oh and one other thing I'd like to absolutely refute - people will always make video games, even if there's no money in it. The hardest working people in this industry are the guys who do it for the love of the game not for their paycheck. You wouldn't have games with hundreds of millions in production value, but people will always make what they want to make and find a way to earn a living doing it.

[granyte]

Extort wrote...

It won't be free FULL STOP

of course unless we fight for it