571 réponses à ce sujet

[Hexoskin]

HaesoME3 wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

All you dumbasses [...] that black guy to come bumfuk you in the shower again.

Get your heads out of your asses...

Whoa! That right there convinced me to agree with you...


NOT! If you can't even argue without insulting you're not worth the effort. That response made as much sense as those who call as entitled brats. 

And if you're willing to buy a fixed ending DLC you should be slapped. kthx.

Psst... You're just giving the media further evidence of how childish some of us are (IE you). Keep insulting behind that keyboard of yours, it goes a long way on NOT helping us fulfill our goal. 

To be fair the majority of your posting has been little more than devil's advocate and "polite" goading.

No need for you to bother, he only edited out a well constructed post because he apparently can't handle a few bad words, and felt the need for people to trash one of the only posts in this topic that made sense.

Modifié par Hexoskin, 19 mars 2012 - 12:19 .

[granyte]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

Demanding DLC be free is just pathetic, developers spend months on making games for fans and DLC is no exception, If you ask them in their face to make free DLC, you're pretty much asking them to work countless months for free, to which they would kick you out of their office.

no a 5 minute dlc that fix the dialog to make sure that the many many plot holes we found are removed is not months of work it's a most 1 week

[Aiyie]

ObsidianAgent wrote...

As far as I'm concerned, BioWare released an incomplete product for full price and I have no rational reason to support this behaviour. I'm not buying DLC to fix this mess and give BW and EA an easy out. They fix it for free or they lose custom. At this point I'm expecting 2 things before I spend a single penny on a BW or EA product

• From Ashes for free
• A fixed, proper ending

From Ashes should have been part of the retail game, and I don't care how they want to spin it or when they claim it was developed. It was ready to go on release date, it should have been in the game. And the ending... well to say it comes across as the cocaine-fuelled scribblings of a self-satisfied jackass is being charitable. Yo Dawg we heard you like Deus ex Machinas so we wrote in a Deus ex Machina to give you the ending from Deus ex Machina.

We're not asking BW and EA to do us a favour - we're telling them to finish the job we paid them for up-front. Move from that position and they'll just divide up the factions and conquer them seperately.

"We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin

Definition of ENTITLEMENT1 a[/i] : the state or condition of being entitled : right b[/i] : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract 2 : a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program 3 : belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges
the contract we, the customers, have with the developer/publisher extends only as far as giving us the right to experience their intellectual property in a video game medium.

the ending was never specifically detailed to us prior to our paying for it.  we were given an idea of what it would consist of, but nothing more. 

a belief of being deserving of something is not the same as actually being deserving of something.

you can do as you please in regard to this... abandon them if you like, its not going to solve anything.  demanding things that are not only unreasonable, but absolutely outside the terms of your contract with the developer, is not going to do anything but hurt the movement.

[Tregon]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

Demanding DLC be free is just pathetic, developers spend months on making games for fans and DLC is no exception, If you ask them in their face to make free DLC, you're pretty much asking them to work countless months for free, to which they would kick you out of their office.

We can offer on other side of table option to clean up a desk for large portion of Bioware staff while useful ones are relocated under different EA brand, and EA execs can be told that odds of salvaging ME or DA brands are neglible and possible expected profits shall not appear. Thus forcing EA to try to come up with new brand to make lots of money.

Game series are THE most profitable way of making games. First game of series rarely makes huge profit, but following ones bring in ever increasing revenue. Thus, death of two reasonably popular brands forces EA to start risky search of new ones while losing practically guaranteed income of those two.

[RebelByDesign]

I think it depends on how they go about it. If it's just a quick fix DLC ending and they charge for it? Sadly, I would probably struggle against myself and buy it, as I care about this series too much to see the ending left as it is, but if I did it would be the absolute last thing I buy from EA or BW. If it's a whole expansion ala Awakenings, I'd be much more amenable to paying for it.

The whole paid/free debate is a tightrope BW needs to walk across very carefully in order to effectively salvage the fanbase.

[Kajan451]

granyte wrote...

The ending need to be fixed for free just look at the amount of plot holes the actual ending created.
these plot holes need to be fixed for free now if they wanna add some dlc content after the plot holes have been fixed fine for them.

but we need to stop setteling for crap if we bow down and buy a DLC only to fix what they broke we are basicaly saying it's alright put out crap and then have me pay so you fix what you did wrong.

After i paid for 3 games, and most of their DLCs i have to tell you: "I am wanting to see a conclusion to this game so much that i am willing to pay for it"

But i am also saying that if i have to pay for it, they'll have lost a customer. They have lost one too if they don't release an ending either.

And i am not going to buy a ME4 or 5 to see it end either.

If the ending will be a paid DLC, or if there won't be an Ending fix, i will feel sufficiently ripped off and screwed over to refrain from buying future bioware products.

It wouldn't be the first game i am missing out for it and i am quite sure it won't be the last one, but that doesn't change that they are loosing a previously loyal customer. (And i have no illusion that it won't hurt them, but i'll feel better about it)

[jkflipflopDAO]

Aiyie wrote...

ObsidianAgent wrote...

As far as I'm concerned, BioWare released an incomplete product for full price and I have no rational reason to support this behaviour. I'm not buying DLC to fix this mess and give BW and EA an easy out. They fix it for free or they lose custom. At this point I'm expecting 2 things before I spend a single penny on a BW or EA product

• From Ashes for free
• A fixed, proper ending

From Ashes should have been part of the retail game, and I don't care how they want to spin it or when they claim it was developed. It was ready to go on release date, it should have been in the game. And the ending... well to say it comes across as the cocaine-fuelled scribblings of a self-satisfied jackass is being charitable. Yo Dawg we heard you like Deus ex Machinas so we wrote in a Deus ex Machina to give you the ending from Deus ex Machina.

We're not asking BW and EA to do us a favour - we're telling them to finish the job we paid them for up-front. Move from that position and they'll just divide up the factions and conquer them seperately.

"We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin

Definition of ENTITLEMENT1 a[/i] : the state or condition of being entitled : right b[/i] : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract 2 : a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program 3 : belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges
the contract we, the customers, have with the developer/publisher extends only as far as giving us the right to experience their intellectual property in a video game medium.

the ending was never specifically detailed to us prior to our paying for it.  we were given an idea of what it would consist of, but nothing more. 

a belief of being deserving of something is not the same as actually being deserving of something.

you can do as you please in regard to this... abandon them if you like, its not going to solve anything.  demanding things that are not only unreasonable, but absolutely outside the terms of your contract with the developer, is not going to do anything but hurt the movement.

I paid $60 for the full game. I am entitled (a word trogolydites love to throw around recently)  to a full game. 

[zsom]

Tregon wrote...

And when they would release Dragon Age 3, it's ending would be made total crap on purpose and they would be smiling with palm extended while holding proper ending in other hand.

Of course, this would not in any way reduce price of DA3 box, but would be essentially forced extra purchase to have game worth anything.

Think before you are starting to make concessions before they have done any.

Don't buy it then. If you feel a game or a DLC is overpriced, don't buy it. It's as simple as that. Don't cry on the forums after you gave them your money demanding free stuff, don't buy it to begin with.

[Lugaidster]

granyte wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...
But then again, I'm not fighting for the industry. If you'd rather make your movement smaller because you want to "fight for the industry" I think you already lost anyway, AND you probably wouldn't get the DLC either. Worst outcome of all...

I'd rather lose right, than win wrong.

Then we can agree to disagree, whatever good that brings *sigh*.

sounds like oh it's alright to chose to have my cake right now at the price of half of every other meal i will eat for the rest of my life

What I was discussing with him is that we should pick our fights. If you just started a new soccer club you would go against the Manchester on the first game. Build momentum by gaining ground. Everyone that stands behind the retakeme3 movement can agree that they want the ending fixed. I say we stick to that until we get that. After that, you can if you wish demand for it to be free.

[Tregon]

Evercrow wrote...

Tregon wrote...

And when they would release Dragon Age 3, it's ending would be made total crap on purpose and they would be smiling with palm extended while holding proper ending in other hand.

Of course, this would not in any way reduce price of DA3 box, but would be essentially forced extra purchase to have game worth anything.

Think before you are starting to make concessions before they have done any.

While that may become true, the only thing we can really do is remind everyone before release of DA3 about current situation.Bad publicity must go hand to hand with bad decisions.

I'm up for it. I have stated that Bioware has lost my business until FREE fix is given to ME3. I stand behind my word. And I do not shy away from making others know exactly my view on Bioware and it's business practices.

If we all just keep up, we may cause Bioware to lose enough business to remind even the giant EA that fans are only thing that brings revenue.

[Skirlasvoud]

granyte wrote...

The ending need to be fixed for free just look at the amount of plot holes the actual ending created.
these plot holes need to be fixed for free now if they wanna add some dlc content after the plot holes have been fixed fine for them.

but we need to stop setteling for crap if we bow down and buy a DLC only to fix what they broke we are basicaly saying it's alright put out crap and then have me pay so you fix what you did wrong.

Remember that it's Bioware we're dealing with. The corperation, not Santa. They don't owe it to us to correct their game. They've already have out money and they don't care about anything but their return investment.


THE best way to get this darker side of them to move, is promised them profit if they crank out a proper ending DLC. T'is sad, their reputations as storytellers will forever be tarnished, but it's also feasible and true.


Now, if they did it for free, or tell us the ending was just indoctrination, I'd applaud them and they'd fix a lot of things concerning their reputation.

[nomoredruggs]

I do not like the endings one bit. I find them depressing, devoid of real choice for our character and poorly explained.

But I wouldn't say that the product we got was incomplete. Falsely advertised, perhaps.

So, it seems to me we are actually asking for them to make something. They will have to, as other people have mentioned, dedicate resources for that.

So I would pay for it and I find it reasonable enough. I mean, I believe that they don't have a project like that at the moment and I don't think that expecting them to give us something like that for free will intice them to do it.

Unless we are asking for a 5min epilogue, then yes, that could be free.

Just my thoughts though.

[EmGo]

Well, right now, I can pay. If I have to choose: no DLC or paid DLC. I will pay. It's sad... but oh well...

[jkflipflopDAO]

zsom wrote...

Tregon wrote...

And when they would release Dragon Age 3, it's ending would be made total crap on purpose and they would be smiling with palm extended while holding proper ending in other hand.

Of course, this would not in any way reduce price of DA3 box, but would be essentially forced extra purchase to have game worth anything.

Think before you are starting to make concessions before they have done any.

Don't buy it then. If you feel a game or a DLC is overpriced, don't buy it. It's as simple as that. Don't cry on the forums after you gave them your money demanding free stuff, don't buy it to begin with.

Do you understand what forums are for? They're for giving feedback. He's giving feedback. You are just running your mouth.

[Anuvis13]

granyte wrote...

The ending need to be fixed for free just look at the amount of plot holes the actual ending created.
these plot holes need to be fixed for free now if they wanna add some dlc content after the plot holes have been fixed fine for them.

but we need to stop setteling for crap if we bow down and buy a DLC only to fix what they broke we are basicaly saying it's alright put out crap and then have me pay so you fix what you did wrong.


EDIT just something i found browsing this forum it might give you more into why they need to do it for free www.youtube.com/watch

I agree 100%. Those are my exact thoughts. It's not our fault they teleported the squad to the Normandy or that Joker abandoned Shepard and somehow knew the Crucible could harm the Normandy or that Hackett knew Shepard was in the Citadel after we hear them say no one survived and the list goes on. Why do we have to pay for their oversight?

[Lugaidster]

Hexoskin wrote...


No need for you to bother, he only edited out a well constructed post because he apparently can't handle a few bad words, and felt the need for people to trash one of the only posts in this topic that made sense.

Well constructed? What are you 15?

[swn32]

Dav3VsTh3World wrote...

Demanding DLC be free is just pathetic, developers spend months on making games for fans and DLC is no exception, If you ask them in their face to make free DLC, you're pretty much asking them to work countless months for free, to which they would kick you out of their office.

Making a DLC that adds a few ending cutscenes that bring the story to a proper closure require countless months?

Modifié par swn32, 19 mars 2012 - 12:28 .

[Tregon]

zsom wrote...

Don't buy it then. If you feel a game or a DLC is overpriced, don't buy it. It's as simple as that. Don't cry on the forums after you gave them your money demanding free stuff, don't buy it to begin with.

Well, if you want to be cashcow who can be given game left pathetically unfinished and are willing to pay more money to have it fixed, be my guest. I actually as consumer have balls to demand providers to provide what they have been promising.

[wulf3n]

Lugaidster wrote...
 If you just started a new soccer club you would go against the Manchester on the first game. Build momentum by gaining ground.

If you're ultimate goal is to take on Manchester Utd, and building momentum is going to injure off all your players, you're better off just taking on Manchester from the get go.

And i think what 
granyte  was saying was that paying for "ending" dlc is going to cost you more than you realise if you actually care about what happens to the gaming industry

Modifié par wulf3n, 19 mars 2012 - 12:33 .

[Beyond Archangel]

yeah ill not pay my money so bioware can try and win my heart again D:<

[ObsidianAgent]

ThePrestige10 wrote...

Honestly. Turn it around: If they don't fix this ending for free, they will lose customers for future DLC. That's just economics.

Exactly. Right now BW and EA are screwing with one of the most important but also most intangible assets corporations can possess: goodwill. We bought BW games in the past because we found those games exceeded our expectations of what a computer game would do. So we carried that goodwill forward to the next product and bought that too - often the buggy launch version. And we didn't care because, despite the flaws, you could see BW were trying to innovate and give excellent value. A lot of us have being doing that for 15+ years. There are people at BW who owe their careers to that goodwill - there would never have been a place for them in the company if that goodwill hadn't existed and been factored into the risk assessment for new projects.

But goodwill can evaporate. Mine has.

[Ampliment]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

I paid $60 for the full game. I am entitled (a word trogolydites love to throw around recently)  to a full game. 

But you got a full game.  Just because you don't like the ending that doesn't mean it wasn't a full game.  You payed $60 for Mass Effect 3 and you got what was made to be Mass Effect 3 whether you liked it or not. They could've given you a game of pong with Shepard and Harbinger as the two paddles and said it was Mass Effect 3 but it would still be a complete game.  Your game came to you in complete full form.  If I order a chicken sandwich and don't like it therefore not eating it I don't get another free sandwich for an incomplete meal, I have to pay for another sandwich if I want it. 

[mattynutz]

Syrellaris wrote...


 You have no rights to demand things for free, sorry to bust your bubble.

The word free is being used a bit too freely. Nobody is actually requesting anything for free. They paid $60 - $80, and I shudder to think what in pounds, for a product that was not delivered as advertised. They are requesting the product that they purchased. It is a common business practice to do this. It is also a common business practice to negotiate things down and request quite a bit for free. And it is a common business practice to deliver that. If you think that neither EA nor Bioware engages in this practice with their contracted service providers, then you've got another thing coming.

I for one, will not be purchasing any Bioware products beyond what I already have until I recieved the ME3 product that I already paid for. 

ampliment  wrote...

  If I order a chicken sandwich and don't like it therefore not eating it I don't get another free sandwich for an incomplete meal, I have to pay for another sandwich if I want it.  

If your sandwich had beef in that last bite, or pork in that last bite, or a cockroach in that last bite, you absolutely could get a full refund or a replacement. Not for free, but for the price of the original sandwich that you purchased but did not recieve. Anyone who has worked in food service will tell you the same.

Modifié par mattynutz, 19 mars 2012 - 12:37 .

[Tregon]

Lugaidster wrote...

granyte wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...
But then again, I'm not fighting for the industry. If you'd rather make your movement smaller because you want to "fight for the industry" I think you already lost anyway, AND you probably wouldn't get the DLC either. Worst outcome of all...

I'd rather lose right, than win wrong.

Then we can agree to disagree, whatever good that brings *sigh*.

sounds like oh it's alright to chose to have my cake right now at the price of half of every other meal i will eat for the rest of my life

What I was discussing with him is that we should pick our fights. If you just started a new soccer club you would go against the Manchester on the first game. Build momentum by gaining ground. Everyone that stands behind the retakeme3 movement can agree that they want the ending fixed. I say we stick to that until we get that. After that, you can if you wish demand for it to be free.

Have you ever been in haggling situation? Hmm? When you say you want proper ending DLC but specify nothing else, Bioware can come back and say "Here it is! It shall be 50 bucks!".

And that's it. You did not specify any other conditions but having DLC. Starting to say that it should not be so expensive AFTER your demands were met just makes you look like jackass. Bioware can say they offered the olive branch and you refused. 

While if you start by demanding it for free, they can make concession to make DLC. And then, if their promise (which I would not trust) is good enough, you can make concession on price.

[jkflipflopDAO]

ObsidianAgent wrote...

ThePrestige10 wrote...

Honestly. Turn it around: If they don't fix this ending for free, they will lose customers for future DLC. That's just economics.

Exactly. Right now BW and EA are screwing with one of the most important but also most intangible assets corporations can possess: goodwill. We bought BW games in the past because we found those games exceeded our expectations of what a computer game would do. So we carried that goodwill forward to the next product and bought that too - often the buggy launch version. And we didn't care because, despite the flaws, you could see BW were trying to innovate and give excellent value. A lot of us have being doing that for 15+ years. There are people at BW who owe their careers to that goodwill - there would never have been a place for them in the company if that goodwill hadn't existed and been factored into the risk assessment for new projects.

But goodwill can evaporate. Mine has.

Hear, hear!