571 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRealMithril]

Tregon wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

You make it sound like BioWare is like Ryanair. ..

Hey, by releasing ME3 as it is they have proven they do not really care about quality of their product.
If they are let off the hook and rewarded with money, where is the motivation to do better in future?

Paid DLC only took off BECAUSE IT WORKED! People DID pay for DLC, so ever increasing amount of DLC is released. If they now can sell proper ending for money, it is like a bloody goldmine to exploit!

Where is the motivation to make game good and with proper ending straight off when you could just slap on it crap ending, wait for disappointment of the crowd and then tell that they can have new one for pitiful 20 bucks?

They haven't said anything yet, you are. Difference.

I don't mind paying for it. Do I want to have it for free? Heck yeah! But do I 'expect it'? Heck no!

[HaesoME3]

Ampliment wrote...
Your asking more work on something the developer considered a finished product if you think more content should come to you for free because you didn't like the way something turned out you are wrong

On one hand, I understand where you're coming from - yet fact of the matter is if enough people agree with him he is in fact right.

The only way to determine whether or not it is "Right" to expect more is whether or not enough people agree that EA would lose more money by not agreeing they're right than they would by "Ah, poorly made endings. We have dismissed that claim."

Modifié par HaesoME3, 19 mars 2012 - 12:54 .

[evisneffo]

wulf3n wrote...

You'll have already given them money for the same reason before why wouldn't they think you would do it agin.

It's more that in this instance we would be paying them in faith that they acknowledged the first instance was a mistake and were making an effort to fix it. If the same thing happened again, I don't think it's a stretch to say they could count these customers as lost for good. Save for the colossal stupidity, it's impossible to think why they would risk that.

[Tregon]

TheRealMithril wrote...

They haven't said anything yet, you are. Difference.

I don't mind paying for it. Do I want to have it for free? Heck yeah! But do I 'expect it'? Heck no!

And they are not going to say anything either unless you keep up the pressure. And unless you keep up the pressure to make them fix their mistake for free, they will keep pumping crap which you have to pay to patch!

[zsom]

wulf3n wrote...

zsom wrote...
You wait and see the reactions to it? It is really that difficult?

who's reaction? who do you think will be playing it first.

People who liked the endings, or who didn't dislike them too much. And also poeple who don't think that 10$ is the biggest investment of their entire life.

[wulf3n]

evisneffo wrote...
It's more that in this instance we would be paying them in faith that they acknowledged the first instance was a mistake and were making an effort to fix it. If the same thing happened again, I don't think it's a stretch to say they could count these customers as lost for good. Save for the colossal stupidity, it's impossible to think why they would risk that.

We already had faith that they'd deliver a product up to thier usual standards.

zsom wrote...
People who liked the endings, or who didn't dislike them too much.

  
And you'd take thier word?

zsom wrote... 
 And also poeple who don't think that 10$ is the biggest investment of their entire life.

 

It's not about the money it's about the principle.

Modifié par wulf3n, 19 mars 2012 - 12:57 .

[Lugaidster]

Tregon wrote...

zsom wrote...

Sir Fluffykins wrote...

If you have to pay for it, how could you pay not knowing what the "true conclusion" is. How do you know you won't get burnt again?

You wait and see the reactions to it? It is really that difficult?

Still means someone has to buy it blindly and provide the reactions.

Not really, I'll just go to gamefront/forbes/angryjoe/anyone else that has covered this controversy in an objective light and hear their opinions. If they feel that the complaints were addressed (assuming Bioware doesn't go transparently through the process), I'd bite.

[ZzOoRrGg]

Pfft I'm not paying them to fix something that came to me broken.

[evisneffo]

wulf3n wrote...

We already had faith that they'd deliver a product up to thier usual standards.

That's true, but I see this as a misjudgement on the part of whoever was responsible for the ending. They weren't expecting this. Now, at least, they have explicit feedback about what direction to take.

[Lugaidster]

wulf3n wrote...

evisneffo wrote...
It's more that in this instance we would be paying them in faith that they acknowledged the first instance was a mistake and were making an effort to fix it. If the same thing happened again, I don't think it's a stretch to say they could count these customers as lost for good. Save for the colossal stupidity, it's impossible to think why they would risk that.

We already had faith that they'd deliver a product up to thier usual standards.

So you''re saying they'll make a mistake because they made a mistake? If that's the case, ME3 is as good as dead... 

I don't believe for a second that anyone in their right mind would preorder this supposed DLC if they hated the ending. A paid DLC without any information on the content before actually committing would be really risky for them, because if the product doesn't live up to the standards after this whole mess then they already lost all the customers that wanted a new ending, and a lot of money making that DLC.

[Tregon]

Lugaidster wrote...

Not really, I'll just go to gamefront/forbes/angryjoe/anyone else that has covered this controversy in an objective light and hear their opinions. If they feel that the complaints were addressed (assuming Bioware doesn't go transparently through the process), I'd bite.

Would you like to list all of those who gave critical review straight up instead of after noticing fan rage?
I recall AngryJoe giving ME3 something like "very good game" and only later on realizing that game he had played had crap ending.

That's credible for you...

[wulf3n]

evisneffo wrote...
That's true, but I see this as a misjudgement on the part of whoever was responsible for the ending. They weren't expecting this. Now, at least, they have explicit feedback about what direction to take.

I don't know whats worse, the "polarizing" ending being an attempt to syphon more money out of the consumer, or a complete lack of judgement and disconnect with their player base. 

[Aiyie]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Sir Fluffykins wrote...

If you have to pay for it, how could you pay not knowing what the "true conclusion" is. How do you know you won't get burnt again?

It seems this younger generation is conditioned to think that demanding value for your money is akin to "a false sense of entitlement". They actually look at it as a bad thing. Unless you just lay down and take it in the pooper like a good little sheep, you're a troublemaker.

it seems the older generation (im certainly hoping you're well past your thirties, because i have no desire to be lumped in with you and your line of thinking) has the sense that they are entitled to more than they paid for.

there's a difference between demanding value for your money and understanding that you got what you paid for.

i didn't pay to be involved in the development process.  the only thing i paid for was the right to play the game.  how the game turned out, its quality, that was not something i paid for.

sure, if i'd been able to audti the devs as they were making the game, or had a list of specifics wants/needs laid out in a contract prior to laying my money on the table, i'd be entitled to more.

but as it stands, i have no right to anything more than what i already have.

all that said, its just good business sense to make a fix for the shoddy product we did receive... but in no way shape or form are we entitled to such a fix... and we most certainly aren't entitled to receiving it for free.  id expect a fix, and i can ask for it all day long, but in the end, i don't have any right to get one.

[Tregon]

Aiyie wrote...

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Sir Fluffykins wrote...

If you have to pay for it, how could you pay not knowing what the "true conclusion" is. How do you know you won't get burnt again?

It seems this younger generation is conditioned to think that demanding value for your money is akin to "a false sense of entitlement". They actually look at it as a bad thing. Unless you just lay down and take it in the pooper like a good little sheep, you're a troublemaker.

it seems the older generation (im certainly hoping you're well past your thirties, because i have no desire to be lumped in with you and your line of thinking) has the sense that they are entitled to more than they paid for.

there's a difference between demanding value for your money and understanding that you got what you paid for.

i didn't pay to be involved in the development process.  the only thing i paid for was the right to play the game.  how the game turned out, its quality, that was not something i paid for.

sure, if i'd been able to audti the devs as they were making the game, or had a list of specifics wants/needs laid out in a contract prior to laying my money on the table, i'd be entitled to more.

You mean like producers list stuff that they say WILL be there? Like, you know, having all your decisions carry importance and that there won't be simple A,B or C-endings?

all that said, its just good business sense to make a fix for the shoddy product we did receive... but in no way shape or form are we entitled to such a fix... and we most certainly aren't entitled to receiving it for free.  id expect a fix, and i can ask for it all day long, but in the end, i don't have any right to get one.

As it stands, it is good business to fix mistake you make for free. Because in no way shape or form are we required to accept such poor treatment from Bioware and pretend it is just fine.

Vote with your wallet, buy something else. We have every right to decide we have had enough.

[wulf3n]

Lugaidster wrote...
So you''re saying they'll make a mistake because they made a mistake? If that's the case, ME3 is as good as dead... 

No I'm saying if they want us to have faith in them they'll have to earn it, not just do something they were going to do anyway.

Argue what you will, they were going to make DLC either way, the only difference is now they know what will sell more.

Modifié par wulf3n, 19 mars 2012 - 01:07 .

[Barbie__Boy]

when I say I am willing to pay to fix the ending I do not mean the last 5 min the absolutely ruined everything
frankly, the entire last mission was underwhelming I would prefer if they fixed the entire misson or added more after the current "ending"

sure, I refuse to pay to fix the last 5min and call it a day but if they give ME3 a truly epic ending I will pay.
sure it sucks but there is A lot I would like changed

[Keatstwo]

Obviously I'd rather not pay as it shouldn't have ever been shipped with these endings, but you can't expect the VAs etc. who can't be held accountable for this to work for free to make new endings.

I'd rather pay £7 or whatever for a decent ending than be stuck with the dismal conclusion to the series we have now.

[NUM13ER]

The notion of paid DLC wont help BioWare long term with the fans but if it helps people wipe away the memory of the ending in the short term...people will buy it. They might wait till others take the plunge and critics say its of a higher standard but it will be purchased. We've all seen comments like:

"On principle paying for it disgusts me, BUT I'll pay if it fixes the endings anyway"

I don't like it either. But would I pay for it if I'm told it's much better? Yes. I'd feel like fool but I would. The endings have broken any illusions of resisting any genuine alternative. However this paid DLC would mark the last bit of business EA/BioWare can expect from me in the foreseeable future. I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking they've shot themselves in the foot with those endings and they'll have to do something pretty special to win back the trust from their fans.

Modifié par NUM13ER, 19 mars 2012 - 01:10 .

[zsom]

wulf3n wrote...

And you'd take thier word?

Sure, why not. Just because we have different tastes doesn't mean I can't asked them questions, and they can't asnwer without massive spoilers. You can ask if the plotholes are fixed, if the DEM is retconned etc. And they can tell you if we finally find out what happened to the other squadmantes, or if we have happy/happier endings. I'm sure you have friends with different tastes  who could still suggest new movies / books you actually enjoyed watching / reading. Right?

[Tregon]

Keatstwo wrote...

Obviously I'd rather not pay as it shouldn't have ever been shipped with these endings, but you can't expect the VAs etc. who can't be held accountable for this to work for free to make new endings.

I'd rather pay £7 or whatever for a decent ending than be stuck with the dismal conclusion to the series we have now.

Again, Bioware has made huge amount of money from ME3. It does not turn into loss if they decide to take some red by providing decent free ending DLC to reclaim some of the lost trust.

Long term loss of business costs them a lot though, because they still have running expenditures but if their games/DLC does not sell, they have nothing to pay it with.

[evisneffo]

wulf3n wrote...

I don't know whats worse, the "polarizing" ending being an attempt to syphon more money out of the consumer, or a complete lack of judgement and disconnect with their player base. 

No disagreements on this one ...

I guess the former would be sickening and the latter just really, really sad.

[wulf3n]

zsom wrote...
Sure, why not. Just because we have different tastes doesn't mean I can't asked them questions, and they can't asnwer without massive spoilers. You can ask if the plotholes are fixed, if the DEM is retconned etc. And they can tell you if we finally find out what happened to the other squadmantes, or if we have happy/happier endings. I'm sure you have friends with different tastes  who could still suggest new movies / books you actually enjoyed watching / reading. Right?

I'm just saying if they've got different tastes and they liked the DLC that doesn't mean I will.

[ObsidianAgent]

Aiyie wrote...
Definition of ENTITLEMENT1 a[/i] : the state or condition of being entitled : right b[/i] : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract 2 : a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program 3 : belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges
the contract we, the customers, have with the developer/publisher extends only as far as giving us the right to experience their intellectual property in a video game medium.

the ending was never specifically detailed to us prior to our paying for it.  we were given an idea of what it would consist of, but nothing more.

And that idea of how the ending would be accomplished was a bald-faced lie. One that I happen not to care about. What I do care about is that the ending was a complete load.

a belief of being deserving of something is not the same as actually being deserving of something.

Who gives a rat's ass about deserves? This isn't about good behaviour or karma or justice or anything like that. I'm an unsatisfied customer who feels very strongly I've been provided a deficient product. BW can either fix it to my satisfaction for free or lose my goodwill. Talking about deserves is nonsensical and recasts the basic customer/supplier dynamic as if providing a product for sale is some sort of favour they're doing for us.

you can do as you please in regard to this... abandon them if you like, its not going to solve anything.  demanding things that are not only unreasonable, but absolutely outside the terms of your contract with the developer, is not going to do anything but hurt the movement.

So the contract doesn't stipulate I have the right to a satisfying, well-crafted game, so that's it? I just roll over and hand them my CC number for all the "more time-consuming ways to lose" DLC they're going to foist on us? Nope, don't think I will.

You can tell BW that you'll go the paid DLC route if you want but all you'll be doing is putting yourself on BW and EA's Useful Idiots list.

[HaesoME3]

Keatstwo wrote...

Obviously I'd rather not pay as it shouldn't have ever been shipped with these endings, but you can't expect the VAs etc. who can't be held accountable for this to work for free to make new endings.

I'd rather pay £7 or whatever for a decent ending than be stuck with the dismal conclusion to the series we have now.

... Where does this nonsense come from, I see many people posting things like this. Bioware can afford to pay EVERYONE to create a proper ending and still be WELL within the black for ME3. What makes you think free DLC means people aren't getting paid on the other end...

[wulf3n]

Here's a question!

who here could/would play ME2 WITHOUT Lair of the Shadow Broker and/or Arrival?

edit:

You lot who want to pay for "ending" dlc have nothing to worry about.

Modifié par wulf3n, 19 mars 2012 - 01:23 .