571 réponses à ce sujet

[Keatstwo]

HaesoME3 wrote...

Keatstwo wrote...

Obviously I'd rather not pay as it shouldn't have ever been shipped with these endings, but you can't expect the VAs etc. who can't be held accountable for this to work for free to make new endings.

I'd rather pay £7 or whatever for a decent ending than be stuck with the dismal conclusion to the series we have now.

... Where does this nonsense come from, I see many people posting things like this. Bioware can afford to pay EVERYONE to create a proper ending and still be WELL within the black for ME3. What makes you think free DLC means people aren't getting paid on the other end...

Of course they could. But do you really think they would? It's fairly likely that a lot of people will pay for it, I know I would if i had to, so why wouldn't they charge for it?

From a business perspective it's likely they'd have to cover the cost of producing new content in solid figures rather than just the nebulous concept of fanbase gratitude. How much does making people happy really amount to? Will a significant number of people avoid future games if they don't fix it? Nobody can tell really, so to go ahead i imagine they'd want to cover themselves financially to make sure that it's 100% worth their time doing it.

Modifié par Keatstwo, 19 mars 2012 - 01:25 .

[TheRealMithril]

ObsidianAgent wrote...

You can tell BW that you'll go the paid DLC route if you want but all you'll be doing is putting yourself on BW and EA's Useful Idiots list.

You can look at it that way if you want. I would not try to interpret their thinking or values personally. The people who support 'pay for DLC' might just as well end up on a 'BioWare friends list'. You simply don't know.

[Revan312]

Love the mentality of "Pating for it would suck, and is unethical, but I'll do it"....

Really? I mean I can understand the ****s who still to this moment believe that Bioware can do no wrong and this is just an honest mistake, but for others that KNOW this is an unethical practice, you'd still pay? wow...

I mean, I gave Bioware enough chances between ME2/DA2/SWTOR and now ME3.. But if this ending was developed for the sole reason of giving us a paid dlc release later on, then absolutely 100% screw Bioware and EA for the rest of time.. I won't be paying for it, it's a completely morally bankrupt strategy. Why would I give them an excuse to use that design decision again with later games?

That's all any of you guys would be doing, giving them carte blanche in how games can be rationed out with microtransactions and DLC.. It's like watching someone buy a TV that doesn't work, going back to the same store, and simply saying "sorry" and then buying another instantly. "Ya, they should repair it for free as it was broken out of box, but I just want TV so I don't care.."

O_o

[TheRealMithril]

I haven't had any issues with ME1 through ME3, except for the abyssmal ending. I think the series are stellar and I love them. I just think they dropped the ball on the ending, and they should fix it.

If I need to pay for it, fine. But then again, money is not such an issue for me. So, I might look at it with the same values either.

[Evercrow]

Revan312 wrote...

Love the mentality of "Pating for it would suck, and is unethical, but I'll do it"....

Really? I mean I can understand the ****s who still to this moment believe that Bioware can do no wrong and this is just an honest mistake, but for others that KNOW this is an unethical practice, you'd still pay? wow...

I mean, I gave Bioware enough chances between ME2/DA2/SWTOR and now ME3.. But if this ending was developed for the sole reason of giving us a paid dlc release later on, then absolutely 100% screw Bioware and EA for the rest of time.. I won't be paying for it, it's a completely morally bankrupt strategy. Why would I give them an excuse to use that design decision again with later games?

That's all any of you guys would be doing, giving them carte blanche in how games can be rationed out with microtransactions and DLC.. It's like watching someone buy a TV that doesn't work, going back to the same store, and simply saying "sorry" and then buying another instantly. "Ya, they should repair it for free as it was broken out of box, but I just want TV so I don't care.."

O_o

No, this group of people(which i belong to btw) think that the devs made a mistake. Now we need to encourage them to admit it and start working on fixing it.We can argue about the price(or lack of it) after that.

Also, when people say "I think it's bs, but I'll pay for it",that already answers your second argument, about encouraging money milking in the future. This is not encouraging. They are clearly saying they will pay because Mass Effect is dear to them, but that will be the last time.

Modifié par Evercrow, 19 mars 2012 - 01:41 .

[Aiyie]

So the contract doesn't stipulate I have the right to a satisfying, well-crafted game, so that's it? I just roll over and hand them my CC number for all the "more time-consuming ways to lose" DLC they're going to foist on us? Nope, don't think I will.

You can tell BW that you'll go the paid DLC route if you want but all you'll be doing is putting yourself on BW and EA's Useful Idiots list.

sure you do.

but here's the question... where did you specify the requirements that were necessary for it to be a "satisfying, well-crafted game" PRIOR to paying for it?  and where did the developer agree to your specifications, in a legal contract, PRIOR to you paying for it?

if you didn't do that, you don't deserve anything more than what you blindly paid for.

im just as angry as others about all this, but be realistic about it.  you got what you paid for, nothing more, nothing less.

doesn't mean we don't have the right to petition for a change, or that it be free... but to demand it, and not only that, demand it be given to us free of charge?  yea... we don't have ANY right to expect that.

it could happen, if the sales projections show it would benefit the company in the long run... but with all the projects they have to work on that could bring in new consumers (not to mention the newcomers to this particular series who may not react to the endings like we have), its just not likely.

[ThePrestige10]

Aiyie wrote...


im just as angry as others about all this, but be realistic about it.  you got what you paid for, nothing more, nothing less.

No. I payed for an ending that makes sense and fits to the tone of Mass Effect. Therefore i didn't get what I payed for. I didn't want a Deus Ex Machina and Space Magic to explain this 100 hour journey - because it is literally bad craftsmanship and just doesn't make sense at all.

It's as simple as that.

If you are fine with it - ok - then it's your thing.

Modifié par ThePrestige10, 19 mars 2012 - 01:48 .

[swn32]

Lugaidster wrote...

swn32 wrote...

Making a DLC that adds a few ending cutscenes that bring the story to a proper closure require countless months?

You are assuming that those willing to pay would pay for a bad quality solution. I'm pretty sure a few cutscenes done in a week won't entice anyone to buy it. If they are going to charge for you can be sure everyone will demand a quality product. After this whole fiasco there's no way anyone would preorder an ending DLC. Paid content =/= quality content, but money gives you leverage. The same leverage we are using right now to correct ME3. That's why I'm not taking money off the table.

That's why it should be free. A few cutscene that concludes the series properly. A proper epilogue, more endings where ur choices mattered, that is all. i don't see how that is a bad quality solution. I'm not asking for another DLC quest. Just a proper complete ending. The owe us that much.

Modifié par swn32, 19 mars 2012 - 01:58 .

[fox121]

If out of respect to the fans they created a new ending, I would grudgingly pay to bring the series to an end. However if it turns out true BW purposely with held the ending in an attempt to release it as DLC I will lose all respect for BW and EA, the concept is so unethical and will open the flood gates to other developers until we reach the point of buying a game and only getting a title screen.

Modifié par fox121, 19 mars 2012 - 01:58 .

[Aiyie]

ThePrestige10 wrote...

Aiyie wrote...


im just as angry as others about all this, but be realistic about it.  you got what you paid for, nothing more, nothing less.

No. I payed for an ending that makes sense and fits to the tone of Mass Effect. Therefore i didn't get what I payed for. I didn't want a Deus Ex Machina and Space Magic to explain this 100 hour journey - because it is literally bad craftsmanship and just doesn't make sense at all.

It's as simple as that.

If you are fine with it - ok - then it's your thing.

i can understand your feelings.  but look at it from the other side, step away from the emotions of anger, betrayal, confusion and disbelief.

you and i paid for a disc that enabled us to experience the story that they were telling.  we did not pay for any specific ending, we didn't even pay for an ending that makes sense.

hell, if you bought the game from a retailer you didn't even pay the company that produced the game.

what we paid for and we wanted are two totally different things.

please remember, what we wanted was not specified before we paid for it, therefore the developer was not, and is not, obligated to provide us with anything other than what they gave us.

if you want to help the cause, stop being unreasonable, stop making demands that have no foundation beyond what basically boils down to "i feel betrayed" ("i FEEL betrayed" is not the same thing as "i WAS betrayed")... otherwise you're only weakening the chance of them giving in. 

it seems like you believe acting like a stone wall will make the other wall move first.

[swn32]

fox121 wrote...

If out of respect to the fans they created a new ending, I would grudgingly pay to bring the series to an end. However if it turns out true BW purposely with held the ending in an attempt to release it as DLC I will lose all respect for BW and EA, the concept is so unethical and will open the flood gates to other developers until we reach the point of buying a game and only getting a title screen.

Or you can watch all the ending cutscenes on youtube. Would you pay for patches? If not, then why will you pay for an ending fix.

[cerberus1701]

IF (196 point font) there's new ending DLC it WILL be paid DLC.

Accept that now.

[ObsidianAgent]

Aiyie wrote...

So the contract doesn't stipulate I have the right to a satisfying, well-crafted game, so that's it? I just roll over and hand them my CC number for all the "more time-consuming ways to lose" DLC they're going to foist on us? Nope, don't think I will.

You can tell BW that you'll go the paid DLC route if you want but all you'll be doing is putting yourself on BW and EA's Useful Idiots list.

sure you do.

but here's the question... where did you specify the requirements that were necessary for it to be a "satisfying, well-crafted game" PRIOR to paying for it?  and where did the developer agree to your specifications, in a legal contract, PRIOR to you paying for it?

Why are you so obsessed with contracts? Are you saying that I don't understand a highly-paid team of lawyers can't write a EULA that basically states I have no right to anything? Who cares? Are we going to court? No.

if you didn't do that, you don't deserve anything more than what you blindly paid for.

Maybe, maybe not. But I know what won't get me what I want: acting like EA and BW have me over some sort of quasi-legalistic barrel. They don't. They want my money but they won't see one further penny from me until I'm satisfied.

im just as angry as others about all this, but be realistic about it.  you got what you paid for, nothing more, nothing less.

This is a remarkably short-sighted view and completely ignores the importance of customer goodwill to corporations. You're trying to make out like your some sort of super-consumer when you are coming over as a gullible mark making excuses for a legal fiction. Which is your right. My right, to free speech, means I have the right to pipe up and make sure my demands are clear and unequivocal. Try your bargaining all you want though - but being half-hearted gets no-one anywhere.

doesn't mean we don't have the right to petition for a change, or that it be free... but to demand it, and not only that, demand it be given to us free of charge?  yea... we don't have ANY right to expect that.

it could happen, if the sales projections show it would benefit the company in the long run... but with all the projects they have to work on that could bring in new consumers (not to mention the newcomers to this particular series who may not react to the endings like we have), its just not likely.

Those future projects (and current projects, like SWTOR) have been put at risk because with the ending given, BW have managed to annihilate the goodwill a large portion of their consumer base held for them. BW cannot generate goodwill by making customers pay for their own missteps. Without the goodwill from previous projects, those new projects will be endangered. BioWare, like a lot of the AAA devs, cannot afford a flop and goodwill factors into their revenue projections. They'd be cut loose from future EA funding in a heartbeat if EA thought the BW brand was damaged and loaning them the money to create new games was significantly more risky than it was when ME and SWTOR were green-lit.

[Edited for great justice and poor formatting]

Modifié par ObsidianAgent, 19 mars 2012 - 02:08 .

[Neuthung]

 Sorry, but it's completely unfair to demand the people of BioWare work for free. This was their intended ending, and if they decide to change things to cater to their fan base, we need to accept that they had to work overtime to achieve that. 

[CarolSephard]

I think EA/Bioware has no right to ask for money when they are the ones who screwed it up. Anyway, i would pay for that DLC if I have to, but it will be the last thing i buy from them.

[ThePrestige10]

Aiyie wrote...

ThePrestige10 wrote...

Aiyie wrote...


im just as angry as others about all this, but be realistic about it.  you got what you paid for, nothing more, nothing less.

No. I payed for an ending that makes sense and fits to the tone of Mass Effect. Therefore i didn't get what I payed for. I didn't want a Deus Ex Machina and Space Magic to explain this 100 hour journey - because it is literally bad craftsmanship and just doesn't make sense at all.

It's as simple as that.

If you are fine with it - ok - then it's your thing.

i can understand your feelings.  but look at it from the other side, step away from the emotions of anger, betrayal, confusion and disbelief.

you and i paid for a disc that enabled us to experience the story that they were telling.  we did not pay for any specific ending, we didn't even pay for an ending that makes sense.

hell, if you bought the game from a retailer you didn't even pay the company that produced the game.

what we paid for and we wanted are two totally different things.

please remember, what we wanted was not specified before we paid for it, therefore the developer was not, and is not, obligated to provide us with anything other than what they gave us.

if you want to help the cause, stop being unreasonable, stop making demands that have no foundation beyond what basically boils down to "i feel betrayed" ("i FEEL betrayed" is not the same thing as "i WAS betrayed")... otherwise you're only weakening the chance of them giving in. 

it seems like you believe acting like a stone wall will make the other wall move first.

First, I didn't buy a disc. I bought a digital product - or as you say content - through origin. So I just payed for the experience and not for my hard drive getting filled with senseless data.

Second, I don't think I am unreasonable. I am totally reasonable. They actually have said that there would be no end where we have to choose between A, B and C. And this is why I bought the actual content.

And third, I said this before, if Bioware won't give us free DLC, they will lose Customers for future DLC. This is economy (I was three years on an economy school) and therefore it's their best interest to give us free DLC.

Modifié par ThePrestige10, 19 mars 2012 - 02:19 .

[Tempalier]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

DLC necessary
Free preferred

[Roguekad]

cerberus1701 wrote...

IF (196 point font) there's new ending DLC it WILL be paid DLC.

Accept that now.

Exactly, IF they have to recode, bring back the voice
actors..... there will be expensive production costs that need to be covered. I
seriously doubt EA (remember their CEO went on record about charging for ammo
clips in MW3 when you're in the zone and not paying attention) will let them
dip into profits to produce this unless the backlash gets even worse. If PAX
explodes into an all-out mess MABEY, but I seriously doubt it will be free.

[Sequin]

As someone who has the 360 version of this trilogy, I can almost assure you that any DLC released for my platform will not be for free. The PC market might have more leeway in that regard, but Microsoft has rules for pricing in terms of what developers can put up for download for their games and what can and cannot be made free. Bioware, itself, would have little sway to change that.

Either way, if any DLC gets released I have no problem paying for it. In fact, I would expect for it to cost money given the extent of what is being asked for.

[wesr]

It needs to be free bu we already know they won't. They'll probably charge even more than normal just to spite us.

[HaesoME3]

cerberus1701 wrote...

IF (196 point font) there's new ending DLC it WILL be paid DLC.

Accept that now.

I don't believe you've understood the point here -

IF there's no fix or we have to pay for them to fix their own mistake, Bioware needs to accept quite a few people will not pay for it or anything they make in the future.

Neuthung wrote...

 Sorry, but it's completely unfair to
demand the people of BioWare work for free. This was their intended
ending, and if they decide to change things to cater to their fan base,
we need to accept that they had to work overtime to achieve
that. 

I'll never understand people like you. They wouldn't be working for free, stop spouting this nonsense.

They would not be working overtime, they would be delaying another project. And that's the cost of doing business - you either make it right when you screw up or you cut your losses and hope after the backlash you're still ahead. If we make it too expensive not to do this for free - they will do it for free.

Modifié par HaesoME3, 19 mars 2012 - 02:33 .

[ediskrad327]

yes it would be nice for it to be free, but we know that is NOT going to happen, EA is not Valve

[Aiyie]

Why are you so obsessed with contracts? Are you saying that I don't understand a highly-paid team of lawyers can't write a EULA that basically states I have no right to anything? Who cares? Are we going to court? No.

because acting like you have a right to more than you paid for is the worst kind of entitlement and its exactly the sort of thing that is making any effort to get anything better tougher to get.

until you figure out that you don't deserve or possess any inherent right to more than that what you got, you delegitimize the entire movement to get more.

unless youe entire purpose to be here is just to say how badly the devs did... in which case i have neither the need nor the desire to deal with you or your ilk.

be part of the solution or gtfo.

Modifié par Aiyie, 19 mars 2012 - 02:32 .

[HaesoME3]

Aiyie wrote...

Why are you so obsessed with contracts? Are you saying that I don't understand a highly-paid team of lawyers can't write a EULA that basically states I have no right to anything? Who cares? Are we going to court? No.

because acting like you have a right to more than you paid for is the worst kind of entitlement and its exactly the sort of thing that is making any effort to get anything better tougher to get.

until you figure out that you don't deserve or possess any inherent right to more than that what you got, you delegitimize the entire movement to get more.

unless youe entire purpose to be here is just to say how badly the devs did... in which case i have neither the need nor the desire to deal with you or your ilk.

be part of the solution or gtfo.

What we deserve and are entitled to is decided on an individual basis, how can you people not see this? If 90% of the people who purchase something decide they didn't get what they deserve - the company may or may not legally be obligated to make it right - but if they wish to stay a company much longer all the same they're going to try and make it right.

If you decide you got what you deserved, good for you, but only the CONSUMER can decide that unless you're trying to make a legal case. We're not trying to bring EA or Bioware to any court but that of public opinion. And in the court of public opinion whether or not we've got a case legally speaking - it's quite possible we can win and hurt them far too much for them to not make it right.

[Aiyie]

And third, I said this before, if Bioware won't give us free DLC, they will lose Customers for future DLC. This is economy (I was three years on an economy school) and therefore it's their best interest to give us free DLC.

just going to pull this bit out, the rest of it has been gone over ad nauseum and isn't worth revisiting (people have made up their minds, not worth the time or effort to try and change them).

but... we don't know if its really in their best interest or not.  thats all dependent on their sales projections.  as someone with an economic background you must be aware that a company with a diverse portfolio can afford to lose on one product line if its other lines will make up for it.

if in the end, the newcomers, the people who didn't pre-order or pick up the game on day 1 aren't as dissatisfied as the rest of us... then there is much less incentive for them to channel the resources (i.e. money) into making a fix.

hell, even if the newcomers are just as pissed, their projections are just as likely to show that they can charge us and take minimal, if any, long term losses.

we all would love to think our individual dollar is worth more than the other guy's, but it just isn't.