571 réponses à ce sujet

[Lugaidster]

swn32 wrote...

I can't believe how many people are willing to pay for the ending DLC. Future of gaming seems bleak. Thanks to all the tools of our generation.

I'm in awe at the ammount of intolerance...

[fox121]

swn32 wrote...

fox121 wrote...

If out of respect to the fans they created a new ending, I would grudgingly pay to bring the series to an end. However if it turns out true BW purposely with held the ending in an attempt to release it as DLC I will lose all respect for BW and EA, the concept is so unethical and will open the flood gates to other developers until we reach the point of buying a game and only getting a title screen.

Or you can watch all the ending cutscenes on youtube. Would you pay for patches? If not, then why will you pay for an ending fix.

Your missing the point



Many people who want a different ending areexpecting more than a scene with Shepard hugging it out with Garrus, I speak for myself when I say I want no trace of a magic child forcing 3 choices on me. If the ending was the final product from BW then they are being asked to create a brand new conclusion. Which means staff will have to put their time and effort in, you are naive to think people will work for free. It will take writers, developers, and actors etc. to further develop an area.

Modifié par fox121, 19 mars 2012 - 03:46 .

[blehblah123]

I don't see why I, the consumer, needs to be penalized for their mistake. I'd be fine with a donation system ... if they fix the ending..and if it's good..then you can choose to give them money ... but it should be our choice. Forcing us to pay for an ending we already paid for is lame. We shouldn't be rewarding people for making mistakes...

[cynicalsaint1]

I don't think we should expect it for free. I'm going to be realistic here:

If BioWare is spending time developing a new ending that means they're spending money doing it. This includes paying the people putting in extra hours to make something to make us happy.

Now it would be an awesome gesture for them to offer it for free. I think it could potentially earn them a lot of loyalty and good press, and they could write it off as a Marketing Expense or something. Will that happen? Its doubtful.

At the end of the day our most powerful weapons as consumers are our wallets, and the much more likely scenario is that they won't lose as many future sales from this as they would earn money from selling the DLC. So by refusing to pay we essentially give up our strongest weapon in this whole debate.

[garf]

Hexoskin wrote...

meisjoe wrote...

granyte wrote...

The ending need to be fixed for free just look at the amount of plot holes the actual ending created.
these plot holes need to be fixed for free now if they wanna add some dlc content after the plot holes have been fixed fine for them.

but we need to stop setteling for crap if we bow down and buy a DLC only to fix what they broke we are basicaly saying it's alright put out crap and then have me pay so you fix what you did wrong.

I absolutely do not agree.  Free endings would mean "cheap" endings...  Let me pay for it and give me  something AMAZING! 

AFAIK We all already paid 60+$ on a perfect ending.

All you dumbasses who are willing to pay for them to fix their own mistakes are only screaming for that black guy to come bumfuk you in the shower again.

Company screws you by providing a lousy product, you screw yourself by throwing money at it in hopes of a new ending that SHOULD come free of charge.

Are you all really so narrowminded that you can't even comprehend just a small part of the big picture? If you're willing to pay now for them to fix their own damn ****, how long do you truly think it'll take till this "Unfortunate incident" is repeated?

You're saying it yourselves, it's a Corperation, they want money, if you want to pay now, you can bet your asses you'll be buying more flawed games in the future, just to have lolol games now fixed DLC a few months later.

Get your heads out of your asses and realize where you throwing money at this **** is putting gaming and gamers in general. (We're all left at a disadvantage if i TRULY need to spell it out for you.)

Again PLEASE. you have a point. Really you do. But alienating the person with whom you're trying to make the point helps nothing.

I think we should shelve the whole "I'll pay" thing off the table until they come TO the table If you have to Pay anywhere, drop more money on 'child's play' That's money EA/Bioware COULD be getting but they are not. As soon as I fix small issue I'm having with Pay Pal I intend to drop next months 'fun budget' (money that WOULD have been spent exclusively on the ME franchise this month)  as a donation. Even corporations get this point.

I'm not saying you don't have a valid stance. I'm saying that offering before Bioware has agreed there is even a reason to acknowledge a problem with their product, weakens our position. IMO it doesn't hold the line as strongly as if we present a united front.

[CmdrSkinner]

Sorry but expecting & demanding BW (assuming this isn't planned, indoc theory etc...) to produce this 'ending DLC' for free is both unrealistic & unreasonable. Neither will demanding BW give it to you get the conclusion you want.

I don't expect anything for free, no matter how bad the current endings are. The fact that I would be willing to pay a reasonable sum for a quality 'ending dlc' is no excuse for BW to produce inferior products in the future either, that would only add to the damage already done. If they choose to offer it for free however, that would be a lovely gesture and hats of to them!

Modifié par CmdrSkinner, 19 mars 2012 - 04:10 .

[garf]

HaesoME3 wrote...

garf wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...
Yes I would, it would be bittersweet, but I prefer that to no/crappy DLC. With money I have leverage, without it I have to take what they give and be thankful.d

No we don't have to be thankful.

and that's what will make us powerful, not grovelling at ea's feet, begging for scraps.

Don't put words in my mouth please. You can have different opinion on this but don't dare call me a beggar. I'm not grovelling at anyones feet, I'm using what I believe is my weapon. You use what you believe is yours. I'm tired of the condescending tone all this responses to "giving money" have. Don't want to give money? Great for you, make sure to state it as you have been doing, but don't diminish others because they don't share your opinion.

Guys ... CHILL .. please.

I don't know who tossed the apple of discord into this thread but but EA is laughing it's way the bank everytime we get hot under the collar at the enemy of our enemy. please remember that. The rEApers are going to win unless you turians and krogans can stop turning everything into a personal fight. Dig?

Whether people argue or not - something will always remain:

• If they do nothing, or worse pretend everything is fine and carry on with other DLC, they will garner a level of customer dissatisfaction that will hurt them in the long run.
• If they extend the olive branch and provide the fixed ending for free, they will gain an immense boost in customer satisifaction - the people villifying the game/studio now will be the ones singing Bioware's praises.
  If they charge for the fixed endings, many will pay for it, others will not. Many will feel cheated, some will even feel it was done intentionally to squeeze more money out of it's fans whether or not there's even any evidence to support it. Of those that purchase it, many will do so in disgust and at best regard future titles with suspicion if not outright hostility. Those that do not purchase will all almost likely few future titles with hostility if they acknowledge them at all.

Nobody here has numbers on how many people fall into each category depending on their choices. It's up to bioware to decide if they feel they can accept the hit in the court of public opinion to do nothing, or to charge for the fixed DLC. Which will earn them more money in the long run - will be the good will and positive word of mouth of a free fix? Will it be to sweep it under the rug and hope we turn out to be a vocal minority? Will it be to charge us for their own mistake and bank on the majority being placated and the movement losing all impact?


I earn a living making games, I'd make it right by the fans if I made a mistake and bank on them supporting me in the future in exchange for making it right. Good will and word of mouth are worth quite a lot of money in today's market, but is it's value enough according to Bioware's executives? We'll see.

Hear Hear.

Stay strong, Stay CIVIL, Stay on Message.

No Closure
No Sense
No Future
No Choice

... No money. No silence.

[garf]

Lugaidster wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Hexoskin wrote...

All you dumbasses [...] that black guy to come bumfuk you in the shower again.

Get your heads out of your asses...

Whoa! That right there convinced me to agree with you...


NOT! If you can't even argue without insulting you're not worth the effort. That response made as much sense as those who call as entitled brats. 

And if you're willing to buy a fixed ending DLC you should be slapped. kthx.

Psst... You're just giving the media further evidence of how childish some of us are (IE you). Keep insulting behind that keyboard of yours, it goes a long way on NOT helping us fulfill our goal. 

Stay Civil... Please... Taht means you Hexoskin.  And Lugaidster. Don't forget the possiblity of astroturfing take a deep breath and resist the impulse to become what you rightly said weakens our cuase.

[garf]

Lugaidster wrote...

swn32 wrote...

Making a DLC that adds a few ending cutscenes that bring the story to a proper closure require countless months?

You are assuming that those willing to pay would pay for a bad quality solution. I'm pretty sure a few cutscenes done in a week won't entice anyone to buy it. If they are going to charge for you can be sure everyone will demand a quality product. After this whole fiasco there's no way anyone would preorder an ending DLC. Paid content =/= quality content, but money gives you leverage. The same leverage we are using right now to correct ME3. That's why I'm not taking money off the table.

Exactly. As EA/Bioware isn't even at the table. There's not point in prematurely dividing ourselves and weakening our position before we even sit down. heck before we even KNOW bioware will sit down with us. Value vs. Cost is an endgame discussion. Have them make an offer before we rule on it.

[theffernan]

At this point, any type of ending dlc would be a victory. Free would be a nice gesture, but I'm sure most of us would gladly pay.

[garf]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

Sir Fluffykins wrote...

If you have to pay for it, how could you pay not knowing what the "true conclusion" is. How do you know you won't get burnt again?

It seems this younger generation is conditioned to think that demanding value for your money is akin to "a false sense of entitlement". They actually look at it as a bad thing. Unless you just lay down and take it in the pooper like a good little sheep, you're a troublemaker.

Sigh... looks.. I have said something similar I'm sure on ONE of my other posts somewhere. IF you're talking to some shill from IGN maybe this works. but... I don't think this will convince any of the 'sheep' to see it your way. Which is what you and I want. so can we... rephrase?

[garf]

evisneffo wrote...

Sir Fluffykins wrote...

If you have to pay for it, how could you pay not knowing what the "true conclusion" is. How do you know you won't get burnt again?

It would take an extra level of colossal stupidity to try the same thing twice, or to make a paid DLC in this situation without doing careful research as to what would work best given the current level of damage.

Valid point though, and I imagine a fair few people will wait until someone else has bought and played it first.

OH!!! no question here. And NO reviwer who previously rated the game over 7/10 (or failed to discuss the ending, or from IGN will be taken seriously when evaluating that content. Tempted to say Penny Arcade lost my interest for jumping on the 'whiney entitlement' bandwagon too)

[Pelle6666]

Agreed! That would be preferable.
I would still pay them to do a good work though.

[Aiyie]

ThePrestige10 wrote...

Aiyie wrote...

And third, I said this before, if Bioware won't give us free DLC, they will lose Customers for future DLC. This is economy (I was three years on an economy school) and therefore it's their best interest to give us free DLC.

just going to pull this bit out, the rest of it has been gone over ad nauseum and isn't worth revisiting (people have made up their minds, not worth the time or effort to try and change them).

but... we don't know if its really in their best interest or not.  thats all dependent on their sales projections.  as someone with an economic background you must be aware that a company with a diverse portfolio can afford to lose on one product line if its other lines will make up for it.

if in the end, the newcomers, the people who didn't pre-order or pick up the game on day 1 aren't as dissatisfied as the rest of us... then there is much less incentive for them to channel the resources (i.e. money) into making a fix.

hell, even if the newcomers are just as pissed, their projections are just as likely to show that they can charge us and take minimal, if any, long term losses.

we all would love to think our individual dollar is worth more than the other guy's, but it just isn't. 

Your view is a little bit to focused on the company side. It's not only them, but also we - the customer.

And I fear - as much as I admire this community and as much that I believe you are a decent person - that too many apologists will hurt this cause. The term "useful idiot" was used in this thread, which I think fits. A company can be hard and unfair. Customers should be too or they have no chance against business.

I'm not saying we should be uncivil or impolite. Just that we should stick to what we deserve as a consumer and fight for it. Everything else will hurt the cause more. We should not be against each other in this community. And a huge majority thinks, that this is a bad and undeserved ending for an otherwise awesome trilogy. Me too.

Bioware also should respect this fact. It's not about a single customer. It's about hundreds of thousands (facebook, poll hints this number).

agreed, but my point is, that in the court of public opinion (thanks to the guy who first said that btw).  just about everyone agrees we need something, im just disagreeing at the way we're asking for it.

by refusing to compromise, we've already lost.  the devs will look at any effort they might put in and just shrug their shoulders, comment about how even if they did do something for us, we wouldn't accept it on anything but our terms, and just count their losses and move on instead.

we're not the ones creating the content or putting the time, effort and money into its creation.  we look like poor losers if the devs do offer to create new content for us... but we refuse to accept it because its not free.

if its about the principle, wouldn't it make sense to paint ourselves as not only the material victor, but also the moral victor as well (assuming that we get anything at all that is).

[garf]

cerberus1701 wrote...

IF (196 point font) there's new ending DLC it WILL be paid DLC.

Accept that now.

No. Hold the line. First let me see what the offer is. The ball in Bioware's court. They can offer something so AMAZING that I would go 'yeah. I'll pay for that' or they can offer something free I can play through and grudgingly admit 'okay.. that fixes things... I guess...." and MAYBE get me to buy DLC if I'm not too bummed. OR they can offer something amazing free of additional charge and make me absolutely LOVE them again. If it included a sincere appology (though free amazing content might be apology enough) I might even trust enough to give them pre-order money (They'd have to PROVE they were REALLY sorry.)

But all of these choices come AFTER they make their offer. Until then.

No Closure
No Sense
No Choice

... No Money. No Silence.

Hold the Line

[Aiyie]

ObsidianAgent wrote...

Aiyie wrote...

ObsidianAgent wrote...
Why are you so obsessed with contracts? Are you saying that I don't understand a highly-paid team of lawyers can't write a EULA that basically states I have no right to anything? Who cares? Are we going to court? No.

because acting like you have a right to more than you paid for is the worst kind of entitlement and its exactly the sort of thing that is making any effort to get anything better tougher to get.

until you figure out that you don't deserve or possess any inherent right to more than that what you got, you delegitimize the entire movement to get more.

unless youe entire purpose to be here is just to say how badly the devs did... in which case i have neither the need nor the desire to deal with you or your ilk.

be part of the solution or gtfo.

I've never trashed the devs on a single occasion. I believe 99% of ME3 is gaming Nirvana. And I cannot get through my head why someone would be so hostile to someone who is trying to get a better deal that they themselves want.

because the only time demanding unconditional surrender works is when you've got all the power and the other side has no choice but to capitulate.

that is definitely not the case here, since we're dependent on the devs creating the content for us.

[KaeserZen]

I think that a Free DLC would be the most honest and caring move.

But, as long as the DLC is there, I am willing to purchase it. This is a good compromise, I beleive.
However, if would have to have at least one long level, worthy of a trilogy's true finale for me not to feel ripped off.

Modifié par KaeserZen, 19 mars 2012 - 04:28 .

[garf]

theffernan wrote...

At this point, any type of ending dlc would be a victory. Free would be a nice gesture, but I'm sure most of us would gladly pay.

Perhaps this is true but do you think conceding that point before Bioware Concedes there is even a problem helps? They ARE listening.  to all Forums remember.

[detroitmechworks]

Aiyie wrote...

because the only time demanding unconditional surrender works is when you've got all the power and the other side has no choice but to capitulate.

that is definitely not the case here, since we're dependent on the devs creating the content for us.

Nope.  We are not dependent on them.  They are dependent on our money.

They don't want to make the DLC, they don't get our money for any other products.

and EA loooooooves money.  they really love money....

[DemGeth]

You can't get free dlc on the consoles from EA.

Modifié par DemGeth, 19 mars 2012 - 04:29 .

[Grudge_NL]

YES Op. You are so damn right. Let's not pay Programmers, 3D/2D artists, Level Designers, Voice Actors, Lead Designers and everyone else. Let them make the DLC and give it free.

Yeah Like that's ever going to happen. Are you guys still stuck in school or something ? It's time you experienced Real Life.

This is one of the many reasons why Game companies don't owe us anything. Just some of the forum member's lack of real Life experience alone...

Modifié par Grudge_NL, 19 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[KaeserZen]

garf wrote...
Perhaps this is true but do you think conceding that point before Bioware Concedes there is even a problem helps? They ARE listening.  to all Forums remember.

I think he's not selling himself short. That would be saying : "I'm ready to pay $60 for an ending DLC"

A paid DLC is, I think, a reasonable demand that has more chance of being realized than a Free DLC.

Even though, the Free DLC would be an extremely nice gesture.

[SirCroft]

Do I think it should be free? Yes.
Would I shamelessly pay for it? Yes, too.

[Exeider]

It should be free, as its been said, it's an incomplete product, or at the very least false advertising.
The public statements made by the developers even as recent as a month before release, could be considered legally as a contract, especially since it was released in both PRINT and VERBAL forms.

Since Bioware violated such promises, at the very least its False Advertising, at the most its breech of contract. But that's if you willing to argue it in court. And I'm sure there are a Wall of lawyers for EA and Bioware that would keep it from even going to court.

But that's neither here nor there, the fact is is Bioware wants to fix this PR nightmare, though its not capitalist, they should bite the bullet and release it for free, if they are even doing it at all.

WHY? you ask? Well in the interest of future profits, it has already been said by a sizeable chunk of people here, that if they don't release ending DLC to fix this, they are flat NOT going to buy any DLC from bioware, a sub-set of that chunk have said that if its not free they will abstain.

So, If I was in their shoes, well first off I wouldn't of allowed this situation to happen in the first place i would of released a good ending, but if I was in their shoes TODAY, I would argue that in the interest of Public good will and repairing the trust that has been damaged, we(as in bioware), should do the community a solid on this one and just make it to the best of our ability and release it for free, and not skimp on quality because its free, because these people already paid us for this ending. Then I would say, but yeah, we will charge them for future DLC, and it would be expected of course.

-Æ

[Aiyie]

detroitmechworks wrote...

Aiyie wrote...

because the only time demanding unconditional surrender works is when you've got all the power and the other side has no choice but to capitulate.

that is definitely not the case here, since we're dependent on the devs creating the content for us.

Nope.  We are not dependent on them.  They are dependent on our money.

They don't want to make the DLC, they don't get our money for any other products.

and EA loooooooves money.  they really love money....

well, i do agree, EA loves their money... which is why i think we'll get something.

but... we are dependent on them.  beacuse lets face it, for as much bad press as they're getting from us, the loyal fans... the lack of our business is very likely to be fully compensated by someone who doesn't have the same emotional investment as we do.

we really don't have as much power as people think... i sincerely doubt the movement is so large and influential as to impact EA, or Bioware's, bottom dollar when we withhold our money by refusing to purchase future products.

for every customer lost, you can bet they will get a new customer (there are already threads about how newcomers that didn't pre-order or buy on day 1 don't mind the ending). 

do you honestly think they'd still be in business if their business plan is this dependent on our relatively small segment of their market?

remember the old saying, "there's a sucker born every minute"  yea, sorry to break everyone's bubble, but we are not special and unique snowflakes... we're disposable income that can be easily replaced.

if we want anything done, we don't have much choice but to do it on their terms.  if we're lucky, we'll get to negotiate some, but don't expect it.  its in their best interest to please us, rather than take a loss, but if we push them, they can take the loss and in the end we're the ones worse off for it.

Modifié par Aiyie, 19 mars 2012 - 04:45 .