571 réponses à ce sujet

[granyte]

Plaim wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

granyte wrote...

sending an incomplete product and making false advertising about it should invalidate EA as a game publisher

It had a ending. It was crap but it had an ending so it was a "complete" product.  False advertising and lies cant be denied.  By this we demand a fix.  They provide one I purchase it and forgive them their transgressions, though I pay more attention to any future purchases until they redeem themselves.  They don't fix the error well then they lose my continued business in the future forever.  Capitalism.  The people to blame for the ending fiasco are the writers and the exec heads that gave the nonsensical Godchild idea the green light.  The VAs, programmers, and all the other guys that do the real work and dont get far enough credit shouldnt be forced to work for free. They did what they were told to do.  I feel again if they do the work to give me a better ending I can shell out a few dollars.  

I concur. Bioware is not some evil monster that purposefully set out to ****** off its fans. It's full of individual people who worked extremely hard on Mass Effect 3, and had nothing to do with the ending sucking. If the folks in charge actually listen to us and try to change the ending, then all of the employees should not have work for free due to the bad decisions of a few producers.

the employe are not the ones that will work for free the ones that actualy put unrealistic dead lines will have on the other hand to shelve from thier freaking fat profit

[Shallyah]

I'd pay for a DLC that fixes the endings and explains what happened to each race and squad mate. If you wouldn't, your point of view is respected, but developping additional content isn't free and there are a lot of employes that need to feed their families because they do that stuff for a living.

Modifié par Shallyah, 19 mars 2012 - 09:53 .

[DanBol]

-snip-

Modifié par DanBol, 19 mars 2012 - 09:56 .

[Lugaidster]

granyte wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Vasparian wrote...

Grumpy-Mcfart wrote...

granyte wrote...

The ending need to be fixed for free just look at the amount of plot holes the actual ending created.
these plot holes need to be fixed for free now if they wanna add some dlc content after the plot holes have been fixed fine for them.

but we need to stop setteling for crap if we bow down and buy a DLC only to fix what they broke we are basicaly saying it's alright put out crap and then have me pay so you fix what you did wrong.

given the resources that would go into fixing the ending. it is unreasonable to expect them to fix it and ask nothing in return

It was unreasonable for them to end the game the way they did.

There's no objective way to demonstrate this claim. Given that, it is unreasonable to demand something for free when there's no proof of the harm. Besides, I'd rather have a quality ending than a free one, and no, you can't have both because there's no incentive for quality without the money. I'm not saying you have to accept it, but there's no reason to demand that everyone should refuse it.

there is it's called post sales customer service or making sure a product works as intended and advertised that generaly makes sure client are satisfied with the product and will come back for more

that's like buying a usb key at best buy but the connector is broken (by desing) so the key is useless and now you have to buy a new one instead of just exchanging it for one that works or having it fixed if it can be

Again, bad analogy. The product is not broken, otherwise it would be universally critiqued as such. Given that there are people (minority or majority doesn't matter) that liked the ending, it's a subjective matter. You can't transform something as subjective as this into a broken usb key analogy.

[DanBol]

-snip-

Modifié par DanBol, 19 mars 2012 - 09:56 .

[rejoicelife]

I think its funny to see that people really think they will get something like the ending DLC for free. BioWare is not making any decisions in that regards. Its EA. And you can be more than sure that IF a new ending DLC will be released, that it will cost money just like all the other additional content that will come for ME3.

And since The Witcher 2 came up, CD Projekt are not dependent on any publisher. If they want to release free DLC or anything like that, its their own decision. BioWare will never get this kind of control under the influence of EA.

[HaesoME3]

Lugaidster wrote...

Vasparian wrote...

Grumpy-Mcfart wrote...

granyte wrote...

The ending need to be fixed for free just look at the amount of plot holes the actual ending created.
these plot holes need to be fixed for free now if they wanna add some dlc content after the plot holes have been fixed fine for them.

but we need to stop setteling for crap if we bow down and buy a DLC only to fix what they broke we are basicaly saying it's alright put out crap and then have me pay so you fix what you did wrong.

given the resources that would go into fixing the ending. it is unreasonable to expect them to fix it and ask nothing in return

It was unreasonable for them to end the game the way they did.

There's no objective way to demonstrate this claim. Given that, it is unreasonable to demand something for free when there's no proof of the harm. Besides, I'd rather have a quality ending than a free one, and no, you can't have both because there's no incentive for quality without the money. I'm not saying you have to accept it, but there's no reason to demand that everyone should refuse it.

The only thing that's reasonable here is they can expect me to never buy another EA product if they charge for a fixed ending or leave it as is. I won't demand or expect anything, but they'll alienate me forever if they try and make us pay for their own mistakes.

I won't support unethical business practices like that, I'd rather ME ends the way it did than encourage them to treat their consumers like this. This isn't about demanding anything, this is about what we as consumers deserve, we feel we didn't get what we deserved for $60 - they can either agree and broker for good will and future sales, or disagree and I won't ever do business with them again and advise anyone who listens to do the same.

Modifié par HaesoME3, 19 mars 2012 - 09:57 .

[blue_cosmos]

I'd rather pay for amazingly done and satisfying ending than get a cheap, rather negligible pieces of text. While I agree that the current ending never should've been put out there, the fact is, the product has shipped and to get all the voice actors back, get the developers to spend good effort on a well-deserved ending means it would be done best with a paid DLC retcon (but please let it be a reasonable price <$10.00)

[DanBol]

EA's not privately owned, it's a stock-based company. There's no way they'll allow Bioware to give it for free. That's bad business in the short term, regardless of the long-term effect. If you understand the most basic business models you'll understand why Valve has good deals and EA has bad.


EDIT: Oh ****, server problems or something, I accidentally triple-posted.

Modifié par DanBol, 19 mars 2012 - 09:55 .

[swn32]

staindgrey wrote...

Yes. This is exactly what we need to do.

When we've already bought the game and have just about zero leverage with which to make demands, we should stand strong and demand that Bioware/EA pool their resources to give us free stuff. Compromising and offering to pay a small amount in order to justify them fixing our bad ending is just way beyond reasonable.

Get off your high horses, people. Making demands "for free" will earn us nothing. You already bought the product, and the suits already know that our threats of boycotting are almost guaranteed to be empty in the majority of the fan population. Instead, let's make more specific appeals for what we want, and how much we're actually willing to pay. Because, let's face it, if it happens we WILL have to pay for it. They can't possibly call in all the talent they need and not charge.

I'm sure u also supported having to pay 10$ for a DLC which had 15 mins of gameplay, 2 useless bonus powers and its only saving grace was the dragon ballz weapon.

[Irkalla]

I'm not even asking for an ending dlc -- that would imply that I'm actually willing to pay for it. I'm asking for an ending PATCH. Just calling it as I see it.

[Lugaidster]

swn32 wrote...

naes1984 wrote...

Piracy is illegal. Making a bad ending is not. We are not entitled to do this. It is theft. Owners of IP can (and do) sue pirates successfully.

Why are we discussing piracy? That's just beyond retarded, I'm sorry but it is. 

[shurryy]

Now... Here's the thing.
The voice actors and staff that were not responsible for the writing of the story and just did as they were told, are all just doing their jobs. However without income there won't be any payment, hence the motivation for working will be minimal.

Urgh screw the speeches, YES I'd pay for a better ending DLC + some added content.

[shengar]

Well, freebies like Valve usually gave is good but we talking baout no Valve here. We talking about indoctrinated BioWare by rEAper. I'll still buy it, but this, ME3, will be the last game I'll ever buy from any EA product.

[Madecologist]

granyte wrote...

we live in the world we let them drag us into if we let them milk our money through screwing and making us pay to fix it then the world will be like that but if we make that practice unviable because we don't give them money if they try they won't do it

you guys seem to be missing the point this fight is bigger then just an ending to ME3 it's about the way the entire gaming industrie works and will evolve if we let them go this way they will certainly go this way

Point a gun at a person and tell him you won't kill him if he gives you a hundred dollars. If doesn't have hundred dollars, he will only have two choices.... fall to his knees and beg for his life or attack you outright hoping he can knock the gun out of your hand.

This is what is called the impossible demand (though using a criminal encounter as an example). Apply that model here, the company will have two choices. Fall on its knees and apologise saying that the messed up but can not do a free DLC or Resist. Call your bluff that you will boycott them (the fight back approach).

Then the ball is back in your court. Will you boycott the company? If yes, then hopefully enough people will do it too. The profts will drop, the message will be sent (using the previous metaphor... you pulled the trigger). Actually this is what will send a clear message to the industry. EA/BW loosing finicial assests will make other companies realise the dangers of messing around.

I hate paid DLC, I am not going to buy a paid DLC. But I also am quite ready to pull that trigger in the metaphor. If you read my post history you will notice I am more into the no DLC and never buy from BW category. Heck I even have a post where I map out the fall of BW and why. Because I do believe there will be no free DLC, I already pre-cocked my hammer, barrel pointed (metaphorically only).

I already made my choice and the question you need to ask yourself, what is more important to you? A Better Ending DLC, or pulling the trigger on BW? I already made mine *pulls trigger* Because I believe they will never do it for free.

Disclaimer: The pulling of the trigger is tied to the metaphor used. This post does not encourage acts of criminal violance, anyone that has trouble grasping a metaphor I do apologise. This poster actually discourages any act of violance and this disclaimer is for legal reasons only. Now I feel like a table top gaming book.

Modifié par Madecologist, 19 mars 2012 - 10:10 .

[Plaim]

granyte wrote...

Plaim wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

granyte wrote...

sending an incomplete product and making false advertising about it should invalidate EA as a game publisher

It had a ending. It was crap but it had an ending so it was a "complete" product.  False advertising and lies cant be denied.  By this we demand a fix.  They provide one I purchase it and forgive them their transgressions, though I pay more attention to any future purchases until they redeem themselves.  They don't fix the error well then they lose my continued business in the future forever.  Capitalism.  The people to blame for the ending fiasco are the writers and the exec heads that gave the nonsensical Godchild idea the green light.  The VAs, programmers, and all the other guys that do the real work and dont get far enough credit shouldnt be forced to work for free. They did what they were told to do.  I feel again if they do the work to give me a better ending I can shell out a few dollars.  

I concur. Bioware is not some evil monster that purposefully set out to ****** off its fans. It's full of individual people who worked extremely hard on Mass Effect 3, and had nothing to do with the ending sucking. If the folks in charge actually listen to us and try to change the ending, then all of the employees should not have work for free due to the bad decisions of a few producers.

the employe are not the ones that will work for free the ones that actualy put unrealistic dead lines will have on the other hand to shelve from thier freaking fat profit

I know they won't be literally working for free, but creating the amount of new content that most of us want with zero chance of profit might well have negative effects on them in the future. $10 or whatever is really not a lot to ask.

[Lugaidster]

For those arguing that the game is "broken" and that's why it has to be free, please demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that the game is objectively broken. I want to see that...

[swn32]

Lugaidster wrote...

Why are we discussing piracy? That's just beyond retarded, I'm sorry but it is. 

Because some people do not understand the difference between software piracy and theft.

Modifié par swn32, 19 mars 2012 - 10:00 .

[naes1984]

Lugaidster wrote...

For those arguing that the game is "broken" and that's why it has to be free, please demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that the game is objectively broken. I want to see that...

Agreed . I wish I could explain to a court why Michael Bey's movies are fundamentally broken, but they're not; they're just bad.

[Tregon]

Miphious wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

SentinelBorg wrote...
Some do: http://exophase.com/...t-free-upgrade/

 cdprojekt... i love you. first you give the finger to drm, then you bypass stupid censorship laws, and now this. 

That's just...I can't put it in words. I feel like going out and buying The Witcher 2 now. You know what? I'm going to go do that.

^ This. 

I kept being told I needed to play that game but never got to it. Now I see this is the company that WANTS my business. I shall give it to them then. 

Well, I guess I could afford a good game with decent publisher... Specially now that I do not need to wonder if I ever put more money into Bioware pocket...

Yeah, time to get me some Witcher...

[TheRealMithril]

In regards to "the difference", words tend to change meaning over time. It is how the collective interprets the meaning that counts. .. That aside, getting a copy without paying is not exactly showing support for a game you love.

[naes1984]

swn32 wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Why are we discussing piracy? That's just beyond retarded, I'm sorry but it is. 

Because some people do not understand the difference between software piracy and theft.

There is no substantive difference no matter how much you try to justify one or the other.

[GothamLord]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. BioWare KickStarter Program. for New Ending DLC. They can set an realistic production cost for programing, rehiring VAs, etc. If the fans all throw in 5 bucks a pop we automatically get a redemption code for it when its released along with maybe a bonus. Anyone else can buy it later on the market i they want it once its done. If people dont show them there is enough fan supporting willing to pay for it, BioWare can walk away cleanly saying "No" to the idea.

Tim Schafer and Double Fine just banked over 3 million dollars from their Kickstarter program. They were only asking for 400,000. Can you imagine the insane ending we would get if the ending DLC got that kind of extra support?

[HaesoME3]

Plaim wrote...

granyte wrote...

Plaim wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

granyte wrote...

sending an incomplete product and making false advertising about it should invalidate EA as a game publisher

It had a ending. It was crap but it had an ending so it was a "complete" product.  False advertising and lies cant be denied.  By this we demand a fix.  They provide one I purchase it and forgive them their transgressions, though I pay more attention to any future purchases until they redeem themselves.  They don't fix the error well then they lose my continued business in the future forever.  Capitalism.  The people to blame for the ending fiasco are the writers and the exec heads that gave the nonsensical Godchild idea the green light.  The VAs, programmers, and all the other guys that do the real work and dont get far enough credit shouldnt be forced to work for free. They did what they were told to do.  I feel again if they do the work to give me a better ending I can shell out a few dollars.  

I concur. Bioware is not some evil monster that purposefully set out to ****** off its fans. It's full of individual people who worked extremely hard on Mass Effect 3, and had nothing to do with the ending sucking. If the folks in charge actually listen to us and try to change the ending, then all of the employees should not have work for free due to the bad decisions of a few producers.

the employe are not the ones that will work for free the ones that actualy put unrealistic dead lines will have on the other hand to shelve from thier freaking fat profit

I know they won't be literally working for free, but creating the amount of new content that most of us want with zero chance of profit might well have negative effects on them in the future. $10 or whatever is really not a lot to ask.

It's not about the price, I could afford $100 for a new ending, that's not the issue - most of us that want free DLC could afford paid DLC - but the precedent it sets is unhealthy for the industry and I won't support. "Any time we make a mistake, we just fix it and charge them and they'll THANK us, printing money."

[swn32]

naes1984 wrote...

swn32 wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Why are we discussing piracy? That's just beyond retarded, I'm sorry but it is. 

Because some people do not understand the difference between software piracy and theft.

There is no substantive difference no matter how much you try to justify one or the other.

This topic has been debated to death and there are very good arguments on both sides. Although you may choose ignore them, I wont bother trying to justify as it would be going offtopic.