571 réponses à ce sujet

[Evanz]

Plaim wrote...

I concur. Bioware is not some evil monster that purposefully set out to ****** off its fans. It's full of individual people who worked extremely hard on Mass Effect 3, and had nothing to do with the ending sucking. If the folks in charge actually listen to us and try to change the ending, then all of the employees should not have work for free due to the bad decisions of a few producers.

For free??? 3,5milions shipped copies for 50 $ each does not qualify as "working for free!"
even if half of that gets sold it will bring them over 100$ income.

Do you naively believe that people who would actually work 8h/day to create a better ending are paid like 200$ per hour? Of course not.

Be assured that a bonus cash has been given to all producers ater a successful sale. Probably for their "efforts" and "creativity".

I did worked in Game Dev, now I am about to go solo. I have seen how decisions that affect all players are made and seriously EA/Activision bussiness style is all about money vs time, not about people, fun, fanbase and long term profit.

PR of the companies are mostly people who are deluded and have no connection to the actual product being developed whatsoever, neither have a real knowledge of what the product offers and what are fans expectation.

No company hires a person to read through forums and do a research.
All they see is sale charts vs defining characteristics of the product.


So back to what You have said:
It is time for the consumers, gamers to finally vote with their money and take down the companies that do that crap. Enough of DRMs that make games unplayable, broken content, DLCs crafted out of what is already on game disc.

If any story writer makes such an ending as the one we got in ME3, he/she should retire from gamedev forever.
If any CEO/Producer approves such ending, he/she should retire from gamedev forever.

We should make the names of people who lied on purpose (yes, thats the case with ME3 here) be remebered in gaming community. As an example of failure.

And I think that the longer they wait the bigger the damage will get. In the end people will stop writing, but they will never forget. When their next product hits this silent wall of indifference, it will be probably too late to fix anything.

Modifié par Evanz, 19 mars 2012 - 10:25 .

[Zalitara]

I'll pay $10 for DLC if that's what they give us no problem at all. Sorry guys, but I just don't care about the "precedent" it sets that I keep hearing so much about.

[JayneD]

Ozzyfan223 wrote...

whether free or not, I will buy it. I can't let 10 dollars get in the way of saving Mass Effect for me.

thats why I say people here should be satisfied with post-ending dlc, but not be happy about it.

This.

[Captain Shakespeare]

Agreed. I'd object to it morally, but I wouldn't allow petty morality to ruin a story that was so excellent.

[Lugaidster]

HaesoME3 wrote...

Lugaidster wrote...

Vasparian wrote...

Grumpy-Mcfart wrote...

granyte wrote...

The ending need to be fixed for free just look at the amount of plot holes the actual ending created.
these plot holes need to be fixed for free now if they wanna add some dlc content after the plot holes have been fixed fine for them.

but we need to stop setteling for crap if we bow down and buy a DLC only to fix what they broke we are basicaly saying it's alright put out crap and then have me pay so you fix what you did wrong.

given the resources that would go into fixing the ending. it is unreasonable to expect them to fix it and ask nothing in return

It was unreasonable for them to end the game the way they did.

There's no objective way to demonstrate this claim. Given that, it is unreasonable to demand something for free when there's no proof of the harm. Besides, I'd rather have a quality ending than a free one, and no, you can't have both because there's no incentive for quality without the money. I'm not saying you have to accept it, but there's no reason to demand that everyone should refuse it.

The only thing that's reasonable here is they can expect me to never buy another EA product if they charge for a fixed ending or leave it as is. I won't demand or expect anything, but they'll alienate me forever if they try and make us pay for their own mistakes.

I won't support unethical business practices like that, I'd rather ME ends the way it did than encourage them to treat their consumers like this. This isn't about demanding anything, this is about what we as consumers deserve, we feel we didn't get what we deserved for $60 - they can either agree and broker for good will and future sales, or disagree and I won't ever do business with them again and advise anyone who listens to do the same.

In that sense, they already alienated you by giving you the endings they thought should go into the game. They can't catter to every single angry fan out there. I'm sorry, but they won't. They'll save face the best way possible with as little losses as possible. 

I respect your stance though, but demanding (what the OP does) that everyone reacts like this is unreasonable. Just as charging for fixing a "bad" product can establish a precedent, caving to demands on unsatisfying products can also establish a bad precedent. Imagine going to the movie theatres and watching a bad movie then demanding your money back, no one would make movies, who'd go through the risk of doing something unconventional? No one would, because no one would take the risk of losing that much money. Some things are just like this because there's no better alternative. That's usually true with entertainment. It has to be trully and irrefutably bad for people to have a point, that hasn't been established with ME3.

The best you can do within your means is take back your copy and demand your money back, that's how capitalism works usually (Though I'm in Origin, so I'm a little screwed right now). I'll stand here demanding a better ending, but I will not be unreasonable.

Modifié par Lugaidster, 19 mars 2012 - 10:28 .

[Hibernating]

Nope, they gave us an ending. It wasnt a great one and had a lot of unanswered questions but it was an ending none the less. If I had gone up on the heaven elevator and I had gotten a "pay for the end!" menu I would agree that a free one was required but since we got one.... just no.
Bioware created the Mass Effect universe, they didnt inherit it like the starwars one and that allows them to do whatever they like. In the end, space bunnies could have popped out of the cruicable and eaten the reapers and that would be the ending that you would have to live with.

What the community is saying is that they would enjoy a different ending, and would be willing to pay for it. That is a whole different kettle of fish, where the consumers ask for a product from a company.

Modifié par Hibernating, 19 mars 2012 - 10:27 .

[garf]

granyte wrote...

The ending need to be fixed for free just look at the amount of plot holes the actual ending created.
these plot holes need to be fixed for free now if they wanna add some dlc content after the plot holes have been fixed fine for them.

but we need to stop setteling for crap if we bow down and buy a DLC only to fix what they broke we are basicaly saying it's alright put out crap and then have me pay so you fix what you did wrong.

Right now we aren't even talking to them. I'm not removing anything from the table until they bother to show up in the conference room. And I'm certainly unwilling to allow them to divide us on this issue.  Perhaps they will offer multiple fixes. Perhaps they will only offer a 'simple' free one. Perhaps they will see we are divided and chortle 'EXCCELLANT" just like mister Burns.

Can we agree at least that they are not getting any support until they show us what they plan to do to fix the problem?

No Closure
No Sense
No Relays
No Choice....

No Support.

If we stay together and stay on message. They will HAVE to deal. WHEN that happens we can talk about how much they are prepared to add vs. how much it might cost.

Does that sound like a position we can agree on? Or would you rather Bioware divide us and give us... Nothing?

[Tregon]

jdgjordan wrote...

OK dude now your just being stubborn You cant demand something and then expect nothing in return that's just being greedy and stupid. yes we were ripped off by the ending but if we want something better we have to make an agreement with them otherwise we seem like the big greedy corp. Just remember the only way we win is if both party's get something in return that way neither side will half ass it got it good.

I expect something worth the money I paid. It is bloody obvious that ME3 does NOT fulfill that bargain.
Time to show EA and Bioware that we are not lambs for slaughter who will shovel in money in return for fixing crap they have made. They give us what we paid for, then we might give them more money.

It is not money which is the issue, it is that I will not tolerate being treated as a bloody milking cow who is demande prime money for crap product and then MORE money in exchange for improving it into decent shape.

If we go down that road, next we receive game which has no ending at all an you have to buy it!

ME4. 60 dollars buys you: Starting screen, character creation and introductionary mission. 
Rest of the game will be 10 bucks per DLC, of which there shall be 20.

[GothamLord]

RinuCZ wrote...

Production costs money. If it is going to have some quality, this is a truth twice. I wish to end the ME trilogy in satisfactory way and I am willing to pay for the effort. Saying something like that months ago would sound crazy to me but the situation is what is it now.

GothamLord wrote...
BioWare KickStarter Program. for New Ending DLC. They can set an realistic production cost for programing, rehiring VAs, etc. 

Sort of good idea. Although, by donating Double Fine I mainly expressed my support of the idea, here I wouldn't like to "pre-order" to get screwed again. I instantly went for ME3 CE after avoiding hard to read any preview/spoiler/etc. It was a wise thing to do to increase the experience but the finale made me cautiously wait and see.  Under different circumstances, I'd be all for that.

Yeah its a pre-order again situation.  I'm more willing to pre-order something for $5 and thats all it costs me rather than the $60+ for a standard game.   I'm in make or break mode right now with BioWare/EA.  I'm willing to still give out money for things to get corrected.  If I get the door slammed in my face though I'm sure the other evil Activision or someone else will want my money.   I only buy maybe 6 video games a year on average.  I can certainly use that money for something else like comics or DVDs if I'm not bothering with EA products anymore. 

[Lancane]

I don't expect Bioware to create any of their DLC's for free, let alone one that changes the ending. If they decided to do so, then so be it, I would be thankful...but I would be just as thankful for them simply making it and would have no qualms paying for it whatsoever.

We're asking Bioware to meet us in the middle and to compromise, which is likely to get us what we want far more then demanding free content. If all of us in the 'Hold the Line' movement said we would gladly pay for a new ending DLC, they would be far more willing to do just that - in fact if we'd have written them a petition with names stating we were willing to pay and asked this of them in a civil manner it's quite possible the task would already be underway. However, with the uncivil actions some of our number have undertaken and atop that outright demanding for free downloadable content it makes it much harder to win them to our side because of the money that would be lost in them developing what we're asking of them, even if it was already developed and waiting to be announced prior to this fallout - we've no right to demand anything for free.

[SamFlagg]

The choice on the table becomes:

So you want the ending fixed, do you want it done well with paid DLC or done poorly with free DLC.

I'd prefer it done well with paid DLC.  The goal has always been fix the endings.  There's a higher debate to be held as to marketing and PR strategies lining up with what was actually delivered.  But my goal has always been to have the better endings.

[granyte]

Hibernating wrote...

Nope, they gave us an ending. It wasnt a great one and had a lot of unanswered questions but it was an ending none the less. If I had gone up on the heaven elevator and I had gotten a "pay for the end!" menu I would agree that a free one was required but since we got one.... just no.
Bioware created the Mass Effect universe, they didnt inherit it like the starwars one and that allows them to do whatever they like. In the end, space bunnies could have popped out of the cruicable and eaten the reapers and that would be the ending that you would have to live with.

What the community is saying is that they would enjoy a different ending, and would be willing to pay for it. That is a whole different kettle of fish, where the consumers ask for a product from a company.

space bunnies actualy poped in red green and blue flavour what i don't get is how so many of you can accept to be pissed on by a multi-national that made millions by exploiting it's consumer and treating them like crap

one that we know will continue to do so unless we stop it on that is going over the top with it's propositions www.youtube.com/watch

[Lugaidster]

garf wrote...

granyte wrote...

The ending need to be fixed for free just look at the amount of plot holes the actual ending created.
these plot holes need to be fixed for free now if they wanna add some dlc content after the plot holes have been fixed fine for them.

but we need to stop setteling for crap if we bow down and buy a DLC only to fix what they broke we are basicaly saying it's alright put out crap and then have me pay so you fix what you did wrong.

Right now we aren't even talking to them. I'm not removing anything from the table until they bother to show up in the conference room. And I'm certainly unwilling to allow them to divide us on this issue.  Perhaps they will offer multiple fixes. Perhaps they will only offer a 'simple' free one. Perhaps they will see we are divided and chortle 'EXCCELLANT" just like mister Burns.

Can we agree at least that they are not getting any support until they show us what they plan to do to fix the problem?

No Closure
No Sense
No Relays
No Choice....

No Support.

If we stay together and stay on message. They will HAVE to deal. WHEN that happens we can talk about how much they are prepared to add vs. how much it might cost.

Does that sound like a position we can agree on? Or would you rather Bioware divide us and give us... Nothing?

I certainly agree with that. Baby steps people, baby steps.

[GothamLord]

Tregon wrote...

ME4. 60 dollars buys you: Starting screen, character creation and introductionary mission. 
Rest of the game will be 10 bucks per DLC, of which there shall be 20.

Can I get little mini figures to transport around my save files on characters too?  I can be just like the Skylanders game. 

[Tregon]

gotthammer wrote...

*points at CD Projekt RED's upcoming Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition FREE update for the PC*

That's how it's done, Bioware.
No Free 'Fix', no buy DLC.

Yup. Guess who just took 40 euro hit in the CC to buy that game. And I have no idea when I have time to play it.

[DangerSandler]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

DLC necessary
Free preferred

^^^

[granyte]

Lugaidster wrote...

garf wrote...

granyte wrote...

The ending need to be fixed for free just look at the amount of plot holes the actual ending created.
these plot holes need to be fixed for free now if they wanna add some dlc content after the plot holes have been fixed fine for them.

but we need to stop setteling for crap if we bow down and buy a DLC only to fix what they broke we are basicaly saying it's alright put out crap and then have me pay so you fix what you did wrong.

Right now we aren't even talking to them. I'm not removing anything from the table until they bother to show up in the conference room. And I'm certainly unwilling to allow them to divide us on this issue.  Perhaps they will offer multiple fixes. Perhaps they will only offer a 'simple' free one. Perhaps they will see we are divided and chortle 'EXCCELLANT" just like mister Burns.

Can we agree at least that they are not getting any support until they show us what they plan to do to fix the problem?

No Closure
No Sense
No Relays
No Choice....

No Support.

If we stay together and stay on message. They will HAVE to deal. WHEN that happens we can talk about how much they are prepared to add vs. how much it might cost.

Does that sound like a position we can agree on? Or would you rather Bioware divide us and give us... Nothing?

I certainly agree with that. Baby steps people, baby steps.

the problem is PR is trolling us around what EA need to feel is that if they try to pull an other crap what they need to feel is that we are an angry mob that coul threated to virtualy burn the virtual castle they built to milk the outsiders


if they start to feel that doing nothing will lose them $ they will move $ is the only thing they understand as such $ is the way we need to send our mesage to them

Modifié par granyte, 19 mars 2012 - 10:35 .

[Thornquist]

Asking Bioware to make it for free is absurd.

[granyte]

Thornquist wrote...

Asking Bioware to make it for free is absurd.

enjoy paying to reload your gun www.youtube.com/watch

[milena87]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

DLC necessary
Free preferred

Agreed

[garf]

Hibernating wrote...

Nope, they gave us an ending. It wasnt a great one and had a lot of unanswered questions but it was an ending none the less. If I had gone up on the heaven elevator and I had gotten a "pay for the end!" menu I would agree that a free one was required but since we got one.... just no.
Bioware created the Mass Effect universe, they didnt inherit it like the starwars one and that allows them to do whatever they like. In the end, space bunnies could have popped out of the cruicable and eaten the reapers and that would be the ending that you would have to live with.

What the community is saying is that they would enjoy a different ending, and would be willing to pay for it. That is a whole different kettle of fish, where the consumers ask for a product from a company.

Can we agree that how much we pay and how much we get for what we pay is something that can be defered until they are actually bartering with us? Would you agree that they violated their promise (implied if not "legally" contractual) to us to offer closure, answers and choice? Is the hundreds of hours people have invested across the entire franchise? the word of mouth? The support vs. Fox news and their Debbie does Star Wars crusade... Mean nothing.

Regardless of what we may or may not be 'entitled to' Would you agree that their product was beneath their usual standards and flawed?

I found that the ending offered

No Closure
No Sense
No Future
and No Choices.

In return I offer them NO MONEY and NO SILENCE until they agree to 'fix' their failure.

What the fix entrails both in size resources and cost I'm willing to table until they are actually participating.

Would that make this cause more palatable to you?

[We_Are]

I wish they'd just make a 10 buck DLC for everyone who BMC's about the ending.

I think I'm going to go start "Retake Starship Troopers/The moon is a harsh mistress/Dark Tower/The Demolished man"

...BRB.

[Lugaidster]

Tregon wrote...

It is not money which is the issue, it is that I will not tolerate being treated as a bloody milking cow who is demande prime money for crap product and then MORE money in exchange for improving it into decent shape.

 

That ship sailed the moment DLC became an attractive business model.

Tregon wrote... 

If we go down that road, next we receive game which has no ending at all an you have to buy it! 

 

That's a whole different beast. People here that argue in favor of paid DLC actually do because the game had an ending. Not only that, it had an ending that a lot of people actually enjoyed (Whether they are the majority or not, is a different issue). If this game was universally acclaimed as incomplete or broken then yeah, they sure as hell have to provide either a free fix or a money return. That hasn't been established with ME3. So I'm sorry, you can demand it if you want, but it doesn't make it a reasonable demand.

[Hibernating]

granyte wrote...

space bunnies actualy poped in red green and blue flavour what i don't get is how so many of you can accept to be pissed on by a multi-national that made millions by exploiting it's consumer and treating them like crap

one that we know will continue to do so unless we stop it on that is going over the top with it's propositions www.youtube.com/watch

Yeah, once again wrong. I loved ME3, best game in the series by far and favourite game of all time as long as I ignore the end. I paid $109 for the CE, which I would have been able to see 6 movies with, or buy a chair. Instead I got a 35 hour experience which made me laugh, made me cry and made me strengthen a attachment to a universe other than my own. I wouldnt want to trade that experience for any amount of money.

Your upset about the end, I get it, so was I. But bioware dont owe you anything more than they gave you, it wasnt a 5minute 2d game with no plot, it was an epic adventure and one hell of a fine game.

I fully plan on buying all content DLC, and hope that for those of us who want more closure an option is made available.

[garf]

milena87 wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

DLC necessary
Free preferred

Agreed

Agreed

Stay Strong, Stay CIVIL, Stay on Message.