227 réponses à ce sujet

[Omilophile]

Captain Shakespeare wrote...

...Because the other two show him being disintegrated in visceral detail?

Of course there are some saying he's turning into a husk...but I'm pretty sure his face is just getting seared off.

[Vergil_dgk]

nullobject wrote...

...I can't believe your small minds still refuse to face the truth of this.

Let me help you.

Let's just ignore all the evidence and hints contained throughout the game, there are plenty of threads and videos about that; let's just use simple logic to look at the situation from a writing and corporate culture perspective.

How can you actually think that the same writing team responsible for the great character interaction and mid game quests in this game could also be the team responsible for a totally broken finale? Since when have Bioware made games with that kind of extreme variation in writing quality?

Where do you get the idea that Bioware would deliberately put a stupid, infuriating, and lore-violating ending on a game from one of their most popular franchises, and seriously think it was a good idea? In fact, where do you get the idea that Bioware would be anything but ultra-careful with a best selling franchise?

We know what Bioware writers are capable of, and they've never made a game before where we get hints throughout the game of the final reveal, but when we get there it is disappointing and laughable. Why would they start doing that now?

Surely you can't beleive that a company with the talented employees that produced the story and gameplay of titles like Mass Effect 1, KOTOR, Baldurs Gate 2 and Dragon Age could seriously make this kind of mistake?

Clearly Bioware intended the Indoctrination ending all along, it is the simplest explanation. The "Final Hours" stuff is deliberately misleading, they just fed Jeff Keighley false information to help maintain the illusion. For now they are just patiently enduring enduring the bad press and potential sales losses from the ending, as they know that the wave of relief and gratitude from the fans when they make the big reveal will make it all worth it.

Lol, I hope you are right. In fact, I would love it. But I find it easier to believe that the absence of the original lead writer from the first and second games is the reason for the screw-up.

[Bowie Hawkins]

nullobject wrote...

I refer you to my reply to Axolotl

Well played.

[nullobject]

Omilophile wrote...
but I'm pretty sure his face is just getting seared off.

Think of the storytelling opportunities this will provide in the "happily-ever-after" romance conclusion of "The Truth" DLC:

Shepard and LI look into the sunset, sun glinting off Shep's polymerized carbonsteel cheekbones...

[Kanon777]

The new twitter that was imediately deleted, they stated that there was no plan atm for a new ending. This is the only evidence we need to dismiss the theory as real, the ingame evidence might be compeling but the real world evidence is overwelming...

[Scitenik]

I'm pretty sure that the indoctrination theory isn't right. It's clever, and I like it, but I really doubt that it's true.

If anything, the final nail in the coffin for me was the 'accidental' posting on the Mass Effect twitter feed and Facebook. Yeah, it was quickly taken down and we were given the same non-information statement we've been getting, but if anything, it's an indication that there's nothing waiting in the wings.

I've said this before - if Bioware really had an extended ending to the game that involved the indoctrination theory, don't you honestly think that it would have been released by now? That EA would have forced them to release it? A lot of people are bashing the hell out of this game on Amazon, metacritic, and other sites. A lot of that adds up as potential lost revenue, and I don't think Bioware and EA would still be holding back the DLC just because they're worried that someone might not have finished the game yet. That's unrealistic.

As far as the inconsistency in the writing goes, with the ending seeming so out of place, I think it's a result of being a "vision" of either one of the main writers of the series or the producer, or someone higher up, who knows? Everything up to that point was well written, smart, clever, funny, and so on. But the ending lacks a lot of that, throws new characters and concepts at us rapidly, and then ends in a very weird, dissatisfying way. Even if it was an indoctrination, I think if the writers for the rest of the game were working on the ending, that it still would have been presented better.

I think the fact that all of the endings are virtually the same also says that they either ran out of time or didn't have the resources to finish it, but went ahead with it anyway because "lots of speculation" and it was easier, or something like that, who knows.

I know there's lots of evidence for the indoctrination theories, but I think it's grasping at 'emergency induction ports'. I think people are seeing evidence where there might not be any, simply because they can't believe the ending would be the way it is, and they have to find a way to justify it.

Look at all the books that were written analyzing Harry Potter before the final book came out, trying to figure things out or explain other things, and then the books written after. People go way deep into that stuff, looking for any little hint, repeated themes, repeated words, and so on, and chances are, less than half of their predictions and theories are correct.

So I don't think the end is a result of Bioware trying to make everyone guess they've been indoctrinated, because that would be very weird of them to do. It just doesn't make sense from a business perspective. And if there WAS a real ending waiting in the works, I think something about it would have leaked by now, accidentally or otherwise, to appease the raging fanbase. Their own forums are going out of control at times with rampant rantings and people generally being pissed off most of the time, which is kind of justified given the broken promises that were fed to us in the months leading up to the game.

I still have hope that we might get some new/changed endings, or that Bioware will go ahead and use the indoctrination theory and go from there, but I don't think it was the original plan all along. There's just not enough logic behind that move to make sense.

[nullobject]

tobito113 wrote...

The new twitter that was imediately deleted, they stated that there was no plan atm for a new ending. This is the only evidence we need to dismiss the theory as real, the ingame evidence might be compeling but the real world evidence is overwelming...

I think you should re-read the OP. It is concerned entirely with real world evidence.

[Raxxman]

Man.

People on both side of the fence.

Idiots everywhere.

(well played 10/10 would read again)

[Kanon777]

 
Clearly Bioware intended the Indoctrination ending all along, it is the simplest explanation. The "Final Hours" stuff is deliberately misleading, they just fed Jeff Keighley false information to help maintain the illusion. For now they are just patiently enduring enduring the bad press and potential sales losses from the ending, as they know that the wave of relief and gratitude from the fans when they make the big reveal will make it all worth it. 

Yeah im sure EA will let bad press and lose sales just because Casey wanted to play with the fans feelings.

ME3 price is dropping, EA stocks are dropping, people are returning their games. Do you really think they will let this happen just to toy with their costumers? YOU ARE DELUSIONAL!!!!!!!

Its ok to ask Bioware to make Indoc Theory real (i want them to do it) but its clear now that THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH THE ENDINGS.

Modifié par tobito113, 19 mars 2012 - 10:10 .

[beyzend]

like someone said, it's just a theory until confirmed. Lots of speculation. I think with Occam's razor the ending is probably final. They were probably rushed. Speculations. I think EA only care about their quarterly profits and shareholders, since it seems like that's how they operate.

Of course if BW confirms anything come Tuesday then I will happily eat my words.

Modifié par beyzend, 19 mars 2012 - 10:11 .

[nullobject]

tobito113 wrote...

 
Clearly Bioware intended the Indoctrination ending all along, it is the simplest explanation. The "Final Hours" stuff is deliberately misleading, they just fed Jeff Keighley false information to help maintain the illusion. For now they are just patiently enduring enduring the bad press and potential sales losses from the ending, as they know that the wave of relief and gratitude from the fans when they make the big reveal will make it all worth it. 

Yeah im sure EA will let bad press and lose sales just because Casey wanted to play with the fans feelings.

ME3 price is dropping, EA stocks are dropping, people are returning their games. Do you really think they will let this happen just to toy with their costumers? YOU ARE DELUSIONAL!!!!!!!

Its ok to ask Bioware to make Indoc Theory real (i want them to do it) but its clear now that THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH I.

How can you be that confident? The evidence is out there, I even included citations in the OP.

[Kanon777]

nullobject wrote...

How can you be that confident? The evidence is out there, I even included citations in the OP.

Because in the real world money is the most important thing for coorporations like EA, they would never toy with us like this if they knew it would cause this backlash.

[nullobject]

beyzend wrote...

like someone said, it's just a theory until confirmed. Lots of speculation. I think with Occam's razor the ending is probably final. They were probably rushed. Speculations. I think EA only care about their quarterly profits and shareholders, since it seems like that's how they operate.

Of course if BW confirms anything come Tuesday then I will happily eat my words.

What happens on Tuesday?

[beyzend]

Never attribute malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

[beyzend]

nullobject wrote...

beyzend wrote...

like someone said, it's just a theory until confirmed. Lots of speculation. I think with Occam's razor the ending is probably final. They were probably rushed. Speculations. I think EA only care about their quarterly profits and shareholders, since it seems like that's how they operate.

Of course if BW confirms anything come Tuesday then I will happily eat my words.

What happens on Tuesday?

From what I heard that's usually the time when they do their press releases PR bull****. 

[nullobject]

tobito113 wrote...

nullobject wrote...

How can you be that confident? The evidence is out there, I even included citations in the OP.

Because in the real world money is the most important thing for coorporations like EA, they would never toy with us like this if they knew it would cause this backlash.

It pains me to be so blunt, but I think you are making it clear you didn't read the external evidence assocaited with the OP.

[Kanon777]

Biowares actions up to now show that they have no clue what to do, they are taking feedback because THEY HAD NO IDEA OF WHAT WE WANTED, look at the tweets and Casey post, they are completely lost, if indoc theory was right there would be more clues on their tweets etc.

[Scitenik]

Okay, so I clicked the links in your original post, and now I feel like an idiot for typing all that up.

Well played, sir, well played.

Take pity on me. It's 3 am where I am.

[Kanon777]

Ugh YOU TROLLL, CHECK THE LINKS GUYS HE MAKING FUN OF THE INDOC IDIOTS >.>

*hides in shame*

[Aiyie]

Silasqtx wrote...

"you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding".

IT: My theory is more realistic. They really cut the indoc. ending, but forgot to change the whole game consequently. So we have lots of hints of Indoctrination because we develop along the paths they desire.
The problem is convincing them that this indoctrination theory is pure gold and an elegant solution to the ending debacle.

im tending to go with this.

i like indoc theory, it fits well and is a brilliant concept.

problem is, with real world finances involved, i don't think it was intentional.

i think it was a case of "we were originally going to do this... but our corporate overlords forced us to release the game before finishing."

hopefully they'll really listen to the feedback from us and release dlc content to change things and incorporate it though.  it wouldn't be the first time a dev has retconned the ending to please fans (prince of persia, fallout 3)

of course, i could be wrong, it could all be part of a massive plan to put in the most ballsy and intricate meta-game twist ending ever conceived of in gaming history up to this point... but i doubt it (too risky to EA's bottom line).

[nullobject]

Aiyie wrote...

Silasqtx wrote...

"you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding".

IT: My theory is more realistic. They really cut the indoc. ending, but forgot to change the whole game consequently. So we have lots of hints of Indoctrination because we develop along the paths they desire.
The problem is convincing them that this indoctrination theory is pure gold and an elegant solution to the ending debacle.

im tending to go with this.

i like indoc theory, it fits well and is a brilliant concept.

problem is, with real world finances involved, i don't think it was intentional.

i think it was a case of "we were originally going to do this... but our corporate overlords forced us to release the game before finishing."

hopefully they'll really listen to the feedback from us and release dlc content to change things and incorporate it though.  it wouldn't be the first time a dev has retconned the ending to please fans (prince of persia, fallout 3)

of course, i could be wrong, it could all be part of a massive plan to put in the most ballsy and intricate meta-game twist ending ever conceived of in gaming history up to this point... but i doubt it (too risky to EA's bottom line).

I think both you and Silasqtx are actually overanalysing. While it may seem complex at first, after a closer look it is clear that the theory in the OP is actually the simplest and most likely to be correct.

[Aiyie]

Captain Shakespeare wrote...

Most people don't seem to realize that this whole thread is a subtle troll. Follow the links in the original post.

go with the flow.  troll thread or not, the posters are talking about something different.

[DraCZeQQ]

Well as close-minded cynic after rushed plot-hole fest called Dragon Age 2 I really have no problem believing that:

*EA uses RUSH another Bioware game
*It's super effective
*Ending's logic is defeated!

Occam's razor

[Aiyie]

nullobject wrote...

Aiyie wrote...

Silasqtx wrote...

"you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding".

IT: My theory is more realistic. They really cut the indoc. ending, but forgot to change the whole game consequently. So we have lots of hints of Indoctrination because we develop along the paths they desire.
The problem is convincing them that this indoctrination theory is pure gold and an elegant solution to the ending debacle.

im tending to go with this.

i like indoc theory, it fits well and is a brilliant concept.

problem is, with real world finances involved, i don't think it was intentional.

i think it was a case of "we were originally going to do this... but our corporate overlords forced us to release the game before finishing."

hopefully they'll really listen to the feedback from us and release dlc content to change things and incorporate it though.  it wouldn't be the first time a dev has retconned the ending to please fans (prince of persia, fallout 3)

of course, i could be wrong, it could all be part of a massive plan to put in the most ballsy and intricate meta-game twist ending ever conceived of in gaming history up to this point... but i doubt it (too risky to EA's bottom line).

I think both you and Silasqtx are actually overanalysing. While it may seem complex at first, after a closer look it is clear that the theory in the OP is actually the simplest and most likely to be correct.

you do realize the op was trolling us right?

that doesn't invalidate the theory or what the op was saying (on the face of things)... but it doesn't exactly support it either.

[Edje Edgar]

The self delusion is strong in this one.