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To all you indoctrination theory deniers...


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#151
justlogme

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nullobject wrote...

...I can't believe your small minds still refuse to face the truth of this.

Let me help you.

Let's just ignore all the evidence and hints contained throughout the game, there are plenty of threads and videos about that; let's just use simple logic to look at the situation from a writing and corporate culture perspective.

How can you actually think that the same writing team responsible for the great character interaction and mid game quests in this game could also be the team responsible for a totally broken finale? Since when have Bioware made games with that kind of extreme variation in writing quality?

Where do you get the idea that Bioware would deliberately put a stupid, infuriating, and lore-violating ending on a game from one of their most popular franchises, and seriously think it was a good idea? In fact, where do you get the idea that Bioware would be anything but ultra-careful with a best selling franchise?

We know what Bioware writers are capable of, and they've never made a game before where we get hints throughout the game of the final reveal, but when we get there it is disappointing and laughable. Why would they start doing that now?

Surely you can't beleive that a company with the talented employees that produced the story and gameplay of titles like Mass Effect 1, KOTOR, Baldurs Gate 2 and Dragon Age could seriously make this kind of mistake?

Clearly Bioware intended the Indoctrination ending all along, it is the simplest explanation. The "Final Hours" stuff is deliberately misleading, they just fed Jeff Keighley false information to help maintain the illusion. For now they are just patiently enduring enduring the bad press and potential sales losses from the ending, as they know that the wave of relief and gratitude from the fans when they make the big reveal will make it all worth it.


A) please see the ME3 final hours iphone ap that says theres no post ending DLC and that the ending is what they wanted for "lots of speculation. or at least see the threads on it here as it specifically states the indoctrination was scrapped. Selling false information this way would open them up for legal claims of fraud

B) as of this weekend they publically stated there was no DLC ending coming. After that message created a large amount of rage they then took it down and replaced it with we are listening.

C) Why do you believe Bioware would Mind**** there fanbase for a few months, face FTC investigation, lose thousands of fans possibly be prosicuted for fraud (from selling false info in the ME# final hours ap) just for a stupid DLC gimick?

E) they are lossing fans the polls show anywhere from 86% to 98% hate the endings depending on what site you go to. People are returning or destroying their game, prices are dropping many have sworn off any further bioware purchases and surely won't be back if Bioware did say"Ahah gotcha! April fools! we were just minfd****ing you heres the real endings which you will have to pay for"..

F) lastly no matter how good they are Bioware is made of people and people do stupid things at times. We have no idea if the ending was done by biowares normal writers really or out sources to another writing team. **** happens even in the best companies people **** up, simple rule of life my friend.

#152
Mcfly616

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@nullobject....

Your entire original post was exactly how I felt after the credits started rolling....I wasn't mad at all....I knew it was the twist....they always blindside you with them when you least expect it.....and then they show Shepard alive in the last scene?

Yeah I've always been under the impression that they planned this and the whole last 10 mins, Shep was unconcious. The decision you make at the end was a test....the decision still may matter in the end....but I believe it isn't reality. It was a test. Too much symmetry

I should add I have grown rather impatient as of late....starting to.get on my nerves just waiting and wondering. Starting to make me doubt

#153
justlogme

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Reptilian Rob wrote...

Nobody is getting this guys troll?

Click his links!


  Damn the troll got me, but in my defence it is 6am here

#154
MrIllusion

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nullobject wrote...

MrIllusion wrote...

nullobject wrote...

kunzite wrote...

I've read many threads about this indoctrination theory.


This one is a bit different :)


Your post goes only as far as to back up the opinion that "Bioware can be that incomptent".

Even if this is true, how does this invalidate the plot elements regarding the indoctrination theory?


My post? If someone were to approach the Indoc theory by arguing that Bioware really could be that incompetent, perhaps they would be relying on Occam's Razor - in that all the options on Gyroscopic_Trout's list are possible, and consistent with the story as presented, but some are vastly more likely than others.


Occam's Razor would suggest that Anderson missing a gaping bullet hole on his body or armor after being shot would mean that he has no collision detection activated.

#155
golyoscsapagy

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I'm all out for this tinfoil theories if it makes you feel better. However the only thing these theories miss is WHY would BW do this. I mean sure you can yelp all you want about in game hidden stuff and feel like an intellectual mastermind all these theories doesn't make the least bit of sense in the real world.

Tarnishing their reputation (if that's even true - I have my doubts hold the line guys are even a significant percentage of the userbase) doesn't worth it. People remember bad stuff for longer and no sane marketing guy (and say what you want, BW and EA certanly know their stuff with marketing) would do this. You would have to give more than you are able to profit to get back lost reputation.

So yeah, you're right, great and all that. But why would BW do it?

Another thing that I would like to know is about price drops. I'm not trolling here, I just don't know if those are used copies or not - as I still see the original price at retailers. If indeed those are used copies please do not forget that you have to buy an online pass for 1440 points to get MP working. So they are selling a less valuable product. If those are original, unused copies, than damn, I should have waited with my purchase:(

#156
MrIllusion

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kunzite wrote...

Just so I dont seem like an ingrate with
nothing but complaints, here is a link to my theory for the endings.
Yes, it doesnt full explain everything (as I think Bioware needs to
flesh out some of it on their end), but its just a possible explanation.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10212124

Whether
or not Indoc Theory is true, I still think its a better option than the
current endings as they are. Just saying it wouldnt be the only
option.


Thanks man I appreciate this.

I'll definitely read it.

#157
nullobject

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MrIllusion wrote...

Occam's Razor would suggest that Anderson missing a gaping bullet hole on his body or armor after being shot would mean that he has no collision detection activated.


...or that art assets are developed on a cost/benefit basis, with shortcuts taken where they can be gotten away with.

#158
AlexMBrennan

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@null, sorry I don't do meta gaming

#159
MrIllusion

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nullobject wrote...

MrIllusion wrote...

Occam's Razor would suggest that Anderson missing a gaping bullet hole on his body or armor after being shot would mean that he has no collision detection activated.


...or that art assets are developed on a cost/benefit basis, with shortcuts taken where they can be gotten away with.


That scene shows Shepard with that gaping bullet wound and bleeding in high detail blood splatter.

#160
lyssalu

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lmao

#161
DraCZeQQ

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Well Indoc. theory is the same level as ... Once Sheppard touches Prothean Beacon in ME1, his consciousnes was transfered in Prothean Vritual Reality that is showing him, how would his galaxy look like if Reapers would come ... since its very old VR, it has some flaws in code that might appear as plot holes ... *BAM* explained everything!

#162
Rogue Eagle

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Indoctrination theory explains a lot...

A friend sent me this link, It basically talks about how in the codex indoctrinated people see ghostly figures, how most of that end sequence DIDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE and seemed more like a dream. It would also explain why Shepard was forced to shoot Anderson.

https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

#163
ShadowLight1

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nullobject wrote...

...I can't believe your small minds still refuse to face the truth of this.

Let me help you.

Let's just ignore all the evidence and hints contained throughout the game, there are plenty of threads and videos about that; let's just use simple logic to look at the situation from a writing and corporate culture perspective.

How can you actually think that the same writing team responsible for the great character interaction and mid game quests in this game could also be the team responsible for a totally broken finale? Since when have Bioware made games with that kind of extreme variation in writing quality?

Where do you get the idea that Bioware would deliberately put a stupid, infuriating, and lore-violating ending on a game from one of their most popular franchises, and seriously think it was a good idea? In fact, where do you get the idea that Bioware would be anything but ultra-careful with a best selling franchise?

We know what Bioware writers are capable of, and they've never made a game before where we get hints throughout the game of the final reveal, but when we get there it is disappointing and laughable. Why would they start doing that now?

Surely you can't beleive that a company with the talented employees that produced the story and gameplay of titles like Mass Effect 1, KOTOR, Baldurs Gate 2 and Dragon Age could seriously make this kind of mistake?

Clearly Bioware intended the Indoctrination ending all along, it is the simplest explanation. The "Final Hours" stuff is deliberately misleading, they just fed Jeff Keighley false information to help maintain the illusion. For now they are just patiently enduring enduring the bad press and potential sales losses from the ending, as they know that the wave of relief and gratitude from the fans when they make the big reveal will make it all worth it.


Seriously, starting off a sentence with "your small minds" is a pretty dumb thing to say. If you are trying to get people to agree with you it's a psycho / Pseudo-social imperitive  that you get others on your side, not ****** them off.

I would laugh so hard if you are wrong, indoctranation is a theory.. It's not proven, nothing is proven.. That's why there has been such an uproar.. On a closing finale you don't want to speculate, or it's not a closing finale is it?

It seems the writers at Bioware missed this small yet fundamentally super-important part, that the story is not complete. Allowing specualtion is a cheap way out.

Modifié par ShadowLight1, 19 mars 2012 - 12:28 .


#164
DraCZeQQ

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Rogue Eagle wrote...

It would also explain why Shepard was forced to shoot Anderson.


This was explained in game and doesn't need indoc. theory ...

#165
RLesueur

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Posted Image

#166
Paragon Auducan

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DraCZeQQ wrote...

Rogue Eagle wrote...

It would also explain why Shepard was forced to shoot Anderson.


This was explained in game and doesn't need indoc. theory ...


Doesn't explain Shepard recieiving the wound himself, Indoc DOES.

#167
RLesueur

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Paragon Auducan wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Rogue Eagle wrote...

It would also explain why Shepard was forced to shoot Anderson.


This was explained in game and doesn't need indoc. theory ...


Doesn't explain Shepard recieiving the wound himself, Indoc DOES.


Yeah, it's not like there's any other reason for Shepard to be horribly injured that was clearly demonstrated earlier.

I mean, if Shepard had been hit by a giant death laser or something it would be obvious why he/she was wounded. Damnit Bioware, why do you have to be so cryptic?

#168
Paragon Auducan

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RLesueur wrote...

Paragon Auducan wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Rogue Eagle wrote...

It would also explain why Shepard was forced to shoot Anderson.


This was explained in game and doesn't need indoc. theory ...


Doesn't explain Shepard recieiving the wound himself, Indoc DOES.


Yeah, it's not like there's any other reason for Shepard to be horribly injured that was clearly demonstrated earlier.

I mean, if Shepard had been hit by a giant death laser or something it would be obvious why he/she was wounded. Damnit Bioware, why do you have to be so cryptic?


He freaking winces and holds the wound AS SOON AS HE SHOOTS the SAME spot on Anderson.

#169
tmsolberg

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Well played, OP!
Well played indeed, Mr troll.

^_^

Modifié par tmsolberg, 19 mars 2012 - 12:35 .


#170
nullobject

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ShadowLight1 wrote...

Seriously, starting off a sentence with "your small minds" is a pretty dumb thing to say. If you are trying to get people to agree with you it's a psycho / Pseudo-social imperitive  that you get others on your side, not ****** them off.

I would laugh so hard if you are wrong, indoctranation is a theory.. It's not proven, nothing is proven.. That's why there has been such an uproar.. On a closing finale you don't want to speculate, or it's not a closing finale is it?

It seems the writers at Bioware missed this small yet fundamentally super-important part, that the story is not complete. Allowing specualtion is a cheap way out.


Perhaps I came on a bit strong with "small minds", but I do think it suits the post when considered in its full context.

#171
Rogue Eagle

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that's only one example, the ending is still garbage/ inconsistent, they're just lucky they included multiplayer.

#172
DraCZeQQ

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Paragon Auducan wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

Rogue Eagle wrote...

It would also explain why Shepard was forced to shoot Anderson.


This was explained in game and doesn't need indoc. theory ...


Doesn't explain Shepard recieiving the wound himself, Indoc DOES.


he didnt recieve that wound, he was wounded all along from the Harbinger beam in the knee earlier ... and Bioware just reused animation ...

#173
Captain Shakespeare

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Everyone is grasping at straws. Pretty much any given information can be taken either way at this point.

#174
Trephinate

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personally i think the only logical - most rational - explanation is that the mass effect series is a prequel to dragon age: that once the reapers were destroyed, the remaining races returned to earth to form the primordial elements of what then become what we see in origins etc. while many fail to acclimatise to the new atmosphere, leaked element zero transforms the resilient survivors and fuels mages with biotic power. for example, the volus, protected by their suits, become the dwarves insulated from biotic powers; elcor undergo metamorphosis from the weakened gravity and become ogres; the turians become the militant qunari; and the quarians, finally freed from their suits, become the mabari. the krogan, however, ditch their armoured plating move into the forrests where the game is a more thrilling hunt, and become the lithe elves. not quite destroyed reaper devices shower the earth from orbit, and without the guidance and benevolent leadership of the starchild, the resulting indoctrinated - or 'darkspawn' as the post-diluvian cultures refer to them - continue an aimless war of annihilation against all organics.

#175
RLesueur

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Paragon Auducan wrote...

He freaking winces and holds the wound AS SOON AS HE SHOOTS the SAME spot on Anderson.


No he doesn't, lol.

Anderson does.



From  2:45 minutes. He doesn't even flinch.

Modifié par RLesueur, 19 mars 2012 - 12:41 .