Aller au contenu

Photo

"Key enemy personnel" is just plain silly.


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
117 réponses à ce sujet

#76
JohnDoe

JohnDoe
  • Members
  • 923 messages

SinerAthin wrote...

Autochthon wrote...


We're playing as a paramilitary group IIRC. Basically anyway.

I also assume canonically there's more than 4 people being placed at key locations, just at multiple points of insertion. I was just pointing out that small squad missions aren't non-existant, they tend to be black ops instead of taking out massive numbers of opponents but they still exist.


True, but even if we're playing 4 fully equipped stormtroopers, taking on two Atlases gets kind'a silly.

Just look at its guns. If weapons had behaved realistically he could've just shredded light cover and blown up any house we ran into xD


ahem... what if you had to SABOTAGE (destroy) them?
imagine shepard having to fight them because you were dumb for NOT destrying them in MP?

#77
Yigorse

Yigorse
  • Members
  • 993 messages
This is your complaint? Really?

#78
Sabbatine

Sabbatine
  • Members
  • 1 694 messages

Ledgend1221 wrote...

BraveLToaster wrote...

Why do they leave intel on fleet movements absolutely everywhere?


"We left our intel on fleet movements in an enemy base, the bad guys will never look there! Oh no they looked there what should we do!?"
"We shall send 4 of our best people who can actually kill bad guys to recover the fleet intel we have spread across the galaxy for fun!"
"Yes, while they are there, they can kill 4 brilliant enemy commanders who happen to be lowly grunts!"
"They can also boost the signal with 4 incoveniant signal boosters that are right in the middle of the enemy spawns!"
"Brilliant! But what do we need the signal for?"
"To tell them to boost the signal!"
"Genius and it will only cost the lives of 4 soldiers who can actually do something."


It's kind of funny because this illustrates how confusing the multiplayer is if you actually try to interpret it within the story.  Based on the single player narrative, we'd be defending half of those locations to keep Cerberus from retaking them.

#79
Guest_Imperium Alpha_*

Guest_Imperium Alpha_*
  • Guests
OP your logic is invalid. Marauder Shield was a key enemy personnel.

#80
robarcool

robarcool
  • Members
  • 6 608 messages
MP objectives are what they are. Don't try to derive deeper meanings or you will go crazy. Just finish them. The funny part is that you are supposed to lock down the area and weaken the enemy. But the enemies become stronger in the later levels and the biggest wave is in the end. So much for locking down.

#81
Jitawa

Jitawa
  • Members
  • 285 messages
I found this mildly vexing. Some sort of shifting narrative or explanations based on enemy type or map location would've been good. It's the same alliance guy giving the voice-over regardless, right? Recording a large set of them wouldn't have been that big of a deal.

The "Key personnel" one is the most silly one in my opinion. Mostly because all three factions are of the "mindless" variety. Reapers are all basically husks/zombie-type creatures that are mindless and unleashed on a populace. Geth are just programs in platforms, we're destroying local terminals basically - there are no personnel, their data is uploaded on death.

Cerberus could almost be like a set of human forces (leaders, etc.), but we know from the game that isn't the case. They're indoctrinated "almossocial.bioware.comnds gone and substantial reaper tech mods (similar to husks). You get text in game about their whole "OBEY. SUICIDE IF CAUGHT." and so on. The indoctrination and mods makes them a fighting force, but that's pretty much all you can say for them. There are no valuable personnel, their mind is already gone.

This extends to the single player in some ways. There's only... three enemies maybe that have any intelligence (in-universe), and two of them are heavily indoctrinated (the other isn't a person).

Since Shepard takes care of them, there are no key personnel to be taken care of. Every force that is a threat in the game is ultimately mindless in the sense of possessing any "individual" intelligence. It's different from the fights in ME2 where there might be a merc-boss with higher hp and armor that's a vanguard.

High value target can make sense.. on the surface at least. An Atlas probably costs a fair amount, right? But as far as the in-game universe is concerned, it may not. Cerberus appears to have basically unlimited assets in terms of both people (they're capable of invading home-planets of citadel species, the citadel, and so on.... but not just capable of doing that, they're capable of doing that on MANY MANY MANY fronts at the same time and winning somehow. Despite having idiot-soldiers) and money (regardless of what you think of Reaper tech, it doesn't magically generate money, but they seem to have the income to make cerberus bases, jets, mechs, guns (of many types), armor, and so on all by themselves. And fund their massive offensives everywhere against multiple worlds with the economies of entire species).

So... yeah. Maybe they could've used difference wording.

#82
Sabbatine

Sabbatine
  • Members
  • 1 694 messages

Jitawa wrote...

The "Key personnel" one is the most silly one in my opinion. Mostly because all three factions are of the "mindless" variety. Reapers are all basically husks/zombie-type creatures that are mindless and unleashed on a populace. Geth are just programs in platforms, we're destroying local terminals basically - there are no personnel, their data is uploaded on death.


The reapers communicate to the husks somehow.  Perhaps this is through key husks designed to be signal repeaters of sorts.

For the Geth, we are destroying local terminals, but that is having the net result of weakening the Geth presence and diminishing their assets on the field.  The data might get uploaded meaning they lose little in the meta sense, but in the micro sense of that specific battle the destroyed geth are no longer present physically or as software contributing to the over all success of the battle.

Jitawa wrote... 

Cerberus could almost be like a set of human forces (leaders, etc.), but we know from the game that isn't the case. They're indoctrinated "almossocial.bioware.comnds gone and substantial reaper tech mods (similar to husks). You get text in game about their whole "OBEY. SUICIDE IF CAUGHT." and so on. The indoctrination and mods makes them a fighting force, but that's pretty much all you can say for them. There are no valuable personnel, their mind is already gone.


The game only says that unwilling people can be modified to provide Cerberus with shock troops, not that all their troops are modified this way.  There is the one conversation you can overhear between a Sergeant and Private who is seeking a transfer because she does not want to risk fighting against her brother who willingly joined Cerberus.

Valuable personnel almost certainly exist.  A mindless shock trooper won't be a battlefield tactician.  At most one could assume that all or most of the assault troops are mindless but the specialists probably are not.

Jitawa wrote... 

This extends to the single player in some ways. There's only... three enemies maybe that have any intelligence (in-universe), and two of them are heavily indoctrinated (the other isn't a person).

Since Shepard takes care of them, there are no key personnel to be taken care of. Every force that is a threat in the game is ultimately mindless in the sense of possessing any "individual" intelligence. It's different from the fights in ME2 where there might be a merc-boss with higher hp and armor that's a vanguard.


That's a pretty juvenile way to look at it.  If that were the case then it is also true for the alliance forces because they are repeatedly, if not constantly, defeated by those so called mindless enemies.  There are definate command structures in place for cerberus and geth.  The reapers remain a mystery because we still do not know how exactly orders are communicated to each individual husk.

Jitawa wrote... 

High value target can make sense.. on the surface at least. An Atlas probably costs a fair amount, right? But as far as the in-game universe is concerned, it may not. Cerberus appears to have basically unlimited assets in terms of both people (they're capable of invading home-planets of citadel species, the citadel, and so on.... but not just capable of doing that, they're capable of doing that on MANY MANY MANY fronts at the same time and winning somehow. Despite having idiot-soldiers) and money (regardless of what you think of Reaper tech, it doesn't magically generate money, but they seem to have the income to make cerberus bases, jets, mechs, guns (of many types), armor, and so on all by themselves. And fund their massive offensives everywhere against multiple worlds with the economies of entire species).


Material cost means nothing.  We are looking at the literal end of existence for the advanced races, they aren't too concerned about punching Cerberus in the proverbial wallet.  High value targets would be determined by their threat to ongoing operations.  Perhaps they have capable squad leaders or extremely dangerous assassins... or one of the Cerberus officers is known for being particularly sadistic towards an enslaved population and eliminating him would boost morale.  The soldiers on the ground don't need to hear about the target's life story when they're told to go eliminate him/her/it.

Could this have been handled better?  Sure.  Is this a fairly stupid thing to complain about?  Yep.

#83
Spellbound83

Spellbound83
  • Members
  • 45 messages

SushiSquid wrote...

"We're dropping you into a hot zone. No time for areal bombardment"

"Dude, it's the inside of a reactor."



Multiplayer doesn't always make sense.

For real. Aerial bombardment is always faster than putting boots on the ground.

#84
NikkoJT

NikkoJT
  • Members
  • 1 303 messages

Autochthon wrote...

Grizzy wrote...

Autochthon wrote...

Big Bads really need to a handbook so they stop making stupid mistakes.


Wasnt there something like this for evil overlords?

Yup there is.
Note to self: Disseminate said handbook to all game designers so their big bads stop being Chaotic Stupud and start being Evil again.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilOverlordList]SHAZAM![/url]
I'm sorry, were you using those next two hours? ^_^

#85
Maniacalfury

Maniacalfury
  • Members
  • 19 messages
It's not so much silly as it is imperfect programming.
"Kill ranking personnel" It makes your target what the highest ranking unit that can be spawned - but there is a limit to how many of a type of unit there can be in any of the 1-10 waves. Silver wave 10 reaper ranking targets, there are only like 4 banshees max that can spawn, they tend to get nuked with missiles quick (as they spawn in pairs) and then it's on to brutes, and so on and so forth.
Once all the big bads are out of the way, if it goes to spawn a target, and there are already too many banshees/brutes/marauders spawned - it spawns the target as a cannibal for example.
I don't think it's intended to be 'silly,' it just ended up that way.

#86
fafnir magnus

fafnir magnus
  • Members
  • 575 messages
The extra health and shields on the C&C units is why they're key. you prolly don't notice since you must be playing on bronze to get a husk or cannibal as your target, on gold you'll be rolling with 2 or 3 primes/banshees/atlases. hell, I've gotten 4 straight primes on the wave 10 objective.

#87
ATWFA

ATWFA
  • Members
  • 95 messages

Maruset wrote...

Because the marked units are filled with gift certificates to Papa Johns and your boss guy loves him some pizza. Seems the logical conclusions, thought everyone else had figured this out.

/thread

#88
Creston918

Creston918
  • Members
  • 1 580 messages

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Who would send 4 men against an army of atlases/banshees/geth for vital intel?


The Quarian admirals in ME2?

#89
Creston918

Creston918
  • Members
  • 1 580 messages
Irk, double post. :(

Modifié par Creston918, 20 mars 2012 - 10:52 .


#90
Guest_Imperium Alpha_*

Guest_Imperium Alpha_*
  • Guests

Spellbound83 wrote...

SushiSquid wrote...

"We're dropping you into a hot zone. No time for areal bombardment"

"Dude, it's the inside of a reactor."



Multiplayer doesn't always make sense.

For real. Aerial bombardment is always faster than putting boots on the ground.

Saddly every frigate/cruiser/dread'/carrier is really really busy building the Catalyst. But they have a bunch of UT-97 Kodiak to spare. B)

#91
zerocavities

zerocavities
  • Members
  • 107 messages
oh i dont know if I will be happy or sad when i hear this announcement, "Weve got lucky, A key personel..." how did i get lucky when the target is to kill a banshee....

#92
Jitawa

Jitawa
  • Members
  • 285 messages

Sabbatine wrote...
The reapers communicate to the husks somehow.  Perhaps this is through key husks designed to be signal repeaters of sorts.

For the Geth, we are destroying local terminals, but that is having the net result of weakening the Geth presence and diminishing their assets on the field.  The data might get uploaded meaning they lose little in the msocial.bioware.comcro sense of that specific battle the destroyed geth are no longer present physically or as software contributing to the over all success of the battle.

The game only says that unwilling people can be modified to provide Cerberus with shock troops, not that all their troops are modified this way.  There is the one conversation you can overhear between a Sergeant and Private who is seeking a transfer because she does not want to risk fighting against her brother who willingly joined Cerberus.

Valuable personnel almost certainly exist.  A mindless shock trooper won't be a battlefield tactician.  At most one could assume that all or most of the assault troops are mindless but the specialists probably are not.

That's a pretty juvenile way to look at it.  If that were the case then it is also true for the alliance forces because they are repeatedly, if not constantly, defeated by those so called mindless enemies.  There are definate command structures in place for cerberus and geth.  The reapers remain a mystery because we still do not know how exactly orders are communicated to each individual husk.

Material cost means nothing.  We are looking at the literal end of existence for the advanced races, they aren't too concerned about punching Cerberus in the proverbial wallet.  High value targets would be determined by their threat to ongoing operations.  Perhaps they have capable squad leaders or extremely dangerous assassins... or one of the Cerberus officers is known for being particularly sadistic towards an enslaved population and eliminating him would boost morale.  The soldiers on the ground don't need to hear about the target's life story when they're told to go eliminate him/her/it.

Could this have been handled better?  Sure.  Is this a fairly stupid thing to complain about?  Yep.


That some of them might be transponders is complete speculation, even if that were the case, it gives little context for giving you a time limit on foes you're already attacking, and the opponents wouldn't be "key" outside the current conflict with you.

With respect to the Geth, killing any of them diminishes them in terms of presence and actual hardware, that is true.  However that goes to the point of the post, "key" personnel is meaningless in that context - killing ANY of the Geth is helpful in that respect.  There's no such thing as a trooper that's more valued.

With respect to Cerberus, the game says both.  The "processing" center turns average folk into shock troops by way of indoctrination and modification.  However, you can also read computer logs on a new recruit (not forced) who remarks on the silliness of the "suicide on command" and so on, but says they ALL have to report in for "integration".  In that instance you can see the same willing recruit change to flat responsed "OBEY" etc. through indoctrination.  Elsewhere it's implied they're all indoctrinated.  It's also implied they all suicide when captured (to the extent of detonating explosives in their faces even).

You get told directly of their attempts to capture biotics, and indirectly of how they use indoctrination/modification to make them into phantoms.  You might be able to make a case for some members of cerberus having more free-will than others (I'd imagine their scientists and certainly some officers somewhere have to be), but we only SEE that in three persons (indoctrination also being present there, but not cripplingly so).  There is no tactician/commander or any such troop faced in game/battle.  We only face manufactured shock troops.

Yes, Alliance soldiers are constantly defeated by these mindless enemies.  However, this isn't typically a result of a tactical master stroke.  It's noted that they use sleeper-agents/bribes/indoctrinated people to get access to many of their targets, and then just overrun them with overwhelming force/firepower instead of some particular cleverness.  Cerebrus doesn't seem to put officers/commanders into combat, they ship their pre-manufactured troops that are made from normal people/etc. into certain archetypes and have them follow a set of commands.  I'm thinking there's some actual "real" cerberus officer that holds the keys to the brainwashed soldiers for given operations, but they're probably just handling the operation by radio remotely.  There's not one instance in the game where you get an impression of "leadership" in the field outside of the explicit three examples.

#93
Impulse and Compulse

Impulse and Compulse
  • Members
  • 1 179 messages
I dunno, that Cannibal seems pretty high-ranking.

#94
Makatak

Makatak
  • Members
  • 381 messages

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Who would send 4 men against an army of atlases/banshees/geth for vital intel?

If fantasy and science fiction has taught me anything, it's that 4 men + the girl can conquer any army.


But, ... where's the fifth in our teams? PLOTHOLE!!! Image IPB


They became...

...Marauder Shields.

#95
RealKobeBean

RealKobeBean
  • Members
  • 2 190 messages

I understand, that when facing Cerberus there is a minimal chance, that someone 'important' will be on battlefield, however, the SP campaign contradicts it.

But key enemy Geth Platforms and key enemy husks (including key enemy Cannibals) is just stupid (and against the established lore, hurr durr, the geth being basically a swarm mind with everybody equal and husks being mindless shells). I know that MP is just for some dumb shoot'em up fun,  but it would be nice to hear some plausible reasons for killing the marked targets.

Key enemy personell and Husks are just apples and oranges. Good point, Polish Phoenix. Why would a mindless Husks be of that great importance, let alone be calling the shots admits Banshees, Marauders, and Brutes? This baffles me, too, mate.

#96
Terminator Force

Terminator Force
  • Members
  • 6 079 messages

Because we are all nerds and demand answers.



#97
RealKobeBean

RealKobeBean
  • Members
  • 2 190 messages
I love this thread :P
  • Terminator Force aime ceci

#98
UKStory135

UKStory135
  • Members
  • 3 954 messages

It does fit one of the main themes of gaming though.  1. Kill the bad guys (targets) 2. Hide from the Bad Guys (devices) 3. Hold the line from the Bad Guys (Hacking) and Run Through the Bad Guys (Escort) Though key enemy personnel sounds silly, what else do you call it? 



#99
RealKobeBean

RealKobeBean
  • Members
  • 2 190 messages

It does fit one of the main themes of gaming though.  1. Kill the bad guys (targets) 2. Hide from the Bad Guys (devices) 3. Hold the line from the Bad Guys (Hacking) and Run Through the Bad Guys (Escort) Though key enemy personnel sounds silly, what else do you call it?

Contracts, as in you're some sort of bounty hunter.
  • UKStory135 aime ceci

#100
Jeremiah12LGeek

Jeremiah12LGeek
  • Members
  • 23 889 messages

Key enemy personell and Husks are just apples and oranges. Good point, Polish Phoenix. Why would a mindless Husks be of that great importance, let alone be calling the shots admits Banshees, Marauders, and Brutes? This baffles me, too, mate.

 

This may well be proof that at least some of multiplayer occurs under Indoctrination Theory.

 

Namely the Bronze/Silver parts (where husks can actually be "targets of great importance.")

 

Or, perhaps, the husks are secretly carrying high-value intelligence stuffed in... places.


  • Learn To Love Yourself aime ceci