49 réponses à ce sujet

[CptData]

Click here for the poll.

Question says all. I know Miranda, Jack, Jacob and Thane got an even shorter stick than the VS, but to get meaningful results, I restricted the poll to just the VS.

A lot of fans of Kaidan and Ashley are disappointed by the amount of content for their beloved characters in the game. BW promised us the VS would have a pivotal role in the game, but that role is restricted to exactly ONE moment: the Udina Coup. It's the moment where the player can decide to convince - or kill the VS. Besides that, the role of the VS is reduced to the (beautifully crafted) romance.

Although I understand why the VS has no bigger influence on the events in the second half of the game, I don't understand why s/he is sidelined to the observatory room while the rest of the crew is interacting with each other (most notably: Garrus and Vega). Garrus and Tali can get killed in ME2, Tali also can get killed in ME3, she still has more banter & interaction with the crew than the VS.
So it's not really an excuse for BW to sideline the VS.

With my poll I just want to know what you think: does the VS need an extension? Do we need to see more banter, maybe a dedicated mission that adds some more significance to the VS than "s/he's still in the team"? Do Ash & Kaidan need more banter in case they're romanced? Should Ash call Shepard "Skipper" again?
Lots of questions.

Although the romances are done perfectly, the illusion of being in a live relationship with the VS gets damaged by the lack of generic content. Like some banter.

Modifié par CptData, 19 mars 2012 - 09:53 .

[Shelondias]

Voting is too impersonal so I'm gonna take the long route and be a good neighbor.
"No."

[Knightly_BW]

If they think VS is that pivotal part of ME3 there shouldn't be an option to send them away... like Liara, Sexbot or Vega. That mutated ape was crying to get back Earth... Shep says he can take a ride back to Earth from Citadel but he is still there in Normandy...

It is irrevelant if I wish a DLC for Kaidan or not, a DLC for VS is no go, in my opinion.

[HelenMac321]

I think when so many relationships were glossed over in the game, where so many people were frustrated when relationships they've cultivated from ME2 were sidelined, I really think it would be a waste of resources to extend the interaction with the VS.

From what I've seen (did the Garrus romance, watched the Ashley side of the romance on youtube) Kaidan and Ash get one of the most detailed relationships with Shepard, with many 'Priority' missions even hinging on certain moments with them (Mars, The Citadel).

I just think if these relationships were expanded then Bioware would garner even more negative reaction from fans that feel resources have been channelled into wrong areas. They should give the ME2 relationships proper conclusions with proper love scenes.

[CptData]

@Helen:
As I said, I'm just created the poll for the VS. Of course, the romance arcs for Miranda & Jack are pretty much lacking everything besides a brief moment (which also is almost identically to the non-romanced situation). Thane dies and Jacob moved on, so fem!Sheps get an even shorter end of the stick (basically, there's only Kaidan left for a hetero romance!)

So in short: I also would support a DLC that greatly improves ALL sidelined / reduced romances as well. If it comes with extra content for all romances, I'm fine, no need for a dedicated VS DLC.


@Asperius:
BW declared the VS would have a pivotal role in the game. In the end, the role of Ash/Kaidan is reduced to ONE pivotal point, and that's Udina's coup. Mars? Not really - it's Liara's mission, the VS only has one argument (when they discover the brutal truth of Cerberus' troopers), Besides that? It seems BW had no real idea what to do with the VS. They seem to be only there to deliver drama (Mars, Hospital, Udina's coup), but once you're beyond that point, the VS doesn't contribute anything to the story.

I don't ask for "more impact" on the story, but for more interaction (better, more interesting banter) between romance scenes and completing the romances with cut scenes. If BW plans to give us a dedicated romance DLC (there are rumors out there - it's going to be a mission with Shepard and the LI), they also could add more banter too.

In that case, there's no need for a dedicated VS-DLC.

[Knightly_BW]

CptData wrote...

@Asperius:
BW declared the VS would have a pivotal role in the game. In the end, the role of Ash/Kaidan is reduced to ONE pivotal point, and that's Udina's coup. Mars? Not really - it's Liara's mission, the VS only has one argument (when they discover the brutal truth of Cerberus' troopers), Besides that? It seems BW had no real idea what to do with the VS. They seem to be only there to deliver drama (Mars, Hospital, Udina's coup), but once you're beyond that point, the VS doesn't contribute anything to the story.

I don't ask for "more impact" on the story, but for more interaction (better, more interesting banter) between romance scenes and completing the romances with cut scenes. If BW plans to give us a dedicated romance DLC (there are rumors out there - it's going to be a mission with Shepard and the LI), they also could add more banter too.

In that case, there's no need for a dedicated VS-DLC.

My intention was telling Bioware doesn't give a damn about VS over other team mates. You stayed loyal to your VS? Good, you will have a sex scene with them... and one or two special dialogue. Liara is there to share Shepard's worries or back him/her up when he/she is about to get crushed under pressure. Kaidan just stays there and talk about his students, family, Cerberus or missions you just completed.

Combine that with horribly turned-into-gay Kaidan I doubt they have any special ideas about VS, at least for Kaidan. If your Shepard was like brother's in ME1 and tried to act good to him during Mars, imagine his surprise when he visits Kaidan in hospital with a present. While talking about this and that suddenly Kaidan says "Are you flirting with me Commander?"   Don't worry you will be shocked more when you decide to talk with him after Rescue Cerberus Scientists mission. This time your Shepard will ask if Kaidan is flirting with him. Voila... your Shepared just been gayed.   You have to suffer this trauma "till the date scene. (Please keep in mind I am saying this as a gay player who likes Kaidan romance).

Plus that option to send away VS does nothing but killing for anything more related to those two mainstay characters.

Can you turn down Garrus? Don't think so. Can you turn down Tali? Well there was an option which I didn't try but knowing Bioware she will stick with you no matter what. Only ones you can kick away are VS.

[CptData]

Asperius wrote...

My intention was telling Bioware doesn't give a damn about VS over other team mates. You stayed loyal to your VS? Good, you will have a sex scene with them... and one or two special dialogue. Liara is there to share Shepard's worries or back him/her up when he/she is about to get crushed under pressure. Kaidan just stays there and talk about his students, family, Cerberus or missions you just completed.

Pretty much this. The VS doesn't really react on the struggles Shepard has to go through, which is sad enough to me. That's what I mean - besides the romance scenes, there's no real content for the VS while Vega, Garrus and Liara got plenty of content, even outside of their romances (except Vega, he's not available).

And the sex? Uhhm ... since you also can do the deed without being faithful in ME2 or without romancing the VS in ME1 at all, it's not much of a reward. Dunno. The more rewarding scenes were in the Hospital tbh.

Combine that with horribly turned-into-gay Kaidan I doubt they have any special ideas about VS, at least for Kaidan. If your Shepard was like brother's in ME1 and tried to act good to him during Mars, imagine his surprise when he visits Kaidan in hospital with a present. While talking about this and that suddenly Kaidan says "Are you flirting with me Commander?"   Don't worry you will be shocked more when you decide to talk with him after Rescue Cerberus Scientists mission. This time your Shepard will ask if Kaidan is flirting with him. Voila... your Shepared just been gayed.   You have to suffer this trauma "till the date scene. (Please keep in mind I am saying this as a gay player who likes Kaidan romance).

Don't worry, no offense taken.
Same happens with Steve, if you're not careful. All I want is to be nice to Cortez without running into a gay relationship - my RPed Shep isn't into guys.

BW strikes it again and implies "being nice = I want to have sex with you". Somehow I'm glad R/L isn't working like that, or I would have to sleep with most of my co-workers, and only two of them are attractive women.

Plus that option to send away VS does nothing but killing for anything more related to those two mainstay characters.

Frankly, I believe the option to get rid of the VS either the violent or the non-violent way is one of the few decisions that really makes a difference. Here you can fully RP your Shepard, that's why I don't mind the Udina coup.

Can you turn down Garrus? Don't think so. Can you turn down Tali? Well there was an option which I didn't try but knowing Bioware she will stick with you no matter what. Only ones you can kick away are VS.

Pretty much. You can only get rid of Garrus by get him killed in ME2.
Tali can get killed pretty easily - by siding with the Geth. Besides that, she stays with you.

I don't mind Garrus or Tali, they're both great additions to the team. I just dislike the lack of content for the VS outside of the romance. Seriously, an unromanced Ashley or Kaidan - does s/he contribute anything except "being with the team"?

[Bellendaine]

Yes, yes, yes. Especially since those of us who have come to love them, didn't get to hang with them much in ME2. I'd love a DLC adventure with Kaidan.

[MissLiya]

Absolutely yes.
For ME2 letdown.
I really love Kaidan`s character, I can actually say he is one of the reasons I`m playing this game.
I would pay for it tho.

[Visii]

@Cpt Data,

At least they get to be "part of the team".

To the thread's larger question I would say, Ash and Kaidan don't NEED an extension DLC. I know several other characters who do, though...

[CptData]

Visii wrote...

@Cpt Data,

At least they get to be "part of the team".

To the thread's larger question I would say, Ash and Kaidan don't NEED an extension DLC. I know several other characters who do, though...

True. But if you don't romance Ashley or Kaidan, their only contribution to the story after "Udina Coup" is "to be part of the team". I can understand your question (regarding ME2 characters), but that's not the topic of my current poll.

It's VS centered. And compared against Garrus (who has the same chance to be dead in ME3 like Ashley or Kaidan), the VS got some poor treatment storywise.

ME2 cast with exception of Mordin got sidelined entirely.

[Aquarius]

I think that Ashley/Kaidan got enough screen time and really did have an important role in Mass Effect 3.

Ashley was the one who survived Virmire in my canon trilogy playthrough and I liked her much in Mass Effect 1 (unlike the "She's a racist and religious fanatic!" haters). In Mass Effect 2, I wanted to throw her out the airlock for not trusting my FemShep and when I started playing Mass Effect 3, I planned to kick her ass for it.

But then I somehow picked the nice choices and really wanted my FemShep to reconcile with Ashley. I was devastated and shocked when Dr. Eva smashed Ashley brutally against that shuttle and I had tears in my eyes when FemShep visited the still unconscious Ashley in hospital.

The fact that Ashley/Kaidan get hurt and end up in hospital and that you can resolve the "Horizon problem" as you see fit is more than for example Tali got (with regards to both a friendship and romance relationship). Moreover, I could really feel the close friendship between my FemShep and Ashley (again, I chose reconciliation) and that was a totally rewarding experience compared to what happened on Horizon.

As far as the Cerberus coup is concerned, I can only say that my heart skipped a beat when Ashley pointed her gun at my FemShep and that hole trust issue came up again. I was really afraid that I would've to shoot her in order to stop Udina (which can happen if you pick the wrong choices). It was an emotionally disturbing moment and I really had a bad feeling in my gut back then. I was so relieved that Ashley finally trusted my FemShep and did the right thing.

With regards to the romance I have to say that I obviously didn't romance Ashley since I play a female Shepard, but I watched the romance scenes at youtube and think that both of them (Kaidan even more so, if you ask me) got satisfying romance scenes that are second only to Liara who got the most of the script writer's attention.

So to me, both Ashley and Kaidan don't need an "Extension DLC".

Modifié par Wasserfrau, 19 mars 2012 - 02:28 .

[Stalker]

No, you had your romance. I want ME2-romance DLC.

[Knightly_BW]

I am kinda don't understand all that ME 2 squadies got the shaft thing. Before game relase yeah I could buy that but now after seeing them in the game.. I love their stories in ME3 and how they move on with their lives.

I only found Samara unnecessary from ME 2 crew. Also heard Jacob has a nice trick to pull on female Shepards luckily on my games, he always go where he wanted and eat hot rocket to the face.

If people question lack of any romance (cut scene or something more evolved) I can't see much have time for that except Jack to an extend.

Miranda is too busy and personally I would find a quickie in that apartment more disturbing than not having it. Thane has good story, it is beyond me what people were expecting from a dying man. Jack has his own responsibilities and it is good to see her getting better with Shepard's influence. Garrus and Tali already in game if you didn't kill them during Suicide Mission.

Looking back at VS (Kaidan in my case) other than Udina coup only mission I realized I have Kaidan in team is during Cerberus base, thanks to his "You are real enough for me" line. Other than that they are just there. I believe even that annoying Mutated Ape or Sexbot have more content than VS even without romances. If you take away romance part, as Cpt. Data said nothing left in VS.

I understand why Vega or EDI is there (to fill team roster as a Soldier or Engineer) however I prefer not having them and try to run whole content with Liara till I get VS (Garrus died on my main saves. Tried him with a save he survived but not a big loose. He is annoying as usual). EDI became disturbing with its sexbot body and consistent obsession about having a sex with crippled annoyance of a man. I even hate talking with Cortez because of Vega(he keeps barking something Spanish I don't understand). His looks to his personality to his voice acting irritates me even more than Jacob.

So I would love to have Miranda or Grunt instead of those two however without their stories in game ME 3 feels empty. I think I can say ME3 more ME2 crew game than VS/ME1 squadie game.

[Julia_xo]

Asperius wrote...
Thane has good story, it is beyond me what people were expecting from a dying man.

To some of us Thane is more than just 'a dying man'. There's more to his character than his illness (or at least there was in ME2).

There were hints that gave people hope that there would be a way to help him in ME3. That obviously didn't happen and so people who romanced Thane have to suffer through his scripted death. With no way to change or prevent it. To make matters worse, Shepard barely shows any emotion over his passing and is never even given the chance to tell him she loves him.

Contrast that with Miranda, who can also die, but whose death is an optional event. Players are given the choice to save her. If she was romanced but dies, ME2's love theme plays in the background while M!Shep holds her in his arms, they say they love each other and share one final kiss. It was very beautifully done and the romance was well-acknowledged in that scene.

Thane's forced death barely acknowledges his romance and that is pretty upsetting. For those who romanced him there's no real sense of closure to the relationship. The game doesn't acknowledge that he could be someone special to Shepard, someone she loves. When you get back to the ship people act like nothing happened. No one mentions him. Patrick Weekes (one of the devs) has even admitted it was a dropped ball.

So I'd say people have a right to be angry and upset. If you didn't romance a 'priority romance' (The VS, Liara, Garrus or Tali) you pretty much get the short end of the stick. And if your romance was Thane or Jacob, in particular, the stick is practically nonexistent.

[Scouten]

i want to see a patch that removes them from all 3 games they are the worst written and whiny characters ever we need a Paragon interrupt to throw him/her out of the airlock or dlc for Me2 to put them in in the suicide mission at the collector base

[shepskisaac]

I voted yes but Jacob/Thane/Jack/Miranda DLC should come first

[Silver77nz]

I would definately say yes but I do agree that ME2 got the short end of the stick especially femshep romance.
Thane-dies and Jacob-ends the relationship due to preggy gf. That leaves Garrus.

[Skullheart]

Sorry, but not.

A DLC of the VS during ME2 could have been good, but in ME3 they don't need it.

If there's a new DLC in ME3, I hope is something related to Jack and Miranda, like Shepard using them as squadmates to take down one of Cerberus facilities dedicated to biotics.

Miranda finds information about a facilities dedicated to create phantoms, and Jack needs to rescue some of her students captured from the front, and they could be there.It could be a good DLC to give a proper closure to any difference betwen Jack and Miranda, and a way to fix both of their romances.

[Siansonea]

I'd say no. I'm a quality-over-quantity kind of gal, and I was pleased with the quality of the Kaidan content (I haven't seen the Ashley content yet, that's coming up in my Infiltrator playthrough).

[JayTheWolf]

I don't really think so. I think they had enough of an impact on the game. I was more focused on the Reapers, anyway.

[anonymous1193]

If it allows me to throw em out the airlock I might consider it.
But I have already killed off the VS at the citadel....

[pygmius influenza]

no...kaiden is emo and ashley is...easy and not as militaristic now

[Veregan]

Even though Ash was my favourite character besides Shepard, I don't see this happening. I was slightly disappointed with the small dialogue lines we got aboard the normandy, but I think that the romance scenes near the end of the game as well as the citadel ones more than made up for it. I count myself lucky as an Ash fan, we got some great scenes with her, where as fans of other characters with less prominent roles got a much shorter end of the stick. The only thing I am genuinely concerned about is the ending.