Fingertrip wrote...
The progress of losing control was taken out, not the fact he was indoctrinated.
Jesus, people and their reading comprehension is .... depressing
Fingertrip wrote...
The progress of losing control was taken out, not the fact he was indoctrinated.
Jesus, people and their reading comprehension is .... depressing
Xerkysz wrote...
Fingertrip wrote...
The progress of losing control was taken out, not the fact he was indoctrinated.
Jesus, people and their reading comprehension is .... depressing
At times, what some people say (not only on these forums) makes me wonder how they are still breathing. T.T
MassEffected555 wrote...
Just to nip this in the bud - No the reapers being destroyed will not end the indoc. It states in ME2 that races that were indoctrinated just stood there and starved to death when the Reapers left.
Ok that's better. I want my Shep to starve to death because he is brain dead and doesn't know he is supposed to eat.
Yea I like all these terrible outcomes for Shep very much.
MassEffected555 wrote...
Rob_K1 wrote...
Tsantilas wrote...
So just to get this straight... the Indoctrination theory in a nutshell:
Shepard is indoctrinated some time after the Harbinger Beam. The whole rest of the game is in his head. I'll ignore the fact that nothing we experience from that point onwards other than the TIM sequence has any consistency to the codex entries on Indoctrination. You're saying it's all a test, and that the Destroy ending is the "good" ending that causes him to wake up in London (but only if you have 4000+ EMS). Cool. So every ending except Destroy with high EMS is a bad ending. So all the other endings are "you lose" and have nothing to do with choosing the ending for your Shepard. So that means that unless you shell out 10 bucks to Bioware for the so called "real ending" DLC, you will not experience the end of the Mass Effect franchise.
Are you seeing where I'm going with this...?
I'm personally not saying anything, other that pointing out that the developers at the very least considered it at one point and that rapid indoctrination is possible. Also, they were working on indoctrination in November. I do not know how the business works, but if they working on it in November, they'd have around two months to strip the theory out of the game? Depending on how heavily the indoctrination theory was worked into the game.
At any rate, I'm okay with the endings as they are. Not as happy as I could be but I won't kick up a fuss about them. So, I'm not someone that needs to go out and look for anything that makes the endings better. The theory simply makes the most sense.
As far as continuing the game if the theory is true (should you have chosen the non-destroy ending), I don't know how that'd work. Could just have you attempting to fight it off. But again, I have no clue how it would work. It is mere speculation.
No matter what, if the Indoc theory is true, Shepard winds up with a worse fate then the ending we got.
No thanks to your theory, I really don't want my Shep going insane, killing himself or turning into a husk. Those are the only possible outcome to your theory according to the games lore.
Unless Shepard is superman. Or there is more:wizard:
Modifié par MadRabbit999, 19 mars 2012 - 05:00 .
MassEffected555 wrote...
Rob_K1 wrote...
Tsantilas wrote...
So just to get this straight... the Indoctrination theory in a nutshell:
Shepard is indoctrinated some time after the Harbinger Beam. The whole rest of the game is in his head. I'll ignore the fact that nothing we experience from that point onwards other than the TIM sequence has any consistency to the codex entries on Indoctrination. You're saying it's all a test, and that the Destroy ending is the "good" ending that causes him to wake up in London (but only if you have 4000+ EMS). Cool. So every ending except Destroy with high EMS is a bad ending. So all the other endings are "you lose" and have nothing to do with choosing the ending for your Shepard. So that means that unless you shell out 10 bucks to Bioware for the so called "real ending" DLC, you will not experience the end of the Mass Effect franchise.
Are you seeing where I'm going with this...?
I'm personally not saying anything, other that pointing out that the developers at the very least considered it at one point and that rapid indoctrination is possible. Also, they were working on indoctrination in November. I do not know how the business works, but if they working on it in November, they'd have around two months to strip the theory out of the game? Depending on how heavily the indoctrination theory was worked into the game.
At any rate, I'm okay with the endings as they are. Not as happy as I could be but I won't kick up a fuss about them. So, I'm not someone that needs to go out and look for anything that makes the endings better. The theory simply makes the most sense.
As far as continuing the game if the theory is true (should you have chosen the non-destroy ending), I don't know how that'd work. Could just have you attempting to fight it off. But again, I have no clue how it would work. It is mere speculation.
No matter what, if the Indoc theory is true, Shepard winds up with a worse fate then the ending we got.
No thanks to your theory, I really don't want my Shep going insane, killing himself or turning into a husk. Those are the only possible outcome to your theory according to the games lore.
Unless Shepard is superman. Or there is more
The codex says that people becoming indoctrinated often see 'ghostly figures'. However, there is never any indication of this during the game other than the dreams, and the figures you see in the dreams are meant to simply represent all those that have fallen in this war, but that despite their deaths it is the death of that one child that is most haunting Shepard.MassEffected555 wrote...
1 thing to point out, and I may be wrong BUT I was always under the assumption people just HEAR whispers, like the Salarien tells you on Virmire, you constantly hear whispers. I never read or heard idocn makes you see things.
Now again, start a new game and make a new Shep and the last set of options you get to pick his Psycological Profile where you pick Numerous, Kaiden or Ashley and it tell you the toll of losing people is having a psycological effect on Shep, hence the nightmares.
Safoulan wrote...
MassEffected555 wrote...
Just to nip this in the bud - No the reapers being destroyed will not end the indoc. It states in ME2 that races that were indoctrinated just stood there and starved to death when the Reapers left.
Ok that's better. I want my Shep to starve to death because he is brain dead and doesn't know he is supposed to eat.
Yea I like all these terrible outcomes for Shep very much.
Indoc Theory suggests that the ending to ME3 is a symbolic method (in Shep's head) to break Indoc.
It relies on the scene via the 'Red' Ending where Shep awakens seemingly back on Earth.
(as you said, he is not Clark Kent & I don't see any way for him to survive the Citadel falling to Earth as rubble)
So, if it's correct, the Crucible has not yet been used and the possibility of ending the Reaper Threat for real is still doable.
Grusome11 wrote...
Alraiis wrote...
I like Indoctrination Theory. It's a nice way to interpret a poorly-written ending. Making lemonade and all that.
But would bet money that Bioware never intended it. I have two primary reasons:
snip
2. If Indoctrination was intended, the writers would have resolved it in-game.
Let's assume for the moment that Bioware has it all planned. Indoctrination Theory is 100% correct and all the clues were planted by Bioware deliberately. Why would they obfuscate this twist in the finished product? Take a look at what's going on right now. A significant number of players are dissatisfied. Some have sworn off Bioware products entirely. If Shepard's indoctrination played out in the game, then the story continued with Shepard getting up, seeing it through, and the races of the galaxy achieving victory, all of that would have been avoided. The writers would look clever and the players would be happy.
The Indoctrination Theory, as presented, would be terrible storytelling. It would be like Frodo almost dying on the way to Mount Doom, but then he wakes up, still miles away from his goal... and that's the end. No resolution. No ending. Only "Boy, that was a close call. But our hero is okay!" Shepard's mental state has nothing whatsoever to do with how the battle is going, and if the colorful explosions were all in Shepard's head, then the Reapers have not been stopped at all.
The in-game ending, if you take it at face value, is more of an ending than Indoctrination Theory. All Indoctrination Theory does is leave a door open that was closed so painfully by the endings as presented.
What's more likely? Given that all we have on either side are interpretations and guesses, what's the simpler solution? That Bioware didn't actually resolve the conflict, but only seeded clues, hidden for only a few players to find, about how the story would continue—clues that, once brought to light, would actually invalidate the choices of any player who chose Control or Synthesis and would also prove that their "ending" wasn't an end at all, going against all their claims? Or that, through short-sightedness, haste, or misjudgment, they simply wrote a sloppy and unsatisfying ending?
This is the weaknes point in indoctrination theory. Which is why, in order for it to work, the end, as presented, has to be a false ending.
However, I think your point about clues is incorrect. The clues are there for every player to see, regardless of their choices. Whether or not the player understands these clues is a different matter.
Tsantilas wrote...
and miraculously you wake up in London and you are just fine and proceed to dragon punch the Reapers into oblivion.
Rusty0918 wrote...
GAH!!!! I see you folks fail to grasp the concept. Shepard is experiencing the Reapers TRYING to indoctrinate him in his dream after he's knocked out by Harbinger. Who is to say they can't access your mind in dreams? Heck, they've got tens of thousands of years of practice, at least. Shepard has a stronger will than others, so its harder to do it to him. The point is the reapers trick you into being indoctrinated with the other two endings, which the Xerkysz, the OP, has quoted, they're desperate. It also explains that scene with Shepard in the rubble if you choose the Destroy option with high enough EMS - it ONLY appears at this point. Another clue that there is more to come.
Which leads me to another suspcion of why the devs won't "change" the "endings." I still guess that the "true" endings haven't been released yet.
The whole dream sequence is a test of wills as you fight off indoctrination by the Reapers. I also hear that if you choose Control (and Synthesis) that afterwards, Shepard has something like "reaper eyes," which does conform even more to the indoctrination theory.
The indoc. theory makes the most sense. Seriously it does. Now, I do want them to release "closure," you know, the "proper" ending and whatever content they're withholding from us.
MassEffected555 wrote...
OK what part arent you grasping or are you just conviently ignoring this point.
If Shepard is indoctrinated at any point in the game, it is permanent. Therefor Shepards fate will be to:
Become insane
Starve to death
Kill himself
Become a Husk
Because for everyone else, ever, in the game that has been indoctrinated that was their fate. Shepard is not superman so that has to be his fate to according to game lore and game mechanics.
So you guys want Shep to have a worse fate then what we got.
Modifié par Xerkysz, 19 mars 2012 - 05:06 .
Xerkysz wrote...
Tsantilas wrote...
and miraculously you wake up in London and you are just fine and proceed to dragon punch the Reapers into oblivion.
As I stated in a post on another thread, " (You're obviously not going to be getting up, brushing of your shoulders and charging back into battle. There's a fine line between believable and absolute bull****.) So I'll leave how to continue it to BioWare.
Candidate 88766 wrote...
The codex says that people becoming indoctrinated often see 'ghostly figures'. However, there is never any indication of this during the game other than the dreams, and the figures you see in the dreams are meant to simply represent all those that have fallen in this war, but that despite their deaths it is the death of that one child that is most haunting Shepard.MassEffected555 wrote...
1 thing to point out, and I may be wrong BUT I was always under the assumption people just HEAR whispers, like the Salarien tells you on Virmire, you constantly hear whispers. I never read or heard idocn makes you see things.
Now again, start a new game and make a new Shep and the last set of options you get to pick his Psycological Profile where you pick Numerous, Kaiden or Ashley and it tell you the toll of losing people is having a psycological effect on Shep, hence the nightmares.
And on the Derelict reaper, one of thinks he sees something behind one of the wall panels, but again Shepard never experiences this at all during the game.
But most of indoctrination is hearing things. The colonists on Eden Prime in ME1, the Salarians in the Virmire facility, Benezia on Noveria, the Rachni Queen in ME3 - all of them complain of this sound, these voices in their heads. Thats the main sign of indoctrination, and seeing as Shepard never experiences that the indoc theory seems little more than just that - a theory.
MassEffected555 wrote...
Just to nip this in the bud - No the reapers being destroyed will not end the indoc. It states in ME2 that races that were indoctrinated just stood there and starved to death when the Reapers left.
Ok that's better. I want my Shep to starve to death because he is brain dead and doesn't know he is supposed to eat.
Yea I like all these terrible outcomes for Shep very much.
Xerkysz wrote...
MassEffected555 wrote...
OK what part arent you grasping or are you just conviently ignoring this point.
If Shepard is indoctrinated at any point in the game, it is permanent. Therefor Shepards fate will be to:
Become insane
Starve to death
Kill himself
Become a Husk
Because for everyone else, ever, in the game that has been indoctrinated that was their fate. Shepard is not superman so that has to be his fate to according to game lore and game mechanics.
So you guys want Shep to have a worse fate then what we got.
What you aren't grasping or are conveniently ignoring is shepard isn't FULLY INDOCTRINATED, Harbinger is TRYING keyword being TRYING to indoctrinate you.
IronSabbath88 wrote...
I'm pretty sure Shepard was hearing voices AND seeing ghostly images. So what if it was only in his nightmares? It seems that everytime he let his mind rest, he would have those visions. When he was vunerable.
Tsantilas wrote...
So basically the only way the Indoctrination Theory can result in a positive outcome, is if Bioware retcons everything we know about Indoctrination by releasing a (free? lol) DLC that causes you to Defeat Indoctrination with only 1 out of 16 possible endings, and miraculously you wake up in London and you are just fine and proceed to dragon punch the Reapers into oblivion.
I think we might have actually found a solid argument against the Indoctrination Theory in this thread. Rejoice! We're still ****ed!
MassEffected555 wrote...
Saren and Benezia weren't FULLY INDOCTRINATED EITHER but they still did what the Reapers want. I ****ing copied a wiki post and even bolded it for you.
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