758 réponses à ce sujet

[Safoulan]

MassEffected555 wrote...

And before ME3 there was no space magice and breathing in space with no helmet, but now there is so its OK then according to you. 

Not really.
I didn't enjoy that and I also hated how "God-Modded" Cerberus & Kai Leng were.

But if Indoc is correct that whole sequence was about Shep doing something no one had done before.
That's why only 1 ending can successfully break Indoc.
That's why those symbolic choices are presented as they were.

In fact, real world brainwashing is similar.
Eyes forced open.
Rapid fire images & scenes shown to coerce an individual.
It fits with the choppy visions of joker, relay's, earth, alien planet.

You insist that game lore cannot be broken.
I suggest it already has been.

I don't know how to feel about this fact, but I do believe it's fact.

[MadRabbit999]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

You forgot to mention the Shepard is the only one who has seen and interacted with the kid... and the community of the indoctrinatio ntheory, believes him to be an illusion too, I said the kid was and illusion the moment shepard saw him die  (This was before knowing the endings) it was just a gut feeling, and it was weird that later on coincided with the theories of the indoctrination.

The child may be an illusion brought on by PTSD or something, but it doesn't prove the theory. Thats not how indoctrination works. 

That is true.. but is a clue that can g oeither way...

My really first thought it was that perhaps that child was the reflection of Shepard as a child.. but that he had forgotten...

Its an interesting idea, but it seems more likely that the child is simply there to create emotion. The Alliance soldiers were pretty desperate to leave, and yet wait until the child is on the shuttle before closing the doors and ordering them to leave. Thats indication enough to me that they're not completetly ignoring him, which seems to be one of the focal points of the argument.

Try to see it from the point of view of the soldier.. if there is a child running toward yuor vehicle.. wouldn't you wave him to hurry up.. or stretch your hand and grab/hug him? Maybe I am jsut over protective.. but that to me seems the most common reaction to help a frightened child.

[Jaze55]

Xerkysz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

But eventually he would succomb and become a Husk according to the games lore and mechanics. Just like Shepard, unless Shep is super human.

If I say Shepard is Goku and he's going to Kamehameha the Reaper's into non-existense, will you leave?

Why do you want me to belive? Because I am pointing out the flaw in your beloved theory?

What's the matter you don't like how I use game laws and mechanics against you? It's ok when you bend things to make you right but when someone points out the same game mechanics proving you are wrong is bad?

Dude you can't just ignore the past 3 games laws just to make you right for 10 minutes of the last game. 

Modifié par MassEffected555, 19 mars 2012 - 05:19 .

[Tsantilas]

Safoulan wrote...

If you believe BioWare's heart and soul belong to EA, your objectivity can become severely compromised.
Do you deny that they delivered a supurb game in ME3 up until the very end?
(I'm not asking whether the end ruined the entire game because I already know the answer to that)
Where's your faith?
They've already done things in the ME Trilogy that no other game has done before.
It has been entertaining, interesting, and a fun wild ride till the end of ME3.

There will be no dragon punching. Lol.
The Crucible has not been used if Indoc Theory is correct.
Therefore, the Reaper threat can still be battled and presumably won.

EA owns Bioware.  The people who created Mass Effect 3 are EA employees.  Bioware has had a less than stellar track record since EA bought BW (*cough* DAII).  ME3 was until the last 10 minutes, a 8.5-9/10 by my books.  I genuinelly think that Bioware intended to make a profound deep ending that gives the player something to think about.  In their eyes they probably still see it as a success.  Unfortunatelly much of the fanbase disagrees.

I have faith in Bioware to correct their endings, but I'm not naive enough to think they'll do it for free.  I also don't think EA/Bioware would risk everything on something like the Indoctrination theory.

Obviously my dragon punch comment is a great exageration.  My point is that everything the game has established about indoctrination up to this point, says that even if Shepard manages to break indoctrination, he will simply be a shadow of his former self, which is no better than the current ending, and has no effect on the plot itself.  If Shepard beats indoctrination and wakes up braindead in London, then he will not take any part in any "real ending dlc".

[ShaneP]

Fingertrip wrote...
Because Shepard hasn't been in contact with any Reaper Artifacts, or Reapers at all for the past 3 games. Let-alone The Arrival clearly indicates something happend to Shepard. But I suppose only the 1% actually understands The Arrival DLC content has some connection with the Indoctrination, and the conclussion of ME3.

And as I stated, that was at the end of ME2. 6 months is too long for indoctrination to take effect. I've played Arrival many times, and I understand it perfectly. The suggestion that Object Rho indoctrinates Shepard is NEVER made during Arrival. Shepard is never exposed to reaper tech for long enoug for indoctrination to take effect. I'd actually wager that it's you that's ignoring the time frame between the games to make your ends fit.

[Jaze55]

Safoulan wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

And before ME3 there was no space magice and breathing in space with no helmet, but now there is so its OK then according to you. 

Not really.
I didn't enjoy that and I also hated how "God-Modded" Cerberus & Kai Leng were.

But if Indoc is correct that whole sequence was about Shep doing something no one had done before.
That's why only 1 ending can successfully break Indoc.
That's why those symbolic choices are presented as they were.

In fact, real world brainwashing is similar.
Eyes forced open.
Rapid fire images & scenes shown to coerce an individual.
It fits with the choppy visions of joker, relay's, earth, alien planet.

You insist that game lore cannot be broken.
I suggest it already has been.

I don't know how to feel about this fact, but I do believe it's fact.

And I am saying if game lore can be broken then space magic is feasible. Or does it only work when it supports you?

[Candidate 88766]

KitePolaris wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

KitePolaris wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
None of these things can be overcome through willpower. 

The Reapers don't need to 'trick' Shepard into becomming indoctrinated - indoctrination cannot fail. Electromagnetic fields cannot be stopped with willpower. All it takes is time. You can delay it by staying away from Reaper technology, but you can't prevent it from happening through willpower. Anyone who believes this doesn't actually know how indoctrination works.

And if the Reapers were, as you say, desperate, Harbinger would simply keep shooting Shepard's body until there was nothing left but a smoking crater and some ash.

Willpower does very much have an effect on preventing indoctrination. Why do you think TIM pumped Red Sand into Paul? Because he wouldn't let the Reapers into his head even though he was filled with the tech. And when the effects wore off, he was able to resist more.

All it was doing was slowing the reapers down though. Once you're indoctrinated, there is no going back. Willpower can't undo the changes to your mind that indoctrination causes.

The main problem with Paul was the Reaper used his body as an avatar. Shepard doesn't have that problem.

But according to the theory, not only is Shepard unconcious (making indoctrination easier) but is also being indoctrainted by Harbinger - one of the oldest reapers, who is standing right next to him. On top of this, Shepard doesn't actually know he is being indoctrinated.

Grayson was being indoctrinated by fragments of Reaper tech, not a full-on Reaper, and was aware of what was happening. And even then, you could do nothing but hold them off for a while. That doesn't disprove my main point - once you've been indoctrinated, there's no going back. the lore itself states that indoctrination causes permanent changes to the brain. If Shepard has been indoctrinated to the point of full hallucinations (something the lore hasn't indicated is possible, but I'll let that slide for now) then even he can somehow break free of Harbinger's grasp, he is still indoctrinated. Willpower cannot undo changes made to the brain by electromagnetic fields. Harbinger could simply seize Shepard's mind again straight away if this theory is correct.

[Capeo]

Tsantilas wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I'm pretty sure Shepard was hearing voices AND seeing ghostly images. So what if it was only in his nightmares? It seems that everytime he let his mind rest, he would have those visions. When he was vunerable.

... OR you know, since he only has those nightmares after someone significant dies?  Like after the kid dies? After Mordin Dies? After Thane dies?  PTSD!  The only time in the whole trilogy that Shepard (and us as players) ever experience something even closely resembling what has been established through the Narrative as Indoctrination, is during the TIM sequence.  TIM dies, blurry black outline thing goes away.  No more control.  That is the ONLY time.  Never during the whole 5 year experience, through all the contact he's had with reapers and reaper tech, has Shepard experienced anything even remotelly resembling Indoctrination other than that one scene.  Not so much as a "well maybe reapers aren't completely wrong".

Ah, common sense!  The script makes it clear the nightmares are about guilt.  It states outright that as the game goes on blurry ghost images appear in the nightmares representing all the civilians dying.  The game does too actually.  That's why, if you don't import a Shep you have to choose your biggest regret.

[Candidate 88766]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Try to see it from the point of view of the soldier.. if there is a child running toward yuor vehicle.. wouldn't you wave him to hurry up.. or stretch your hand and grab/hug him? Maybe I am jsut over protective.. but that to me seems the most common reaction to help a frightened child.

I've always found that a bit odd, but given that they wait for him to get on despite being in such a rush kind of disproves the idea that no-one else notices him.

[Xerkysz]

MassEffected555 wrote...


Why do you want me to belive? Because I am pointing out the flaw in your beloved theory?

What's the matter you don't like how I use game laws and mechanics against you? It's ok when you bend things to make you right but when someone points out the same game mechanics proving you are wrong is bad?

Dude you can't just ignore the past 3 games laws just to make your right for 10 minutes of the last game. 

That's exactly what you're doing, you're too enraged to see what we are saying.

You think we are simply saying shep is full indoc'd, and you're then saying he's gonna turn into a husk, or shoot himself.

That's not what we are saying.

Harbinger wants to indoc you in ME2, except he can't.
All the time around reaper tech, this is where it begins.
Harbinger wants shep, he near misses him with his beam, this gets the adrenaline racing in sheps body, to keep him alive, and knocks him out.
Unconscious and full of adrenaline means Harbinger can rape your brain a hell of a lot easier, so this is where he gets his shot.

[ArkkAngel007]

Capeo wrote...

I can't believe this is still being debated. BW said last night they are not changing the endings. IT doesn't make sense and fits none of the actual evidence anyway (i.e. script, app, dev interviews, the friggin title screen at the end of the game, the epilogue, what BW said LAST NIGHT, etc.) but that's besides the point. BW admitted it already. These are the ends they intended.

Use your brains for a second. Outside of the above objective evidence (the IT depends on utterly subjective evidence) you honestly believe BW would have shipped their biggest game to date with an incomplete ending? Really? Think about that. The gaming press has already given their reviews which they are touting in their commercials. Millions have already played. You honestly think they are holding an ending in the wing that invalidates two of the final choices in the game? You think that wouldn't be a worse clusterF than this? Do you think the gaming press is going to go back and re-review the game? Do you think they wouldn't come out guns blazing over such a cheap deception?

Honestly, the whole idea is ridiculous.

It's much less subjective than the reasonings most give in other views.  And it isn't about changing the ending.  It's explaining what is happenig behind the endings and explaining the discrepencies behind the ending just beyond assumptions such as "BioWare writers dropped the ball".  With .8 % of the game being completely off from the rest of the established game, that assumption doesn't really hold well.

So really, IT people are using their brains beyond the "easy" assumptions.  Maybe you don't agree and believe BioWare is purposely trying to take advantage of you as a customer.  Fine, that's your opinion.  But it doesn't invalidate what is found to be present.

And I agree that a "true" ending DLC could be a potentially bad situation and precedent for future titles.  But that's a road we as consumers will have to choose to cross when the time comes.  Burning the village over the potential of a situation we don't even know will happen serves nothing.

[Candidate 88766]

Rob_K1 wrote...
Edit: Oh, one thing... on whether subliminal methods can be resisted, does that not come down to the person in question who's receiving said subliminal signals? I don't know about the rest of it though.

Not really - thats why their subliminal. You don't notice them, and so you can't fight them.

Plus, indoctrination also uses electromagnetic fields, among other things, which can't simply be ignored no matter how much willpower you have.

[Vikali]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

KitePolaris wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

KitePolaris wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
None of these things can be overcome through willpower. 

The Reapers don't need to 'trick' Shepard into becomming indoctrinated - indoctrination cannot fail. Electromagnetic fields cannot be stopped with willpower. All it takes is time. You can delay it by staying away from Reaper technology, but you can't prevent it from happening through willpower. Anyone who believes this doesn't actually know how indoctrination works.

And if the Reapers were, as you say, desperate, Harbinger would simply keep shooting Shepard's body until there was nothing left but a smoking crater and some ash.

Willpower does very much have an effect on preventing indoctrination. Why do you think TIM pumped Red Sand into Paul? Because he wouldn't let the Reapers into his head even though he was filled with the tech. And when the effects wore off, he was able to resist more.

All it was doing was slowing the reapers down though. Once you're indoctrinated, there is no going back. Willpower can't undo the changes to your mind that indoctrination causes.

The main problem with Paul was the Reaper used his body as an avatar. Shepard doesn't have that problem.

But according to the theory, not only is Shepard unconcious (making indoctrination easier) but is also being indoctrainted by Harbinger - one of the oldest reapers, who is standing right next to him. On top of this, Shepard doesn't actually know he is being indoctrinated.

Grayson was being indoctrinated by fragments of Reaper tech, not a full-on Reaper, and was aware of what was happening. And even then, you could do nothing but hold them off for a while. That doesn't disprove my main point - once you've been indoctrinated, there's no going back. the lore itself states that indoctrination causes permanent changes to the brain. If Shepard has been indoctrinated to the point of full hallucinations (something the lore hasn't indicated is possible, but I'll let that slide for now) then even he can somehow break free of Harbinger's grasp, he is still indoctrinated. Willpower cannot undo changes made to the brain by electromagnetic fields. Harbinger could simply seize Shepard's mind again straight away if this theory is correct.

But it doesn't disprove that he can regain control of his mind and continue on and get us a real conclusion.  If he can resist it long enough. I never said I think he'll just shake off the effects fully, but does that mean he can't go on? Nope. 

I'm not looking for a happy ending. I wouldn't care if he really had to make a heroic sacrifice or turn into a mutant Grayson 2.0 after it all, but I'm saying there's room for this theory according to lore.

[Safoulan]

Tsantilas wrote...

Safoulan wrote...

If you believe BioWare's heart and soul belong to EA, your objectivity can become severely compromised.
Do you deny that they delivered a supurb game in ME3 up until the very end?
(I'm not asking whether the end ruined the entire game because I already know the answer to that)
Where's your faith?
They've already done things in the ME Trilogy that no other game has done before.
It has been entertaining, interesting, and a fun wild ride till the end of ME3.

There will be no dragon punching. Lol.
The Crucible has not been used if Indoc Theory is correct.
Therefore, the Reaper threat can still be battled and presumably won.

EA owns Bioware.  The people who created Mass Effect 3 are EA employees.  Bioware has had a less than stellar track record since EA bought BW (*cough* DAII).  ME3 was until the last 10 minutes, a 8.5-9/10 by my books.  I genuinelly think that Bioware intended to make a profound deep ending that gives the player something to think about.  In their eyes they probably still see it as a success.  Unfortunatelly much of the fanbase disagrees.

I have faith in Bioware to correct their endings, but I'm not naive enough to think they'll do it for free.  I also don't think EA/Bioware would risk everything on something like the Indoctrination theory.

Obviously my dragon punch comment is a great exageration.  My point is that everything the game has established about indoctrination up to this point, says that even if Shepard manages to break indoctrination, he will simply be a shadow of his former self, which is no better than the current ending, and has no effect on the plot itself.  If Shepard beats indoctrination and wakes up braindead in London, then he will not take any part in any "real ending dlc".

Indoc Theory could be so wrong that many of it's supporters angrily destroy their copies of ME3 when it's revealed as such.

But I don't trust game lore as much as others seem to.
Game lore and plausibility have already been broken in this franchise.

Shep being rebuilt and getting what was (essentially) the same ship back again was so far off the realism/plausible charts that if I didn't love the story so much, I'd have stopped playing right there.
But I wanted it to happen. So I accepted it like the Dreamer I am.

Your insisting that Game Lore cannot be broken into little pieces is easily as shaky as Indoc Theory ever was.

End of Line. 

[Candidate 88766]

Capeo wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I'm pretty sure Shepard was hearing voices AND seeing ghostly images. So what if it was only in his nightmares? It seems that everytime he let his mind rest, he would have those visions. When he was vunerable.

... OR you know, since he only has those nightmares after someone significant dies?  Like after the kid dies? After Mordin Dies? After Thane dies?  PTSD!  The only time in the whole trilogy that Shepard (and us as players) ever experience something even closely resembling what has been established through the Narrative as Indoctrination, is during the TIM sequence.  TIM dies, blurry black outline thing goes away.  No more control.  That is the ONLY time.  Never during the whole 5 year experience, through all the contact he's had with reapers and reaper tech, has Shepard experienced anything even remotelly resembling Indoctrination other than that one scene.  Not so much as a "well maybe reapers aren't completely wrong".

Ah, common sense!  The script makes it clear the nightmares are about guilt.  It states outright that as the game goes on blurry ghost images appear in the nightmares representing all the civilians dying.  The game does too actually.  That's why, if you don't import a Shep you have to choose your biggest regret.

Thank you - someone else finally seems to understand the dream sequences.

[Capeo]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Try to see it from the point of view of the soldier.. if there is a child running toward yuor vehicle.. wouldn't you wave him to hurry up.. or stretch your hand and grab/hug him? Maybe I am jsut over protective.. but that to me seems the most common reaction to help a frightened child.

I've always found that a bit odd, but given that they wait for him to get on despite being in such a rush kind of disproves the idea that no-one else notices him.

That and the soldier banging the door once he's on telling them to take off.  Oh, and that Shepard talks to Garrus about the kid.  Oh, and that you can see the kid run into the room with the vent before Shep gets there so he doesn't just "appear out of thin air".  Oh, and that you can see his missing photo in the Citadel with all the others and it says "Last seen on Earth".  

[Tsantilas]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Try to see it from the point of view of the soldier.. if there is a child running toward yuor vehicle.. wouldn't you wave him to hurry up.. or stretch your hand and grab/hug him? Maybe I am jsut over protective.. but that to me seems the most common reaction to help a frightened child.

What about the soldier that was standing right outside the shuttle door checking the perimiter for enemies while the Kid got onto the shuttle?  Kid gets on shuttle, shuttle doors close, soldier outside punches shuttle, shuttle takes off.  Why would the shuttle wait around for an illusion?

[Jaze55]

Capeo wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I'm pretty sure Shepard was hearing voices AND seeing ghostly images. So what if it was only in his nightmares? It seems that everytime he let his mind rest, he would have those visions. When he was vunerable.

... OR you know, since he only has those nightmares after someone significant dies?  Like after the kid dies? After Mordin Dies? After Thane dies?  PTSD!  The only time in the whole trilogy that Shepard (and us as players) ever experience something even closely resembling what has been established through the Narrative as Indoctrination, is during the TIM sequence.  TIM dies, blurry black outline thing goes away.  No more control.  That is the ONLY time.  Never during the whole 5 year experience, through all the contact he's had with reapers and reaper tech, has Shepard experienced anything even remotelly resembling Indoctrination other than that one scene.  Not so much as a "well maybe reapers aren't completely wrong".

Ah, common sense!  The script makes it clear the nightmares are about guilt.  It states outright that as the game goes on blurry ghost images appear in the nightmares representing all the civilians dying.  The game does too actually.  That's why, if you don't import a Shep you have to choose your biggest regret.

AND the start of the game when you pick his PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE it says  and I will type it all out again:

"
PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE:

no matter what you pick out of Numerous, Kaiden or Ashly it states:

"The death of numerous squadmates and friends have begun to play a significat role in Commander Shepards psycological profile.

The buredn of inevitable combat loss after so many high-risk missions weighs heavily on Shepard" 

They go out of their way for you to see that at the start of the game. HMMMMM I wonder why. Oh cause Shep had PTSD

[mooney6023]

With 4000+ EMS the Destroy ending is specifically a significant choice. Sure, you get the scene with shepard breathing in the rubble, but you also get a "lived to fight again" flag set in you save file.

You can confirm the existence of this flag with the GIBB ME3 save editor.

I think this supports the existence of post end content and, indirectly, a variation of the Indoc theory. Why have such a flag otherwise?

Or did someone prove that flag was set with other ending variations and I just haven't seen it?

[Capeo]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I'm pretty sure Shepard was hearing voices AND seeing ghostly images. So what if it was only in his nightmares? It seems that everytime he let his mind rest, he would have those visions. When he was vunerable.

... OR you know, since he only has those nightmares after someone significant dies?  Like after the kid dies? After Mordin Dies? After Thane dies?  PTSD!  The only time in the whole trilogy that Shepard (and us as players) ever experience something even closely resembling what has been established through the Narrative as Indoctrination, is during the TIM sequence.  TIM dies, blurry black outline thing goes away.  No more control.  That is the ONLY time.  Never during the whole 5 year experience, through all the contact he's had with reapers and reaper tech, has Shepard experienced anything even remotelly resembling Indoctrination other than that one scene.  Not so much as a "well maybe reapers aren't completely wrong".

Ah, common sense!  The script makes it clear the nightmares are about guilt.  It states outright that as the game goes on blurry ghost images appear in the nightmares representing all the civilians dying.  The game does too actually.  That's why, if you don't import a Shep you have to choose your biggest regret.

AND the start of the game when you pick his PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE it says  and I will type it all out again:

"
PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE:

no matter what you pick out of Numerous, Kaiden or Ashly it states:

"The death of numerous squadmates and friends have begun to play a significat role in Commander Shepards psycological profile.

The buredn of inevitable combat loss after so many high-risk missions weighs heavily on Shepard" 

They go out of their way for you to see that at the start of the game. HMMMMM I wonder why. Oh cause Shep had PTSD

That's just part of the game trying to indoctrinate you 

[Jaze55]

Capeo wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I'm pretty sure Shepard was hearing voices AND seeing ghostly images. So what if it was only in his nightmares? It seems that everytime he let his mind rest, he would have those visions. When he was vunerable.

... OR you know, since he only has those nightmares after someone significant dies?  Like after the kid dies? After Mordin Dies? After Thane dies?  PTSD!  The only time in the whole trilogy that Shepard (and us as players) ever experience something even closely resembling what has been established through the Narrative as Indoctrination, is during the TIM sequence.  TIM dies, blurry black outline thing goes away.  No more control.  That is the ONLY time.  Never during the whole 5 year experience, through all the contact he's had with reapers and reaper tech, has Shepard experienced anything even remotelly resembling Indoctrination other than that one scene.  Not so much as a "well maybe reapers aren't completely wrong".

Ah, common sense!  The script makes it clear the nightmares are about guilt.  It states outright that as the game goes on blurry ghost images appear in the nightmares representing all the civilians dying.  The game does too actually.  That's why, if you don't import a Shep you have to choose your biggest regret.

AND the start of the game when you pick his PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE it says  and I will type it all out again:

"
PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE:

no matter what you pick out of Numerous, Kaiden or Ashly it states:

"The death of numerous squadmates and friends have begun to play a significat role in Commander Shepards psycological profile.

The buredn of inevitable combat loss after so many high-risk missions weighs heavily on Shepard" 

They go out of their way for you to see that at the start of the game. HMMMMM I wonder why. Oh cause Shep had PTSD

That's just part of the game trying to indoctrinate you 

Obviously 

[Candidate 88766]

KitePolaris wrote...

But it doesn't disprove that he can regain control of his mind and continue on and get us a real conclusion.  If he can resist it long enough. I never said I think he'll just shake off the effects fully, but does that mean he can't go on? Nope. 

I'm not looking for a happy ending. I wouldn't care if he really had to make a heroic sacrifice or turn into a mutant Grayson 2.0 after it all, but I'm saying there's room for this theory according to lore.

It does disprove it though.

The lore itself states that by the time the Reapers have gained control of the person's body, that person is hearing alien voices in their mind. Now just imagine how indoctrinated you'd have to be in order to hallucinate entire scenes. Understanding that indoctrination causes changes toy uor mind, and that these changes are permanent, there is no way that Shepard is going to be able to do anything. 

Not only that, but the lore never hints that full hallucinations are possible, and given that there were no signs over any of the games of even low levels of indoctrination in Shepard, Harbinger would have to be indoctrinating Shepard faster than the lore has ever indicated is possible, which would leave Shepard as little more than a husk.

[Vikali]

mooney6023 wrote...

With 4000+ EMS the Destroy ending is specifically a significant choice. Sure, you get the scene with shepard breathing in the rubble, but you also get a "lived to fight again" flag set in you save file.

You can confirm the existence of this flag with the GIBB ME3 save editor.

I think this supports the existence of post end content and, indirectly, a variation of the Indoc theory. Why have such a flag otherwise?

Or did someone prove that flag was set with other ending variations and I just haven't seen it?

Gib said he took a lot of stuff from his ME2 editor, so that flag could very well just be recycled.

[Zhant]

a very, very, very simple question: why do reapers want a last minute indoc?

[Capeo]

mooney6023 wrote...

With 4000+ EMS the Destroy ending is specifically a significant choice. Sure, you get the scene with shepard breathing in the rubble, but you also get a "lived to fight again" flag set in you save file.

You can confirm the existence of this flag with the GIBB ME3 save editor.

I think this supports the existence of post end content and, indirectly, a variation of the Indoc theory. Why have such a flag otherwise?

Or did someone prove that flag was set with other ending variations and I just haven't seen it?

It's evidence you got that ending.  That's it.  You cannot live in the other endings because your physical form is consumed so you're not going to get that flag.