758 réponses à ce sujet

[Zhant]

ok, both my 2500 save and over 5000 save give me a ending number 2.
that means dead, right?

[Tsantilas]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

I just came in here to say I support this theory 100%. Nobody will be able to change my mind, so don't even try.

I know what I saw and I'm pretty confident I'm able to put the pieces together, like BioWare intended me to do.

Cool story, bro.  You are adding nothing to the discussion.

I'm fairly certain there's nothing that says I can't post my opinion.

Right, and we're very greatful.  Is there something else you would like to discuss?

[Jaze55]

4th time im posting this for the people who keep asking about the saves but aren't capable of reading a few posts up that answers them

http://www.gamespot....ybody-62228429/

[Rob_K1]

Capeo wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

mooney6023 wrote...

KitePolaris wrote...

mooney6023 wrote...

With 4000+ EMS the Destroy ending is specifically a significant choice. Sure, you get the scene with shepard breathing in the rubble, but you also get a "lived to fight again" flag set in you save file.

You can confirm the existence of this flag with the GIBB ME3 save editor.

I think this supports the existence of post end content and, indirectly, a variation of the Indoc theory. Why have such a flag otherwise?

Or did someone prove that flag was set with other ending variations and I just haven't seen it?

Gib said he took a lot of stuff from his ME2 editor, so that flag could very well just be recycled.

Why does it get set only if you choose Destroy with 4000+ EMS?  Even if Gib recycled the text describing it in his editor it's still a value getting changed in the save file by the game.

Because that's the only ending where Shepard lives?  Where are you going with this?

I'm going to be short and sweet here:

The moment the 'child' says that the destroy option would destroy all synthetics and then says even Shepard is partly synthetic, implying he'd die, is what immediately brings into question everything the child says.

That is what sealed it for me that the ending is not as it seems, as Shepard is shown breathing with the destroy ending if you have enough EMS. I do not care about the rest of the evidence. Again, that one little bit shows me that nothing said can be taken at face value.

That's ridiculous.  It's directly from the script.  There's only one ending where Shep lives and that's it.  Oddly, the script never mentions indoctrination anywhere.  You're also reading far too much into "even you are partly synthetic" because, at most, that may imply Shep dies.  He's where your logic fails.  The kid tells Shep HE WILL DIE FOR SURE in the other two endings.  How the hell do you see that as him talking Shep out of Destroy?  Sorry for the shouting but I'm sick of hearing the same arguments over and over.

Yet I could also play the same card and say you're not reading enough into it? See, I will disagree with you, Capeo and Candidate, on this. I know the english language and, by that, I'm not saying that you do not. I am simply saying that the implication is there. I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right either.

Fair enough, you take it to mean the synthetic parts of Shepard will die. I take it to mean Shepard will die. Besides, I'm not clear on this, but does Shepard not need those synthetic parts to live?

If you want to play the card that you did regarding the bolded part though, I could counter and say that bit wasn't the part that was meant to deter him from choosing the destroy option. Instead, it is the fact it's mentioned the Geth will die. And you could also see it as the 'child' implying that synthetics have their uses, as Shepard knows, due to his implants therefore making him see that it's not the best option.

Besides, there is no real reason for the child to reference Shepard's synthetic parts, if it would not kill him. Unless the child is trying to make Shepard aware of their benefits as I mentioned above. That is the only reason, other than lying, that it would say it in my mind.

Anyways, unless you can give a good reason as to why the child would say that about Shepard, there's not much  point trying to convince me otherwise as there's not much point in me trying to convince either of you otherwise.

Modifié par Rob_K1, 19 mars 2012 - 06:02 .

[Tsantilas]

MassEffected555 wrote...

4th time im posting this for the people who keep asking about the saves but aren't capable of reading a few posts up that answers them

http://www.gamespot....ybody-62228429/

I'll help

[Zhant]

MassEffected555 wrote...

4th time im posting this for the people who keep asking about the saves but aren't capable of reading a few posts up that answers them

http://www.gamespot....ybody-62228429/

well the problem is that, in saves the first choice is actually choice 0, not 1, so all unfinished save comes with a ending number 0, instead of 1.

just make sure

[Jaze55]

I still haven't heard anything about what happens to Shepard after the Indoc?

So what happens after does he:

Go insane
Become no longer able to take care of himself
kill himself
have a freind kill him
gets locked in a psych ward
turn into a husk

because according to the games laws and mechanics these are the only possible outcomes.

SO, what one do we have to look forward to for our beloved Shepard?

[Capeo]

Zhant wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Zhant wrote...

pls, the fight later on between TIM and shepard would make close to no sense, if they were both indoctrinated.

BTW, how did TIM got his face scar?

Again... TIM got his facial stuff from experimenting with reaper tech.  Did no one pay attention to the Cerberus subplot?  Why do I have to keep pointing this out?

As for the reapers taking much longer to whipe out the Protheans... maybe because they had to search the whole freaking galaxy for them?  In "our" cycle pretty much the whole galactic fleet is on earth.  All the birds with 1 stone.

well i now TIM is basically a hust since th novel, but since when does reaper implant give people facial scar like that? cerberus trooper looks like normal husks and kai leng doesn't even have scar

just curious

Uh, simple answer?  Because it looks cool.

[antony.daley]

One point of the OP theory in that the Prothean VI says "Secuirty overridden" he then says something along the lines of "you have come to take me away from the indoctrinated ones" or something similar - If my memory serves me rightly.

Im not for or against the indoctrination theory - For the exact point that it is a theory. All the theory have possible valid points. They all equally have enough flaws in them to leave them as theory and not proof or fact.

[Jaze55]

Zhant wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

4th time im posting this for the people who keep asking about the saves but aren't capable of reading a few posts up that answers them

http://www.gamespot....ybody-62228429/

well the problem is that, in saves the first choice is actually choice 0, not 1, so all unfinished save comes with a ending number 0, instead of 1.

just make sure

I personaly don't know crap about save game editors, i never use them but that post seemed helpful to you guys so that's why I put it. I am not interested in that in the least, just trying to help you out and I hope it did. 

[Rusty0918]

Nyogen, the logic of the Indoctrination Theory is more compelling than you're led to believe, and those flags seem to be quite interesting. It's the only thing that could make sense, not to mention the whole Shepard awakening from the rubble.

[Midnight Eternal]

Wow, people are still at it? I thought this thread died long ago. I guess my explanation on how some of these points supposedly supporting this "theory" are logical fallacies was ignored XD. It's fine to take things from context, but think this is just too far. As I said before, I respect brainstorming, but be intelligent about it and re-examine your points before you proclaim them as proof.

[Zhant]

Uh, simple answer?  Because it looks cool.

I actually like the half husked TIM from art book better, , not the boss design though

[Vikali]

Midnight Eternal wrote...

Wow, people are still at it? I thought this thread died long ago. I guess my explanation on how some of these points supposedly supporting this "theory" are logical fallacies was ignored XD. It's fine to take things from context, but think this is just too far. As I said before, I respect brainstorming, but be intelligent about it and re-examine your points before you proclaim them as proof.

Nah, we're all having a good debate. It's actually quite fun.

[IronSabbath88]

You know, for all you people who come in here talking about how this theory is false and that we're overthinking or whatever.

You have a lot of nerve to request new endings with the "Retake" movement when here we are, giving people an out to make the endings better, a reason if you will, and what do you do? You deny that it's even possible! So you hate the endings, but when someone tries to make sense of them to make them better, you STILL hate them?!

I don't get it, do you just hate BioWare in general or what?

[nyogen]

antony.daley wrote...

One point of the OP theory in that the Prothean VI says "Secuirty overridden" he then says something along the lines of "you have come to take me away from the indoctrinated ones" or something similar - If my memory serves me rightly.

Im not for or against the indoctrination theory - For the exact point that it is a theory. All the theory have possible valid points. They all equally have enough flaws in them to leave them as theory and not proof or fact.

He's still dingling that nonsense around ? lol I kindly dismantled that theory for him yesterday but I see he made another thread about that bull crap. His own supporters called him on that bs

http://social.biowar.../index/10185488

[Cucobr]

The Indoctrination Theory is the only that makes sense.

Waiting for know what happend when Shepard wake up.

[Capeo]

Rob_K1 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

Rob_K1 wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

mooney6023 wrote...

KitePolaris wrote...

mooney6023 wrote...

With 4000+ EMS the Destroy ending is specifically a significant choice. Sure, you get the scene with shepard breathing in the rubble, but you also get a "lived to fight again" flag set in you save file.

You can confirm the existence of this flag with the GIBB ME3 save editor.

I think this supports the existence of post end content and, indirectly, a variation of the Indoc theory. Why have such a flag otherwise?

Or did someone prove that flag was set with other ending variations and I just haven't seen it?

Gib said he took a lot of stuff from his ME2 editor, so that flag could very well just be recycled.

Why does it get set only if you choose Destroy with 4000+ EMS?  Even if Gib recycled the text describing it in his editor it's still a value getting changed in the save file by the game.

Because that's the only ending where Shepard lives?  Where are you going with this?

I'm going to be short and sweet here:

The moment the 'child' says that the destroy option would destroy all synthetics and then says even Shepard is partly synthetic, implying he'd die, is what immediately brings into question everything the child says.

That is what sealed it for me that the ending is not as it seems, as Shepard is shown breathing with the destroy ending if you have enough EMS. I do not care about the rest of the evidence. Again, that one little bit shows me that nothing said can be taken at face value.

That's ridiculous.  It's directly from the script.  There's only one ending where Shep lives and that's it.  Oddly, the script never mentions indoctrination anywhere.  You're also reading far too much into "even you are partly synthetic" because, at most, that may imply Shep dies.  He's where your logic fails.  The kid tells Shep HE WILL DIE FOR SURE in the other two endings.  How the hell do you see that as him talking Shep out of Destroy?  Sorry for the shouting but I'm sick of hearing the same arguments over and over.

Yet I could also play the same card and say you're not reading enough into it? See, I will disagree with you, Capeo and Candidate, on this. I know the english language and, by that, I'm not saying that you do not. I am simply saying that the implication is there. I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right either.

Fair enough, you take it to mean the synthetic parts of Shepard will die. I take it to mean Shepard will die as well. Besides, I'm not clear on this, but does Shepard not need those synthetic parts to live?

If you want to play the card that you did regarding the bolded part though, I could counter and say that bit wasn't the part that was meant to deter him from choosing the destroy option. Instead, it is the fact it's mentioned the Geth will die. And you could also see it as the 'child' implying that synthetics have their uses, as Shepard knows, due to his implants therefore making him see that it's not the best option.

Besides. there is no real reason for the child to reference Shepard's synthetic parts, if it would not kill him. Unless the child is trying to make Shepard aware of their benefits as I mentioned above. That is the only reason, other than lying, that it would say it in my mind.

Anyways, unless you can give a good reason as to why the child would say that about Shepard, there's not much  point trying to convince me otherwise as there's not much point in me trying to convince either of you otherwise.

Nothing you said changes the absolute logic of the kid saying two endings are definite death.  The only ending where definitive death isn't outright stated is Destroy.  You have no case.

Not to mention the script makes it abundantly clear Synergy is the reward for a "perfect game".  BW sees Destroy as the selfish ending.  That's why you can actually destroy the earth if you take it with your EMS too low.  It's a punishment for being selfish.  It's also why Synergy is the last of the three endings to unlock.

[mooney6023]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Zhant wrote...

mooney6023 wrote...

Capeo wrote...

mooney6023 wrote...

With 4000+ EMS the Destroy ending is specifically a significant choice. Sure, you get the scene with shepard breathing in the rubble, but you also get a "lived to fight again" flag set in you save file.

You can confirm the existence of this flag with the GIBB ME3 save editor.

I think this supports the existence of post end content and, indirectly, a variation of the Indoc theory. Why have such a flag otherwise?

Or did someone prove that flag was set with other ending variations and I just haven't seen it?

It's evidence you got that ending.  That's it.  You cannot live in the other endings because your physical form is consumed so you're not going to get that flag.

Why bother? That's the question I asked.  Why have the flag?  If this is the end you don't need it.  It's evidence that they will reference that choice in future content IMO.  Whether it's because the Indoc theory is true or not, it's the strongest hint I've seen of future post-end DLC or games.

well, the easiest explaination:

you canoot import a dead shepard, so the flag will be alive when you import from 2 and/or be alive by defult.
and since all ending involves death, then change this variable is just extra work for the programmer.
great victory for laziness. cheer.

I go out of my way to find **** for you guys and you ignore it..

LOOK ITS EXPLAINED - 
http://www.gamespot....ybody-62228429/ 

Explained what?  Just some opinions that the flag is a false positive impacted by the editors origins as an ME2 tool.  GIB certainly didn't chime in with any claritive answer.

There was a nice summarization of @MassEffect tweets in the comments that vaguely hint at post-end content though.

I mean, I really don't understand the anti-indoc theory group anyway?  What does it matter?  So much angst over a prevalent interpretation of the end doen't seem worthwhile.

It's all speculation anyway, but it's seems the only options on this forum are:

* Indoc theory (some plot holes)
* Bad writing (lot's of plot holes)
* Brilliant ending (what's a plot hole?)

I'll just wait it out and base my decision on future support for EA/Bioware on this and any future games post launch reviews.  Bioware already has caused me to move out of the "buy sight unseen crowd" with SWTOR and this game (either they botched the ending or they are trolling for post launch DLC downloads)..

[Xerkysz]

KitePolaris wrote...

Nah, we're all having a good debate. It's actually quite fun.

^ This.

[Candidate 88766]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

You know, for all you people who come in here talking about how this theory is false and that we're overthinking or whatever.

You have a lot of nerve to request new endings with the "Retake" movement when here we are, giving people an out to make the endings better, a reason if you will, and what do you do? You deny that it's even possible! So you hate the endings, but when someone tries to make sense of them to make them better, you STILL hate them?!

I don't get it, do you just hate BioWare in general or what?

The theory doesn't make them better.

There are still lots of holes in the theory (both in lore and logic) and they all to the same outcome - no matter what, Shepard has been indoctrinated. Even in the perfect destroy ending, Shepard's mind has been permanently changed by the indoctrination.

Those of us that want it changed want it changed to something better than the original endings, not something thats even bleaker and still has holes in it.

[Zhant]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

You know, for all you people who come in here talking about how this theory is false and that we're overthinking or whatever.

You have a lot of nerve to request new endings with the "Retake" movement when here we are, giving people an out to make the endings better, a reason if you will, and what do you do? You deny that it's even possible! So you hate the endings, but when someone tries to make sense of them to make them better, you STILL hate them?!

I don't get it, do you just hate BioWare in general or what?

personally, i think the ending is actually pretty awsome.

<_
plus dalatress


plus tali



:mellow:i really should have replayed the ME series from 1.

[Jaze55]

nyogen wrote...

antony.daley wrote...

One point of the OP theory in that the Prothean VI says "Secuirty overridden" he then says something along the lines of "you have come to take me away from the indoctrinated ones" or something similar - If my memory serves me rightly.

Im not for or against the indoctrination theory - For the exact point that it is a theory. All the theory have possible valid points. They all equally have enough flaws in them to leave them as theory and not proof or fact.

He's still dingling that nonsense around ? lol I kindly dismantled that theory for him yesterday but I see he made another thread about that bull crap. His own supporters called him on that bs

http://social.biowar.../index/10185488

Doesn't matter and you keep ignoring me.

If you are right and Shep is indoctrinated what do we have to look forward to? Look I am even giving you more choices then we got in the game. Does Shep

Go insane?
Become a husk?
Become a brain dead vegi that is no longer able to wash and eat for himself?
Kill himself?
Get killed by a friend since he will eventually go crazy or turn into a husk (Like Morenth and Jack)
Space magic saves him with rainbow unicorns and everyone lives happily ever after?


What one do we get to look forward to?

[Capeo]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

You know, for all you people who come in here talking about how this theory is false and that we're overthinking or whatever.

You have a lot of nerve to request new endings with the "Retake" movement when here we are, giving people an out to make the endings better, a reason if you will, and what do you do? You deny that it's even possible! So you hate the endings, but when someone tries to make sense of them to make them better, you STILL hate them?!

I don't get it, do you just hate BioWare in general or what?

We don't want an even worse ending than they already are and that's what IT is.  It's horrific and just as lore breaking.  It also invalidates the two other endings and removes all players choice.  They just need to explain the endings we got better and hopefully add more variations.  

[Tsantilas]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

You know, for all you people who come in here talking about how this theory is false and that we're overthinking or whatever.

You have a lot of nerve to request new endings with the "Retake" movement when here we are, giving people an out to make the endings better, a reason if you will, and what do you do? You deny that it's even possible! So you hate the endings, but when someone tries to make sense of them to make them better, you STILL hate them?!

I don't get it, do you just hate BioWare in general or what?

Because an ending that contradicts established canon (Indoctrination) and leaves an opening for future DLC to correct the ending, is no better than just accepting that the endings are bad writing and still demanding them to be fixed.

The Indoctrination Theory has it's fair share of inconsistencies and would require a large amount of retconning to make sense.  This is why we don't accept it.  I much prefer a new ending that actually stays loyal to the established narrative, than try and bend the current ones to fit.