758 réponses à ce sujet

[Jaze55]

Midnight Eternal wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

The evidence of the CM teasing about the Indoctrination being real should be sufficient, really. And with the fact Shepard wakes up in London after achieving the best EMS score in order to get that ending. Piles of evidence to support Indoctrination is all over, and yet the rejection is for people who cannot fathom such simplicity in lore transitioning into actual the game. That's like you're reading a book, but you never took the liberty to understand the actual story. The vaste difference of understanding, and just reading. The indoctrination was introduced in the first game, and was introduced in the second, and is present still in the third. How it occurs, and to whom it occurs to and why is pretty clear. Shepard is the ultimate victim, and Bioware had more planned on this, but removed the aspect of being completely out of control- > because it's not a fun gameplay mechanic to begin with, and this is true in all genres of game when you're not in control of what your character is doing.

@MassEffected555, you've got no idea what you're talking about, and it seems you're relatively new to the franchise. I'd recommend reading through the Mass Effect Codex to learn more in-depth about Indoctrination for starters. Shepard has been consistantly been renowned for having "remarkbly strong mind" (Stated by Liara in ME1, if you ever played it?) and it's possible that Shepard has been able to fend off Indoctrination attempts up until the very point where he is close-to mortally wounded, and that's when the ultimate trial of either succeed or fail begings. This is all very simple stuff, and Bioware is probably baffled over how simple the community is, they probably expected more of their consumers. :-)

This is where you seem to be missing the lore, imo. No one has overcome Indoctrination in the ME universe as far I am aware. Shepard should be no exception. He is a physically human as anyone else *EDIT(aside from implants which would not likely prevent the process)*. And Indoctrination physiologically alters the victims brain with a signal, so willpower would not stop it.

I like how you say I am new to the series, FYI I have literally 27 saves I need to play though so sorry but you couldnt be more off the mark. As a matter of fact I think its YOU who are new to the series because you obviously have never heard of Saren and Benezia and everyone else that has been indoctrinated and ALL the game lore saying you cant not beat indoc. There is no "trying" they just do it.

So really I think you might need to do more research the bud. 


Edit- I am talking to the first quote, not the 2nd guy I quoted by mistake. 

Modifié par MassEffected555, 19 mars 2012 - 07:08 .

[Primula Nightfall]

Grusome11 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

You know, for all you people who come in here talking about how this theory is false and that we're overthinking or whatever.

You have a lot of nerve to request new endings with the "Retake" movement when here we are, giving people an out to make the endings better, a reason if you will, and what do you do? You deny that it's even possible! So you hate the endings, but when someone tries to make sense of them to make them better, you STILL hate them?!

I don't get it, do you just hate BioWare in general or what?

The theory doesn't make them better.

There are still lots of holes in the theory (both in lore and logic) and they all to the same outcome - no matter what, Shepard has been indoctrinated. Even in the perfect destroy ending, Shepard's mind has been permanently changed by the indoctrination.

Those of us that want it changed want it changed to something better than the original endings, not something thats even bleaker and still has holes in it.

Please point out the holes in indoc theory, because I don't think you have. There are some things that are not explained, but IT is the best explanation so far for huge plot holes I see if the star child is telling the truth. The most obvious one being "I created synthetics to kill you to prevent you from being killed by synthetics."

And again, if Shepard is able to resist Reaper indoc why would his mind be changed? He resisted it. He may or may not be changed by resisting, but is not plausible that he can function long enough to save the galaxy?

Well, I support the IT theory (I admit, mostly because of Shepard eyes when you chose green or blue. I mean, THAT says something that you can't ignore). 

Still, I posted a little while ago a theory about the Star Child (but it got ignored).

"
I don't get why it's nonsense. The Star Child never said he was "good". He just said he wants order, and he does not like chaos. He never said he did this to protect people. He simply dislikes how things would turn out, so created the reapers to use as giant hoovers and clean up the galaxy before the filth spreads. He does not care about people dying. 
He may say that to Shepard, probably trying to bring him to his side, but I believe he simply does not care. He's a being so far different than humans that we cannot comprehend his motives (and this is exactly what Sovereign says). "

[Grusome11]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I still haven't heard anything about what happens to Shepard after the Indoc?

So what happens after does he:

Go insane
Become no longer able to take care of himself
kill himself
have a freind kill him
gets locked in a psych ward
turn into a husk

because according to the games laws and mechanics these are the only possible outcomes.

SO, what one do we have to look forward to for our beloved Shepard?

He is not indoctrinated if you choose the destroy option. Otherwise he is indoctrinated. I don't know what happens after he is indoctrinated, they don't give us any info.

Indoctrination never fails througout the course of the series, if it does on Shepard it breaking all the rules and then space magic is valid.

And they do give info, again stated clearly in the games description of indoc. I posted it already I am not posting it again, google Indoc Process, read the wiki and then realize you are wrong. 

Third time I have posted this. Sheppard is the HERO. If anyone can do something no one else has, its the hero of a story. Sheppard has come back from the dead and saved the galaxy twice from the Reapers. He is the hero. He is supposed to break the rules. Its the basis of story.

Anyways, the codex represents the info on things that the galaxy or you know. It is not the be all, final information.

If it is, please go back to ME2 and show me in the codex that the Reapers are actually controlled/created by a starchild.

The codex represents what we know about the universe, not what is true about it. That said, if the writers drastically change what is in the codex, fans would get upset and start saying "Space Magic", but that does not mean the writers cannot bend what they have told us so far.

I cannot understand why you cannot get this. It is a common technique used in movies, books, etc all the time.

[Syrellaris]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Syrellaris wrote...

I have come to the conclusion that is the theory behind the ending. There is simply to much evidence and facts to state otherwise. The story ain't finished yet and I am gonne wait for the ending that I am sure is soon to come more shepard against!

Stargazer : "Tell me a nother story of the shepard!"

Yes and then it tell you to "Continue the adventure through DLC"

Anothe story about Shepard can mean ME1 or 2 or a Take Back Omega DLC or a pacman DLC. 

But of course it will be twisted to only mean Shep is indoctrinated just so it supports your theory. 

Please, as if the "movement" cause has probably cause to be offended. You either have no facts or evidence backing you up with anything relating to this being the final ending.

Once again read all my posts as I have given evidence using in game laws and mechanics to prove you wrong, If you are to lzy to read thru it then don't bother me again. 

ANd hey just and FYI I am 100% behind the Take Back Mass Effect movement but I am 100% agaist your little cult trying to "PROVE" to everyone how right you are.

Right. By being the one that is rude and calling other people names. Your posts show zero substantial evidence. Also this is not a cult. I would really lke you to refrain from calling things what they are not. Insulting people regarding that wont help either.

You quoted me and say I used the DLC reason as a support for the indoctrination theory, which I did not. The indoctrination has enough substantial and valid Facts and Evidence that it is true, in the the last 2 Mass Effect games already. I merely used the DLC line to point out that >> I << am waiting for future DLC releases to ME3.

You are acting like a child thinking, without evidence mind you or facts, that the current ending is the final ending and you are the one trying to "Prove" everyone you are right.

[Jaze55]

Grusome11 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I still haven't heard anything about what happens to Shepard after the Indoc?

So what happens after does he:

Go insane
Become no longer able to take care of himself
kill himself
have a freind kill him
gets locked in a psych ward
turn into a husk

because according to the games laws and mechanics these are the only possible outcomes.

SO, what one do we have to look forward to for our beloved Shepard?

He is not indoctrinated if you choose the destroy option. Otherwise he is indoctrinated. I don't know what happens after he is indoctrinated, they don't give us any info.

Indoctrination never fails througout the course of the series, if it does on Shepard it breaking all the rules and then space magic is valid.

And they do give info, again stated clearly in the games description of indoc. I posted it already I am not posting it again, google Indoc Process, read the wiki and then realize you are wrong. 

Third time I have posted this. Sheppard is the HERO. If anyone can do something no one else has, its the hero of a story. Sheppard has come back from the dead and saved the galaxy twice from the Reapers. He is the hero. He is supposed to break the rules. Its the basis of story.

Anyways, the codex represents the info on things that the galaxy or you know. It is not the be all, final information.

If it is, please go back to ME2 and show me in the codex that the Reapers are actually controlled/created by a starchild.

The codex represents what we know about the universe, not what is true about it. That said, if the writers drastically change what is in the codex, fans would get upset and start saying "Space Magic", but that does not mean the writers cannot bend what they have told us so far.

I cannot understand why you cannot get this. It is a common technique used in movies, books, etc all the time.

And this will be the third time I am telling you this.

If they allow the laws of the game to be broken in the last 10 minutes then space magic and everything that happened is valid since its OK to break game mechanics and lore in the last 10 minutes of the game according to you. I don't know why you don't get THAT. 

Actually I do know. Because it would make your theory invalid and your mind can't handle that. 

[Midnight Eternal]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Midnight Eternal wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

The evidence of the CM teasing about the Indoctrination being real should be sufficient, really. And with the fact Shepard wakes up in London after achieving the best EMS score in order to get that ending. Piles of evidence to support Indoctrination is all over, and yet the rejection is for people who cannot fathom such simplicity in lore transitioning into actual the game. That's like you're reading a book, but you never took the liberty to understand the actual story. The vaste difference of understanding, and just reading. The indoctrination was introduced in the first game, and was introduced in the second, and is present still in the third. How it occurs, and to whom it occurs to and why is pretty clear. Shepard is the ultimate victim, and Bioware had more planned on this, but removed the aspect of being completely out of control- > because it's not a fun gameplay mechanic to begin with, and this is true in all genres of game when you're not in control of what your character is doing.

@MassEffected555, you've got no idea what you're talking about, and it seems you're relatively new to the franchise. I'd recommend reading through the Mass Effect Codex to learn more in-depth about Indoctrination for starters. Shepard has been consistantly been renowned for having "remarkbly strong mind" (Stated by Liara in ME1, if you ever played it?) and it's possible that Shepard has been able to fend off Indoctrination attempts up until the very point where he is close-to mortally wounded, and that's when the ultimate trial of either succeed or fail begings. This is all very simple stuff, and Bioware is probably baffled over how simple the community is, they probably expected more of their consumers. :-)

This is where you seem to be missing the lore, imo. No one has overcome Indoctrination in the ME universe as far I am aware. Shepard should be no exception. He is a physically human as anyone else *EDIT(aside from implants which would not likely prevent the process)*. And Indoctrination physiologically alters the victims brain with a signal, so willpower would not stop it.

I like how you say I am new to the series, FYI I have literally 27 saves I need to play though so sorry but you couldnt be more off the mark. As a matter of fact I think its YOU who are new to the series because you obviously have never heard of Saren and Benezia and everyone else that has been indoctrinated and ALL the game lore saying you cant not beat indoc. There is no "trying" they just do it.

So really I think you might need to do more research the bud. 


Edit- I am talking to the first quote, not the 2nd guy I quoted by mistake. 

Okay I was about to be like, what????? I was just backing you up there in a way. XD

[Bane]

MassEffected555 wrote...

See BENEZIA... 

Not 100% sure but have to believe Shep was rebuilt using reaper tech. so it would make it easier to indoc him.

What about her? She had been under Reaper indoctrination for who knows how long before we met her in the game. The fact that she was able to resist for as long as she did only proves that indoctrination can be resisted. Resistance may be futile as long as the Reapers exist and even the strongest minds may succomb eventually, but who knows what is possible if the Reapers are destroyed part way through the process.

Modifié par Bane_v2, 19 mars 2012 - 07:16 .

[j78]

 idoctrination is true it just got cut from the game  .    The sequence would have seen the player lose control of Commander Shepard, revealing that he or she had actually been indoctrinated by the Reapers. This ending was eventually cut for technical reasons, as the team was having a hard time making the gameplay mechanic work alongside dialogue choices  http://www.gameranx....versial-ending/

[Grusome11]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I still haven't heard anything about what happens to Shepard after the Indoc?

So what happens after does he:

Go insane
Become no longer able to take care of himself
kill himself
have a freind kill him
gets locked in a psych ward
turn into a husk

because according to the games laws and mechanics these are the only possible outcomes.

SO, what one do we have to look forward to for our beloved Shepard?

He is not indoctrinated if you choose the destroy option. Otherwise he is indoctrinated. I don't know what happens after he is indoctrinated, they don't give us any info.

If he's not indoctrinated, then why is he hallucinating?

Indoctrination causes permanent changes to the subject's mind. This cannot be undone with willpower.

As I said in another post, the codex is nto the final say. It represents what we know, not what is true. The writers can bend those "rules" to present further info.

This is not to say that IT is true. I think it is the most logical theory and fixes a lot of the plot holes, but you may be right. But you should at least acknowledge that there is enough wiggle room for the writers to exploit to support the theory that Sheppard is not indoc'd, they try to do it, it can fail, he might be special enough to reisist, or he may be able to go on after to defeat the Reapers.

Remember that BW has stated that they want a bittersweet ending. Could that ending be that he is indoc'd but can resist long enough to destroy the Reapers, then he blows his brains out?

I don't know, but I could write it so it seemed plausible.

[Malanek]

ShaneP wrote...

If they'd planned to have Shepard indoctrinated, it would have been made FAR more obvious. It doesn't really matter what Bioware actually say, indoctrinationists have been interpreting it as Bioware saying that shep was indoctrinated. It's becoming like a religious cult.

Shepard shoots anderson because the Illusive man tells him to. How much plainer and more obvious can you get? This doesn't mean the indoctrination theory is true, that depends on whether the Reapers proceed to indoctrinate him as well and whether the god child scene is as it seems.

[Jaze55]

Bane_v2 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

See BENEZIA... 

Not 100% sure but have to believe Shep was rebuilt using reaper tech. so it would make it easier to indoc him.

What about her? She had been under Reaper indoctrination for who knows how long before we met her in the game. The fact that she was able to resist for as long as she did only proves that indoctrination can be resisted. Resistance may be futile as long as the Reapers exist and even the strongest minds may succomb eventually, but who knows what is possible if the Reapers are destroyed part way through the process.

Matriarch Benezia[/b] is a very powerful asari biotic and spiritual leader among her people. She is also Liara T'Soni's mother, though the two have not spoken in years. When the evidence that provedSaren Arterius was responsible for the Eden Prime attack also proved Benezia was working alongside him, it surprised those who knew her, as Benezia's actions seemed to be completely out of character. 


Pretty sure an old asari who is the spiritual leader of her people, and that has been good for oh 800ish or more years has a pretty dam strong will. And she didn't resist lol. She did for 2 minutes to kill herself, thats about it. Like everyone else who has been indoctrinated. 

So again, the theory leave only a few possibilities for Shep

Become a husk
suicide
brain dead
insane
locked in a psych ward
killed my a friend

GOOD stuff. 

[ArkkAngel007]

Candidate 88766 wrote...


-There is no lore indicating that indoctrination causes hallucinations of entire locations and events. The highest level of indoctrination leads only to hearing alien voices in your mind, and by that point the Reapers have full control over the subjects body.

-There is no evidence whatsoever throughout any of the 3 games that Shepard is even slightly indoctrinated - there has never been evidence of him hearing a buzzing noise of him having feelins of being watched. This means he went into the final battle either not indoctrinated at all, or having been so slightly indoctrinated as to exhibit none of the symptoms. In either case, indoctrination does not happen anywhere near as rapidly as the theory requires.

-Indoctrination cannot be stopped through simple willpower. Indoctrination permanently changes your mind - willpower can't undo that.

-Why would Shepard imagine the same cutscene regardless of whether he had broken free of indoctrinated or had become fully indoctrinated?

Then of course there is common sense;

-Bioware wouldn't release the concluding part of the ME trilogy without its real ending.

-Given the backlash over Origin, and the fact that BF3 failed to be as successful as they wanted, EA is going to play it safe with ME3. They need it to be a hit. They aren't going to ask Bioware to withold the ending as DLC, and Bioware wouldn't do that on their own, because the backlash would be volcanic.

-Given how bad the fan, and indeed media backlash has been, Bioware would have said something by now if the theory was true. They wouldn't put up with this much bad press for the sake of basically saying 'April fool's, here's the real ending' to a handful more fans. Not to mention that they have come out and said they're considering changing the endings, which they wouldn't do if they had plans for continuation - a key point of the theory.

-The game directly tells that player that Shepard has just ended the Reaper threat. Not that he went on to end it later, or that someone else ended it, but that during what you just played the Reaper threat was ended by Shepard.

-Mass Effect 2. Derelict Reaper caused physical hallucinations.  Also, Shepard is unconscious.  Everything taking place is being suggested to Shepad.  Shepard is just providing the actual imagery.

-Arrival.  Work was done on Shepard and had "come close" to completion.  What work was this?  How did it affect Shepard?  Everyone else was that close to Object Rho suffered indoctrination.  Did Shepard emerge completely whole from that event?

-Where has it been said willpower cannot stop Indoctrination?  Willpower is a resistance, not a surefire way of stopping it.  But Shepard's case is unique.  What the outcome would be we don't know.

-Shepard provides closure to his mind with follow-up imagery to the decision made.  It would explain the simplistic simularity more than just stooping to the baseless "lazyness" meme.

As for your reasons of common sense, the first bit I can agree on, though EA continues to push Origin as a requirement and make poor decisions regarding their consumers.  The second reasoning is for two reasons.  First is the NDAs, which apply to everyone (including management) to "protect" the IP.  Second is that PAXE is right around the corner, which will have a strong Mass Effect presence.  It seems odd that a game gets that much attention at an event that has been utilized greatly as a pre-E3 promotional event.  Finally, the game lets you believe you defeated the Reapers, so why tell you otherwise at the post-ending screen?

[Jaze55]

Grusome11 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I still haven't heard anything about what happens to Shepard after the Indoc?

So what happens after does he:

Go insane
Become no longer able to take care of himself
kill himself
have a freind kill him
gets locked in a psych ward
turn into a husk

because according to the games laws and mechanics these are the only possible outcomes.

SO, what one do we have to look forward to for our beloved Shepard?

He is not indoctrinated if you choose the destroy option. Otherwise he is indoctrinated. I don't know what happens after he is indoctrinated, they don't give us any info.

If he's not indoctrinated, then why is he hallucinating?

Indoctrination causes permanent changes to the subject's mind. This cannot be undone with willpower.

As I said in another post, the codex is nto the final say. It represents what we know, not what is true. The writers can bend those "rules" to present further info.

This is not to say that IT is true. I think it is the most logical theory and fixes a lot of the plot holes, but you may be right. But you should at least acknowledge that there is enough wiggle room for the writers to exploit to support the theory that Sheppard is not indoc'd, they try to do it, it can fail, he might be special enough to reisist, or he may be able to go on after to defeat the Reapers.

Remember that BW has stated that they want a bittersweet ending. Could that ending be that he is indoc'd but can resist long enough to destroy the Reapers, then he blows his brains out?

I don't know, but I could write it so it seemed plausible.

ANSWER ME - WHY can they ONLY bend the rules for Shepard when it supports you theory but when they bend the rules with Space  magic its NOT ok.

AGAIN because you ONLY look at things in a way that support YOU. 

[Candidate 88766]

Grusome11 wrote...

As I said in another post, the codex is nto the final say. It represents what we know, not what is true. The writers can bend those "rules" to present further info.

This is not to say that IT is true. I think it is the most logical theory and fixes a lot of the plot holes, but you may be right. But you should at least acknowledge that there is enough wiggle room for the writers to exploit to support the theory that Sheppard is not indoc'd, they try to do it, it can fail, he might be special enough to reisist, or he may be able to go on after to defeat the Reapers.

Remember that BW has stated that they want a bittersweet ending. Could that ending be that he is indoc'd but can resist long enough to destroy the Reapers, then he blows his brains out?

I don't know, but I could write it so it seemed plausible.

If you have to bend or disregard the lore to get the theory to work, you know its not correct.

The sole reason the codex exists is so Bioware can impart exposition to the player without having long, drawn-out conversations. No-one wants to listen to a five minute conversation about the exact details of indoctrination, so they put it in the codex instead so players who want to know about it can read about it.

And if characters like Saren or TIM can't stop indoctrination, then why should Shepard be able to?

[ArkkAngel007]

j78 wrote...

 idoctrination is true it just got cut from the game  .    The sequence would have seen the player lose control of Commander Shepard, revealing that he or she had actually been indoctrinated by the Reapers. This ending was eventually cut for technical reasons, as the team was having a hard time making the gameplay mechanic work alongside dialogue choices  http://www.gameranx....versial-ending/

The specific sequence was cut due to technical limitations.  That doesn't mean the idea was dropped completely.

[Malanek]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

This is a quote from Bioware:

"We are aware that there are concerns about a recent post from this account regarding the ending of the game. In this post it was stated that at this time we do not have plans to change the ending.

We would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending.

Your feedback and opinions are of the utmost importance to us. We apologize for any confusion this has caused. Our top priority regarding this discussion is to keep communication with you, our loyal fans, open and productive."

It doesn't get much plainer than that. The endings are what they are. There was no planned continuation - Bioware never left ME3 on a cliffhanger to finish it later. The consider the endings to be what they are, and are still deciding whether to change them. Not on whether to continue them, but whether to change them. The endings are the endings of the story, not this cliffhanger that the theory relies on them being.

There are no plans to continue the story. The believed the endings of ME3 to be just that - the endings. And now they are deciding whether to change them.

This is what has made me more convinced the indoctrination theory is not true after believing in it. Yes it is somewhat ambiguios but if they had something lined up I just can't see them saying those words. My assumption now is that even the writers didn't have something concrete. They just left it open for not only the players but for further content to be written. 

[Aanlen]

Captain Shakespeare wrote...

Let's clarify. No one is right, no one is wrong. Not yet, at least. This is a textbook case of Shrodinger's cat. Neither side has adequate proof to state with certainty that they are correct. So until an official statement is made, you're arguing a moot point.

This forever. I for one HOPE the indoc theory is right, because the ending is so bad that the only explanation in my mind is that it must be a dream. Even when it probably is just completely ASS writing.

[S Atomeha]

MassEffected555 wrote...

S Atomeha wrote...

I support Indoc, i also support Shepard if indoctrinated killing himself after beating the reapers. sort of as a last casualty(after saying goodbye to his friends, and with a good standing of where the races develop from there).

Sorry but if he was indoctrinated he wouldn't consider those his friends anymore and would try to kill them, according to in game lore and mechanics. Just like what happened to Saren, Benezia, Doctor Project Rho in Arrivel.... and pretty much every single other person who has ever been indoctrinated in the game since its inception according to the games laws and mechanics. 

Unless of course, Shepard is superman. 

thought he was space jesus...
but seriously, fine shepard somehow ends reaper threat(if we go by potent indoc. starting when he's knocked unconcious), but indoc=strong he kills himself(or at least choose to...), we get cinematic that answers what happens to everyone ala dao.

[SirCroft]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I still haven't heard anything about what happens to Shepard after the Indoc?

So what happens after does he:

Go insane
Become no longer able to take care of himself
kill himself
have a freind kill him
gets locked in a psych ward
turn into a husk

because according to the games laws and mechanics these are the only possible outcomes.

SO, what one do we have to look forward to for our beloved Shepard?

He is not indoctrinated if you choose the destroy option. Otherwise he is indoctrinated. I don't know what happens after he is indoctrinated, they don't give us any info.

If he's not indoctrinated, then why is he hallucinating?

Indoctrination causes permanent changes to the subject's mind. This cannot be undone with willpower.

As I said in another post, the codex is nto the final say. It represents what we know, not what is true. The writers can bend those "rules" to present further info.

This is not to say that IT is true. I think it is the most logical theory and fixes a lot of the plot holes, but you may be right. But you should at least acknowledge that there is enough wiggle room for the writers to exploit to support the theory that Sheppard is not indoc'd, they try to do it, it can fail, he might be special enough to reisist, or he may be able to go on after to defeat the Reapers.

Remember that BW has stated that they want a bittersweet ending. Could that ending be that he is indoc'd but can resist long enough to destroy the Reapers, then he blows his brains out?

I don't know, but I could write it so it seemed plausible.

ANSWER ME - WHY can they ONLY bend the rules for Shepard when it supports you theory but when they bend the rules with Space  magic its NOT ok.

AGAIN because you ONLY look at things in a way that support YOU. 

Well, I think tweaking how indoctrination works isn't as bad as negating a huge chunk of the trilogy and players' decisions through space magic.

Modifié par SirCroft, 19 mars 2012 - 07:24 .

[Jaze55]

SirCroft wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I still haven't heard anything about what happens to Shepard after the Indoc?

So what happens after does he:

Go insane
Become no longer able to take care of himself
kill himself
have a freind kill him
gets locked in a psych ward
turn into a husk

because according to the games laws and mechanics these are the only possible outcomes.

SO, what one do we have to look forward to for our beloved Shepard?

He is not indoctrinated if you choose the destroy option. Otherwise he is indoctrinated. I don't know what happens after he is indoctrinated, they don't give us any info.

If he's not indoctrinated, then why is he hallucinating?

Indoctrination causes permanent changes to the subject's mind. This cannot be undone with willpower.

As I said in another post, the codex is nto the final say. It represents what we know, not what is true. The writers can bend those "rules" to present further info.

This is not to say that IT is true. I think it is the most logical theory and fixes a lot of the plot holes, but you may be right. But you should at least acknowledge that there is enough wiggle room for the writers to exploit to support the theory that Sheppard is not indoc'd, they try to do it, it can fail, he might be special enough to reisist, or he may be able to go on after to defeat the Reapers.

Remember that BW has stated that they want a bittersweet ending. Could that ending be that he is indoc'd but can resist long enough to destroy the Reapers, then he blows his brains out?

I don't know, but I could write it so it seemed plausible.

ANSWER ME - WHY can they ONLY bend the rules for Shepard when it supports you theory but when they bend the rules with Space  magic its NOT ok.

AGAIN because you ONLY look at things in a way that support YOU. 

Well, I think tweaking how indoctrination works isn't as bad as negating a huge chunk of the trilogy and players' decisions through space magic.

No sorry its not "tweaking" it's completely breaking every mechanic they ever set up in the history of the game. 

Modifié par MassEffected555, 19 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[ArkkAngel007]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

As I said in another post, the codex is nto the final say. It represents what we know, not what is true. The writers can bend those "rules" to present further info.

This is not to say that IT is true. I think it is the most logical theory and fixes a lot of the plot holes, but you may be right. But you should at least acknowledge that there is enough wiggle room for the writers to exploit to support the theory that Sheppard is not indoc'd, they try to do it, it can fail, he might be special enough to reisist, or he may be able to go on after to defeat the Reapers.

Remember that BW has stated that they want a bittersweet ending. Could that ending be that he is indoc'd but can resist long enough to destroy the Reapers, then he blows his brains out?

I don't know, but I could write it so it seemed plausible.

If you have to bend or disregard the lore to get the theory to work, you know its not correct.

The sole reason the codex exists is so Bioware can impart exposition to the player without having long, drawn-out conversations. No-one wants to listen to a five minute conversation about the exact details of indoctrination, so they put it in the codex instead so players who want to know about it can read about it.

And if characters like Saren or TIM can't stop indoctrination, then why should Shepard be able to?

Yet you guys saying space-magic is valid?

There is no need to bend the rules.  We as the player haven't experienced indoctrination, and no one encountered in the game or lore has been in this exact situation with these exact circumstances.  It's not up to us to write that off because it all wasn't spoon-fed to us all from the beginning of ME1.

[Grusome11]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I still haven't heard anything about what happens to Shepard after the Indoc?

So what happens after does he:

Go insane
Become no longer able to take care of himself
kill himself
have a freind kill him
gets locked in a psych ward
turn into a husk

because according to the games laws and mechanics these are the only possible outcomes.

SO, what one do we have to look forward to for our beloved Shepard?

He is not indoctrinated if you choose the destroy option. Otherwise he is indoctrinated. I don't know what happens after he is indoctrinated, they don't give us any info.

If he's not indoctrinated, then why is he hallucinating?

Indoctrination causes permanent changes to the subject's mind. This cannot be undone with willpower.

Go find in this thread, and I put it twice about when you start the game and the PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE 

Its clearly explains Shep has PTSD right there, which is why he is having NIGHTMARES not Indoc dreams. 

edit- and you are right it IS permanant which makes this theory even more abysmal. 

HUSK Shepard in ME4

He could be seeing things due to their attempts to indoc him. Or they do indoc him and he is able to overcome it with willpower. Just because you or the codex or not one else has done it, doesn't me Shep cannot. Remember, Shep is the hero, he does things no one else can. Whether resisting the Reaper indoc is within his abilities, I don't know, but it is within the realm of what the wirters might do.

As for the dream kid, it could be PTSD or indoc, we don't know. The point is that it can be used to support the indoc theory, which is a theory, not a proven fact. Even if the dreams are PTSD, it doesn't mean Reapers are not trying to indoc Shep. Or perhaps they are using his PTSD to try and indoc him.

See how I did that?

[Jaze55]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

As I said in another post, the codex is nto the final say. It represents what we know, not what is true. The writers can bend those "rules" to present further info.

This is not to say that IT is true. I think it is the most logical theory and fixes a lot of the plot holes, but you may be right. But you should at least acknowledge that there is enough wiggle room for the writers to exploit to support the theory that Sheppard is not indoc'd, they try to do it, it can fail, he might be special enough to reisist, or he may be able to go on after to defeat the Reapers.

Remember that BW has stated that they want a bittersweet ending. Could that ending be that he is indoc'd but can resist long enough to destroy the Reapers, then he blows his brains out?

I don't know, but I could write it so it seemed plausible.

If you have to bend or disregard the lore to get the theory to work, you know its not correct.

The sole reason the codex exists is so Bioware can impart exposition to the player without having long, drawn-out conversations. No-one wants to listen to a five minute conversation about the exact details of indoctrination, so they put it in the codex instead so players who want to know about it can read about it.

And if characters like Saren or TIM can't stop indoctrination, then why should Shepard be able to?

Yet you guys saying space-magic is valid?

There is no need to bend the rules.  We as the player haven't experienced indoctrination, and no one encountered in the game or lore has been in this exact situation with these exact circumstances.  It's not up to us to write that off because it all wasn't spoon-fed to us all from the beginning of ME1.

Indoctrination is the same for Shepard as it is for every single other person in the history of Mass Effect that has ever been indoctrinated according the the games set laws and mechanics.

EDIT- No space magic is NOT ok. That's why we started the Take Back Mass Effect movement. The Indoc Theory crowd seems to think this crusade is to get the Indoc Theory put in or you wouldnt have threads titled. "Undeniable Proof Beyond A Shadow of a Doubt Shepard Is In Fact Indoctrinated And You Will Never Prove Us Wrong Because We Are Geniuses And The People Who Don't Get Its Are Peons"

Modifié par MassEffected555, 19 mars 2012 - 07:28 .

[Cadence of the Planes]

I'm pretty sure it's indoctrination

[Rusty0918]

Bittersweet could mean that the galaxy is in horrible shape after defeating the Reapers. Heck, it's going to be trouble to rebuild. Earth is REALLY shot up after it.

Indoctrination makes sense. Space Magic doesn't.

If you look in the C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Origin Games\\Mass Effect 3\\BIOGame\\Movies, you'll see two files: End03_Shepard_Alive_Fem.bik and End03_Shepard_Alive_Male.bik. And the scene where you see him or her breathing in the rubble suggests an attempt at indoctrination.

Again, the clues strongly support the Indoc. Theory.