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[Bane]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Bane_v2 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

See BENEZIA... 

Not 100% sure but have to believe Shep was rebuilt using reaper tech. so it would make it easier to indoc him.

What about her? She had been under Reaper indoctrination for who knows how long before we met her in the game. The fact that she was able to resist for as long as she did only proves that indoctrination can be resisted. Resistance may be futile as long as the Reapers exist and even the strongest minds may succomb eventually, but who knows what is possible if the Reapers are destroyed part way through the process.

Pretty sure an old asari who is the spiritual leader of her people, and that has been good for oh 800ish or more years has a pretty dam strong will. And she didn't resist lol. She did for 2 minutes to kill herself, thats about it. Like everyone else who has been indoctrinated. 

So again, the theory leave only a few possibilities for Shep

Become a husk
suicide
brain dead
insane
locked in a psych ward
killed my a friend

GOOD stuff. 

Please read my posts again as they attempt to explain that those outcomes you keep reposting are not the only possibilites. You've made a point, we've counterpointed. Reposting the same point again doesn't add anything to the discussion.

[Jaze55]

Rusty0918 wrote...

What Xerkysz said was this...Shepard is not indoctrinated in the dream. Through the dream, Harbinger is TRYING to indoctrinate Shepard by distorting reality. Shepard's got an iron will, and he/she wouldn't take indoctrination that easily. Accepting Control or Synthesis means accepting indoctrination, while accepting destroy means you reject it, henceforth him waking up in the rubble if you have high enough EMS. He's not yet indoctrinated when he's dreaming.

Some of these attempted debunkers fail to grasp one thing: Indoctrination is one of the key cornerstones of how threatening the Reapers turly are. Garrus said something about Crucible being a test of wills or something like that. This end sequence seems like it.. Yeah it might mess with some of the game mechanics.

Now...that being said, if I'm wrong, then BioWare really does need to change that ending. If I'm right, still of course they need some serious closure.

Yes but according to in game lore and mecanics there is no "trying" when if comes to indoctrination there is only indoctrinating someone. So it would break all lore and mechanics if Shepard can do it which then would allow the space magic.

[SirCroft]

[quote]MassEffected555 wrote...

[quote]SirCroft wrote...

[quote]MassEffected555 wrote...

[quote]SirCroft wrote...

[quote]MassEffected555 wrote...

[quote]SirCroft wrote...

[quote]MassEffected555 wrote...

[quote]Grusome11 wrote...

[quote]Candidate 88766 wrote...

[quote]Grusome11 wrote...

[quote]MassEffected555 wrote...

I still haven't heard anything about what happens to Shepard after the Indoc?

So what happens after does he:

Go insane
Become no longer able to take care of himself
kill himself
have a freind kill him
gets locked in a psych ward
turn into a husk

because according to the games laws and mechanics these are the only possible outcomes.

SO, what one do we have to look forward to for our beloved Shepard?[/quote]

He is not indoctrinated if you choose the destroy option. Otherwise he is indoctrinated. I don't know what happens after he is indoctrinated, they don't give us any info.

[/quote]If he's not indoctrinated, then why is he hallucinating?

Indoctrination causes permanent changes to the subject's mind. This cannot be undone with willpower.

[/quote]

As I said in another post, the codex is nto the final say. It represents what we know, not what is true. The writers can bend those "rules" to present further info.

This is not to say that IT is true. I think it is the most logical theory and fixes a lot of the plot holes, but you may be right. But you should at least acknowledge that there is enough wiggle room for the writers to exploit to support the theory that Sheppard is not indoc'd, they try to do it, it can fail, he might be special enough to reisist, or he may be able to go on after to defeat the Reapers.

Remember that BW has stated that they want a bittersweet ending. Could that ending be that he is indoc'd but can resist long enough to destroy the Reapers, then he blows his brains out?

I don't know, but I could write it so it seemed plausible.

[/quote]

ANSWER ME - WHY can they ONLY bend the rules for Shepard when it supports you theory but when they bend the rules with Space  magic its NOT ok.

AGAIN because you ONLY look at things in a way that support YOU. 

[/quote]
Well, I think tweaking how indoctrination works isn't as bad as negating a huge chunk of the trilogy and players' decisions through space magic.

[/quote]

No sorry its not "tweaking" it's completely breaking every mechanic they ever set up in the history of the game. 

[/quote]

What if the only part where Shepard is being indoctrinated is after being hit by Harbinger's beam? He certainly didn't stay there for enough time to become a mindless slave, he could still break free from it while Harbinger was attempting to control him for the first time.
I think the relation between his dreams and the scenario around him when he wakes up (The three that wasn't there, for instance) has more to do with how Shepard's mind is picturing the indoctrination like he was dreaming, not that his dreams were induced by indoctrination.
[/quote]

Everyone else in the history of Mass Effect was only able to break free for a few minutes to kill themselves and allowing Shepard to be the only one, ever, to be able to do that elevates him to a status above the starkid and all space magic combined. 

[/quote]

If people usuall take a week to become fully indoctrinated, why would the same happen to Shepard in 20 minutes? Or even hours, if you're willing to consider how dreams usually work, it's still wouldn't be enough to turn Shepard into a mindless slave.
The cases your point out of people being able to break free for a few minutes to kill themselves are people that were indoctrinated for far more time than Shepard would have after being hit by Harbinger's beam.

[/quote]

Right he would  have been like Saren and Benezia thinking they were doing good but actually doing the Reapers will.

At no time does Shepard do anything to help the Reapers. 

[/quote]

Of course, because Harbinger's first attempt to indoctrinate Shepard happens right after he's hit by Harbinger's beam. From that moment on, everything you play could be in Shepard's mind, the process of indoctrination happening as you play. This is when the player's final decision steps in; choosing Control, Shepard is thinking like TIM, believing that he can control the Reapers. Shepard gives in to indoctrination. Choosing Synthesis, Shepard is thinking like Saren, believing that merging synthetic and organic life is the way to salvation. Shepard gives in to indoctrination. But choosing destroy, sticking to his motives and goals even though everything tells him it's going to be the worst possible outcome (which is also the only ending that shows Shepard "surviving"), Shepard resists and fights the indoctrination, finally breaking free.

Modifié par SirCroft, 19 mars 2012 - 07:54 .

[Jaze55]

Bane_v2 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Bane_v2 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

See BENEZIA... 

Not 100% sure but have to believe Shep was rebuilt using reaper tech. so it would make it easier to indoc him.

What about her? She had been under Reaper indoctrination for who knows how long before we met her in the game. The fact that she was able to resist for as long as she did only proves that indoctrination can be resisted. Resistance may be futile as long as the Reapers exist and even the strongest minds may succomb eventually, but who knows what is possible if the Reapers are destroyed part way through the process.

Pretty sure an old asari who is the spiritual leader of her people, and that has been good for oh 800ish or more years has a pretty dam strong will. And she didn't resist lol. She did for 2 minutes to kill herself, thats about it. Like everyone else who has been indoctrinated. 

So again, the theory leave only a few possibilities for Shep

Become a husk
suicide
brain dead
insane
locked in a psych ward
killed my a friend

GOOD stuff. 

Please read my posts again as they attempt to explain that those outcomes you keep reposting are not the only possibilites. You've made a point, we've counterpointed. Reposting the same point again doesn't add anything to the discussion.

I did and according to in game lore and mechanics those are THE only possible outcomes for someone that has been indoctrinated. It is irreversable once it happens, and they do not try to do it they always succeed. According to in game lore and mechanics. 

EDIT- and where are you getting Benezia resisted for "as long as she did"? She was helping Saren the entire time we hear about her, she only resisted for like 2 minutes when she killed herself? Did you even play ME1?

Modifié par MassEffected555, 19 mars 2012 - 07:56 .

[Grusome11]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I still haven't heard anything about what happens to Shepard after the Indoc?

So what happens after does he:

Go insane
Become no longer able to take care of himself
kill himself
have a freind kill him
gets locked in a psych ward
turn into a husk

because according to the games laws and mechanics these are the only possible outcomes.

SO, what one do we have to look forward to for our beloved Shepard?

He is not indoctrinated if you choose the destroy option. Otherwise he is indoctrinated. I don't know what happens after he is indoctrinated, they don't give us any info.

If he's not indoctrinated, then why is he hallucinating?

Indoctrination causes permanent changes to the subject's mind. This cannot be undone with willpower.

Go find in this thread, and I put it twice about when you start the game and the PSYCOLOGICAL PROFILE 

Its clearly explains Shep has PTSD right there, which is why he is having NIGHTMARES not Indoc dreams. 

edit- and you are right it IS permanant which makes this theory even more abysmal. 

HUSK Shepard in ME4

He could be seeing things due to their attempts to indoc him. Or they do indoc him and he is able to overcome it with willpower. Just because you or the codex or not one else has done it, doesn't me Shep cannot. Remember, Shep is the hero, he does things no one else can. Whether resisting the Reaper indoc is within his abilities, I don't know, but it is within the realm of what the wirters might do.

As for the dream kid, it could be PTSD or indoc, we don't know. The point is that it can be used to support the indoc theory, which is a theory, not a proven fact. Even if the dreams are PTSD, it doesn't mean Reapers are not trying to indoc Shep. Or perhaps they are using his PTSD to try and indoc him.

See how I did that?

Once again there is no 'attempt" they just do it. According to in game lore and mechanics.

What? Indoc is normally a long process (e.g. Saren) so it just doesn't magically happen.  At some point they must be able to then control the body (see Greyson in the book). So perhaps they have to attempt at some point to exert full control or what if they decide to control before they reach the point of full control? Would that not be an attempt?

 Where did you get this from? Do you just make these "facts" up?

[Rusty0918]

Now, while I do support the Indoctrination Theory, keep in mind I don't fully agree with what BioWare did, even if that's the case. If this is the case and the "true" ending is revealed, I'll drop my complaints 100%. But they took a very dangerous gamble and it sure isn't paying off for them.

[j78]

scrapmetals wrote...

I was going to actually read your post and comment on it, but then I got to the whole religion part of it.

So not cool to even bring that up, brah. Religion and beliefs have nothing to do with it. Even if that's just an example for simplicity's sake, it's a ******-poor offensive example.

But I am going to leave this little tidbit here:

Shepard's cybernetics that Cerberus put into him/her.

Do we know where those came from? Are they Reaper tech? Whether they are or are not, do we know how they'd react to indoctrination? 

thank you  
More to the point it could just be bad writing plot holes and inconsistencies run a muck.

[Jaze55]

I will paste it again just for you


 
Rana Thanoptis, an asari neuroscientist on Virmire, goes into more detail. She describes indoctrination as a subtle whisper you can't ignore, that compels you to do things without knowing why. Over days, perhaps a week of exposure to Sovereign's signal, the subject stops thinking for themselves and just obeys, eventually becoming a mindless servant. That was the fate of Rana's predecessor, who became her first test subject, and the captured salarians who had once been Captain Kirrahe's men.

[Hernok]

And Javic The protean?

[Rusty0918]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Bane_v2 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Bane_v2 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

See BENEZIA... 

Not 100% sure but have to believe Shep was rebuilt using reaper tech. so it would make it easier to indoc him.

What about her? She had been under Reaper indoctrination for who knows how long before we met her in the game. The fact that she was able to resist for as long as she did only proves that indoctrination can be resisted. Resistance may be futile as long as the Reapers exist and even the strongest minds may succomb eventually, but who knows what is possible if the Reapers are destroyed part way through the process.

Pretty sure an old asari who is the spiritual leader of her people, and that has been good for oh 800ish or more years has a pretty dam strong will. And she didn't resist lol. She did for 2 minutes to kill herself, thats about it. Like everyone else who has been indoctrinated. 

So again, the theory leave only a few possibilities for Shep

Become a husk
suicide
brain dead
insane
locked in a psych ward
killed my a friend

GOOD stuff. 

Please read my posts again as they attempt to explain that those outcomes you keep reposting are not the only possibilites. You've made a point, we've counterpointed. Reposting the same point again doesn't add anything to the discussion.

I did and according to in game lore and mechanics those are THE only possible outcomes for someone that has been indoctrinated. It is irreversable once it happens, and they do not try to do it they always succeed. According to in game lore and mechanics. 

EDIT- and where are you getting Benezia resisted for "as long as she did"? She was helping Saren the entire time we hear about her, she only resisted for like 2 minutes when she killed herself? Did you even play ME1?

BECAUSE SHEPARD DOES NOT GET THE FINAL INDOCTRINATION UNTIL HE CHOOSES CONTROL OR SYNTHESIS!!

[SirCroft]

^lol

MassEffected555 wrote...

I will paste it again just for you


 
Rana Thanoptis[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">, an ] neuroscientist on [/color]Virmire[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">, goes into more detail. She describes indoctrination as a subtle whisper you can't ignore, that compels you to do things without knowing why. Over days, perhaps a week of exposure to Sovereign's signal, the subject stops thinking for themselves and just obeys, eventually becoming a mindless servant. That was the fate of Rana's predecessor, who became her first test subject, and the captured salarians who had once been ]'s men.[/color]

She can't be wrong?

Modifié par SirCroft, 19 mars 2012 - 08:01 .

[scrapmetals]

MassEffected555 wrote...

I did and according to in game lore and mechanics those are THE only possible outcomes for someone that has been indoctrinated. It is irreversable once it happens, and they do not try to do it they always succeed. According to in game lore and mechanics. 

EDIT- and where are you getting Benezia resisted for "as long as she did"? She was helping Saren the entire time we hear about her, she only resisted for like 2 minutes when she killed herself? Did you even play ME1?

Benezia herself says she joined up with Saren to try and lead him to a gentler path (and I believe those are her words pretty much exactly).

We don't see what happened the moment Benezia joined up. Who's to say she didn't resist for a while? Just because you didn't see it happen doesn't mean it didn't.

Modifié par scrapmetals, 19 mars 2012 - 08:02 .

[Jaze55]

SirCroft wrote...

^lol

MassEffected555 wrote...

I will paste it again just for you


 
Rana Thanoptis[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">, an ] neuroscientist on [/color]Virmire[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">, goes into more detail. She describes indoctrination as a subtle whisper you can't ignore, that compels you to do things without knowing why. Over days, perhaps a week of exposure to Sovereign's signal, the subject stops thinking for themselves and just obeys, eventually becoming a mindless servant. That was the fate of Rana's predecessor, who became her first test subject, and the captured salarians who had once been ]'s men.[/color]

She can't be wrong?

No, not when the games creators are the ones that typed those little words for her to say in the game.....

Modifié par MassEffected555, 19 mars 2012 - 08:02 .

[ArkkAngel007]

MassEffected555 wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...


Indoctrination is the same for Shepard as it is for every single other person in the history of Mass Effect that has ever been indoctrinated according the the games set laws and mechanics.

EDIT- No space magic is NOT ok. That's why we started the Take Back Mass Effect movement. The Indoc Theory crowd seems to think this crusade is to get the Indoc Theory put in or you wouldnt have threads titled. "Undeniable Proof Beyond A Shadow of a Doubt Shepard Is In Fact Indoctrinated And You Will Never Prove Us Wrong Because We Are Geniuses And The People Who Don't Get Its Are Peons"

Ok, stop right there.  First, I support the Take Back Mass Effect movement as far as their overall goals and their constructive pursuits are concerned.  The Indoc theorists and the RetakeME3 supporters are not separate.  That idea needs to be killed off, as it's what is causing most of the issues.  

Everyone has a different take in some way, big or small, on the game.  That doesn't mean the goals aren't the same.   Nor are those who kicked off the theory and have analyzed it, including myself, believe by all means we are correct beyond proof.  It's just our view on the events, that is all, and we have a number of supporting elements in the game to make it a valid possibility.  Just like many believe, based on DA2, or development promises, that BioWare writing took a nose-dive in the ending because the writers are horrible, despite the game they wrote up until that point was the best in series (arguably of course). 

The problem I see on here is that people just don't like other's ideas, and have to villify them.  IT people had kept to themselves for a long time while people harassed them in the one thread continuously.  Is it really that surprising that some of them came out to do the same?  And yet, they have to be apologetic and admit they are completely wrong?  It's hypocritical. 

That is why I don't have a RetakeME3 banner.  I know that I support the goals and the donation effort.  Yet, I can't comfortably affiliate myself with a group that seems it's ok to push their view on others while claiming foul to a different view.  I realize that isn't the whole group...I have a friendly relationship with many on there who aren't like that.  But there are too many who are, quite frankly, too driven by their hatred of BioWare that they have to bring it on fellow fans who, despite having different views, would support their movement.


As for the indoctrination established in the games, Saren's indoctrination was different than TIMs, and Benezia's was different than theirs.  Grayson had a unique case.  The crew on the derelict Reaper experienced things unheard of in ME1.  So no, it isn't the same across the board.  Who is to say there isn't more to what Reapers can do?  Again, this is a unique perspective, as Shepard isn't conscience.  That's the main point of the theory beyond explaining the plot holes, namely how Shepard lives.

Then honest question, Why do all the posts about this theory contain the words - "Proof" "Evidence" "Undeniable" ... and so on if you are NOT trying to convince everyone you are right?

Because, just like with the supposedly clean-handed ReTakeME3 movement, there are people who do push the idea on others as fact.  I don't condone that, and I have, numerous times, called them out on it.  I also tend to shoot down a lot of "evidence" of the IT, to the annoyance of some in there who don't want anything to not prove their theory.  

And again, the IT people were pretty content in their own thread until ReTakers decided the theory was a threat.  Which I can't really understand why it would be.  Even if it was Indoctrination, the execution was poor.  Artistically, brilliant.  But in a business, logical sense?  A disaster.  It doesn't change anything, as the endings are the same as what we received.  Just a different perception.

Not everyone is going to explain that though because, well, it's rather obvious what the situation for us as the consumers is at the present.  Whether anything comes from this is up to BioWare with our influence (not with the theory, but through the actions of ReTake) on the side. 

Modifié par ArkkAngel007, 19 mars 2012 - 08:04 .

[Hernok]

In the first game, sheppard helps saren and Liara's mother to fight again the indoctrination.

[S Atomeha]

do we know what happens if the reapers die?

[Rusty0918]

Who is to say indoctrination doesn't have an intensity setting that can be turned up or down, if you get the jist? Shepard's mind is strong to resist the subtle level that managed to ensnare others.

[Jaze55]

scrapmetals wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

I did and according to in game lore and mechanics those are THE only possible outcomes for someone that has been indoctrinated. It is irreversable once it happens, and they do not try to do it they always succeed. According to in game lore and mechanics. 

EDIT- and where are you getting Benezia resisted for "as long as she did"? She was helping Saren the entire time we hear about her, she only resisted for like 2 minutes when she killed herself? Did you even play ME1?

Benezia herself says she joined up with Saren to try and lead him to a gentler path (and I believe those are her words pretty much exactly).

We don't see what happened the moment Benezia joined up. Who's to say she didn't resist for a while? Just because you didn't see it happen doesn't mean it didn't.

Benezia herself said it actually -

"
 Matriarch Benezia said that even Sovereign's interior serves indoctrination: the strange angles of the rooms are confusing and make you uncertain of yourself. "

[Grusome11]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

As I said in another post, the codex is nto the final say. It represents what we know, not what is true. The writers can bend those "rules" to present further info.

This is not to say that IT is true. I think it is the most logical theory and fixes a lot of the plot holes, but you may be right. But you should at least acknowledge that there is enough wiggle room for the writers to exploit to support the theory that Sheppard is not indoc'd, they try to do it, it can fail, he might be special enough to reisist, or he may be able to go on after to defeat the Reapers.

Remember that BW has stated that they want a bittersweet ending. Could that ending be that he is indoc'd but can resist long enough to destroy the Reapers, then he blows his brains out?

I don't know, but I could write it so it seemed plausible.

If you have to bend or disregard the lore to get the theory to work, you know its not correct.

The sole reason the codex exists is so Bioware can impart exposition to the player without having long, drawn-out conversations. No-one wants to listen to a five minute conversation about the exact details of indoctrination, so they put it in the codex instead so players who want to know about it can read about it.

And if characters like Saren or TIM can't stop indoctrination, then why should Shepard be able to?

Because he is Sheppard. Sheppard is the hero. He bends the rules by definition. He wins against impossible odds and survives suicide missions.

What is not to get? Look at the hero in every movies you have ever seen? Do they not do impossible things, things no one has ever done? That's why they are the hero.

Besides, many characters have resisted indoc, at least for a time. It is not impossible. Perhaps Sheppard is not better at resistance than Saren, he may just have nto been exposed as long. We don't know.

My point is that it is plausable that he can resist, due to many unkknows such as Sheps levle of willpower, exposure time, etc.

[Rusty0918]

Oh for the record, I am part of the RetakeME3 movement, and I don't consider the Indoctrination Theory a threat. I mean, one way or the other, Bioware really needs to address the problem. And if IT is true, they need to release closure content.

[Jaze55]

Hernok wrote...

In the first game, sheppard helps saren and Liara's mother to fight again the indoctrination.

And it last 2 minutes just so she can kill herself. AND in that part Benezia says she secured a part of her mind for that occasion. 

[SirCroft]

MassEffected555 wrote...

SirCroft wrote...

^lol

MassEffected555 wrote...

I will paste it again just for you


 
Rana Thanoptis[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">, an ] neuroscientist on [/color]Virmire[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">, goes into more detail. She describes indoctrination as a subtle whisper you can't ignore, that compels you to do things without knowing why. Over days, perhaps a week of exposure to Sovereign's signal, the subject stops thinking for themselves and just obeys, eventually becoming a mindless servant. That was the fate of Rana's predecessor, who became her first test subject, and the captured salarians who had once been ]'s men.[/color]

She can't be wrong?

No, not when the games creators are the ones that typed those little words for her to say in the game.....

The same creators that showed in Arrival that Mass Relay destruction = super nova = system destruction, yet the same, apparently, doesn't happen in the endings?
For me it's far easier to accept them saying that Rana Thanoptis wasn't 100% right about indoctrination than the writters themselves being wrong about the explosion of a Mass Relay.

Modifié par SirCroft, 19 mars 2012 - 08:05 .

[scrapmetals]

MassEffected555 wrote...

SirCroft wrote...

^lol

MassEffected555 wrote...

I will paste it again just for you


 
Rana Thanoptis[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">, an ] neuroscientist on [/color]Virmire[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">, goes into more detail. She describes indoctrination as a subtle whisper you can't ignore, that compels you to do things without knowing why. Over days, perhaps a week of exposure to Sovereign's signal, the subject stops thinking for themselves and just obeys, eventually becoming a mindless servant. That was the fate of Rana's predecessor, who became her first test subject, and the captured salarians who had once been ]'s men.[/color]

She can't be wrong?

No, not when the games creators are the ones that typed those little words for her to say in the game.....

Game characters can lie. Or not have all the information, even if they think they do. Just because a real person wrote the lines doesn't mean they meant those lines to be taken literally, as the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Play Phoenix Wright sometimes. Most of the characters in that series lie and are wrong about many things, despite the fact that the words for them were written by game creators.

[Jaze55]

Grusome11 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

As I said in another post, the codex is nto the final say. It represents what we know, not what is true. The writers can bend those "rules" to present further info.

This is not to say that IT is true. I think it is the most logical theory and fixes a lot of the plot holes, but you may be right. But you should at least acknowledge that there is enough wiggle room for the writers to exploit to support the theory that Sheppard is not indoc'd, they try to do it, it can fail, he might be special enough to reisist, or he may be able to go on after to defeat the Reapers.

Remember that BW has stated that they want a bittersweet ending. Could that ending be that he is indoc'd but can resist long enough to destroy the Reapers, then he blows his brains out?

I don't know, but I could write it so it seemed plausible.

If you have to bend or disregard the lore to get the theory to work, you know its not correct.

The sole reason the codex exists is so Bioware can impart exposition to the player without having long, drawn-out conversations. No-one wants to listen to a five minute conversation about the exact details of indoctrination, so they put it in the codex instead so players who want to know about it can read about it.

And if characters like Saren or TIM can't stop indoctrination, then why should Shepard be able to?

Because he is Sheppard. Sheppard is the hero. He bends the rules by definition. He wins against impossible odds and survives suicide missions.

What is not to get? Look at the hero in every movies you have ever seen? Do they not do impossible things, things no one has ever done? That's why they are the hero.

Besides, many characters have resisted indoc, at least for a time. It is not impossible. Perhaps Sheppard is not better at resistance than Saren, he may just have nto been exposed as long. We don't know.

My point is that it is plausable that he can resist, due to many unkknows such as Sheps levle of willpower, exposure time, etc.

And here is the 4th time I will say this to you

If you allow Shepard to do something no one else in the history of the game then that elevates Shepard to a status above and beyond anything essentially making him super human. 

[Jaze55]

SirCroft wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

SirCroft wrote...

^lol

MassEffected555 wrote...

I will paste it again just for you


 
Rana Thanoptis[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">, an ] neuroscientist on [/color]Virmire[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">, goes into more detail. She describes indoctrination as a subtle whisper you can't ignore, that compels you to do things without knowing why. Over days, perhaps a week of exposure to Sovereign's signal, the subject stops thinking for themselves and just obeys, eventually becoming a mindless servant. That was the fate of Rana's predecessor, who became her first test subject, and the captured salarians who had once been ]'s men.[/color]

She can't be wrong?

No, not when the games creators are the ones that typed those little words for her to say in the game.....

The same creators that showed in Arrival that Mass Relay destruction = super nova = system destruction, yet the same, apparently, doesn't happen in the endings?
For me it's far easier to accept them saying that Rana Thanoptis wasn't 100% right about indoctrination than the writters themselves being wrong about the explosion of a Mass Relay.

A meteor crashing into something is not the same as a pulse going out. For all we know that pulse just took the energy from the relay and was shot out into deep space. Now we KNOW for a fact a meteor crashing and breaking apart a relay would cause a huge explosion.