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[-Zorph-]

scrapmetals wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Yeah when a METEOR hits them... and thats exactly what happened at the end of ME3


WAIT......

Where do you get your evidence that only meteors hitting Mass Relays cause the explosion that wipes out star systems?

Forgetting the Mass Relays, sure, let's say Shepard is fully indoctrinated. Didn't change the fact that you can still choose red flavor/red color/Charmander.

Saren, Benezia, TIM were all fully indoctrinated and they still had moments of resistance. Yes, they were short moments. It only took a short moment to crawl your ass to Charmander and shoot it.

This. Also, the galaxy map and the visible sight of the relays blowing up shows a big shockwave like explosion. Even if the explosion itself doesn't completely wipe out the various galaxies/clusters/systems, they will all starve now because dozens of races and billions of people are inside the Sol system, just chilling.

[Cucobr]

MassEffected555 explain to me only ONE THING. Just one thing.

Why ONLY if you choose destroy the sintetic life, at the end of the game Shepard clearly wakes up.

I want to you answer me, why only this CG appears when you choose to destroy the sintetic life.

What? will you say they did because they had nothing else to do? As his eyes was just a coincidence?

Please...

Modifié par Cucobr, 19 mars 2012 - 09:33 .

[Jaze55]

scrapmetals wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Yeah when a METEOR hits them... and thats exactly what happened at the end of ME3


WAIT......

Where do you get your evidence that only meteors hitting Mass Relays cause the explosion that wipes out star systems?

Forgetting the Mass Relays, sure, let's say Shepard is fully indoctrinated. Didn't change the fact that you can still choose red flavor/red color/Charmander.

Saren, Benezia, TIM were all fully indoctrinated and they still had moments of resistance. Yes, they were short moments. It only took a short moment to crawl your ass to Charmander and shoot it.

Where is your proof that the relays have to explode and wipe out a system?

Annnnddd there is no such thing as being a little indoctrinated. Saren cleary says they didn't indoctrinate him fully but he still did every thing the Reapers wanted him to do. Indoctrinated is indoctrinated.

[scrapmetals]

MassEffected555 wrote...

scrapmetals wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Yeah when a METEOR hits them... and thats exactly what happened at the end of ME3


WAIT......

Where do you get your evidence that only meteors hitting Mass Relays cause the explosion that wipes out star systems?

Forgetting the Mass Relays, sure, let's say Shepard is fully indoctrinated. Didn't change the fact that you can still choose red flavor/red color/Charmander.

Saren, Benezia, TIM were all fully indoctrinated and they still had moments of resistance. Yes, they were short moments. It only took a short moment to crawl your ass to Charmander and shoot it.

Where is your proof that the relays have to explode and wipe out a system?

Annnnddd there is no such thing as being a little indoctrinated. Saren cleary says they didn't indoctrinate him fully but he still did every thing the Reapers wanted him to do. Indoctrinated is indoctrinated.

...Which is exactly what I said?

I said even if Shep is fully indoctinrated - not a little, not a lot, fully - that doesn't change the fact that Saren shot himself in a moment of resistence (which I'm pretty sure the Reapers wouldn't have wanted him to do if he could still be used as a pawn).

That Benezia gave you details in a moment of resistence.

That you can DESTROY THEM IN A MOMENT OF RESISTENCE...

I agree, I think you're trolling and I'm done answering you now. Cheers.

Modifié par scrapmetals, 19 mars 2012 - 09:37 .

[-Zorph-]

MassEffected555 wrote...

scrapmetals wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Yeah when a METEOR hits them... and thats exactly what happened at the end of ME3


WAIT......

Where do you get your evidence that only meteors hitting Mass Relays cause the explosion that wipes out star systems?

Forgetting the Mass Relays, sure, let's say Shepard is fully indoctrinated. Didn't change the fact that you can still choose red flavor/red color/Charmander.

Saren, Benezia, TIM were all fully indoctrinated and they still had moments of resistance. Yes, they were short moments. It only took a short moment to crawl your ass to Charmander and shoot it.

Where is your proof that the relays have to explode and wipe out a system?

Annnnddd there is no such thing as being a little indoctrinated. Saren cleary says they didn't indoctrinate him fully but he still did every thing the Reapers wanted him to do. Indoctrinated is indoctrinated.

Check out and/or replay the ME2 part of the game where you visit the derelict Reaper. Are you trying to tell me those scientists weren't demonstrating going through the process of indoctrination? Indoctrination does not simply make them a husk on the spot, if that's what you're implying. Telling me two Cerberus scientists had their memories switched shows me that Reapers can do partial things. 

Also, even if the relays themselves don't kill everything, all the galaxy is now trapped in the Sol system (despite the dead people on the battleground homeworlds) with little to no food. They will ALL DIE EVENTUALLY NOW.

Modifié par -Zorph-, 19 mars 2012 - 09:37 .

[Rusty0918]

MassEffected555 wrote...

scrapmetals wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Yeah when a METEOR hits them... and thats exactly what happened at the end of ME3


WAIT......

Where do you get your evidence that only meteors hitting Mass Relays cause the explosion that wipes out star systems?

Forgetting the Mass Relays, sure, let's say Shepard is fully indoctrinated. Didn't change the fact that you can still choose red flavor/red color/Charmander.

Saren, Benezia, TIM were all fully indoctrinated and they still had moments of resistance. Yes, they were short moments. It only took a short moment to crawl your ass to Charmander and shoot it.

Where is your proof that the relays have to explode and wipe out a system?

Annnnddd there is no such thing as being a little indoctrinated. Saren cleary says they didn't indoctrinate him fully but he still did every thing the Reapers wanted him to do. Indoctrinated is indoctrinated.

Well Saren had his guard down, he never knew SQUAT about indoctrination before he came across Sovereign. Shepard knows quite a bit about what happens. Sheppard is NOT indoctrinated in the dream unless/until you choose Control or Synthesis. The Reapers are trying to mentally break him so that he CAN become indoctrinated.

[DnVill]

I don't get why Indoctrination believers ask for proof why it is false when the indoctrination theory's proof itself is mere speculation.

We'll never know until Bioware devs stop celebrating and start fixing.

[ArkkAngel007]

DnVill wrote...

I don't get why Indoctrination believers ask for proof why it is false when the indoctrination theory's proof itself is mere speculation.

We'll never know until Bioware devs stop celebrating and start fixing.

But why speculate when you can force either ideal down other's throats?

[Detha]

Partly synthetic is not fully synthetic. It can be assumed by the player that perhaps destroying himself partially means Shepard would die.

However, it leaves it for interpretation as well. For the record, Shepard only received implants to mend his bones when he was recreated with the lazarus project (I imagine that would function like a cast, and at this point his bones would be mended), as the other fixings he had were not verbally stated to be implants.  His other implants are the performance implants based on his class.

In the synthesis ending, Shepard disintegrates before our eyes, and in the description for the control ending, it is stated clearly that Shepard would die.

The only ending that both verbally and visually leaves things up in the air concerning Shepard's fate is the destroy one.  And if you have over 4/5000+ EMS, you get a treat

And like another poster said, if the Star Child was capable of lying, would he make the other endings sound bad at all? It doesn't really add up.

Modifié par Detha, 19 mars 2012 - 09:44 .

[Jaze55]

scrapmetals wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

scrapmetals wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Yeah when a METEOR hits them... and thats exactly what happened at the end of ME3


WAIT......

Where do you get your evidence that only meteors hitting Mass Relays cause the explosion that wipes out star systems?

Forgetting the Mass Relays, sure, let's say Shepard is fully indoctrinated. Didn't change the fact that you can still choose red flavor/red color/Charmander.

Saren, Benezia, TIM were all fully indoctrinated and they still had moments of resistance. Yes, they were short moments. It only took a short moment to crawl your ass to Charmander and shoot it.

Where is your proof that the relays have to explode and wipe out a system?

Annnnddd there is no such thing as being a little indoctrinated. Saren cleary says they didn't indoctrinate him fully but he still did every thing the Reapers wanted him to do. Indoctrinated is indoctrinated.

...Which is exactly what I said?

I said even if Shep is fully indoctinrated - not a little, not a lot, fully - that doesn't change the fact that Saren shot himself in a moment of resistence (which I'm pretty sure the Reapers wouldn't have wanted him to do if he could still be used as a pawn).

That Benezia gave you details in a moment of resistence.

That you can DESTROY THEM IN A MOMENT OF RESISTENCE...

I agree, I think you're trolling and I'm done answering you now. Cheers.

LOL you guys keep saying im trolling when i am just using in game law and mechanics to prove you wrong I LOVE IT.

Also AGAIN in your ending after this SHepard will

Become a husk
kill himself
Brain dead vegi
husk

HOORAY!!!!

[IronSabbath88]

You keep repeating the same thing over and over. It's officially irritating. You're adding nothing new to this.

[Mann42]

jaze89 wrote...

I'm not sure if I misread but to clarify I mean are renegade (not the ending destroy option) interrupts located on the lower left side of the screen or are they on the lower right for the XBOX 360 and vice versa for paragon?

On the Xbox 360:
Renegade Interrupt = Right Trigger, right bottom corner of screen.
Paragon Interrupt = Left Trigger, left bottom corner of screen.

Destroy = Right, Control = Left

If I understood your original point, it was that on the PC, Renegade Interrupts ore on the left bottom using the Left Mouse Button, which would be opposite the final device configuration in the ending. On the Xbox 360, everything lines up (Destroy option = Renegade Interrupt location)

[cynicalandbored]

Can anyone please give me a valid reason for why would Bioware put the breath shot into the game? Why?

[Jaze55]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

You keep repeating the same thing over and over. It's officially irritating. You're adding nothing new to this.

Right back at ya buddy. Hypocrite
Your little idoc theory club has made about 75 posts now saying the exact same thing for a week, with the sole purpose of convincing everyone you are right. Again just look at the Titles of the threads.

Don't you DARE accuse me of repeating myself when all I do is come in threads YOUR INDOC CLUB makes multiple times a day. 

What a load of horse ****. 

[Cucobr]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

You keep repeating the same thing over and over. It's officially irritating. You're adding nothing new to this.

he can't. Because their arguments ended .

[ArkkAngel007]

MassEffected555 wrote...

scrapmetals wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

scrapmetals wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Yeah when a METEOR hits them... and thats exactly what happened at the end of ME3


WAIT......

Where do you get your evidence that only meteors hitting Mass Relays cause the explosion that wipes out star systems?

Forgetting the Mass Relays, sure, let's say Shepard is fully indoctrinated. Didn't change the fact that you can still choose red flavor/red color/Charmander.

Saren, Benezia, TIM were all fully indoctrinated and they still had moments of resistance. Yes, they were short moments. It only took a short moment to crawl your ass to Charmander and shoot it.

Where is your proof that the relays have to explode and wipe out a system?

Annnnddd there is no such thing as being a little indoctrinated. Saren cleary says they didn't indoctrinate him fully but he still did every thing the Reapers wanted him to do. Indoctrinated is indoctrinated.

...Which is exactly what I said?

I said even if Shep is fully indoctinrated - not a little, not a lot, fully - that doesn't change the fact that Saren shot himself in a moment of resistence (which I'm pretty sure the Reapers wouldn't have wanted him to do if he could still be used as a pawn).

That Benezia gave you details in a moment of resistence.

That you can DESTROY THEM IN A MOMENT OF RESISTENCE...

I agree, I think you're trolling and I'm done answering you now. Cheers.

LOL you guys keep saying im trolling when i am just using in game law and mechanics to prove you wrong I LOVE IT.

Also AGAIN in your ending after this SHepard will

Become a husk
kill himself
Brain dead vegi
husk

HOORAY!!!!

How can you continue saying game laws and mechanics where no one outside of BioWare can state 100% how indoctrination works.  It's just like the synthesis ending.  If it happens literally, how does one go about explaining how synthetics can arise from organic DNA and organic material can arise from a synthetic through an energy pulse from the Relay?

And to your earlier counter argument, we don't know what happened with Object Rho.  The scientists there were subjecting Shepard to something regarding it, but we don't know (purposely most likely) what that was.  And the Reapers do not want to break Shepard.  They aren't using the same force as they did with Grayson and possibly Benezia.  You argue that Harbringer that close and attempting to indoctrinate Shepard will cause Shepard to be a mindless husk, because apparently only forceful, brute indoctrination can be the only rapid way to do it.

Shepard is completely broken at this point.  We don't know all the rules.  You talk about not forcing the IT on people and not twist the lore, but you sure are doing your best to twist things to your argument, and force your perception on others.  Again, this argument has become rather hypocritical.

[jaze89]

nexworks wrote...

jaze89 wrote...

I'm not sure if I misread but to clarify I mean are renegade (not the ending destroy option) interrupts located on the lower left side of the screen or are they on the lower right for the XBOX 360 and vice versa for paragon?

On the Xbox 360:
Renegade Interrupt = Right Trigger, right bottom corner of screen.
Paragon Interrupt = Left Trigger, left bottom corner of screen.

Destroy = Right, Control = Left

If I understood your original point, it was that on the PC, Renegade Interrupts ore on the left bottom using the Left Mouse Button, which would be opposite the final device configuration in the ending. On the Xbox 360, everything lines up (Destroy option = Renegade Interrupt location)

Thank you for clarifying. It probably means nothing then =(.

Modifié par jaze89, 19 mars 2012 - 09:54 .

[Jaze55]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

scrapmetals wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

scrapmetals wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Yeah when a METEOR hits them... and thats exactly what happened at the end of ME3


WAIT......

Where do you get your evidence that only meteors hitting Mass Relays cause the explosion that wipes out star systems?

Forgetting the Mass Relays, sure, let's say Shepard is fully indoctrinated. Didn't change the fact that you can still choose red flavor/red color/Charmander.

Saren, Benezia, TIM were all fully indoctrinated and they still had moments of resistance. Yes, they were short moments. It only took a short moment to crawl your ass to Charmander and shoot it.

Where is your proof that the relays have to explode and wipe out a system?

Annnnddd there is no such thing as being a little indoctrinated. Saren cleary says they didn't indoctrinate him fully but he still did every thing the Reapers wanted him to do. Indoctrinated is indoctrinated.

...Which is exactly what I said?

I said even if Shep is fully indoctinrated - not a little, not a lot, fully - that doesn't change the fact that Saren shot himself in a moment of resistence (which I'm pretty sure the Reapers wouldn't have wanted him to do if he could still be used as a pawn).

That Benezia gave you details in a moment of resistence.

That you can DESTROY THEM IN A MOMENT OF RESISTENCE...

I agree, I think you're trolling and I'm done answering you now. Cheers.

LOL you guys keep saying im trolling when i am just using in game law and mechanics to prove you wrong I LOVE IT.

Also AGAIN in your ending after this SHepard will

Become a husk
kill himself
Brain dead vegi
husk

HOORAY!!!!

How can you continue saying game laws and mechanics where no one outside of BioWare can state 100% how indoctrination works.  It's just like the synthesis ending.  If it happens literally, how does one go about explaining how synthetics can arise from organic DNA and organic material can arise from a synthetic through an energy pulse from the Relay?

And to your earlier counter argument, we don't know what happened with Object Rho.  The scientists there were subjecting Shepard to something regarding it, but we don't know (purposely most likely) what that was.  And the Reapers do not want to break Shepard.  They aren't using the same force as they did with Grayson and possibly Benezia.  You argue that Harbringer that close and attempting to indoctrinate Shepard will cause Shepard to be a mindless husk, because apparently only forceful, brute indoctrination can be the only rapid way to do it.

Shepard is completely broken at this point.  We don't know all the rules.  You talk about not forcing the IT on people and not twist the lore, but you sure are doing your best to twist things to your argument, and force your perception on others.  Again, this argument has become rather hypocritical.

THEN BIOWARE IS ALLOWED TO USE SPACE MAGIC IN THE GAME AND THE ENDING DON'T NEED TO BE CHANGE ACCORDING TO YOU.

RIGHT?

Caps lock was on and I am not retyping that.

[Mann42]

IronSabbath88 wrote...

You keep repeating the same thing over and over. It's officially irritating. You're adding nothing new to this.

They have also been the key person keeping this thread on the front page and growing. Like most of the big threads on BSN, it's fueled by a handful of passionate, persistent people that just refuse to stop disagreeing with each other. 

[Jaze55]

MassEffected555 wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

You keep repeating the same thing over and over. It's officially irritating. You're adding nothing new to this.

Right back at ya buddy. Hypocrite
Your little idoc theory club has made about 75 posts now saying the exact same thing for a week, with the sole purpose of convincing everyone you are right. Again just look at the Titles of the threads.

Don't you DARE accuse me of repeating myself when all I do is come in threads YOUR INDOC CLUB makes multiple times a day. 

What a load of horse ****. 

Just because you deserve to see it again.

[ArkkAngel007]

Detha wrote...

Partly synthetic is not fully synthetic. It can be assumed by the player that perhaps destroying himself partially means Shepard would die.

However, it leaves it for interpretation as well. For the record, Shepard only received implants to mend his bones when he was recreated with the lazarus project (I imagine that would function like a cast, and at this point his bones would be mended), as the other fixings he had were not verbally stated to be implants.  His other implants are the performance implants based on his class.

In the synthesis ending, Shepard disintegrates before our eyes, and in the description for the control ending, it is stated clearly that Shepard would die.

The only ending that both verbally and visually leaves things up in the air concerning Shepard's fate is the destroy one.  And if you have over 4/5000+ EMS, you get a treat

And like another poster said, if the Star Child was capable of lying, would he make the other endings sound bad at all? It doesn't really add up.

There is still the problem at how a nearly dead human, now without the aid of synthetics provided he survived their destruction, lived through the destruction of the Citadel, vacuum, atmospheric reentry, and high velocity impact onto terra.  Space magic can't even save people there.

That doesn't leave much to interpretation, and is the main thing keeping my opinion from accepting the endings at face-value with no string pulling.  

[Denora]

I believe the title states that this is a mere discussion, not an argument. Lets settle down people.

[ArkkAngel007]

MassEffected555 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

IronSabbath88 wrote...

You keep repeating the same thing over and over. It's officially irritating. You're adding nothing new to this.

Right back at ya buddy. Hypocrite
Your little idoc theory club has made about 75 posts now saying the exact same thing for a week, with the sole purpose of convincing everyone you are right. Again just look at the Titles of the threads.

Don't you DARE accuse me of repeating myself when all I do is come in threads YOUR INDOC CLUB makes multiple times a day. 

What a load of horse ****. 

Just because you deserve to see it again.

And it was necessary how?  You can say all the same things about people only ****** off at the endings and spewing hate at anyone that differs in opinion in the slightest, yet it's ok?

The only reason there are multiple indoc threads, just like multiple rage threads, is that new people find things that they don't know are seen before, or feel they have proof, and they post it.  Last time I checked, it is a story discussion thread.

At this point, I can't really see this ending well at all.  

[Grusome11]

DnVill wrote...

I don't get why Indoctrination believers ask for proof why it is false when the indoctrination theory's proof itself is mere speculation.

We'll never know until Bioware devs stop celebrating and start fixing.

I am not asking to prove that IT is wrong and I don't think anyone else is.

I am simply saying that IT makes the most sense of what we have seen. I do not ask the other side to prove that IT is not true, its a theory, it is not necessarily true, by definition. Evolution is a theory, not a truth.

However, if you want to come and poke hole it the theory you are welcome to. It serves the function of making the theory stronger if we can explain the problems. This is a thread about Indoc Theory, so if you are going to argue that it is wrong, it is expected that you might have to give some reasons.

However, if you come in here and keep repeating things that are not true or have been refuted already, such as indoctrination works a certain way because I said so, or the hero of a story can't do something that no one else has done, when it is obvious that the hero has done those things, don't expect to get understand and sympathy.

It is true that only BW will be able to settle if IT is correct or not.

[CrimsonFrost1]

CavScout wrote...

wtbusername wrote...

Liquoid wrote...

Xerkysz wrote...


I'm still waiting for someone to give actual reasoning and proof to why it's false, instead of screaming GRASPINGATSTRAWS.JPG L3L3L3L3L3L3L

ditto

Thirded.

If that's a word.

Is this how you guys admit that you can't actually support, with proof, your theory claims and so instead petulantly demand it be disproven?

I fully support the "theory" or "interpretation", I'll say that first. Cav is actually right though, the people who are so adamant about forcing others to disprove it are essentially using the same argument as religous zealots: "If you can't disprove my deity, then he/she/it must be real!" Unfortunately, that's not how the scientific method works, and even in that method, "theory" is only *part* of the process.

However! If we wish to be civil about this, we could work together and come up with theories, or revised editions of them, and the naysayers could constructively poke holes in them and we could come up with answers to plug those holes. Thus, making the theory even stronger... Just a thought.