758 réponses à ce sujet

[senshi10]

I just want to say I am indifferent about the IT. If it turns out Bioware planned this it may turn out to be the single most memorable incident in gaming history.

I do find it funny that people are using a couple of paragraphs in a codex and a handful of characters in the game to say it is impossible for Shep to resist indoctrination. How many people have been indoctrinated in this universe that have actually been studied, no where near enough to claim whatever happens in the games to be the sole outcome of attempted indoctrination. Regarding the Saren and Benezia argument that if they could not stop indoctrination how could Shep, I don't know what game you have been playing but my Shep kind of whipped their ***es ergo Shep is stronger.

[Jaze55]

Grusome11 wrote...

There is anothe rthread up about why Indoc Theory is wrong.

However, IT is the only thing out there that explains the huge plot hole and illogic regarding what the starchild says.

The usual way to disprove a theory is to replace it with another one that better explains the facts.

If IT is wrong, how do you explain the huge plot hole and illogic in the final ten minutes?

I can't. That's why i am part of Take Back Mass Effect.

But the Indoc Theory opens up new plot holes and honestly is no better. It actually BREAKS the lore and mechanics while the ending we got only adds - some extremely weird and random - elements to the ME universe. 

[cinderburster]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

There is anothe rthread up about why Indoc Theory is wrong.

However, IT is the only thing out there that explains the huge plot hole and illogic regarding what the starchild says.

The usual way to disprove a theory is to replace it with another one that better explains the facts.

If IT is wrong, how do you explain the huge plot hole and illogic in the final ten minutes?

I can't. That's why i am part of Take Back Mass Effect.

But the Indoc Theory opens up new plot holes and honestly is no better. It actually BREAKS the lore and mechanics while the ending we got only adds - some extremely weird and random - elements to the ME universe. 

Have you read this?  I know it's dauntingly long, but it actually supports Indoc Theory using lore instead of breaking it: https://docs.google....?pli=1&sle=true

I can not spam that link enough.

[Cucobr]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

MassEffected555, is pretty simple.

I made you a simple question, and you simply avoid it. And then continues to post the same thing over and over again.

You can't denied the Indoctrination Theory because you can't answer what I ask.

Actually no I won't answer. You are just going to call me a troll again, not wasting my time with you.

Have a nice day though. 

of couse you won't.

because you can't

Like I said, is simple.

And to give you an idea, a person can be indoctrinated quickly. The Codex says it.
which clearly you conveniently excluded.
But this is not the question that I did, this is just another fact that you can not counter-argument.

[Jaze55]

Anyway it doesn't matter. It was never planned to be part of the ending so your theory if effectivly shot.

We are aware that there are concerns about a recent post from this account regarding the ending of the game. In this post it was stated that at this time we do not have plans to change the ending.

We would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending.

Your feedback and opinions are of the utmost importance to us. We apologize for any confusion this has caused. Our top priority regarding this discussion is to keep communication with you, our loyal fans, open and productive.

http://www.facebook....275243029217754

Really no point in talking about it anymore. It was never a super secret plan from BW.

[nyogen]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

nyogen wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

DnVill wrote...

I don't get why Indoctrination believers ask for proof why it is false when the indoctrination theory's proof itself is mere speculation.

We'll never know until Bioware devs stop celebrating and start fixing.

I am not asking to prove that IT is wrong and I don't think anyone else is.

I am simply saying that IT makes the most sense of what we have seen. I do not ask the other side to prove that IT is not true, its a theory, it is not necessarily true, by definition. Evolution is a theory, not a truth.

However, if you want to come and poke hole it the theory you are welcome to. It serves the function of making the theory stronger if we can explain the problems. This is a thread about Indoc Theory, so if you are going to argue that it is wrong, it is expected that you might have to give some reasons.

However, if you come in here and keep repeating things that are not true or have been refuted already, such as indoctrination works a certain way because I said so, or the hero of a story can't do something that no one else has done, when it is obvious that the hero has done those things, don't expect to get understand and sympathy.

It is true that only BW will be able to settle if IT is correct or not.

Oh, well, then too bad they already did that like 16 hours ago:

"We
would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all
player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this
time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not
made a decision regarding requests to change the ending."

www.facebook.com/masseffect/posts/275243029217754

But by all means look for the details that support your fan fiction deep inside the game, analyze all the movement glitches, the gazes and what not, while completely ignoring that the endings we have are the endings they wanted us to have. Bury your heads deeper into the sand and play into the the community polarization scheme they have provided for you. Why do I even bother ?

IT explains behind the ending, not a concept for changing the ending.  It's not a fan fiction.  Some people may be pulling things from thin air in attempts to try and prove it, but the core theory is using what the game provides to EXPLAIN, not fill or replace, the plot holes.

It's speculation.  It doesn't change/replace/refute the endings.  It isn't meant to declare/confirm post-game DLC.

So to your question, you probably shouldn't if you don't understand why the theory came about in the first place, instead of judging it by the excited jumpstarters who throw it around like candy at a parade.

You know you're posting in a thread where the OP is doing exactly that, right ? "Some people may be pulling things from thin air in attempts to try and prove it"

As for speculation you are totally entitled to but then people that like yourself seem reasonable and like minded should IMHO try to put some distance between you and the "thin airers" who probably just need a hug.

As for myself I didn't invest that much in this trilogy to speculate my endings in my head, but again you are totally entitled to, in the end everyone gets what everyone wants to get.

As for myself, I want my endings from Bioware, and if those endings should be about indoctrination so be it but stop pretending you masterminds saw through the big game scheme and understood the devious master plot behind it, such conspiracy theories are ludicrous at best, all the while when the RL evidence comes in play and nothing adds up to it.

Would it have been an interesting plot twist ? Sure BUT IT WASN'T. And they are pondering whether or not to listen to the fan base and CHANGE the ending... if this doesn't go through nothing else will.

[Grusome11]

MassEffected555 wrote...

jaze89 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Denora wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

stop feeding the troll guys.

See? Anyone that disagrees with your theory and provides in game evidence is a troll.

I go out of my way to research and copy/paste what I find so you don't have to look for it yet I am a troll

I really find that funny. It's nice people true colors are shining through now. 

This is why, please try to keep a cool head. It's the name calling and insults that get people fired up. I welcome evidence on either case but the context of the posts is insulting and borderline harrassment. Please lets keep things civil?

I'm sure you meant well but not everyone took it that way.

Sorry it's really not my problem people are defensive. I have done nothing but be civil, provide evidence backing my cause through research, that I also took the time to provide for everyone to see, yet I am called a troll and dismissed.

I think you're a troll but regardless even if you aren't you've not even been close to being civil and when someone tries to give a counter point all you say, paraphrased, "IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THAN YOU BELIEVE IN SPACE MAGIC THEREFORE YOU CAN'T HATE THE ENDING LOLOLOLOL!"

That doesn't scream civility to me, not in the least.

Because it's true?

If you are going to allow Shepard to all of a sudden be able to do something previously impossible according to the lore and mechanics of the Mass Effect world then why is it not OK to allow the writers to incorperate something that was previously not in the game? (meaning the Catalyst and ... ugh space magic?

Both scenerios don't fit into the lore and mechanics of the game. 

Someone please tell me if I am making no sense because it seems like a pretty simple and rational comparision to me. 

Ok, I will tell you. You are making no sense.

And here is why. You are fixated on indoctrination working a certain way. We do not know it works that way. We have some codex entries but that doesn't mean they are correct, they are only the best information Shep has at the time. There are other points in the story where we thought something was true and it was not. Again, as I mentioned before, find the codex that says the Reapers are really controlled by a little kid.

And again, Shep does many things that are impossible, such as going through the Omega relay and surviving a suicide mission. Doing impossible things are possible.

[Jaze55]

Cucobr wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

MassEffected555, is pretty simple.

I made you a simple question, and you simply avoid it. And then continues to post the same thing over and over again.

You can't denied the Indoctrination Theory because you can't answer what I ask.

Actually no I won't answer. You are just going to call me a troll again, not wasting my time with you.

Have a nice day though. 

of couse you won't.

because you can't

Like I said, is simple.

And to give you an idea, a person can be indoctrinated quickly. The Codex says it.
which clearly you conveniently excluded.
But this is not the question that I did, this is just another fact that you can not counter-argument.

No I won't because you are a rude POS and I don't waste my time answering question of rude POS. have a nice day.

[jaze89]

MassEffected555 wrote...

jaze89 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Denora wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

stop feeding the troll guys.

See? Anyone that disagrees with your theory and provides in game evidence is a troll.

I go out of my way to research and copy/paste what I find so you don't have to look for it yet I am a troll

I really find that funny. It's nice people true colors are shining through now. 

This is why, please try to keep a cool head. It's the name calling and insults that get people fired up. I welcome evidence on either case but the context of the posts is insulting and borderline harrassment. Please lets keep things civil?

I'm sure you meant well but not everyone took it that way.

Sorry it's really not my problem people are defensive. I have done nothing but be civil, provide evidence backing my cause through research, that I also took the time to provide for everyone to see, yet I am called a troll and dismissed.

I think you're a troll but regardless even if you aren't you've not even been close to being civil and when someone tries to give a counter point all you say, paraphrased, "IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THAN YOU BELIEVE IN SPACE MAGIC THEREFORE YOU CAN'T HATE THE ENDING LOLOLOLOL!"

That doesn't scream civility to me, not in the least.

Because it's true?

If you are going to allow Shepard to all of a sudden be able to do something previously impossible according to the lore and mechanics of the Mass Effect world then why is it not OK to allow the writers to incorperate something that was previously not in the game? (meaning the Catalyst and ... ugh space magic?

Both scenerios don't fit into the lore and mechanics of the game. 

Someone please tell me if I am making no sense because it seems like a pretty simple and rational comparision to me. 

Well I think I put out the point that it's never said to be impossible, it has been said by an Asari scientist from the evidence she has about a race of machines that is not well known that suggestions can't be ignored. Everyone so far has been unable to beat indoctrination but a strong-willed few have broken from suggestions for brief moments Benezia and Saren. Doesn't that disprove that suggestions can't ignored and in fact can be if only for brief moments? These are people that are already indoctrinated and people are arguing that Shepard isn't indoctrinated but is in the process of being indoctrinated. Why is it beyond the realm of possibility that a human that's proven time and again to beat the impossible (killing multiple Reapers, surviving the trip through Omega 4 Relay and back, and surviving what was thought to be an impossible suicide mission) can't break away from the process of indoctrination?

[Cucobr]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

MassEffected555, is pretty simple.

I made you a simple question, and you simply avoid it. And then continues to post the same thing over and over again.

You can't denied the Indoctrination Theory because you can't answer what I ask.

Actually no I won't answer. You are just going to call me a troll again, not wasting my time with you.

Have a nice day though. 

of couse you won't.

because you can't

Like I said, is simple.

And to give you an idea, a person can be indoctrinated quickly. The Codex says it.
which clearly you conveniently excluded.
But this is not the question that I did, this is just another fact that you can not counter-argument.

No I won't because you are a rude POS and I don't waste my time answering question of rude POS. have a nice day.

I already made my point.

have a nice day too.

[Jaze55]

Grusome11 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

jaze89 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Denora wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

stop feeding the troll guys.

See? Anyone that disagrees with your theory and provides in game evidence is a troll.

I go out of my way to research and copy/paste what I find so you don't have to look for it yet I am a troll

I really find that funny. It's nice people true colors are shining through now. 

This is why, please try to keep a cool head. It's the name calling and insults that get people fired up. I welcome evidence on either case but the context of the posts is insulting and borderline harrassment. Please lets keep things civil?

I'm sure you meant well but not everyone took it that way.

Sorry it's really not my problem people are defensive. I have done nothing but be civil, provide evidence backing my cause through research, that I also took the time to provide for everyone to see, yet I am called a troll and dismissed.

I think you're a troll but regardless even if you aren't you've not even been close to being civil and when someone tries to give a counter point all you say, paraphrased, "IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THAN YOU BELIEVE IN SPACE MAGIC THEREFORE YOU CAN'T HATE THE ENDING LOLOLOLOL!"

That doesn't scream civility to me, not in the least.

Because it's true?

If you are going to allow Shepard to all of a sudden be able to do something previously impossible according to the lore and mechanics of the Mass Effect world then why is it not OK to allow the writers to incorperate something that was previously not in the game? (meaning the Catalyst and ... ugh space magic?

Both scenerios don't fit into the lore and mechanics of the game. 

Someone please tell me if I am making no sense because it seems like a pretty simple and rational comparision to me. 

Ok, I will tell you. You are making no sense.

And here is why. You are fixated on indoctrination working a certain way. We do not know it works that way. We have some codex entries but that doesn't mean they are correct, they are only the best information Shep has at the time. There are other points in the story where we thought something was true and it was not. Again, as I mentioned before, find the codex that says the Reapers are really controlled by a little kid.

And again, Shep does many things that are impossible, such as going through the Omega relay and surviving a suicide mission. Doing impossible things are possible.

The Omega 4 realy was possible because of the Reaper IFF that he got. Going through the relay w/out the IFF would have been impossible. An item Shep colled MADE IT POSSIBLE.  He had to work to get it. Not even close to the same thing, but whatever, BW said no plans to change the ending so I can care less about this because its already proven it was never intended for the game.

[Haiyato]

Its not that far fetched. Shepard is strongwilled I give her that, but even the strongwilled will eventually break. Thats what happened to Matriarch Benezia except she was on Sovereign during the indoctination period. Being on the ship the indoctrination is more intense apparently. She resisted at first, but eventually subcummbed to it. For Saren it was harder to break because he had reaper implants. That was apparent because he transformed. But he did break out of his indoctrination only briefly to kill himself if you go paragon. Kind of like with TIM.

After the blast from harbringer I would imagine it would be the easier to indoctrinate someone who is unconscience/dazed then one with complete focus. It would be a messy result, but enough to attempt to get the job done.

[Jaze55]

Cucobr wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

MassEffected555, is pretty simple.

I made you a simple question, and you simply avoid it. And then continues to post the same thing over and over again.

You can't denied the Indoctrination Theory because you can't answer what I ask.

Actually no I won't answer. You are just going to call me a troll again, not wasting my time with you.

Have a nice day though. 

of couse you won't.

because you can't

Like I said, is simple.

And to give you an idea, a person can be indoctrinated quickly. The Codex says it.
which clearly you conveniently excluded.
But this is not the question that I did, this is just another fact that you can not counter-argument.

No I won't because you are a rude POS and I don't waste my time answering question of rude POS. have a nice day.

I already made my point.

have a nice day too.

No you called me a troll because you don't agree with what I said, you made my point. 

Anyway say and think what you want whatever makes you feel better I really don't care. 

[campozx6]

Before you read this:

1.  We are all free to make our own story choices in the Mass Effect trilogy, I'm not saying that anybody made wrong choices.
2.  Doesn't matter how creative and brilliant Bioware was while creating the mass effect trilogy, if they do not somehow add a proper ending (that explains the random mess as it stands at the moment then they did indeed drop the ball in the last 15 mins.
 
Here we go:

Well, for me still the question is not if Shepard is indoctrinated... it's rather: are you? the real player... the person that has spent hours of gameplay to fight the reapers.  Spent money on ME 2 -  3 to continue the fight and once and for all shut the reapers up, after they so many times told you that you will not succeed!

People actually chose not to destroy the Reapers, (don't get me wrong, you are all entitled to play the game how you want to, and make your own choices)  From the very first indoctrinated enemy,  Shepard has been battling to convince them that they just can't see the truth, that they are being controled.  In the "fictional minds" of those "fictional caracters" they were not.  They could always justify their actions, where for us playing as Shepard, we just could not make them see that they were being manipulated by the reapers. 

The fact is, bioware managed to do something that no other has ever been able to do, take a make believe story and bring it out of the pixelated realm of art into something true and real! In my view, choosing control or join basically meant indoctrination.  The only person that could make that choice was you, the real person behing the controler.  The whole point of the reapers were that they could manipulate their victims subliminally, make them not even realise what was happening to them until it was too late. 

I must admit, that freaky little boy actually had me think about my choices too... made me not wan't to kill the reapers, made me think that maybe I could control them... but then I realised, saren, TIM and all the other caracters sat in exactly the same position.  In the end I chose to destroy them, this was the only choice that up until that point in the mass effect story has actually not happened. Not one character could resist them. 

Bioware with the aid of colours, repetition, emotions and ambiance managed to "indoctrinate" many gamers.  If those reapers were real, I can fully see how many people could fall under their spell.

Thank you Bioware for the most fantastic ride I have ever had playing a game, but please listen to your customers... 

GIVE US CLOSURE

[cinderburster]

[quote]jaze89 wrote...

[quote]MassEffected555 wrote...

PRUNED.

I think you're a troll but regardless even if you aren't you've not even been close to being civil and when someone tries to give a counter point all you say, paraphrased, "IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THAN YOU BELIEVE IN SPACE MAGIC THEREFORE YOU CAN'T HATE THE ENDING LOLOLOLOL!"

That doesn't scream civility to me, not in the least.[/quote]

Because it's true?

If you are going to allow Shepard to all of a sudden be able to do something previously impossible according to the lore and mechanics of the Mass Effect world then why is it not OK to allow the writers to incorperate something that was previously not in the game? (meaning the Catalyst and ... ugh space magic?

Both scenerios don't fit into the lore and mechanics of the game. 

Someone please tell me if I am making no sense because it seems like a pretty simple and rational comparision to me. 

[/quote]

Well I think I put out the point that it's never said to be impossible, it has been said by an Asari scientist from the evidence she has about a race of machines that is not well known that suggestions can't be ignored. Everyone so far has been unable to beat indoctrination but a strong-willed few have broken from suggestions for brief moments Benezia and Saren. Doesn't that disprove that suggestions can't ignored and in fact can be if only for brief moments? These are people that are already indoctrinated and people are arguing that Shepard isn't indoctrinated but is in the process of being indoctrinated. Why is it beyond the realm of possibility that a human that's proven time and again to beat the impossible (killing multiple Reapers, surviving the trip through Omega 4 Relay and back, and surviving what was thought to be an impossible suicide mission) can't break away from the process of indoctrination?[/quote]

Especially when we consider the part of the Codex entry on indoctrination that implies it can be done quickly.  Reapers prefer not to because an agent that looks perfectly normal is more useful than one that begins to show signs of corruption.  If a subject is indoctrinated quickly, signs show within a few weeks.

Shepard loses consciousness practically at Harbinger's feet.  Why would it be impossible for Harbinger to attempt to indoctrinate Shepard from that point?  Why is it assumed the VI saying Shep wasn't indoctrinated means that s/he can't be?

Oh for the love of--FORMATTING.  So much h8.  My comment is in bold. <_<

Modifié par cinderburster, 19 mars 2012 - 10:41 .

[CrimsonFrost1]

Grusome11 wrote...

CrimsonFrost1 wrote...

CavScout wrote...

wtbusername wrote...

Liquoid wrote...

Xerkysz wrote...


I'm still waiting for someone to give actual reasoning and proof to why it's false, instead of screaming GRASPINGATSTRAWS.JPG L3L3L3L3L3L3L

ditto

Thirded.

If that's a word.

Is this how you guys admit that you can't actually support, with proof, your theory claims and so instead petulantly demand it be disproven?

I fully support the "theory" or "interpretation", I'll say that first. Cav is actually right though, the people who are so adamant about forcing others to disprove it are essentially using the same argument as religous zealots: "If you can't disprove my deity, then he/she/it must be real!" Unfortunately, that's not how the scientific method works, and even in that method, "theory" is only *part* of the process.

However! If we wish to be civil about this, we could work together and come up with theories, or revised editions of them, and the naysayers could constructively poke holes in them and we could come up with answers to plug those holes. Thus, making the theory even stronger... Just a thought.

That's what I thought we were doing.

There's nothing civil about it from what I've seen here...

It's on the "state" to provide the burden of absolute proof. Sooooo, in this case, the people who support the Indoctrination theory would be the "state", and the people trying to poke holes in the theory would be the defense (of disagreement).

The only problem with all of this is that from both sides it's all completely conjecture; Neither side knows whether they're right or wrong. No matter what the developers have said on Facebook... Specifically, I think they said there are no plans, currently, to change the ending of Mass Effect 3. In a literal sense, that still leaves "adding to the ending" as a very viable option, which gives more hope (and nothing else) that Indoctrination Theory is correct. It's not proof though.

[ArkkAngel007]

nyogen wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

nyogen wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

DnVill wrote...

I don't get why Indoctrination believers ask for proof why it is false when the indoctrination theory's proof itself is mere speculation.

We'll never know until Bioware devs stop celebrating and start fixing.

I am not asking to prove that IT is wrong and I don't think anyone else is.

I am simply saying that IT makes the most sense of what we have seen. I do not ask the other side to prove that IT is not true, its a theory, it is not necessarily true, by definition. Evolution is a theory, not a truth.

However, if you want to come and poke hole it the theory you are welcome to. It serves the function of making the theory stronger if we can explain the problems. This is a thread about Indoc Theory, so if you are going to argue that it is wrong, it is expected that you might have to give some reasons.

However, if you come in here and keep repeating things that are not true or have been refuted already, such as indoctrination works a certain way because I said so, or the hero of a story can't do something that no one else has done, when it is obvious that the hero has done those things, don't expect to get understand and sympathy.

It is true that only BW will be able to settle if IT is correct or not.

Oh, well, then too bad they already did that like 16 hours ago:

"We
would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all
player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this
time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not
made a decision regarding requests to change the ending."

www.facebook.com/masseffect/posts/275243029217754

But by all means look for the details that support your fan fiction deep inside the game, analyze all the movement glitches, the gazes and what not, while completely ignoring that the endings we have are the endings they wanted us to have. Bury your heads deeper into the sand and play into the the community polarization scheme they have provided for you. Why do I even bother ?

IT explains behind the ending, not a concept for changing the ending.  It's not a fan fiction.  Some people may be pulling things from thin air in attempts to try and prove it, but the core theory is using what the game provides to EXPLAIN, not fill or replace, the plot holes.

It's speculation.  It doesn't change/replace/refute the endings.  It isn't meant to declare/confirm post-game DLC.

So to your question, you probably shouldn't if you don't understand why the theory came about in the first place, instead of judging it by the excited jumpstarters who throw it around like candy at a parade.

You know you're posting in a thread where the OP is doing exactly that, right ? "Some people may be pulling things from thin air in attempts to try and prove it"

As for speculation you are totally entitled to but then people that like yourself seem reasonable and like minded should IMHO try to put some distance between you and the "thin airers" who probably just need a hug.

As for myself I didn't invest that much in this trilogy to speculate my endings in my head, but again you are totally entitled to, in the end everyone gets what everyone wants to get.

As for myself, I want my endings from Bioware, and if those endings should be about indoctrination so be it but stop pretending you masterminds saw through the big game scheme and understood the devious master plot behind it, such conspiracy theories are ludicrous at best, all the while when the RL evidence comes in play and nothing adds up to it.

Would it have been an interesting plot twist ? Sure BUT IT WASN'T. And they are pondering whether or not to listen to the fan base and CHANGE the ending... if this doesn't go through nothing else will.

I can't stop the OP from posting threads.  I can't close them.  I haven't really replied to the OPs post yet due to others who are starkly against IT misunderstanding what it is and all entails.  This includes twisting PR statements, lore, etc to fit their arguments.  And again, IT supporters do it too.  Both are guilty of causing this issue where those who are against how BioWare executed the ending are divided; only because of different perspectives.

[Mann42]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Anyway it doesn't matter. It was never planned to be part of the ending so your theory if effectivly shot.

We are aware that there are concerns about a recent post from this account regarding the ending of the game. In this post it was stated that at this time we do not have plans to change the ending.

We would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending.

Your feedback and opinions are of the utmost importance to us. We apologize for any confusion this has caused. Our top priority regarding this discussion is to keep communication with you, our loyal fans, open and productive.

http://www.facebook....275243029217754

Really no point in talking about it anymore. It was never a super secret plan from BW.

I guarantee you that the person that wrote that Facebook post knows absolutely nothing about the company's plan, and only knows what the developers are doing when they receive an email, phone call, or have a meeting about it. It looks like your standard PR deflection, just like Casey's statement the other night (but I'd trust Casey more because he probably goes to lunch with developers). 

The development team could have always had a downloadable ending planned from the start of the project, and nobody in the company would have known until the Leads starting ramping people up on it. Each department would know exactly when they needed to know, and like every corporation, I'm sure that communication is less than stellar. 

And if they did plan this from the start, you have to believe that it would be a super secret project. After all the script leaks, and leaks in general, this was probably kept as a secret to all but executives until they decided to pull the trigger. If this was planned, I don't think they expected this type of backlash. 

However, considering what a large Public Relations machine Bioware has been forced to put together thanks to their passionate fanbase and a new MMO, it would be a waste NOT to start a controversy once and a while. If they know it's coming, they might even be able to spin it in their favor. I mean, people were offering to pay money for a new ending the day the game came out. Based on EA's history for controversial stunts, I don't think this is outside the realm of possibility.

Modifié par nexworks, 19 mars 2012 - 10:45 .

[jakal66]

jaze89 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

jaze89 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Denora wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

stop feeding the troll guys.

See? Anyone that disagrees with your theory and provides in game evidence is a troll.

I go out of my way to research and copy/paste what I find so you don't have to look for it yet I am a troll

I really find that funny. It's nice people true colors are shining through now. 

This is why, please try to keep a cool head. It's the name calling and insults that get people fired up. I welcome evidence on either case but the context of the posts is insulting and borderline harrassment. Please lets keep things civil?

I'm sure you meant well but not everyone took it that way.

Sorry it's really not my problem people are defensive. I have done nothing but be civil, provide evidence backing my cause through research, that I also took the time to provide for everyone to see, yet I am called a troll and dismissed.

I think you're a troll but regardless even if you aren't you've not even been close to being civil and when someone tries to give a counter point all you say, paraphrased, "IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THAN YOU BELIEVE IN SPACE MAGIC THEREFORE YOU CAN'T HATE THE ENDING LOLOLOLOL!"

That doesn't scream civility to me, not in the least.

Because it's true?

If you are going to allow Shepard to all of a sudden be able to do something previously impossible according to the lore and mechanics of the Mass Effect world then why is it not OK to allow the writers to incorperate something that was previously not in the game? (meaning the Catalyst and ... ugh space magic?

Both scenerios don't fit into the lore and mechanics of the game. 

Someone please tell me if I am making no sense because it seems like a pretty simple and rational comparision to me. 

Well I think I put out the point that it's never said to be impossible, it has been said by an Asari scientist from the evidence she has about a race of machines that is not well known that suggestions can't be ignored. Everyone so far has been unable to beat indoctrination but a strong-willed few have broken from suggestions for brief moments Benezia and Saren. Doesn't that disprove that suggestions can't ignored and in fact can be if only for brief moments? These are people that are already indoctrinated and people are arguing that Shepard isn't indoctrinated but is in the process of being indoctrinated. Why is it beyond the realm of possibility that a human that's proven time and again to beat the impossible (killing multiple Reapers, surviving the trip through Omega 4 Relay and back, and surviving what was thought to be an impossible suicide mission) can't break away from the process of indoctrination?

Because people want to have the ME2 ending all over again,save everyone,be a total saint or bad ass and have no consequences,marry their LI and have children....Indoc theory is the only theory that makes sense in this mess.I'm not saying it's 100% bulletproof but which plot is,starwars is an example of that.Anyways,to those who can'r belive it, why in hell does he wake up on earth taking that breath,I mean if he was up there literally how did he come down,where are his squadmates,for me everything between the laser beam and the breath is either a dream(harry potter kinda dream which would be so stupid) or Indoc( the whole sequence with the illusive man is reaking with indoctrination) and if we do get an ending it will be beyond the point of that breath sequence...all the other endings you died, like in me2....I may be 100% wrong or 30 % right or whatever but it's what makes sense to me....

[Grusome11]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

There is anothe rthread up about why Indoc Theory is wrong.

However, IT is the only thing out there that explains the huge plot hole and illogic regarding what the starchild says.

The usual way to disprove a theory is to replace it with another one that better explains the facts.

If IT is wrong, how do you explain the huge plot hole and illogic in the final ten minutes?

I can't. That's why i am part of Take Back Mass Effect.

But the Indoc Theory opens up new plot holes and honestly is no better. It actually BREAKS the lore and mechanics while the ending we got only adds - some extremely weird and random - elements to the ME universe. 

IT is the best theory out there to explain the plot holes. It doesn't break the lore.

[cinderburster]

Grusome11 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Grusome11 wrote...

There is anothe rthread up about why Indoc Theory is wrong.

However, IT is the only thing out there that explains the huge plot hole and illogic regarding what the starchild says.

The usual way to disprove a theory is to replace it with another one that better explains the facts.

If IT is wrong, how do you explain the huge plot hole and illogic in the final ten minutes?

I can't. That's why i am part of Take Back Mass Effect.

But the Indoc Theory opens up new plot holes and honestly is no better. It actually BREAKS the lore and mechanics while the ending we got only adds - some extremely weird and random - elements to the ME universe. 

IT is the best theory out there to explain the plot holes. It doesn't break the lore.

I've been trying to say that since I started posting in this topic, but I guess a few pages of explanation is too much to read. ;~;

[Vandicus]

Just a point to those who question the possibility of Shepard being indoctrinated over time or indoctrinated quickly, the accepted face value ending pretty much renders the question moot.

TIM manages to nearly indoctrinated Shepard in a matter of seconds, despite Shepard's supposed strong will. Logic dictates that Reapers would be even more effective at this, so if you believe the endings were not indoctrination, YOU MUST CONCLUDE THAT IT WAS POSSIBLE FOR HARBINGER TO INDOCTRINATE SHEPARD AT THE LAST SECOND.

Sorry about the caps, but its to try to draw attention to the conclusion of the reasoning. But anyways, it establishes that, regardless of whether indoctrination happened or not, it was undeniably possible according to Indoctrination Theory or the ending taken at face value.

[buchoi]

I just hope they change it - this guys has some good ideas -

Modifié par buchoi, 19 mars 2012 - 10:53 .

[Cucobr]

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

Cucobr wrote...

MassEffected555, is pretty simple.

I made you a simple question, and you simply avoid it. And then continues to post the same thing over and over again.

You can't denied the Indoctrination Theory because you can't answer what I ask.

Actually no I won't answer. You are just going to call me a troll again, not wasting my time with you.

Have a nice day though. 

of couse you won't.

because you can't

Like I said, is simple.

And to give you an idea, a person can be indoctrinated quickly. The Codex says it.
which clearly you conveniently excluded.
But this is not the question that I did, this is just another fact that you can not counter-argument.

No I won't because you are a rude POS and I don't waste my time answering question of rude POS. have a nice day.

I already made my point.

have a nice day too.

No you called me a troll because you don't agree with what I said, you made my point. 

Anyway say and think what you want whatever makes you feel better I really don't care. 

No, I called you a troll because you avoid things that you can't answer.
says lies about the codex to sustain your argument.

and continues posting the same things irrelevant to respond another reply.

that is the why.

[jakal66]

I think it's clear that they didn't want to Indoctrinate him fast....