758 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain Shakespeare]

Nothing in "Final Hours" either confirms or denies IT, and Bioware did a lot of hasty back-tracking regarding that Facebook post.

[Xerkysz]

Wikkr wrote...

Just gonna point out to you that when anderson talks about seeing something up ahead (the room with the terminal) you can already see into that room. Also while yes its possible for the walls to move the room itself shows no sign of being reshaped as your approaching it also when you look around the floor that your stood on is specificly shaped to conform to the single entrance you came through. im sure anderson would have mentioned if the floor started rotating/changing

^ This.

[DrFrankenseuss]

I'm pretty sure Anderson says it looks like how Shep described the collector's base, which it really doesn't. Most of the collector's base looked like the inside of a cave besides the occasional flying platform. Maybe he just ment the webbing on the walls in the first room.

[DarkSeraphym]

I think that when Anderson was referring to the Collector Base, he was referring to the bodies that you discover on the Collector Ship. The writers probably implied that Shepard saw more of those piles on the Suicide Mission, even though they weren't really sitting around in the actual level designs.

[Erethrian]

Captain Shakespeare wrote...

Let's clarify. No one is right, no one is wrong. Not yet, at least. This is a textbook case of Shrodinger's cat. Neither side has adequate proof to state with certainty that they are correct. So until an official statement is made, you're arguing a moot point.

I agree, and btw, I believe in the Indoctrination Theory. If I say Indoctrination Interpretation it sounds to me like: "I like the endings we have because it's indoctrination", and I don't feel that way, I feel more like "I believe in the indoctrination theory so I want to know how it ends once Shepard is awake".

Modifié par Erethrian, 19 mars 2012 - 11:35 .

[MadRabbit999]

Liquoid wrote...

Morrden, I'd like to hear your input onto why Shepard's eyes during Control and Synthesis options become blue and adopt a texture that bears striking similarity to The Illusive Man's eyes.

Mind you, we know for a fact that The Illusive Man is definitely indoctrinated.

Collectors controlled by Reapers, kill Sheperd

Illusive man controlled by Reapers, Resurrect Sheperd...

TIM had his eyes since ME2, so contradiction much?

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 19 mars 2012 - 11:39 .

[d1st4nt]

CavScout wrote...

One does not prove a negative. How about your "prove" your theory instead of demanding it be disproved?

They have provided proof of their claims just as much as you can provide proof of your counter.  The issue here is that you haven't defined, nor can you provide for your own point of view, what you would constitute as undeniable proof.

I happen to agree that it was a matter of being out of time and not some grandiose conpsiracy.  But like OP, I have no proof, just strings of evidence I feel support my point of view.

Modifié par d1st4nt, 19 mars 2012 - 11:41 .

[v0rt3x22]

You forgot a lot of other details actually. Mainly the Mako in the ending.

[thebigbad1013]

Honestly, I choose to believe in the indoctrination theory simply because it is the only way the last minutes makes any kind of sense to me. I thought something seemed...off about everything that happened after Shepard went back to the citadel, especially the whole Shepard/Anderson/Illusive Man confrontation seems strange and off to me when I played it. If I leave out the indoctrination theory and just look at the ending as it is presented...it just doesn't make any kind of sense. None whatsoever. Right or wrong, the indoctrination theory is the only thing that makes sense to me.

[Midnight Eternal]

Most of what I see in the Indoctrination "theory" are logical fallacies. For example

If people are indoctrinated, they have bad dreams.
People have bad dreams.
Therefore, people who have bad dreams are indoctrinated.

This is simply not true because there are a multitude of causes of bad dreams. That being the case, you cannot simply state that because Shepard has bad dreams he is indoctrinated. Which invalidates this argument entirely.

I suggest the board goers supporting this "theory" learn what logical fallacies are and re-examine their arguments before proclaiming it is proof.

I have no problem with people examining contextual clues and looking for answers. But do it intelligently so you don't look like complete morons if proven wrong.

Much respect and keep up the work, but as I said, just be careful what you proclaim as proof.

[DrFrankenseuss]

Did anyone notice that when you're in the citadel there are massive holes in the floor that you can just walk over? In the chasm that leads to the platform with the console.

[Xerkysz]

DrFrankenseuss wrote...

Did anyone notice that when you're in the citadel there are massive holes in the floor that you can just walk over? In the chasm that leads to the platform with the console.

I thought it was glass till it showed no reflections and I could shoot through it xP

[GnusmasTHX]

Midnight Eternal wrote...

Most of what I see in the Indoctrination "theory" are logical fallacies. For example

If people are indoctrinated, they have bad dreams.
People have bad dreams.
Therefore, people who have bad dreams are indoctrinated.

This is simply not true because there are a multitude of causes of bad dreams. That being the case, you cannot simply state that because Shepard has bad dreams he is indoctrinated. Which invalidates this argument entirely.

I suggest the board goers supporting this "theory" learn what logical fallacies are and re-examine their arguments before proclaiming it is proof.

I have no problem with people examining contextual clues and looking for answers. But do it intelligently so you don't look like complete morons if proven wrong.

Much respect and keep up the work, but as I said, just be careful what you proclaim as proof.

That doesn't address that the dream sequences are meant to be considered and add to the narrative. So either they're evidence of Indoctrination or something else. And something else going to suck by virtue of it not being indoctrination, because I honestly don't give a **** about that kid.

Though to be fair, they had something with the dead character whispers, it's evident that the focus is on that dumb kid, so anyone who thinks about it is forced between choosing either Indoctrination or it's just a dumb, unskippable scene that adds nothing and disjoints the narrative in a stupid and silly way.

And to be ultra fair, the dream sequences would've been guddamn great if they were about the VS, Pressley, Mordin, Thane and Legion (those are the only people dead in my game that I'd care about seeing, if I were having nightmares about the casualties of the war)

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 19 mars 2012 - 12:06 .

[d1st4nt]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Midnight Eternal wrote...

Most of what I see in the Indoctrination "theory" are logical fallacies. For example

If people are indoctrinated, they have bad dreams.
People have bad dreams.
Therefore, people who have bad dreams are indoctrinated.

This is simply not true because there are a multitude of causes of bad dreams. That being the case, you cannot simply state that because Shepard has bad dreams he is indoctrinated. Which invalidates this argument entirely.

I suggest the board goers supporting this "theory" learn what logical fallacies are and re-examine their arguments before proclaiming it is proof.

I have no problem with people examining contextual clues and looking for answers. But do it intelligently so you don't look like complete morons if proven wrong.

Much respect and keep up the work, but as I said, just be careful what you proclaim as proof.

That doesn't address that the dream sequences are meant to be considered and add to the narrative. So either they're evidence of Indoctrination or something else. And something else going to suck by virtue of it not being indoctrination, because I honestly don't give a **** about that kid.

Though to be fair, they had something with the dead character whispers, it's evident that the focus is on that dumb kid, so anyone who thinks about it is forced between choosing either Indoctrination or it's just a dumb, unskippable scene that adds nothing and disjoints the narrative in a stupid and silly way.

Really?  If it's not indoctrination (which I'm not convinced it is)... it shows the same sort of humanity in Shephard that his reactions to the crew after Thessia does.  This is the first time he's felt helpless... he's Space Jesus and couldn't even save a little defenseless kid from an attack.  As the whispers add on, they're everyone else he feels helpless for being unable to rescue them from their fate.

[MadRabbit999]

Midnight Eternal wrote...

Most of what I see in the Indoctrination "theory" are logical fallacies. For example

If people are indoctrinated, they have bad dreams.
People have bad dreams.
Therefore, people who have bad dreams are indoctrinated.

This is simply not true because there are a multitude of causes of bad dreams. That being the case, you cannot simply state that because Shepard has bad dreams he is indoctrinated. Which invalidates this argument entirely.

I suggest the board goers supporting this "theory" learn what logical fallacies are and re-examine their arguments before proclaiming it is proof.

I have no problem with people examining contextual clues and looking for answers. But do it intelligently so you don't look like complete morons if proven wrong.

Much respect and keep up the work, but as I said, just be careful what you proclaim as proof.

I am not supporting either theory, but what you said about the dreams is also debatable..

If dreams meant nothing more than dreams, then why eren't they present in the previous games? Why have they been given focus in ME3?

If they are narrating a story.. they would not put elements that have nothing to do with it... like a scene where Shepard takes a ****** for example (OMG He is peeing,... Indoctrination!!!).

[Midnight Eternal]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

That doesn't address that the dream sequences are meant to be considered and add to the narrative. So either they're evidence of Indoctrination or something else. And something else going to suck by virtue of it not being indoctrination, because I honestly don't give a **** about that kid.

Though to be fair, they had something with the dead character whispers, it's evident that the focus is on that dumb kid, so anyone who thinks about it is forced between choosing either Indoctrination or it's just a dumb, unskippable scene that adds nothing and disjoints the narrative in a stupid and silly way.

And to be ultra fair, the dream sequences would've been guddamn great if they were about the VS, Pressley, Mordin, Thane and Legion (those are the only people dead in my game that I'd care about seeing, if I were having nightmares about the casualties of the war)

Fair enough, but if that's what they were trying to sell I'm not buying.

Consider what Shepard has been through.
Death (literally), stress and trauma due to this.
Likely has mild PTSD before 3 even begins, granted I can only speculate on this, but seems likely.

IMO, the previously listed above are more likely to provide the nightmares of sorts that he is having rather than indoctrination, but we have no template to compare what indoctrination dreams "look" like.

All I wish to assert is that this one point, the dreams(nightmares) he has provide evidence he is indoctrinated, is false. Solely because indoctrination is not the only thing that can cause nightmares.

[Paragon Auducan]

What i don't understand is the people who deny the Theory. People who believe the Theory DO NOT accept the ending as being 'good'.

We HATE it, if it is true then we weren't given an actual ending BUT it does mean it can easily be rectified.

Do I believe that the dev team suddenly lost the plot in the last 10 minutes or do I support a theory with overwhelming evidence and suggests things aren't over yet.

Until we are told one way or the other stop bashing people for having hope.

Modifié par Paragon Auducan, 19 mars 2012 - 12:27 .

[Midnight Eternal]

MadRabbit999 wrote...


I am not supporting either theory, but what you said about the dreams is also debatable..

If dreams meant nothing more than dreams, then why eren't they present in the previous games? Why have they been given focus in ME3?

If they are narrating a story.. they would not put elements that have nothing to do with it... like a scene where Shepard takes a ****** for example (OMG He is peeing,... Indoctrination!!!).

I never said that they were merely dreams, merely provided that a factual principle invalidates the "The bad dreams are cause by indoctrination" point.

You right though, it would be ludicrous to add dreams to a narrative that had no purpose. But do you honestly mean to tell me these dreams give you no exposistion on what is going on in Shepard's mind? That's what personally believe the dreams are there for. To show you not only what is going on around him physically, but mentally as well. This is merely my opinion though, I honestly can't admit I know the creator's vision for the series. Honestly, they are the only ones that do know. So when fans proclaim they know what the creator's are doing when they are not the creator's irks me and makes them appear pretentious to me.

I feel their pain and disappointment however. It's a shameful way to end the game.

[MadRabbit999]

Paragon Auducan wrote...

What i don't understand is the people who deny the Theory. People who believe the Theory DO NOT accept the ending as being 'good'.

We HATE it, if it is true then we weren't given an actual ending BUT it does mean it can easily be rectified.

Do I believe that the dev team suddenly lost the plot in the last 10 minutes or do I support a theory with overwhelming evidence and suggests things aren't over yet.

It could also be wishful thinking, which we are all grasping for when we are not happy with how things turns out (Human nature and all that).

[Captain Shakespeare]

I'm firmly undecided. If that makes sense.

[CavScout]

wtbusername wrote...

CavScout wrote...

Is this how you guys admit that you can't actually support, with proof, your theory claims and so instead petulantly demand it be disproven?

No, it's called giving the doctor a taste of their own medicine.

Even though you or many may call the 'evidence' circumstantial, the 'seeds' of theory are there, planted.

The Final Hours app is actually confirmation of this, which most people tend to ignore.

Your argument, people who oppose this theory, ends up crediting everything to Space Magic.

I know what I'd rather believe in.

Giving the doctor a taste of his own medicine? What?

[CavScout]

nullobject wrote...

Nice proof OP.
I've tried a similar thing from a different angle.

What proof? His "theory" rests on others disproving it....

[Cucobr]

There isnt no other explain that beat indocritnation.

No other make sense.

Shepard wake up at the end is a ULTIMATE PROOF.

[CavScout]

Cucobr wrote...

There isnt no other explain that beat indocritnation.

No other make sense.

Shepard wake up at the end is a ULTIMATE PROOF.

You seem to be confused on what proof is....

[Midnight Eternal]

CavScout wrote...

nullobject wrote...

Nice proof OP.
I've tried a similar thing from a different angle.

What proof? His "theory" rests on others disproving it....

Reminds me of an Ayn Rand quote, it might be off by a couple words but it's the jist of it.

"One cannot be called upon to prove an untruth."