758 réponses à ce sujet

[Capeo]

Cucobr wrote...

Shepard wake up ONLY at the end if you choose to destroy the reapers..

So.. confirms IT.

No that is proof IT is bogus.  It confrms the other two are real because Shep's body get's consumed in those hence he can't "wake up".  If he could wake up no matter the ending then IT would have a leg to stand on.

[Tsantilas]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yes.. because the Catalyst was lying.. Shepard was not destroying all syntethic life, but only the reapers.
Next.

Nope.  Do you ever see a living geth after the ending?  This is what pisses me off about the whole indoctrination theory.  You people are using things that aren't shown in the game as so called "proof".  Unless I see Geth walking around you cannot assume **** about the catalyst lying.

[Capeo]

"We are aware that there are concerns about a recent post from this account regarding the ending of the game. In this post it was stated that at this time we do not have plans to change the ending.

We would like to clarify that we are actively and seriously taking all player feedback into consideration and have ruled nothing out. At this time we are still collecting and considering your feedback and have not made a decision regarding requests to change the ending."

From the Bioware FB page. Get over it conspiracy theorists. These are the endings they always intended. They originally stated that they aren't changing the endings then did a little PR backtracking when the boards literally exploded last night and lockdowns were being handed out like candy. but their intent is clear. The reason the endings match everything that has been leaked and everything in the app is because these are the real endings.

[MadRabbit999]

Tsantilas wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yes.. because the Catalyst was lying.. Shepard was not destroying all syntethic life, but only the reapers.
Next.

Nope.  Do you ever see a living geth after the ending?  This is what pisses me off about the whole indoctrination theory.  You people are using things that aren't shown in the game as so called "proof".  Unless I see Geth walking around you cannot assume **** about the catalyst lying.

I am not in favour of either theory,  I am happy with the way the endings are, and I am satisfied in making up my own conclusions.

The same concept goes both ways.. you cannot proof that they didn;t survive either...

How is that controlling the reaper does not destroy the Citadel?  The Catalyst said all Mass Relays would be destroyed.

But the Citadel... that too is a Mass Relay.. Oh no..! The Catalyst was lying... again..!!!

-.-

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 19 mars 2012 - 01:51 .

[nullobject]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Yes, exactly.. Shepard is partially syntethic because he needs them to live. .they are not there for fun...

The Catalyst does not have to spell it out loud, it is pretty obvious.

Clearly it isn't pretty obvious, because with a high enough EMS, Shepard survives even with the synthetic parts destroyed.  Next.

Yes.. because the Catalyst was lying.. Shepard was not destroying all syntethic life, but only the reapers.
Next.

I'm totally holding the line with Indoc, but sometimes I wonder....

If the Catalyst could lie about that, why couldn't he just lie a little more? You know, "Pay no attention to the red thing on the right of the Endingtron 3000, there are only two options here, Blue and Green" (So I guess really he'd be saying it's an Endingtron 2000 in a 3000 case).

Wouldn't that have worked out better for him?

Modifié par nullobject, 19 mars 2012 - 02:01 .

[golyoscsapagy]

So um, what's the point or consequence of this theory? I mean shep was indoctrinated, yeah and? I mean you write a whole wall of text but I terribly miss the assumption -> proof -> consequence logical chain.

[Tsantilas]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

I am not in favour of either theory,  I am happy with the way the endings are, and I am satisfied in making up my own conclusions.

The same concept goes both ways.. you cannot proof that they didn;t survive either...

How is that controlling the reaper does not destroy the Citadel?  The Catalyst said all Mass Relays would be destroyed.

But the Citadel... that too is a Mass Relay.. Oh no..! The Catalyst was lying... again..!!!

-.-

Space magic? The control firework isn't as explosive? Plot hole? Whatever.  It doesn't prove the indoctrination theory though.  Either way, the endings are too vague to draw any solid conclusions about anything, which is pretty much why everyone is ****ing about them in the first place.  I don't even know what happens to the 2 people that charged with me for the crucible, let alone the rest of the galaxy.  One of them magically teleports to the Normandy, but the other one is MIA?  This whole ending is a cluster**** of inconsistencies and stupid contradictions.

[Xerkysz]

valor163 wrote...

Also after looking at your pictures i noticed Javik and Ashley in you crashed Normandy pic.

I did the final mission with Garrus and EDI and it was them that got out of the Normandy at that point...
i thought it was just coincidence that the characters i chose happened to suddenly teleport to the Normandy but it seems as though that scene changes depending on who you bought with you to Earth.

Mine was my LI and Javik
Had Garrus and Javik with me on the final mission

[Xerkysz]

valor163 wrote...

Xerkysz wrote...


I'm still waiting for someone to give actual reasoning and proof to why it's false, instead of screaming GRASPINGATSTRAWS.JPG L3L3L3L3L3L3L

Unfortunatly Burden of Proof is on you.
I agree with the Indoctrination theory and think if Bioware have pulled this off then it is brilliant.
make us wait while screaming out for "The real ending" Offering to throw money at them for it...

We have all been Indoctrinated... by Bioware...

Bingo.

[MadRabbit999]

Tsantilas wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

I am not in favour of either theory,  I am happy with the way the endings are, and I am satisfied in making up my own conclusions.

The same concept goes both ways.. you cannot proof that they didn;t survive either...

How is that controlling the reaper does not destroy the Citadel?  The Catalyst said all Mass Relays would be destroyed.

But the Citadel... that too is a Mass Relay.. Oh no..! The Catalyst was lying... again..!!!

-.-

Space magic? The control firework isn't as explosive? Plot hole? Whatever.  It doesn't prove the indoctrination theory though.  Either way, the endings are too vague to draw any solid conclusions about anything, which is pretty much why everyone is ****ing about them in the first place.  I don't even know what happens to the 2 people that charged with me for the crucible, let alone the rest of the galaxy.  One of them magically teleports to the Normandy, but the other one is MIA?  This whole ending is a cluster**** of inconsistencies and stupid contradictions.

No.. space magic my ass.... the writers made the citadel explode in red and green ending, they were conscious of not making it explpode in the blue ending, try antoher one.

The teleport thing is clearly a plothole or an assumption that your friends were not needed to charge into the shaft of light (At least that was my first impressions) I never questioned this until I read it online.

[im commander shep]

Out of interest to the people who don't belive indoctrination/dream/hallucination theory what do you think of the final scene after the destroy option of shepard taking a breath on what looks like the rubble of london.
For me this is the key to the theory, well that there is more to come and that he was never on the citadel. (The story/mechanic of what happened prior to that is always going to be up for debate.)
This is the biggest plot hole out of place scene, (among many others) just how would have bioware left this scene in when in current context of the end it just raises new questions and makes no sense what so ever, (among many others)
Until Bioware comes out and explains why the current ending makes sense and isn't confusing as hell. I'm sticking with indoctrination theory as its the simplist and fits the evidence of what we see in the ending and throughout the game.

Shepard Out

[Tsantilas]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

No.. space magic my ass.... the writers made the citadel explode in red and green ending, they were conscious of not making it explpode in the blue ending, try antoher one.

The teleport thing is clearly a plothole or an assumption that your friends were not needed to charge into the shaft of light (At least that was my first impressions) I never questioned this until I read it online.

Please... countless cycles ago someone designed a huge superweapon without knowing how it works, what it does, or how it interracts with "the catalyst", and then in every cycle until our time, all the civilizations added something to it without knowing how it works, what it does, or how it interracts with "the catalyst", but you're trying to find a logical explanation for something as minor as "the citadel didn't explode in the blue ending"?  If space magic applies to the crucible, then I don't have an issue with it applying to the Control ending.  They're both equally retarded in my eyes.

[Tsantilas]

im commander shep wrote...

Out of interest to the people who don't belive indoctrination/dream/hallucination theory what do you think of the final scene after the destroy option of shepard taking a breath on what looks like the rubble of london.
For me this is the key to the theory, well that there is more to come and that he was never on the citadel. (The story/mechanic of what happened prior to that is always going to be up for debate.)
This is the biggest plot hole out of place scene, (among many others) just how would have bioware left this scene in when in current context of the end it just raises new questions and makes no sense what so ever, (among many others)
Until Bioware comes out and explains why the current ending makes sense and isn't confusing as hell. I'm sticking with indoctrination theory as its the simplist and fits the evidence of what we see in the ending and throughout the game.

Shepard Out

There is no sign that it's in London.  All you see is rubble and a chestpiece moving, with no context as to it's location.  For all we know, the citadel crashed into the earth with Shepard on it, and he survived because you gathered enough troops (aka space magic).  Really it's all just a huge ****ing mess.

[harvestboygoobus]

Xerkysz wrote...

*SNIP*

As far as I see it, Indoc is the science side of things, and people who don't believe in it are the Christians.

You guys have beliefs and masses, with everyone saying the same thing (Grasping for Straws, Sound familiar?), we have results.

Results > Beliefs.

*SNIP*

You girls are trying to lay the blame for the endings on us instead of BioWare.

There are no holes in indoctrination theory.  Keep trying

You know, I fully agree with you that the indoctrination theory seems accurate. I don't totally agree on the lack of holes, though. I certainly think there might be some holes in the theory, but I think whatever holes there are can be explained away, and are far outweighed by the support for the Indoctrination theory.

That said, I did take some offense at a couple of throwaway comments you made in your original post. First of all, the "Christians" comment? Unnecessary and completely immature. I mean, really? Comparing a group of people that you disagree with and who interpret a video game's ending differently than you, to history's largest, most influential religious movement? You effectly called all Christians blind fools. It's just immature and undermines your point. And what was the purpose of it? I'm assuming it's just more of the "I can post whatever I want, because it's the internet, and hating religion is cool nowadays, right?" bravado that I see everywhere online. Frankly, it's just an ignorant and stupid thing to say, and wasn't needed in the slightest.

Second all, the "girls" comment at the end? More unnecessary bravado. I doubt that you meant any offense by it, and I'm certainly not calling you sexist, but it really just wasn't necessary. Bioware has a massive female fanbase (my own wife included), and comments like that only serve to polarize and divide. If we are going to sit here and "Hold the Line" then you need to consider comments like that and the jab against Christians more carefully before posting them.

[Deflagratio]

You forgot the magical, unlimited Ammo Carnifex handcannon that can't harm Keepers.

[MadRabbit999]

Tsantilas wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

No.. space magic my ass.... the writers made the citadel explode in red and green ending, they were conscious of not making it explpode in the blue ending, try antoher one.

The teleport thing is clearly a plothole or an assumption that your friends were not needed to charge into the shaft of light (At least that was my first impressions) I never questioned this until I read it online.

Please... countless cycles ago someone designed a huge superweapon without knowing how it works, what it does, or how it interracts with "the catalyst", and then in every cycle until our time, all the civilizations added something to it without knowing how it works, what it does, or how it interracts with "the catalyst", but you're trying to find a logical explanation for something as minor as "the citadel didn't explode in the blue ending"?  If space magic applies to the crucible, then I don't have an issue with it applying to the Control ending.  They're both equally retarded in my eyes.

Ever thoguht that the Crucible was another secret lie created by the reapers to make organic life waste time and give false hope? Nobody knows who designed it first.. so it can be.

You are trying to find the 1+1=2 in a sci-fi story... stop analyzing it so much... and try to let your creativity (If any) work it out..

[im commander shep]

Tsantilas wrote...

im commander shep wrote...

Out of interest to the people who don't belive indoctrination/dream/hallucination theory what do you think of the final scene after the destroy option of shepard taking a breath on what looks like the rubble of london.
For me this is the key to the theory, well that there is more to come and that he was never on the citadel. (The story/mechanic of what happened prior to that is always going to be up for debate.)
This is the biggest plot hole out of place scene, (among many others) just how would have bioware left this scene in when in current context of the end it just raises new questions and makes no sense what so ever, (among many others)
Until Bioware comes out and explains why the current ending makes sense and isn't confusing as hell. I'm sticking with indoctrination theory as its the simplist and fits the evidence of what we see in the ending and throughout the game.

Shepard Out

There is no sign that it's in London.  All you see is rubble and a chestpiece moving, with no context as to it's location.  For all we know, the citadel crashed into the earth with Shepard on it, and he survived because you gathered enough troops (aka space magic).  Really it's all just a huge ****ing mess.

I'm sorry if you truly belive SPACE MAGIC is the answer, then we all might as well forget mass effect and start watching Harry Potter.

[Tsantilas]

Xerkysz wrote...

*SNIP*

As far as I see it, Indoc is the science side of things, and people who don't believe in it are the Christians.

You guys have beliefs and masses, with everyone saying the same thing (Grasping for Straws, Sound familiar?), we have results.

Results > Beliefs.

*SNIP*

You girls are trying to lay the blame for the endings on us instead of BioWare.

There are no holes in indoctrination theory.  Keep trying

Nice try.  The Indoctrination theory is more like the "religious" crowd considering it's based on nothing but hunches and assuming that every single obscure detail can be explained by some higher power aka It was all a dream.  On the other hand the realists are continously pointing out that there is no evidence supporting the indoctrination theory and that the mostly logical explanation is that the writers simply ****ed up in an attempt to be "deep".  How many tin foil hats would you like with your fanfiction?

[Koolgool]

The indoctrination theory makes perfect sense, but it just leaves the entire series completely unresolved. I'm hoping they fix the ending with (free) DLC in the future that adds the original ending dealing with dark matter and crap. That sounded like a much better ending to me, but the more important detail would be for them to add closure to everything we've done over the past three games.

[Koolgool]

*double posts by accident*

Modifié par Koolgool, 19 mars 2012 - 02:30 .

[Tsantilas]

im commander shep wrote...

I'm sorry if you truly belive SPACE MAGIC is the answer, then we all might as well forget mass effect and start watching Harry Potter.

Space magic is just a satyrical way of explaining how anything works in a science fiction setting without actually having some sort of scientific explanation for it.  Half the Mass Effect franchise is based on space magic.  What powers the crucible?  Space magic.  Mass effect fields?  Space magic.  Thanix cannon?  Space magic.  Kain heavy weapon?  Space magic.  The Crucible especially is the biggest space magic weapon in the franchise.  It was designed without knowing what it does, or how it works, only that it will "stop the reapers" if you connect it to the catalyst.  The Normandy crashed on a lush Garden Planet with blown up engines, and Joker (glassboy) walks out of it without so much as a scratch.  Space magic is just a plot device.

[im commander shep]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

No.. space magic my ass.... the writers made the citadel explode in red and green ending, they were conscious of not making it explpode in the blue ending, try antoher one.

The teleport thing is clearly a plothole or an assumption that your friends were not needed to charge into the shaft of light (At least that was my first impressions) I never questioned this until I read it online.

Please... countless cycles ago someone designed a huge superweapon without knowing how it works, what it does, or how it interracts with "the catalyst", and then in every cycle until our time, all the civilizations added something to it without knowing how it works, what it does, or how it interracts with "the catalyst", but you're trying to find a logical explanation for something as minor as "the citadel didn't explode in the blue ending"?  If space magic applies to the crucible, then I don't have an issue with it applying to the Control ending.  They're both equally retarded in my eyes.

Ever thoguht that the Crucible was another secret lie created by the reapers to make organic life waste time and give false hope? Nobody knows who designed it first.. so it can be.

You are trying to find the 1+1=2 in a sci-fi story... stop analyzing it so much... and try to let your creativity (If any) work it out..

The trouble is the mass effect galaxy has been created based on 1+1=2 logic all the way through everything from FTL travel, mass relays and omni-gel to omni-tools all has some sort logic behind it. That is why the end makes so little sense and so many fan are pissed off that why now is SPACE MAGIC the answer to everything.

[MadRabbit999]

im commander shep wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

No.. space magic my ass.... the writers made the citadel explode in red and green ending, they were conscious of not making it explpode in the blue ending, try antoher one.

The teleport thing is clearly a plothole or an assumption that your friends were not needed to charge into the shaft of light (At least that was my first impressions) I never questioned this until I read it online.

Please... countless cycles ago someone designed a huge superweapon without knowing how it works, what it does, or how it interracts with "the catalyst", and then in every cycle until our time, all the civilizations added something to it without knowing how it works, what it does, or how it interracts with "the catalyst", but you're trying to find a logical explanation for something as minor as "the citadel didn't explode in the blue ending"?  If space magic applies to the crucible, then I don't have an issue with it applying to the Control ending.  They're both equally retarded in my eyes.

Ever thoguht that the Crucible was another secret lie created by the reapers to make organic life waste time and give false hope? Nobody knows who designed it first.. so it can be.

You are trying to find the 1+1=2 in a sci-fi story... stop analyzing it so much... and try to let your creativity (If any) work it out..

The trouble is the mass effect galaxy has been created based on 1+1=2 logic all the way through everything from FTL travel, mass relays and omni-gel to omni-tools all has some sort logic behind it. That is why the end makes so little sense and so many fan are pissed off that why now is SPACE MAGIC the answer to everything.

Maybe it would work better if you guys stop referring to it as "Space magic" and called it "Artistic licence" instead.. so you would stop confusing the people that tries to debate your point.

[im commander shep]

Tsantilas wrote...

im commander shep wrote...

I'm sorry if you truly belive SPACE MAGIC is the answer, then we all might as well forget mass effect and start watching Harry Potter.

Space magic is just a satyrical way of explaining how anything works in a science fiction setting without actually having some sort of scientific explanation for it.  Half the Mass Effect franchise is based on space magic.  What powers the crucible?  Space magic.  Mass effect fields?  Space magic.  Thanix cannon?  Space magic.  Kain heavy weapon?  Space magic.  The Crucible especially is the biggest space magic weapon in the franchise.  It was designed without knowing what it does, or how it works, only that it will "stop the reapers" if you connect it to the catalyst.  The Normandy crashed on a lush Garden Planet with blown up engines, and Joker (glassboy) walks out of it without so much as a scratch.  Space magic is just a plot device.

So when you say space magic you mean element zero almost everything you just mentioned is based on logic, well logic in a universe that element zero exists in. Have you ever read some of the codex.

[Tsantilas]

im commander shep wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

im commander shep wrote...

I'm sorry if you truly belive SPACE MAGIC is the answer, then we all might as well forget mass effect and start watching Harry Potter.

Space magic is just a satyrical way of explaining how anything works in a science fiction setting without actually having some sort of scientific explanation for it.  Half the Mass Effect franchise is based on space magic.  What powers the crucible?  Space magic.  Mass effect fields?  Space magic.  Thanix cannon?  Space magic.  Kain heavy weapon?  Space magic.  The Crucible especially is the biggest space magic weapon in the franchise.  It was designed without knowing what it does, or how it works, only that it will "stop the reapers" if you connect it to the catalyst.  The Normandy crashed on a lush Garden Planet with blown up engines, and Joker (glassboy) walks out of it without so much as a scratch.  Space magic is just a plot device.

So when you say space magic you mean element zero almost everything you just mentioned is based on logic, well logic in a universe that element zero exists in. Have you ever read some of the codex.

Ughh... you're missing the point.  This is a fictional universe.  Element zero doesn't exist.  If I provided you with element zero right now would you be able to build a mass relay?  Use Biotics?  I don't think so... no one knows exactly how it all works.  They just accept that "this technical stuff involves element zero which makes mass effect fields and something something, yeah".  The Codex entries are made up fiction trying to give the player a feeling of immersion.  Ultimately though it just comes down to Space magic, and Element Zero is just a name they gave to some of the stuff powered by space magic so that it makes some kind of sense.