Aller au contenu

Photo

Indoctrination "Theory" proof. Open for Discussion, not arguing.


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
758 réponses à ce sujet

#201
Xerkysz

Xerkysz
  • Members
  • 191 messages

MassEffected555 wrote...


WAIT!!! HAHAHAH Ok so there is no oxygen on ships? Yet Shepard is breathing on the ship ALL the time with no mask. OK so then it is obviously OK that he could be breathing with no mask when talkiing to the Catalyst then.

Thats solved. 


Who said no oxygen on ships?

But that raises another point, standing on the outside of the Citadel, and breathing in space air with no mask on. /End Sarcasm.

People have said Mass Effect fields hold in oxygen, no one knows it though.

SO IT MUST BE SPACE MAGIC! :wizard:

#202
Jaze55

Jaze55
  • Members
  • 1 071 messages

MadRabbit999 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Xerkysz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

 

there a video. You guys like to post vids 


Good job you managed to get a movie, so how, after 2 years drifting in space, with no oxygen, is Shepard even able to be revived?

It's a game, things happen that don't or wouldn't happen IRL.

Like explosions in space, no oxygen means no fire...


Most ships carry large quantity of oxigen which burns up as they explode...


WAIT!!! HAHAHAH Ok so there is no oxygen on ships? Yet Shepard is breathing on the ship ALL the time with no mask. OK so then it is obviously OK that he could be breathing with no mask when talkiing to the Catalyst then.

Thats solved. 


dude... I am saying there is air on ship and that is what causes the fire during explosions.. learn to read before lolling at yourself...


lol you do realize I agree with you and am disagreeing with the person I quoted I hope. 

#203
FnordyCarlos

FnordyCarlos
  • Members
  • 10 messages
I don't like indoctrinating ending, I'd prefer another endings that show Shepard as a hero, but without losing him, or Geths.

#204
Fingertrip

Fingertrip
  • Members
  • 1 192 messages

Indoctrination also needs exposure to reaper artifacts, and it takes 1-2 weeks to work. 6 months between ME2 and ME3 is too long a lag time, the couple of minutes you are out for near the end of ME3 is too long a lag time.

Because Shepard hasn't been in contact with any Reaper Artifacts, or Reapers at all for the past 3 games. Let-alone The Arrival clearly indicates something happend to Shepard. But I suppose only the 1% actually understands The Arrival DLC content has some connection with the Indoctrination, and the conclussion of ME3.

Dayum shame.

I don't like indoctrinating
ending, I'd prefer another endings that show Shepard as a hero, but
without losing him, or Geths.

How exactly does the indoctrination "theory" exclude this, if anything- it opens up alot of more possibilies? 

Modifié par Fingertrip, 19 mars 2012 - 03:52 .


#205
Jaze55

Jaze55
  • Members
  • 1 071 messages

Xerkysz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...


WAIT!!! HAHAHAH Ok so there is no oxygen on ships? Yet Shepard is breathing on the ship ALL the time with no mask. OK so then it is obviously OK that he could be breathing with no mask when talkiing to the Catalyst then.

Thats solved. 


Who said no oxygen on ships?

But that raises another point, standing on the outside of the Citadel, and breathing in space air with no mask on. /End Sarcasm.

People have said Mass Effect fields hold in oxygen, no one knows it though.

SO IT MUST BE SPACE MAGIC! :wizard:


Xerkysz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

 

there a video. You guys like to post vids 


Good job you managed to get a movie, so how, after 2 years drifting in space, with no oxygen, is Shepard even able to be revived?

It's a game, things happen that don't or wouldn't happen IRL.

Like explosions in space, no oxygen means no fire...

 


I think you did clear as day. 

#206
TheBigM145

TheBigM145
  • Members
  • 62 messages
Alright, I've looked over the docs, videos, other explanations and, well, I dunno. There seems to be some logic behind the theory as stated. As I've said elsewhere I personally thought something was fishy about the ending. The thing is though that it seems that alot of the things presented could be argued more than one way. For example, the "lack" of defenses at the beam. Well, how do we know that they hadn't just been hit by a crapload of really pissed off Krogan and the Reapers are decimated themselves leaving only a handful of people left. Seems odd, but possible. I've also done a lot of thinking on the Mass Relay problem. To me there's a difference in what would happen if you hit something with an Asteroid vs. what would happen in the case of an overload as a result of channeling the amount of energy the network would have had to absorb.

So, I think what I'm trying to say is, well, I think the Indoc theory is one possible explanation but by far isn't a perfect one. I can't come up with a perfect one either. I think only the almighty "They" can and I hope to hell they give us one.

#207
Xerkysz

Xerkysz
  • Members
  • 191 messages

Fingertrip wrote...

Because Shepard hasn't been in contact with any Reaper Artifacts, or Reapers at all for the past 3 games. Let-alone The Arrival clearly indicates something happend to Shepard. But I suppose only the 1% actually understands The Arrival DLC content has some connection with the Indoctrination, and the conclussion of ME3.

Dayum shame.


Another for the cause.

Another thing people don't realise is we are trying to help them, but they refuse to see it because they.. :wizard::wizard::wizard:

#208
Jaze55

Jaze55
  • Members
  • 1 071 messages

Xerkysz wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

Because Shepard hasn't been in contact with any Reaper Artifacts, or Reapers at all for the past 3 games. Let-alone The Arrival clearly indicates something happend to Shepard. But I suppose only the 1% actually understands The Arrival DLC content has some connection with the Indoctrination, and the conclussion of ME3.

Dayum shame.


Another for the cause.

Another thing people don't realise is we are trying to help them, but they refuse to see it because they.. :wizard::wizard::wizard:


You are trying to help us by showing us the wisdom of your infinitely greater knowledge of the Mass Effect Universe then the rest of us. You are trying to enlighten us. 

Where so I send my first born to be sacraficed as thanks? 

#209
frylock23

frylock23
  • Members
  • 3 037 messages

As far as I see it, Indoc is the science side of things, and people who don't believe in it are the Christians.


Stopped reading right here.

As someone who thinks Indoc Theory makes more sense than anything the "official" folks have put out so far and who also happens to believe in quite a bit of science (married to a scientist) and happens to *gasp* be a Christian (as is he), you completely lost all credibility and respect right there.

#210
Alraiis

Alraiis
  • Members
  • 378 messages
I like Indoctrination Theory. It's a nice way to interpret a poorly-written ending. Making lemonade and all that.

But would bet money that Bioware never intended it. I have two primary reasons:

1. In Mass Effect, a single wrong choice never causes you to lose.
Indoctrination Theory relies on the belief that Synthesis and Control are, in essence, flashy Game Over screens. Shepard fails to fight the indoctrination and ends up a slave to the Reapers. This goes against one of the basic premises of choices in the Mass Effect series: all the options the player is presented are valid. Saving the Rachni doesn't cause them to ravage the galaxy down the line. Siding with the Geth doesn't backfire. No single choice made by the player dooms Shepard or the galaxy. You could argue that failing the Suicide Mission in ME2 is the result of choice, but that involves such a large collection of omissions and failures along the path of the game that you practically have to go out of your way to hit it.

Indoctrination Theory suggests that you can do everything flawlessly in ME3, but you still have a 2/3 chance to fail utterly at the end. There's only one right answer, the theory claims. Other choices are not simply unfavorable, they are flat-out wrong. Nothing else in the franchise has been that stark.

2. If Indoctrination was intended, the writers would have resolved it in-game.
Let's assume for the moment that Bioware has it all planned. Indoctrination Theory is 100% correct and all the clues were planted by Bioware deliberately. Why would they obfuscate this twist in the finished product? Take a look at what's going on right now. A significant number of players are dissatisfied. Some have sworn off Bioware products entirely. If Shepard's indoctrination played out in the game, then the story continued with Shepard getting up, seeing it through, and the races of the galaxy achieving victory, all of that would have been avoided. The writers would look clever and the players would be happy.

The Indoctrination Theory, as presented, would be terrible storytelling. It would be like Frodo almost dying on the way to Mount Doom, but then he wakes up, still miles away from his goal... and that's the end. No resolution. No ending. Only "Boy, that was a close call. But our hero is okay!" Shepard's mental state has nothing whatsoever to do with how the battle is going, and if the colorful explosions were all in Shepard's head, then the Reapers have not been stopped at all.

The in-game ending, if you take it at face value, is more of an ending than Indoctrination Theory. All Indoctrination Theory does is leave a door open that was closed so painfully by the endings as presented.

What's more likely? Given that all we have on either side are interpretations and guesses, what's the simpler solution? That Bioware didn't actually resolve the conflict, but only seeded clues, hidden for only a few players to find, about how the story would continue—clues that, once brought to light, would actually invalidate the choices of any player who chose Control or Synthesis and would also prove that their "ending" wasn't an end at all, going against all their claims? Or that, through short-sightedness, haste, or misjudgment, they simply wrote a sloppy and unsatisfying ending?

#211
NomadDC

NomadDC
  • Members
  • 130 messages
Here is a good idea: Make a thread with links to ALL Indoctrination theory related threads, so it will be somewhat organised, and as complete as possible.
Thinking of writing thread about Indoctrination theory history through all 3 games and some books/comics (as there are a lot of facts about it, that cannot be denied)

#212
MadRabbit999

MadRabbit999
  • Members
  • 1 067 messages

MassEffected555 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Xerkysz wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

 

there a video. You guys like to post vids 


Good job you managed to get a movie, so how, after 2 years drifting in space, with no oxygen, is Shepard even able to be revived?

It's a game, things happen that don't or wouldn't happen IRL.

Like explosions in space, no oxygen means no fire...


Most ships carry large quantity of oxigen which burns up as they explode...


WAIT!!! HAHAHAH Ok so there is no oxygen on ships? Yet Shepard is breathing on the ship ALL the time with no mask. OK so then it is obviously OK that he could be breathing with no mask when talkiing to the Catalyst then.

Thats solved. 


dude... I am saying there is air on ship and that is what causes the fire during explosions.. learn to read before lolling at yourself...


lol you do realize I agree with you and am disagreeing with the person I quoted I hope. 


Right....  this Bioware network quotes are dead confusing... It's like inception.. the quote of the quote.. of the quote.......

#213
im commander shep

im commander shep
  • Members
  • 551 messages
It looks like Bioware are changing there tune and maybe creating a new ending so at least we will get an answer one way or another, and for all the people who liked the ending just don't download the DLC.

Everyone is happy Image IPB

#214
Jaze55

Jaze55
  • Members
  • 1 071 messages

Xerkysz wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

Because Shepard hasn't been in contact with any Reaper Artifacts, or Reapers at all for the past 3 games. Let-alone The Arrival clearly indicates something happend to Shepard. But I suppose only the 1% actually understands The Arrival DLC content has some connection with the Indoctrination, and the conclussion of ME3.

Dayum shame.


Another for the cause.

Another thing people don't realise is we are trying to help them, but they refuse to see it because they.. :wizard::wizard::wizard:


You are completely ignoring everyone else that has been Indoctrinated through out the game. SUBTLE at first. They wouldnt have allowed Shepard to do anything to hinder them, SUBTLY at first. EVERYTHING Shep EVER does is to hinder the reapers. So again, you are elevating Shep above everyone else essentially making him super human.

#215
Grusome11

Grusome11
  • Members
  • 127 messages

MassEffected555 wrote...

MadRabbit999 wrote...

CHT87 wrote...



Best explanation out there?


It puts the indoctrination theory really on a plate for you... it is very well done.

If true, then Bioware did the most amazing job as no one has ever done before,  to screw around with people's minds, and we all fell for it.

If not... then it's still a nice theory, in the end it's up to you want yo uwant to believe :)



It's a terrible theory that bends all the rules to make it fit. I already said if that was the case Shepard has some superhuman power to resist it unlike all the other Mass Effect characters that have ever been indoctrinated. 

SPACE MAGIC 


Sheppard is better than everyone else in the game, by definition, he is the hero. He has saved the galaxy twice from reapers and now he is going to unite the races to save it one more time. Is that not a version of "superhuman". If there is someone who can do a better job, say "Bob", then we would be playing him not Sheppard.

Is is so hard to believe that he may be able to resist indoctrination better than others? I don't know if he is or not but it is definately possible within the fiction of this universe.

#216
Safoulan

Safoulan
  • Members
  • 51 messages

MassEffected555 wrote...

WAIT!!! HAHAHAH Ok so there is no oxygen on ships? Yet Shepard is breathing on the ship ALL the time with no mask. OK so then it is obviously OK that he could be breathing with no mask when talkiing to the Catalyst then.

Thats solved. 



Indoctrination "Theory" proof. Open for Discussion, not arguing



Caution: Please do not feed the trolls. It only encourages them.

Modifié par Safoulan, 19 mars 2012 - 04:03 .


#217
MadRabbit999

MadRabbit999
  • Members
  • 1 067 messages

Alraiis wrote...

I like Indoctrination Theory. It's a nice way to interpret a poorly-written ending. Making lemonade and all that.

But would bet money that Bioware never intended it. I have two primary reasons:

1. In Mass Effect, a single wrong choice never causes you to lose.
Indoctrination Theory relies on the belief that Synthesis and Control are, in essence, flashy Game Over screens. Shepard fails to fight the indoctrination and ends up a slave to the Reapers. This goes against one of the basic premises of choices in the Mass Effect series: all the options the player is presented are valid. Saving the Rachni doesn't cause them to ravage the galaxy down the line. Siding with the Geth doesn't backfire. No single choice made by the player dooms Shepard or the galaxy. You could argue that failing the Suicide Mission in ME2 is the result of choice, but that involves such a large collection of omissions and failures along the path of the game that you practically have to go out of your way to hit it.

Indoctrination Theory suggests that you can do everything flawlessly in ME3, but you still have a 2/3 chance to fail utterly at the end. There's only one right answer, the theory claims. Other choices are not simply unfavorable, they are flat-out wrong. Nothing else in the franchise has been that stark.

2. If Indoctrination was intended, the writers would have resolved it in-game.
Let's assume for the moment that Bioware has it all planned. Indoctrination Theory is 100% correct and all the clues were planted by Bioware deliberately. Why would they obfuscate this twist in the finished product? Take a look at what's going on right now. A significant number of players are dissatisfied. Some have sworn off Bioware products entirely. If Shepard's indoctrination played out in the game, then the story continued with Shepard getting up, seeing it through, and the races of the galaxy achieving victory, all of that would have been avoided. The writers would look clever and the players would be happy.

The Indoctrination Theory, as presented, would be terrible storytelling. It would be like Frodo almost dying on the way to Mount Doom, but then he wakes up, still miles away from his goal... and that's the end. No resolution. No ending. Only "Boy, that was a close call. But our hero is okay!" Shepard's mental state has nothing whatsoever to do with how the battle is going, and if the colorful explosions were all in Shepard's head, then the Reapers have not been stopped at all.

The in-game ending, if you take it at face value, is more of an ending than Indoctrination Theory. All Indoctrination Theory does is leave a door open that was closed so painfully by the endings as presented.

What's more likely? Given that all we have on either side are interpretations and guesses, what's the simpler solution? That Bioware didn't actually resolve the conflict, but only seeded clues, hidden for only a few players to find, about how the story would continue—clues that, once brought to light, would actually invalidate the choices of any player who chose Control or Synthesis and would also prove that their "ending" wasn't an end at all, going against all their claims? Or that, through short-sightedness, haste, or misjudgment, they simply wrote a sloppy and unsatisfying ending?


Your first point has 1 flaw: You actually can die by a bad choice.... I do not remember many old examples.. but the most recent being the illusive man.. if you pick the wrong answer he shoots you in the face and you fail...

#218
BigBubbaBacon

BigBubbaBacon
  • Members
  • 104 messages

Xerkysz wrote...

As far as I see it, Indoc is the science side of things, and people who don't believe in it are the Christians.


Stopped reading here. It isn't wise to start out with an insult to what is likely a large portion of the people reading this thread.

#219
Rusty0918

Rusty0918
  • Members
  • 139 messages

MassEffected555 wrote...

Xerkysz wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

Because Shepard hasn't been in contact with any Reaper Artifacts, or Reapers at all for the past 3 games. Let-alone The Arrival clearly indicates something happend to Shepard. But I suppose only the 1% actually understands The Arrival DLC content has some connection with the Indoctrination, and the conclussion of ME3.

Dayum shame.


Another for the cause.

Another thing people don't realise is we are trying to help them, but they refuse to see it because they.. :wizard::wizard::wizard:


You are completely ignoring everyone else that has been Indoctrinated through out the game. SUBTLE at first. They wouldnt have allowed Shepard to do anything to hinder them, SUBTLY at first. EVERYTHING Shep EVER does is to hinder the reapers. So again, you are elevating Shep above everyone else essentially making him super human.


Shepard has a very strong will. Heck he could handle accessing the Prothean Beacon on Eden Prime in ME1, which in most cases would be fatal.

#220
Jaze55

Jaze55
  • Members
  • 1 071 messages

Safoulan wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

WAIT!!! HAHAHAH Ok so there is no oxygen on ships? Yet Shepard is breathing on the ship ALL the time with no mask. OK so then it is obviously OK that he could be breathing with no mask when talkiing to the Catalyst then.

Thats solved. 



Indoctrination "Theory" proof. Open for Discussion, not arguing



Caution: Please do not feed the trolls. It only encourages them.


Oh so anyone that argues with logic against your precious theory is a troll. OK then if you say so. 

#221
Kanon777

Kanon777
  • Members
  • 1 625 messages
Indoc theory works, its good but the developers responses CLEARLY shows that they dont know what do to.

If indoc was real why didnt they announce the plans for the ending dlc yet? What about the recent leak where someone "mispoke" that there was no plans for endings.

INDOC MAKES SENSE BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO ADD A SCENE WHERE WE WOULD BE CONTROLED BY A REAPER, BUT THAT IDEA WAS REMOVED!!!!

#222
Grusome11

Grusome11
  • Members
  • 127 messages

MassEffected555 wrote...

Xerkysz wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

Because Shepard hasn't been in contact with any Reaper Artifacts, or Reapers at all for the past 3 games. Let-alone The Arrival clearly indicates something happend to Shepard. But I suppose only the 1% actually understands The Arrival DLC content has some connection with the Indoctrination, and the conclussion of ME3.

Dayum shame.


Another for the cause.

Another thing people don't realise is we are trying to help them, but they refuse to see it because they.. :wizard::wizard::wizard:


You are completely ignoring everyone else that has been Indoctrinated through out the game. SUBTLE at first. They wouldnt have allowed Shepard to do anything to hinder them, SUBTLY at first. EVERYTHING Shep EVER does is to hinder the reapers. So again, you are elevating Shep above everyone else essentially making him super human.


Others in this thread have pointed to things which could be considered as subtle attempts at indoctrination. The two dream sequences, the time spent close to the reaper during The Arrival DLC.

#223
Alraiis

Alraiis
  • Members
  • 378 messages

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Your first point has 1 flaw: You actually can die by a bad choice.... I do not remember many old examples.. but the most recent being the illusive man.. if you pick the wrong answer he shoots you in the face and you fail...


You have to miss the interrupt, as I recall. The dialogue doesn't automatically kill you; it's more like a QTE. It's similar to dying because you failed to shoot Marauder Shields.

#224
Hernok

Hernok
  • Members
  • 17 messages
Sheppard can't be adoctrinated. He is stronger than that...

#225
Safoulan

Safoulan
  • Members
  • 51 messages

MassEffected555 wrote...

Safoulan wrote...

MassEffected555 wrote...

WAIT!!! HAHAHAH Ok so there is no oxygen on ships? Yet Shepard is breathing on the ship ALL the time with no mask. OK so then it is obviously OK that he could be breathing with no mask when talkiing to the Catalyst then.

Thats solved. 



Indoctrination "Theory" proof. Open for Discussion, not arguing



Caution: Please do not feed the trolls. It only encourages them.


Oh so anyone that argues with logic against your precious theory is a troll. OK then if you say so. 


You're a troll because of the bolded statements above. (there are others I don't feel like quoting in this same thread)
You type expressions people typically say.
It's not enough that you feel strongly.
You feel the need to exaggerate with use of Caps & poor grammar.
That's what's 'troll-ish', not your views.