1309 réponses à ce sujet

[majinbuu1307]

Most of the people who "like" the endings, are the critics and reviewers. No one listens to them. I hear a critic say a movie is bad, I go because I wanted to see it. Some critic said chronicle was bad, mhm. Sure.

[MrDizazta]

I will never like the ending to Mass Effect 3. When a game's ending has this many plot hole and uses a literal Deus ex machina I will never like it.

[majinbuu1307]

Most of the people who "like" the endings, are the critics and reviewers. No one listens to them. I hear a critic say a movie is bad, I go because I wanted to see it. Some critic said chronicle was bad, mhm. Sure.

[saeval912]

while it is wording rather aggressively, i do understand where the OP is coming from. I dont get how the current ending gives anyone closure. It isn't even about "what is promised" to me... its just so plothole ridden and offers up no information whatsoever. I mean, if Edi pops out of the normandy when I choose to destroy all synthetic life... and shepard breathes through the rubble... who's to say the reapers aren't still alive? what exactly did I do?

[GhostlyMaiden]

etnah wrote...

the simple fact that the change in endings is base on colour alone should make everyone angry.

did you see that vid on youtube that shows nearly all the endings play together? THAT should make everyone really angry...... even if you like your ending....

the fact that you MUST use MP to have the unique real change (hum...) makes me really angry.

the fact that after that ending, I have the feeling to have play ME1, ME2 and ME3 for nothing make me over-angry.

and when I read people that love "that" ending it make me angry... and jealous..... I wish I was "blind" (it works for a few second of happiness) and did not see the hole and incoherence, I wish I have lost my game and couldn't discover that there is no other ending.....

No, that's just lazy (or rushed) and cheaper. They could have zoomed in on characters as they're being changed in Synthesis. Maybe even flash a scene on the microscopic level showing the dna being warped. After the mass relays were destroyed, they could have shown scenes of Palaven and Thessia not being destroyed with turians, krogan and asari clearly still alive as the reapers leave or are vaporized. Then people can stop saying you destroyed the entire universe. They could have shown scenes of aliens of various species working together to clean up Earth so the ideas of everything devolving into anarchy and people starving to death could be dispelled. The dextros are still kind of screwed, but I suppose they could try to outfit as many ships as possible to at least make it to Turian space. Maybe they could even set up sleeper pods and if the geth are stil alive, they can upload them into ships to fly them home. Don't have much knowledge on how space-time works though, so I have no idea if that's plausible. Really, it's not the end all be all everyone says it has to be.

Modifié par GhostlyMaiden, 19 mars 2012 - 04:49 .

[RogueFreer]

I'll admit, I personally enjoyed the game right through, the endings felt off and a bit hollow but I enjoyed it because, well, it was Mass Effect! It certainly got to me a bit.

However since I've actually spent time thinking about it, it does seem far too hollow and I can't just ignore the glaring plot holes - this all came about as I tried for a second ending and found it to be effectively the same.

Summary,
While caught up in the moment it was enjoyable, however shortly after that there just didn't seem to be enough consequence.

[Ryokun1989]

RogueBot wrote...

Ryokun1989 wrote...

RogueBot wrote...

Personally, I believe Bioware intentionally left hints that Shepard was indoctrinated. The reason I don't like that is because I think it was done to breed speculation, as opposed to it actually being their intention that Shepard was indoctrinated.

So, while the indoc theory's a valid one, Bioware's shift from a straightforward space opera about love, companionship, and beating the odds to an intentionally vague ending with with little resolution and more questions than answers is poorly done. It's just incredibly inconsistent storytelling.

If Bioware plans to continue Shepard's story and it is shown that he is, in fact, indoctrinated, I would look upon ME3's ending much more favorably. But I don't think that's their intention. They just wanted to create speculation.

I've never seen Mass Effect as an entirely straightforward Space Opera.. we were messing with some pretty heavy decisions for that. Luke Skywalker never had to decide whether to cure the genophage!

I personally believe the 'hints' that a lot of people think points to indoctrination actually point to a metaphysical reality (no, that's not the same as a dream). 
You can check out my signature link for some ideas on that if you like.

Interesting notion. However, even "heavy" issues such as the genophage were resolved with very few loose ends (if any) in ME3, which is why I still consider it "straightforward". There isn't any *****-footing about the issue. Either you cure it or you don't.

I find the series as a whole to be much in the same vein, except for the ending. Like I said, it's intentionally vague, which is inconsistent with most of Mass Effect's storytelling.

Does that mean it's bad? No, it's a matter of opinion. But the inconsistency is something I believe better writers would have avoided. They should have brought that feeling we got from the ending into the rest of the trilogy, or abandoned it altogether. Since most of the trilogy was already complete, I think the smart choice would have been to remain consistent.

I agree it could have been more consistent and that would have prevented a lot of backlash.
At the end of the day I'm mostly happy because a series I love ended in a way that I also love. It feels a bit like how Battlestar Galactica ended, except I felt this was.. rather better? xD
Even then they could probably improve some things about the ending.

At the end of the day I think it's quite well-written though. I wouldn't like the philosophical undercurrent that really *is* there throughout all games to be discarded in favor of some exposition about what happened to everyone's favourite crewmember. There was plenty time to say goodbye on the Normandy and in the command center on Earth.

And what annoys me most is the people who don't get any further than 'plot-holes! lazy writing!', keep repeating that, then proceed to argue that everyone who likes the ending must be an idiot, 'casual' or BioWare plant.

[HiddenKING]

I love the Mass Effect Universe, and I personally do believe that the endin of ME3 leaves tons of room for potential in the Universe. That bein said, I won't deny the poor execution of the endin. I'm willin to look past plotholes, the same way I looked past the plotholes of ME1 and ME2. The endin does do what it was meant to do, which is close Shepard and the Normandy crew's story. It's what I was expectin from ME3. Personally I think that we should not have been given an end choice. IMO, stories have a beginnin and an end, everythin else is subject to change, but somethings cannot.

[majormajormmajor]

Torrible wrote...

Looks like you are incapable of debating without resorting to insults. Reported

Looks like you are incapable of debating at all. Hence running to hide behind the skirts of others

[saracen16]

Tony208 wrote...

Either one of these

1. They don't care.
2. It's a good ending in their imagination. They geniunely liked it.
3. They didn't play for the story.
4. They can't see whats wrong about it.
5. Troll.

I love generalizations because I love quashing them with my thumb.

1. I've been a fan of Mass Effect, its lore, its games, its comics, and its novels since day 1: a more intellectual and non-pea-brained alternative to Halo.
2. It's a good ending in my OPINION. In fact, I LOVE the ending and how it reflects on the whole game. Use the search button or click on my profile, because I'm done rewriting and justifying myself to a crowd that barely listens.
3. I played it for the story, the codex, and the characters. I played it for everything.
4. "What's wrong about it" is an opinion because you view the game from different lens and have a memory that is shorter than 15 minutes.  The whole game provided closure to most if not all of the plots and subplots started in ME's 1 and 2 as well as the fates of the characters that we've come to know and love (or hate. but hey, they're just people).
5. If you've been following most of the threads, those who like the endings have not made one single troll post. Those who didn't like the endings have unlocked the gates of troll hell and opened it towards BSN.

U mad, bro?

[EllOneillE]

kunzite wrote...

I wouldnt call people stupid, just because they liked the endings. People have differing opinions, and their opinion is just as valid as yours, or as mine, or as someone elses. No wonder people think we're whining.

This. But to be fair both sides are guilty of ad hominem attacks.

We all played the game differently, of course. Statistics alone mean that some people will think the ending matches their game, so they don't even care for the plot holes.
But polls alone show they are the minority of players. What was the numbers of that poll again, 2 or 3 of every 100 players that responded? Yeah. Numbers paint a much clearer picture in this sea of mostly negative opinions.

[Caz Neerg]

Lightice_av wrote...

xeNNN wrote...

look at it this way.

most games have about a 25% hardcore fan base (most not all) then the other 75 percent go as follows.

50% - buy it once be like omg that was so much fun, over play it for like a week then never play it again.
25% - buy it play it like it then take it back.

So, how are you explaining the fact that I'm a part of the hardcore fanbase, yet I still didn't hate the endings? I am rather annoyed that I'm called "casual" just because I don't spout hate-filled vitriol at Bioware, or worse, that I'm a paid plant -- whatever that's supposed to accomplish.

Has anybody actually said a hardcore fan can't like the ending? That would be an unfair statement. What would be fair to say is that every piece of information we have points to the conclusion that *most* hardcore fans do not like the ending. It's also reasonable to assume that casuals are less likely to care either way.

piemanz wrote...
I think a large portion of the fanbase didn't like it for one reason or another, that doesn't necessarily make the ending bad. If you were to poll eveyone who didn't like the ending for instance you'd probably find that they were deeply divided in what they actually wanted.

Personally from other polls i've seen, the biggest issue is there's no 'happy' ending, which for me goes aginst the whole theme of the game.

No offense, but if you honestly think lack of a happy ending is the biggest issue, you haven't been paying very close attention. As for whether the ending is bad, quite a few people who claim to be professional writers, holders of literature related degrees, or professors of the same, have chimed in all over this forum and in other places. I have yet to see a single one of those people who are either educated in or work in the writing of fiction say that this ending is not objectively bad.

Modifié par Caz Neerg, 19 mars 2012 - 04:44 .

[Lightice_av]

charon45 wrote...

The dialogue makes no sense if that is the case.  If space travel were routine, they wouldn't talk about it as if it were a mysterious thing.  Speculation is one thing, but this is an interpretation that goes contrary to the evidence presented in the ending. 

If anyone is contradicting the ending, it's you. The child isn't talking about going to the stars as vague, childish wish, but as an actual thing that will happen. They have spacetravel in that epilogue, they are simply making a philosophical point about the endless possibilities that wait in the vast universe.

Has anybody actually said a hardcore fan can't like the ending?
That would be an unfair statement. What would be fair to say is that
every piece of information we have points to the conclusion that *most*
hardcore fans do not like the ending. It's also reasonable to assume
that casuals are less likely to care either way.

Yes. I've been told repeatedly that no true fan can like the ending, and anyone who does either doesn't get the series, is just an ignorant casual, or is actually a Bioware plant.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 19 mars 2012 - 04:45 .

[Straw_foot]

I won't come attack people for liking the ending (I HATED It) but I don't see why it would turn us against each other. Mass Effect has always been about choice, and having the gambit of endings from fuzzy save the world get the girl to horrible fiasco where everyone, including you, dies. That's one of the reasons I, and I hope you, loved the series. No amount of attacking one another will get us our desired result.

Hold The Line.

[Tony208]

saracen16 wrote...

Tony208 wrote...

Either one of these

1. They don't care.
2. It's a good ending in their imagination. They geniunely liked it.
3. They didn't play for the story.
4. They can't see whats wrong about it.
5. Troll.

I love generalizations because I love quashing them with my thumb.

1. I've been a fan of Mass Effect, its lore, its games, its comics, and its novels since day 1: a more intellectual and non-pea-brained alternative to Halo.
2. It's a good ending in my OPINION. In fact, I LOVE the ending and how it reflects on the whole game. Use the search button or click on my profile, because I'm done rewriting and justifying myself to a crowd that barely listens.
3. I played it for the story, the codex, and the characters. I played it for everything.
4. "What's wrong about it" is an opinion because you view the game from different lens and have a memory that is shorter than 15 minutes.  The whole game provided closure to most if not all of the plots and subplots started in ME's 1 and 2 as well as the fates of the characters that we've come to know and love (or hate. but hey, they're just people).
5. If you've been following most of the threads, those who like the endings have not made one single troll post. Those who didn't like the endings have unlocked the gates of troll hell and opened it towards BSN.

U mad, bro?

What a fail, I said either one of these, not ALL of these.

[irishScott3]

Uhhh, I wouldn't say a lot...

IGN poll: https://www.facebook...50639359051633/

[majormajormmajor]

I find it hilarious even on IGN (one of those outlets that have come out strongest in support of the endings) the weight of opinion is still against the endings

U mad?

Modifié par majormajormmajor, 19 mars 2012 - 04:49 .

[Ryokun1989]

Caz Neerg wrote...
No offense, but if you honestly think lack of a happy ending is the biggest issue, you haven't been paying very close attention. As for whether the ending is bad, quite a few people who claim to be professional writers, holders of literature related degrees, or professors of the same, have chimed in all over this forum and in other places. I have yet to see a single one of those people who are either educated in or work in the writing of fiction say that this ending is not objectively bad.

I'm pretty sure I've seen those people on both sides of the fence, so let's not go around pulling qualifications at eachother shall we?

[smegmalongbeach]

saeval912 wrote...

while it is wording rather aggressively, i do understand where the OP is coming from. I dont get how the current ending gives anyone closure. It isn't even about "what is promised" to me... its just so plothole ridden and offers up no information whatsoever. I mean, if Edi pops out of the normandy when I choose to destroy all synthetic life... and shepard breathes through the rubble... who's to say the reapers aren't still alive? what exactly did I do?

it is a good take on the technological singularity and is actually pretty deep in the choices they give you and why, especially with showing andersons and TIM choices along with a third that I figured was the option for people who liked edi and the geth and wanted a choice to live along side synthetics which is not really a option in the singularity theory.

i would have done it diffrently but the ending is really good, the argument that it has nothing to do with you me1/2 choices is valid but all thouse stories get wrapped up during the game all the plot holes and unanswered questions seem to come from the ending it self not sheppards journy up to the end.

technological singularity is a intresting discussion and a solution to it is hard to comprhend and I think casey did a good job placing that burden on the player. i think that also is why the ending feels so empty. dealing with the technological singularity we as organics dont really win in any scenario

[Caz Neerg]

Ryokun1989 wrote...

Caz Neerg wrote...
No offense, but if you honestly think lack of a happy ending is the biggest issue, you haven't been paying very close attention. As for whether the ending is bad, quite a few people who claim to be professional writers, holders of literature related degrees, or professors of the same, have chimed in all over this forum and in other places. I have yet to see a single one of those people who are either educated in or work in the writing of fiction say that this ending is not objectively bad.

I'm pretty sure I've seen those people on both sides of the fence, so let's not go around pulling qualifications at eachother shall we?

Like I said, I haven't seen any of the supposed "professionals" supporting the ending.  I am not saying they don't exist, only that I haven't seen their posts.  I would be happy to read them if you have actual links, it would be interesting to see their points.

Modifié par Caz Neerg, 19 mars 2012 - 04:53 .

[MonkeyLungs]

Here's a small pieceof advice you guys would do well to at least consider:

Do NOT respond to threads where people are talking about how much they like the ending if you disagree with their premise. Ignore them and they will go away. Do you really want to draw attention away from your point and shine light on theirs? I can assure you, that is what they are attempting to do to your arguments. Most of them probabaly are not genuine and plenty of them are PR people. Ignore them.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

the majority of people who like the ending on these boards work for bioware

[Genera1Nemesis]

smegmalongbeach wrote...

saeval912 wrote...

while it is wording rather aggressively, i do understand where the OP is coming from. I dont get how the current ending gives anyone closure. It isn't even about "what is promised" to me... its just so plothole ridden and offers up no information whatsoever. I mean, if Edi pops out of the normandy when I choose to destroy all synthetic life... and shepard breathes through the rubble... who's to say the reapers aren't still alive? what exactly did I do?

it is a good take on the technological singularity and is actually pretty deep in the choices they give you and why, especially with showing andersons and TIM choices along with a third that I figured was the option for people who liked edi and the geth and wanted a choice to live along side synthetics which is not really a option in the singularity theory.

i would have done it diffrently but the ending is really good, the argument that it has nothing to do with you me1/2 choices is valid but all thouse stories get wrapped up during the game all the plot holes and unanswered questions seem to come from the ending it self not sheppards journy up to the end.

technological singularity is a intresting discussion and a solution to it is hard to comprhend and I think casey did a good job placing that burden on the player. i think that also is why the ending feels so empty. dealing with the technological singularity we as organics dont really win in any scenario

Exactly. Just the notion of the singularity is impossible to comprehend it's ramifications on life as we know it. this is why I believe the term 'destroy' all organic life is loose because it can be interpreted as something 'beyond our capacity to understand' the ramifications of what happens after singularity happens.


"Technological singularity refers to the hypothetical future
emergence of greater-than-human intelligence through technological
means, very probably resulting in explosive superintelligence.[1]
Since the capabilities of such intelligence would be difficult for an
unaided human mind to comprehend, the occurrence of a technological
singularity is seen as an intellectual event horizon,
beyond which events can not be predicted or understood. Proponents of
the singularity typically state that an "intelligence explosion"[2][3] is a key factor of the Singularity where superintelligences design successive generations of increasingly powerful minds.
This hypothesized process of intelligent self-modification might
occur very quickly, and might not stop until the agent's cognitive
abilities greatly surpass that of any human. The term "intelligence
explosion" is therefore sometimes used to refer to this scenario.["

Sounds a lot like EDi's evolution throughout the game to me; doesn't mean she's 'bad' to put it simply. It's just 'unpredictable" as it were.

http://en.wikipedia....cal_singularity

Modifié par Genera1Nemesis, 19 mars 2012 - 04:57 .

[Caz Neerg]

DinoSteve wrote...

the majority of people who like the ending on these boards work for bioware

Doubtful.  They may only be two percent, but out of 60,000, that still means there are almost 1300 people who have come to this site and expressed support in the poll for the endings.  It's not unreasonable to assume a few dozen of those might feel strongly enough to post a lot.

[msp]

Gunslinger01101 wrote...
I suggest you people never read any of the great sci-fi space operas. Foundation, Dune, Dark Tower, Rama, all of these leave you "wondering" and with a good amount of "speculation" (and no, no books by brian herbert count towards dune). So if gaming ever truly wants to ascend the story telling ladder to "art" along WITH entertainment, this is what happens. I thought the end was both thoughtful AND entertaining. I think gamers weren't ready for it. For all the clamoring we do to be taken seriously, apparently most of us aren't ready for our beloved medium to ascend any higher than entertainment.

This is what happens when somebody tries to force their story up that "artsy" ladder in the last 10 minutes. It's as if the writers were so determined to reach that art status, they swapped to a completely different genre in the last 10 minutes of 100+ hour series. To get there, they completely stripped control from me as a player, changed everything that defined my hero as a person, rendered moot all previous accomplishments and choices... and why? So they can end the series with a cheap biblical allegory. It this is art, I want no more of it.

Yes, I understand that the ending was supposed to uplifting - it's a message of hope and of a new life beginning. I'm sure there are people out there for whom it absolutely worked. It's great, I'm happy for them. For me, it simply didn't, on either level. Emotionally, it just wasn't there. Analytically, all I could think of were millions of sentient beings dying in mass relay explosions and the trapped alien fleet fighting over scraps of food in the Sol system. Let's just say that message of hope failed to come through. 

Edit: alien fleet, not feet.. grrr.. 

Modifié par msp, 19 mars 2012 - 05:18 .