1309 réponses à ce sujet

[Genera1Nemesis]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

I find it strange that a lot of people who like the endings are very new to the forums and only have me3 attached to their account.

I joined a long time ago but never felt the desire to discuss things and speculate on things until I finished ME3. Interpretation is the spice of life, IMO; so I came on here to discuss the issues that arose that aren't just with what I liked, but also what I didn't like.

Forums are supposed to be a sharing of opinions; a place for friendly debate and a way to see what others think about the things they care about. I am seeing a lot of people simply dismiss those who find the endings good or likable as simply 'trolls' or 'idiots'. In this it does not matter how long they've been a member; they share the same rights as anyone on these forums.

[Lukanp]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

I find it strange that a lot of people who like the endings are very new to the forums and only have me3 attached to their account.

There has been a topic concerning this matter, but it was obviously locked a few minutes ago.

[DrGuns]

Also all of the people who like the ending seem to admit that the thing with the Normandy escaping with your squadmates on board was "the one thing" that didn't really make sense.

So this means that they didn't actually "love" the ending and/or don't understand that Mass Effect was for a good part pretty much entirely about the epic quest you and your squad undertook.

Or they are indeed hired by BioWare or EA and the strategy they all agreed on as being absolutely brilliant, was to say they really loved the ending, but to make themselves seem not completely ridiculous and missing the point, do concede "one small point" that "was probably somewhat poorly done".

What a believable point you all make simultaneously.

Seriously, BioWare should have just hired the Indoc. Theory people.

[Shiran]

I've just finished the game this weekend, and I like the endings. Yes, I've played the previous games as well. No, there are no glaring lore conflicts. Ending is fine, it is preposterous to somehow expect some sort of Skittles and Sunshine ending for fairly dark story, where it is pretty apparent from the beginning to anyone including Shepard himself that he won't make it. See his remarks to Kolyat after Thane's death etc.

[Pelle6666]

I don't know... I just don't know.

[saracen16]

DrGuns wrote...

Also all of the people who like the ending seem to admit that the thing with the Normandy escaping with your squadmates on board was "the one thing" that didn't really make sense.

Incorrect. I don't find that troubling at all: we don't know where Joker was nor do we know where the squad is after we got hit by the beam of Harbinger. Hell, we don't know how long Shepard was out after Harbinger knocked him out cold. But when you do wake up, all forces, namely Hammer and Sword, are in retreat.

[jbauck]

I see the phrase "suspension of disbelief" crop up occasionally - but the whole phrase is really "willing suspension of disbelief". The "willing" part is important, because it represents the audience's willingness to believe ridiculous things in order to experience a great story.

Some people's suspension of disbelief is more willing than others - which is to say, some people are more inclined to turn off their critical-thinking-wtf? filter and just accept what they're told in order to enjoy a story. That's not a criticism or a dig, I'm just pointing out that different people have a different threshhold at which their suspension of disbelief is no longer willing. These people aren't stupid, they just have a better ability to "go with it" for the sake of a story.

For me, my willingness to suspend disbelief broke when, at the last minute, a new character was introduced, the new character in turn introduced numerous plot holes, and then Shepard was presented with 3 Doom Pits of Salvation (sometimes a literal pit, but basically, something the hero or hero's friends can jump into that will kill the person who jumps in, but magically saves everyone else/solves the stories conflict) as the only possible resolutions to the reaper war.

I just couldn't accept the story anymore at that point, but other people could *shrug* Willing suspension of disbelief. It's that simple for why some people liked the ending.

Modifié par jbauck, 19 mars 2012 - 05:16 .

[JMA22TB]

Well I'm not going to judge them.

If they enjoyed an ending that breaks away from the character of the story, maybe there's a group of people who silently never really cared for having to decide their destiny.

Or if they thought the ending was a fitting end to Shepard, more power to them.

The truth of the matter, however, is that there are far more people who want the ending changed than people who like it. Anyone who looks at twitter, facebook, the BSN, and objective reviews of the story can see that.

[DrGuns]

Shiran wrote...

I've just finished the game this weekend, and I like the endings. Yes, I've played the previous games as well. No, there are no glaring lore conflicts. Ending is fine, it is preposterous to somehow expect some sort of Skittles and Sunshine ending for fairly dark story, where it is pretty apparent from the beginning to anyone including Shepard himself that he won't make it. See his remarks to Kolyat after Thane's death etc.

It's not about the bleak and/or happy ending. It's about the fact that I really don't know whether that ending was bleak or hapyy, because I didn't make a shred of sense.

See also basically every other thread around here.

[jbauck]

oops - meant to edit, quoted instead

Modifié par jbauck, 19 mars 2012 - 05:15 .

[Liber320]

Different opinions

THe reason we're hearing from them more is that

1) the Hold the Liners are calming down a bit

2) more people are finishing the game, meaning there are more people in both camps

3) because the anti-ending folk (myself included), have gotten most of what they want to say out, there is more room for the pro-ending people to express themselves.

All that being said, there is a good amount of evidence that most people are still against the endings, so I wouldn't worry too much. Let everyone have their say and keep it clean

[charon45]

Lightice_av wrote...


Normandy has no means of kick-starting a civilization. Too few people, however you look at it. Normandy does have a quantum entaglement communicator that works regarless of whether Mass Relays are there or not.

You are assuming that it still works, which is not a given because the ship crashed, and that it is enough to help find them after crashing on a planet in uncharted space.

People in the ending speak of spacetravel as a routine affair, and wonder at the endless possibilities of the cosmos.

They don't.  I'm not sure how else to say this.  NOTHING in what they say indicates that space travel is routine. 

It makes far more sense to assume that the crew was saved and the planet colonized, unless you are really cynical and assume that everybody  died and the planet was colonized much later by unrelated people.

Or you take it as another plot hole in the ending. 

[saracen16]

jbauck wrote...
Some people's suspension of disbelief is more willing than others - which is to say, some people are more inclined to turn off their critical-thinking-wtf? filter and just accept what they're told in order to enjoy a story.

The same can be said for both sides. I've seen people on the "retake" movement not put a single thought of their own into the ending and instead resort to copy-pasting posts from teh intarwebz b/c teh intarwebz is right.

Don't jump to conclusions.

[Tony208]

saracen16 wrote...

Tony208 wrote...

No, you're no. 2. You used your imagination to fill in the gaps of the ending and came out happy so you liked it.

Take the time to read my posts (use that Search function) then come back and tell me that I "imagined" my ending.

You should take the time to carefully read before you respond to someone else's post.

You don't know where Joker is, he could've been anywhere, so in your imagination the fact that he got away wasn't that far fetched.

[barrel_LOL]

I accept the ending because throughout the game i had been using my own imagination to adjust certain dialogue -- certain scenarios to best suit my personal interpretation of my playthrough

so when i came to the ending, i was able to use my imagination to fill in and compensate any narrative gaps that i personally might have.

cos end of the day, that is what you do when you immerse yourself with an RPG, you use your imagination.

hell, it's a lot more easier and a lot more satisfying than raging out on the forums demanding to control things you have no control over, there are more important things in life. LOL NOT A REAL FAN BECAUSE HE THINKS THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE... Ahem. excuse me, i don't know where that came from.

second playthrough, here i come.

[spacehamsterZH]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

I find it strange that a lot of people who like the endings are very new to the forums and only have me3 attached to their account.

You're being sarcastic, but seriously, the more I think about this, the more I find that the ending is really a betrayal of ME3 itself more than anything else. While it certainly stinks that none of the big choices from the first two games have any impact what-so-frickin-ever on the final outcome, at least they do actually impact how everything leading up to it plays out and the game goes to all kinds of lengths to bring closure to many of these plotlines. ME3 itself, especially to new players who don't know or care what a "Rachni" is or who any of these characters that want to talk to Shepard are, is about the "galactic readiness" mechanic - everything you do feeds into this, and its explained in all kinds of minutiae if you care to read it. And what does galactic readiness do? NOTHING. At least whether I killed the Rachni or let Ashley shoot Wrex has a tangible effect, even if it ends up contributing zilch to whatever the hell that BS with Casper the Friendly Plot Device was. I'd have to think if I only knew ME3, I'd be even more mad.

Modifié par spacehamsterZH, 19 mars 2012 - 05:18 .

[Caz Neerg]

Ryokun1989 wrote...
It's pointless... it's hardly possible to prove for one; but even so. I'm a writer but I'm *really* not going to call on that as a reason for why you should listen to my reasons for why I think the plot works. It doesn't make me an expert on deciding what is 'good' or not.
In fact, if we go that route, since this is a game we should all be listening to the game reviewers, who have overwhelmingly given Mass Effect 3 excellent scores.

But that's not the complete picture. If so many people complain SOMETHING SOMEWHERE went wrong. It might be the writing, it might be the expectations that were fostered, it might be a miscalculation by BioWare writers.

What does remain a fact though, is that sometimes a tiny change can turn mass rejection into mass appreciation. And most of the time it's NOT what people were complaining about.
I'll give one example: during WoW's development they had a 'tired' mechanic. If you played for too long, your xp gains were halved to 50%. The reaction was terrible! Everyone hated it and wanted it gone.
Then Blizzard renamed the values. The mechanic became known as 'rested'. Instead of becoming tired from playing too much, you become rested from not playing for a while and gain 200% XP. 
The actual gameplay outcome is IDENTICAL, but this time reaction was great! Everyone loved it!

I've seen and heard many more examples of this; including one that I can't quite perfectly recall, but it came down to changing the colour of one part of the set actually changed people's opinions on the costume design.

Oh I fully agree that they could get rid of most of the negative backlash without actually changing any of what is currently there.  They could leave the Catalyst in as is, horribly flawed logic and inconsistent tone/themes intact, and just give us text-box epilogues for most of the major decisions/characters, and most people would probably find the closure to be enough that there wouldn't be any real "movement" left.

But as far as your point about listening to game reviewers, too many people are using the "art" defense for that to be a valid point.  If we just judge ME3 as a game, it's a somewhat flawed experience that is still mostly fun.  It is precisely when it is judged as art, when we judge the quality of the narrative, that the ending becomes truly terrible.  Due not to anything inherently wrong with the concept or themes presented, but simply due to the way they appear to contradict the rest of the series, without the necessary work done to provide them with a context that would make them fit.  A movie with the script of ME3 (assuming any particular choice set as canon) would not get perfect reviews.  It would be lucky to have an average Metacritic score in the 70s.

If people want games to be treated as art, then those games should be held to the same standard as other art, not judged less harshly because it's "just a game."

[atheimetal]

I liked it initially, before the luster of the brutal final mission and terrifying walk to the beam / down the hallway wore off. But the more I have thought about it since, the less happy I am with it. I just want to feel like my choices actually mattered at any point. I would be okay with plot holes if the game at least validated the choices I have been making since the first one. But the A,B,C thing is the exact opposite of that..

[Rosey]

Militarized wrote...

They just happen to be popping up while they're starting their PR campaign >.>

I'm sure some of them honestly liked it but... most of them that did didn't seem to play ME1 and ME2 or they seemed to be more of the action player, not really delving into the world and caring about it.

They mostly just go "Oh that was a deep ending" without a thought about the rest of the questions asked through out the entire game and that they don't line up with the ending philosophy.

This fustrates me. I'm a "liker", though I use that word lightly because it's more that I just don't dislike it. There are a million ways they could have gone with it that would have made it better -- but I don't hate it, and I get it.

That being said, folks who assume that we who don't hate the ending must just be action players is rediculous. I've been a very long time player of these games -- I first played ME on Xbox 3 years ago. And yet, le gasp, I don't hate the ending, and enjoy it for what it is and how it goes.

Be confused, that's fine, but don't assume that we're all new players to the franchise or are action players.

*fuffs*<_<

[Ryokun1989]

jbauck wrote...

I see the phrase "suspension of disbelief" crop up occasionally - but the whole phrase is really "willing suspension of disbelief". The "willing" part is important, because it represents the audience's willingness to believe ridiculous things in order to experience a great story.

Some people's suspension of disbelief is more willing than others - which is to say, some people are more inclined to turn off their critical-thinking-wtf? filter and just accept what they're told in order to enjoy a story. That's not a criticism or a dig, I'm just pointing out that different people have a different threshhold at which their suspension of disbelief is no longer willing. These people aren't stupid, they just have a better ability to "go with it" for the sake of a story.

For me, my willingness to suspend disbelief broke when, at the last minute, a new character was introduced, the new character in turn introduced numerous plot holes, and then Shepard was presented with 3 Doom Pits of Salvation (sometimes a literal pit, but basically, something the hero or hero's friends can jump into that will kill the person who jumps in, but magically saves everyone else/solves the stories conflict) as the only possible resolutions to the reaper war.

I just couldn't accept the story anymore at that point, but other people could *shrug* Willing suspension of disbelief. It's that simple for why some people liked the ending.

This is a good point, but it also ties in with expectations. If you were expecting shenanigans surrounding the motivations of the reapers and their actual logistics, your suspension of disbelief is less likely to break when presented with the god child.

Different things also work for different people. Some friends of mine find LARP extremely immersive and very easy to suspend their disbelief. I personally really can't get past the silly costumes and bad acting (it's not made to look good, I know). Just doesn't work for me.

As I had a sneaky suspicion that everything past being hit by Harbinger wasn't meant to be taken completely litterally, I was very excited by the final scenes' philosophical slant.

[Ricvenart]

It's nice that some people can enjoy the ending for what it is.

I don't mean to sound condesending in saying that either, I wish I could see though plot holes and lies easier, though that probably makes it sound worse.

But there is only so much to say, Everything starchild says is a fallacy and lie, beyond getting hit by the beam the whole game is weird, maybe it was a way to do indoctrination they had to cut maybe it's just an artifact of a shredded story.
People are just waiting now, see biowares next move, if it's DLC they want to buy (Ending) or a exercise in futility, in which case they hope that people not buying it will make that message more clear. Frankly I want to see an apology, they can cut it however they like, be from Bioware or certain individuals, they don't have to admit wrong doing in someway or touch the exegerated advertising but if they expect us to play nice and not make broad insulting generalizations, the least they can do is also not make them and charge for it or apologise for them. (see sig.)

Though expect if you post that you like the 1 hour cutscene ending for it to be torn to shreds. (other thread.)

[Lightice_av]

[quote]charon45 wrote...

You are assuming that it still works, which is not a given because the ship crashed, and that it is enough to help find them after crashing on a planet in uncharted space.[quote]

Ofcourse it works. It worked fine the last time the Normandy got completely trashed in Mass Effect 2. Even though the very room it was set in was filled with rubble!

[quote]They don't.  I'm not sure how else to say this.  NOTHING in what they say indicates that space travel is routine.[/quote]

They say when, rather than if concerning the child's desire to go to the stars. It's pretty indicative that it's perfectly possible, if not even probable turn of events.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 19 mars 2012 - 05:25 .

[Tovanus]

Are people who like the ending lacking in intelligence? No. (Unless they really fail to recognize the numerous shoddy plotholes). Do they have very low standards for a satisfying conclusion? Yes. I can't say that I have consistently high standards either. We all make exceptions for lower standards from time to time. I mean, when I play a game like something in the more recent Final Fantasy entries, I tend to enjoy the story even though I know there's about a 75% chance that the ending will involve every problem being solved by a vague power of love and friendship.

[Crusina]

Diablos2525 wrote...

I've been seeing a lot of people like the endings of Mass effect 3. I have to wonder though, are they really big fans of the series or have they just picked up the latest one and put "action mode" or whatever on. Because the ending makes no sense... at all, and goes against the lore established by previous mass effect games and dlc. Are these people just ****s, or simply ignorant? Every time they say they like the ending they never give a reason why. Is it the fact that it was ripped straight from Deus Ex 1. Or the fact that it creates 10 plotholes, or the fact that it goes against the whole purpose of the series where you collect forces to stop the Reapers only to make the collection of those forces pointless since we all get 98% the same ending.

I am seriously so confused, how can people be so stupid? Have they not finished the game?

EDIT: I'm wondering if all the people who finished the game first were mostly series fans, whereas now we are seeing a bunch of first time fans finishing the game weeks later?

Don't ever, assume you know what my opinion is, and don't ever assume you speak for me.

I like the endings for a reason, and I dislike the ending for a reason.

My opinion does not hurt you in any way shape or form.

So why should you attack me for it?

Modifié par Crusina, 19 mars 2012 - 05:24 .

[RockyRoberts]

We have a lot of control over this. Every dollar EA has used from Mass Effect came from our pockets, not theirs. We made the series into what it is, and now we are fighting to keep it at the top of a sci-fi fan's "classics" list...

I applaud you for using your imagination.

Yes there are more important things in life, like showing that we care enough about something to donate to a good cause and help out in other ways. Just because people are on here on the forums holding the line does not mean that they do not have a life and are just simply heartbroken by a video
game.

We can all agree the this video game series was a piece of art, even the devs/people on the other side of the fence...now let us think about humanity's history for a split second and see how much "art" has influenced the real world, or as you put it, the "more important things in life"