Ryokun1989 wrote...
Xarathos wrote...
The problem seems to be largely that we're analyzing the ending from two completely different viewpoints.
As far as I can tell, the ending 'likers' seem to believe that the ending must be evaluated subjectively, and that therefore their interpritation of the ending makes it 'good' - at least for them. And so far as subjective judgements go, they're right - that's the definition of subjective. There's also a group of them who are part of the 'indoctrination' theory camp, but have reached the conclusion that because an analysis of the endings that explains some of our objections is possible (and exists) that this makes the ending 'good.'
As near as I can tell, most of the ending 'haters' (including myself in that category) seem to believe that the ending can be analyzed objectively, and that it is objectively bad. In my specific case, I am a design student, and as such I also reject the belief that there is no objective standard on which art can be judged.
Neither is stupid. Just different.
And then there is a small group on BOTH sides who are doing their best to troll everyone. Because that's just how the internet works. These people will go about attempting to provoke a reaction from the other side with comments like, "you just don't understand the ending," or "you're showing signs of gamer entitlement! Wah!"
And before someone from the other side jumps on me, I do enjoy literary analysis. That's why I believe firmly that writing can be evaluated objectively, and why I've come to the conclusion that this ending is objectively bad. Because I reject the themes it presents; I reject the last minute villain reveal; and yes, in terms of a game I want to play multiple times, I feel very strongly that a 'happy' ending should be an OPTION for those who are willing to put in the work to pursue it.
If you liked it, fine. Noone can take that away from you.
There is no reason we cannot be civil about this. Let's keep the name calling to a minimum, please. Nobody is the enemy here. This is not a war. It is a ... how to phrase? A philosophical disagreement. Over a video game.
I like how you act reasonable and at the same time alledge that we are all liking something 'objectively bad'... That's not *entirely* extending an olive branch.
How do you figure the god child is a villain? What themes are these that you reject? How do you define 'happy ending'? What would have needed to happen for it to count as happy? One theme is self-sacrifice.. wouldn't it weaken the premise if you have Shepard live without very serious consequence?
Also, how does how 'happy' the ending is impact how replayable the game becomes?
You're not the only design student here; nor the only one who thinks there's no such things as objective analysis.
You misunderstand my position, evidently: I believe there IS such a thing as objective analysis, otherwise I wouldn't have picked the position I have in the debate. I believe a Monet is objectively better than a fingerpainting I made in kindergarten, for example.
My position, namely: I actually LIKE the indoctrination theory as far as it goes, but hate the fact that it needs to exist in order to explain the glaring flaws I percieve in the ending.
I'll respond to your other points as follows. I do not wish to attack the views of others, merely to explain my own.
1) The god child is a villain because he views genocide as an acceptable solution to a problem, and that organic life IS that problem. Genocide is, to my thinking, universally evil. He created the reapers and sees their actions as acceptable. They are not.
2) I reject the theme of organics always fighting synthetics and always being destoryed by them, because I judge them on their merits as individuals. EDI and the geth do not fit this theme or trend, therefore I reject the assumption it is built upon as both racist and evil, and easily disproven from within the games own lore. I object strongly to the fact that Shepard fails to raise this objection, regardless of whether or not he is seen to be in a 'dream state.' I also reject control as immoral, and synthesis as horrifying. Both allow tools of unrepentant evil to continue existing, and the second one requires me to force the god child's vision of perfection on an entire galaxy. After an entire game of listening to EDI and Javik speak on the importance of diversity, and 2.9 games bringing that same point to bear on the plot, this is very distressing. Destroy demands that I commit incidental murder and genocide in order to accomplish my goal; thus it is equally abhorrant.
3) Practically anything other than what we got would be a happy ending, at this point. Anything that provides a sense of achievement and victory. And yes, I got the 'Shepard lives,' screen. It didn't help.
4) Being forced into a choice predicated on faulty logic requires me to invalidate the self-sacrifice of everyone who fought and died to get me to that point; Legion and Mordin both come to mind. I find this upsetting; moreso than Shepard's death alone would upset me. That would merely be sad, and I can accept sadness. And again, after all the sacrifices Shepard made to get there, letting the character LIVE wouldn't invalidate anything. The serious consequences have already happened.
5) The games replay value is null and void if I feel the outcome is going to be exactly the same no matter what I do in an RPG supposedly built around my choices. At the very least, it's lower than Mass Effect 2 was; there's nothing to chase. Even if Shepard died, I would accept that if not for the other glaring problems.
6) I never said I was. I was merely attempting to offer some perspective in response to the OP, who I felt was being just a bit inflamatory. I just don't see why we need to fight with each other. I'm entitled to my opinion, you're entitled to yours. Both are reasonable, they just arise from different premises. That is all.
I apologize if I present myself poorly; it was not my intention to be rude.
Obviously, my viewpoint above assumes the ending should be taken at face value. If BioWare intended otherwise, they conveyed this very poorly.
Modifié par Xarathos, 19 mars 2012 - 06:26 .
Retour en haut
