1309 réponses à ce sujet

[Gunslinger01101]

tmsolberg wrote...

I think the main difference between the "haters" and the "likers" is this;
"Ending likers" just play the game for the action. No time to think about stuff, just play through and go back to #insert any COD-title here".
"Ending haters" reflect on what they are experiencing, read the codex, play the game with lore in mind. "Ending haters" take a part in the wonderful world.

Thats what I think, anyway.


Hold the line!

PS. I have been a huge Bioware fan and I really enjoy the ME series. But if this isn't fixed I really don't think I'll buy more Bioware titles... Tragic really.

This is so epically false I can't even begin to address the falsehood. If anything the ending haters are the ones that beat the game in a day and didn't actually think about anything that happened. I've been playing ME since before they had computers (alternatively/more realistically since it came out in 2007...the very day of). SO you can take your theories about who has what opinions and shove them somewhere uncomfortable.

P.S. "Hold the Line" was so lame MORDIN made fun of Kirrahe for it. I love that you people chose THAT one.

[Xeranx]

stupid forum coding. never mind.

Modifié par Xeranx, 19 mars 2012 - 06:40 .

[wrdnshprd]

i actually had an indifferent reaction to the endings at the start. i then started discussing it with friends and such, and realized that.. yeah, there are some problems.

that being said, i do think folks on the BSN go to far sometimes.

we have gotten a lot of praise for the RetakeME3 movement.. overall its been pretty constructive.. lets try and keep it that way.

[BatmanPWNS]

Cuz it's, wait for it, an OPINION.

[DemGeth]

YeGodz wrote...

Dear posters:

If you're one of the many in this thread who have insisted that most or all of the people who liked the ending are paid shills, I have a question for you:

Who, exactly, are you trying to convince?

Oh good I'm not the only one being called a paid shill.  

They probably message each other back and forth "OMG that guy works for EA......Yea definetly bro see what he said here"


lol

[Ryokun1989]

Lightice_av wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I submit that you should keep the insults to those insulting you or - better yet - do not sink to their level at all.
I take lowest common denominator as an insult. I am not looking for an action flick with a cliche ending. I'm looknig for meaningful resolution and an outcome affected by my work that I put into the game.

I have made effort to avoid insulting anybody. I am not, however at best of moods after the aforementioned volleys of insults, so you just have to accept that I'm being rather prickly at the moment.

And it's the action flick cliché ending that you will get with your behaviour. If Bioware publishes a new ending, they will make it as boringly inoffensive as humanly possible to avoid the same fan reaction again. They'll aim straight at the lower reaches of the lowest common denominator and give the ranters exactly what they've been wishing for: something entirely predictable, ready-chewed garbage. Because nothing less will satisfy even half of the complainers at this point.

What this guy said.

[Gunslinger01101]

Lankist wrote...

Xarathos wrote...


You misunderstand my position, evidently: I believe there IS such a thing as objective analysis, otherwise I wouldn't have picked the position I have in the debate. I believe a Monet is objectively better than a fingerpainting I made in kindergarten, for example.

My position, namely: I actually LIKE the indoctrination theory as far as it goes, but hate the fact that it needs to exist in order to explain the glaring flaws I percieve in the ending.

I'll respond to your other points as follows. I do not wish to attack the views of others, merely to explain my own.

Words

Buddy, if you need to explain the symbolism, it isn't symbolism.

Lol, never taken a lit class have ya. Go learn a little about the real world of made up worlds, then come back and speak with intelligence, rather than out of ignorance, as you are now.

[YeGodz]

I'm forwarding this thread to my corporate masters at EA. They'll probably want to invest in tinfoil. Clearly there's an untapped market here.

/Conspiracy being vaster than you think

[The Angry One]

Persephone wrote...

Sound familiar? You reap what your "movement" sows. Speak up against those who insult those who like the endings....if you want to be a paragon of justice.

I'm not a paragon of justice. I just want an ending that doesn't make me feel like I've been kicked in the stomach.
That's all I'm arguing for. I don't care to be a mediator. Either ignore those being outright insulting or report them. The mods are supposed to be getting rid of people like that anyway.

Can you refute that you people ARE fanatics? That the loudest of you are just that?

I refute it. We just want the endings we were promised. You'll find "fanatics" in any "cause".

Why should they. given your behavior? You'll catch more flies with...etc. Ah, diplomacy.

Diplomacy is a two way street. Most of us have been civil in presenting our wishes.

There is NO comparison. NONE. To even suggest this is disgusting and ignorant.

When discussing the implications of the ending, it does lead to the conclusion that synthesis endorses intolerance, whereas destroy and the Catalyst's general arguments endorse genocide.
I wouldn't bother to make the comparison myself because it's trivialising a real life issue, but I'm saying that's what I think the reasoning behind it is.

[Persephone]

Lightice_av wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I submit that you should keep the insults to those insulting you or - better yet - do not sink to their level at all.
I take lowest common denominator as an insult. I am not looking for an action flick with a cliche ending. I'm looknig for meaningful resolution and an outcome affected by my work that I put into the game.

I have made effort to avoid insulting anybody. I am not, however at best of moods after the aforementioned volleys of insults, so you just have to accept that I'm being rather prickly at the moment.

And it's the action flick cliché ending that you will get with your behaviour. If Bioware publishes a new ending, they will make it as boringly inoffensive as humanly possible to avoid the same fan reaction again. They'll aim straight at the lower reaches of the lowest common denominator and give the ranters exactly what they've been wishing for: something entirely predictable, ready-chewed garbage. Because nothing less will satisfy even half of the complainers at this point.

Those are my fears as well.

[The Angry One]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

 I love the ending because it was so emotionally powerful for me. I agree that it had plenty of inconsistencies, but it did not have any more inconsistency than the games have had in the past (and that ME3 had up to that point).

Come at me bros.

Shepard surrendering and Joker abandoning Shepard are major lore-breaking inconsistencies. 
They are two things neither character would ever do.

[The Real Bowser]

Captain Shakespeare wrote...

Because people that don't support the ending have simmered down a bit, maybe? It does seem as if things have calmed down a bit...

I'm tired of sitting on the forums 24/7 wishing for updates.  Instead of posting constantly for hours on end I am checking occasionally for updates.

Trust me, I haven't 'simmered down', I'm just tired of grasping for straws.  Bioware will announce stuff when they are ready.  I can at least respect that much, but I won't wait forever.

[darkshadow136]

tmsolberg wrote...

I think the main difference between the "haters" and the "likers" is this;
"Ending likers" just play the game for the action. No time to think about stuff, just play through and go back to #insert any COD-title here".
"Ending haters" reflect on what they are experiencing, read the codex, play the game with lore in mind. "Ending haters" take a part in the wonderful world.

Thats what I think, anyway.


Hold the line!

PS. I have been a huge Bioware fan and I really enjoy the ME series. But if this isn't fixed I really don't think I'll buy more Bioware titles... Tragic really.

I agree with your statement. I also think some of the likers are just trolls trying to stir stuff up as well, but I could be wrong, and some of the haters can't be on here all the time becuase life's call and they need to get back to other responsabilities, it does not mean they dislike the ending any less, just that they can't be on here constently giving feedback.

Hold The Line

[The Angry One]

Lightice_av wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I submit that you should keep the insults to those insulting you or - better yet - do not sink to their level at all.
I take lowest common denominator as an insult. I am not looking for an action flick with a cliche ending. I'm looknig for meaningful resolution and an outcome affected by my work that I put into the game.

I have made effort to avoid insulting anybody. I am not, however at best of moods after the aforementioned volleys of insults, so you just have to accept that I'm being rather prickly at the moment.

Then you'll have to accept that I too have a headache from constant derision and am touchy over the subject.
In any case there's no need to lump either side into one ball and attack them because of it.

And it's the action flick cliché ending that you will get with your behaviour. If Bioware publishes a new ending, they will make it as boringly inoffensive as humanly possible to avoid the same fan reaction again. They'll aim straight at the lower reaches of the lowest common denominator and give the ranters exactly what they've been wishing for: something entirely predictable, ready-chewed garbage. Because nothing less will satisfy even half of the complainers at this point.

We have stated quite clearly that what we want is a reflection of our actions upon the ending.
Bleak endings should be for those who don't gather war assets or make certain choices, better endings should be for those that do. I trust BioWare to not repeat their mistakes IF they admit they made one, and to make endings their way as they always have.

Modifié par The Angry One, 19 mars 2012 - 06:44 .

[ImperaTodd]

I liked parts of the ending. I didn't care for the Normandy running or crashing but the rest I actually liked. I have been playing since it was Xbox only. I bought the PC version and played. Kept my saves played ME2 and kept my saves. I imported my saves into ME3 and have played it. I like what happens. We ended a series of cycles lasting billions of years. There is going to be a price. The relays were the gift of the catalyst and builders to the galaxy, the trade off was the reaping. So I get that part.

I resent the comments that say because I liked the endings I must be a drone or am less of a fan. Those comments are hurting your movement. While totally invalidating the ending isn't something I support I do support the move to get alternate endings. I may like parts of what was shown but a chance see another outcome just for the fun of it I am totally down for. Just throwing this in there killing another ship? Come one BW not another one.

[saracen16]

Persephone wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I submit that you should keep the insults to those insulting you or - better yet - do not sink to their level at all.
I take lowest common denominator as an insult. I am not looking for an action flick with a cliche ending. I'm looknig for meaningful resolution and an outcome affected by my work that I put into the game.

I have made effort to avoid insulting anybody. I am not, however at best of moods after the aforementioned volleys of insults, so you just have to accept that I'm being rather prickly at the moment.

And it's the action flick cliché ending that you will get with your behaviour. If Bioware publishes a new ending, they will make it as boringly inoffensive as humanly possible to avoid the same fan reaction again. They'll aim straight at the lower reaches of the lowest common denominator and give the ranters exactly what they've been wishing for: something entirely predictable, ready-chewed garbage. Because nothing less will satisfy even half of the complainers at this point.

Those are my fears as well.

And mine, too. I liked the fact that the ending was really involving, and forced you to think about your previous decisions in the game.

[Lightice_av]

The Angry One wrote...

Shepard surrendering and Joker abandoning Shepard are major lore-breaking inconsistencies. 
They are two things neither character would ever do.

Shepard doesn't surrender. Like Legion, Shepard chooses to save as many as possible, no matter what the cost. And Joker doesn't abandon Shepard. He's trying to preserve Shepard's legacy by escaping by what must seem like a total failure in absence of better knowledge.

[Xarathos]

Ryokun1989 wrote...


I'm sorry, it was I who mistyped, because I do think there is such a thing as objective analysis. I just don't think it can end with a statement such as 'good'. It'll always be relative to other works and the intention of the author.

If the God child's solution is genocide can be debated. He claims to help people ascend rather than kill them. It is my interpretation that the child is a for all intent and purposes a God and doesn't lie. Is he good or evil? Wrong question if you ask me. He 'reaps' civilizations so new ones can grow and a technological singularity can be avoided.

The created rebelling against their creators has always been a theme in Mass Effect. I accept it as one of the rules of the universe. It's basically the concept of technological singularity. In fact, that theory says a technological singularity is inevitable!

I don't think there are any other choices than the ones represented? If the Reapers go, so must their creation: the mass relays.

I don't see how one could accept the word 'ascention' for what the reapers did to those colonists in ME2, but I'm willing to concede that my definition of genocide might be somewhat narrow minded... and those are words I never thought I'd type. Maybe that explanation is acceptable to some, fine. It doesn't change the horror.

Moreover, that ability to respond and argue with that point is part of what makes Shepard Shepard. The fact that we're not even allowed to contest it... is troubling.

I don't think that the 'creator/created' conflict has always been a theme, and the existence of Legion (and the exposition on the geth/quarian war we get in ME3) kind of flies in the face of that idea... at least it does for me. I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell unity and judging individuals on their own merits is ALSO a core theme of Mass Effect, and I want to see it honored in the ending.

I've never been comfortable with the idea of the technological singularity, and I'm even less comfortable with the idea of being the one to choose it for everyone. Forcing homogenization on the diverse races of the galaxy strikes me as morally repugnant, but if you're comfortable with it, fine.

And when I say 'good' I mean in the sense that it correctly conveys authorial intent, honors the themes of the entire work, and is well executed on a technical level. In my judgement, the current ending is none of those things.

I'm willing to agree to disagree. What I'd like to see is something that expands on the current endings in a way that satisfies both viewpoints.

[Persephone]

The Angry One wrote...


I refute it. We just want the endings we were promised. You'll find "fanatics" in any "cause".

Why should they. given your behavior? You'll catch more flies with...etc. Ah, diplomacy.

Diplomacy is a two way street. Most of us have been civil in presenting our wishes.


When discussing the implications of the ending, it does lead to the conclusion that synthesis endorses intolerance, whereas destroy and the Catalyst's general arguments endorse genocide.
I wouldn't bother to make the comparison myself because it's trivialising a real life issue, but I'm saying that's what I think the reasoning behind it is.

And what are the endings you were promised? List them, all of them. I sure am curious to find out.

No.

Intolerance? Hardly. Against whom?

The genocide (Destroying the Reapers is genocide too) is an OPTION. As it was in ME1. It's not endorsed.

Way to excuse such a disgusting comparison. ACTUAL suffering compared to pixels and people not getting theeeeeeeeeir endings. YEESH!

[Lankist]

saracen16 wrote...

Xarathos wrote...

Lankist wrote...

Xarathos wrote...


You misunderstand my position, evidently: I believe there IS such a thing as objective analysis, otherwise I wouldn't have picked the position I have in the debate. I believe a Monet is objectively better than a fingerpainting I made in kindergarten, for example.

My position, namely: I actually LIKE the indoctrination theory as far as it goes, but hate the fact that it needs to exist in order to explain the glaring flaws I percieve in the ending.

I'll respond to your other points as follows. I do not wish to attack the views of others, merely to explain my own.

Words

Buddy, if you need to explain the symbolism, it isn't symbolism.

Or a Roger Ebert put it, "If you have to ask what it symbolized, it didn't."

I disagree: a lot of people do not understand symbolism because they're too busy taking the issue literally. If you take the issue too literally, then of course symbolism should be explained.

Again, that's the writer's fault, not the audience. It's the writer's job to make the audience care. If folks walk away from a film saying "that was dumb," you can't try to explain it to them in the lobby on the way out. It's too late for that, it should have been made clear in the film, not in the post-film ******.

Modifié par Lankist, 19 mars 2012 - 06:46 .

[The Angry One]

saracen16 wrote...

And mine, too. I liked the fact that the ending was really involving, and forced you to think about your previous decisions in the game.

The ending makes all of those decisions irrelevant, so I guess it does make you think about them..

[xsdob]

darkshadow136 wrote...

tmsolberg wrote...

I think the main difference between the "haters" and the "likers" is this;
"Ending likers" just play the game for the action. No time to think about stuff, just play through and go back to #insert any COD-title here".
"Ending haters" reflect on what they are experiencing, read the codex, play the game with lore in mind. "Ending haters" take a part in the wonderful world.

Thats what I think, anyway.


Hold the line!

PS. I have been a huge Bioware fan and I really enjoy the ME series. But if this isn't fixed I really don't think I'll buy more Bioware titles... Tragic really.

I agree with your statement. I also think some of the likers are just trolls trying to stir stuff up as well, but I could be wrong, and some of the haters can't be on here all the time becuase life's call and they need to get back to other responsabilities, it does not mean they dislike the ending any less, just that they can't be on here constently giving feedback.

Hold The Line

So anyone who likes the ending is either a COd noob or a troll? how nice to see an unbiased look at someone elses opinion.

Next up, WoW fans, Basement Trolls or Fat Guys with Peter Pan Complexes, you decide.

[Persephone]

The Angry One wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

 I love the ending because it was so emotionally powerful for me. I agree that it had plenty of inconsistencies, but it did not have any more inconsistency than the games have had in the past (and that ME3 had up to that point).

Come at me bros.

Shepard surrendering and Joker abandoning Shepard are major lore-breaking inconsistencies. 
They are two things neither character would ever do.

Joker is not abandoning Shep. For all he knows Shep is dead AND he needs to ESCAPE that blast.

Surrender? He all but surrendered to Cerberus in ME2 when he NEVER walked away!

[piemanz]

The Angry One wrote...

Lightice_av wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I submit that you should keep the insults to those insulting you or - better yet - do not sink to their level at all.
I take lowest common denominator as an insult. I am not looking for an action flick with a cliche ending. I'm looknig for meaningful resolution and an outcome affected by my work that I put into the game.

I have made effort to avoid insulting anybody. I am not, however at best of moods after the aforementioned volleys of insults, so you just have to accept that I'm being rather prickly at the moment.

Then you'll have to accept that I too have a headache from constant derision and am touchy over the subject.
In any case there's no need to lump either side into one ball and attack them because of it.

And it's the action flick cliché ending that you will get with your behaviour. If Bioware publishes a new ending, they will make it as boringly inoffensive as humanly possible to avoid the same fan reaction again. They'll aim straight at the lower reaches of the lowest common denominator and give the ranters exactly what they've been wishing for: something entirely predictable, ready-chewed garbage. Because nothing less will satisfy even half of the complainers at this point.

We have stated quite clearly that what we want is a reflection of our actions upon the ending.
Bleak endings should be for those who don't gather war assets or make certain choices, better endings should be for those that do. I trust BioWare to not repeat their mistakes IF they admit they made one, and to make endings their way as they always have.

Why can't you just accept that some things are not within yours or shepards control. It doesn't matter how many forces you had against the Reapers it doesn't change the fact that there was no way we were going to win conventionally. It was stated throught the whole game that the crucible was the "last hope", changing it now would require a massive rewrite or it'll create more holes than it fixes.