1309 réponses à ce sujet

[Shiran]

Dimensio wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Persephone wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Shiran wrote...

Well, it is already like that? Those who do not gather enough assets do not get option for best ending (green ending)

It is not the "best" ending at all, it is the most nonsensical.
And still destroys the galaxy.

According to you. You ask for respect, yet you sneer at anyone who likes the endings. Yeesh, LET THEM.

I called synthesis nonsensical. It is. It makes no sense. It uses magic to solve a problem that exists only in the mind of the Catalyst.
How is that sneering at those who like it? You can like it all you want. It still makes no sense.

Synthesis seems illogical to many players because no previous in-game event or conversation reasonably foreshadowed it.  Previously, "synthesis" was only addressed with Saren -- whose "synthesis" was explicitly a part of his indoctrination -- and with the soldiers of the Reapers -- whose "synthesis" was actually a repurposing them to the Reaper's ends, using the bodies as tech transport and augmentation after killing the host -- which provided no reason for the player to ever consider "synthesis" to be a laudible goal.  The Catylist's claim that synthesis is the "next step" of the evolution of life is therefore without any meaningful contextual basis.

Had the story of the game -- or, preferably, of the trilogy -- provided subtle hints, even hints that were not obvious until referenced in a single event at the conclusion of the story, that synthesis was the ultimate (and desirable) conclusion of the relationship between organic and non-organic intelligence, the choice would not have been so illogical.

Synthesis with Saren and Cerberus was indoctrination as you pointed out. Specifically organics becoming modified in very crass ways by Reapers. Synthesis as outlined by the Catalyst is creation of entirely new DNA that applied equally to both organics and synthetics. Everything is changed and elevated to new standard. It not just Transhumanism it is also Transmachinism.

[savionen]

Ryokun1989 wrote...

savionen wrote...

You're just speculating different answers... too. How do you know that pure-synthetics can't be created anymore? All life becomes part synthetic-part organic, that doesn't mean that you can't change things, again.

Why would we believe that all Reapers are inside the Milky Way? The supernovas from the Mass Relays are what kill the Reapers.... they live in DARK SPACE. Are 100% of Reapers convinently standing next to Mass Relays? Half of what the kid says is BS. He says that Shepard will die in the Destroy ending but Shepard can still live.

... because the kid says so!
They're not supernovas! Look at the Earth! If you have enough assets, it's fine!
*facepalm*

I misused the word supernova. I meant the shockwave from each Mass Relay, whatever you want to call it. The big WAVE is what kills the Reapers. It seems logical that not every single Reaper in existance is next to a Mass Relay.

Modifié par savionen, 19 mars 2012 - 07:23 .

[Vikali]

The Angry One wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

I synthesized organics and synthetics + cured the Krogan genophage + saved both Quarians and Geth + got Conrad Verner hooked up and actually making a difference + Khalisah helping out the war effort + wiping out the Rachni AFTER I saved them on Noveria + saving the council while convincing Kaidan not to stand in my way + ... the list goes on.

In life, the journey is just as important as the destination.

Let's play negative nancy, aka "realist"

- You cured the Krogan so they will overpopulate their planet. Also, they're left without their leader, Wrex.
- You united the Quarians and Geth to strand them on the other side of the galaxy from Rannoch.
- Conrad Verner is dead. The Reapers killed everyone on the Citadel, or if they didn't, you did when you blew it up.
- Ditto Kalisha
- So much for the Rachni amounting to anything.
- The Council is also dead.

- New leaders can step up. They can also still travel within their cluster.
- I'd say they have it the easiest since they have the Geth with them. Not to mention if you synth'd, a lot of problems become irrelevant. Like Saren said, the strength of both and the weakness of neither.
- Being dead doesn't mean he didn't matter.
- Why trust a giant cockroach?
- Like I said, being dead doesnt mean someone never mattered.

[The Angry One]

saracen16 wrote...

But they don't necessarily destroy the star systems like the asteroid did in Arrival, which was more like detonating a rocket launcher that killed a person. A more apt analogy in this case would be what happens to a human's arm (but not to the human as a whole) after operating a Claymore shotgun that he wasn't trained for.

Irrelevant, with no relay travel these devastated systems will wither and die. They NEED help.

1. The retreat order disproves this assertion...

There is no retreat order. The fleets remain at Sol right until the end. YOU SEE THEM DURING THE CATALYST SCENE.

The retreat order exists only in your head.

2. ...and there is no chance that EVERY SINGLE LIVING THING in the galaxy went to Earth: they also have their own interests to protect.

Their strongest fleets and best people went to Earth. People like Wrex who are NEEDED by their people to lead them into a new era.

The Citadel was blown to smithereens, to tiny bits that are comparable to a meteor shower landing on Earth's surface: almost no harm comes of it.

The wards are intact.
Let me state this again so you understand.

THE WARDS ARE INTACT.

[saracen16]

savionen wrote...

@saracen

Okay. So the ending of the ending is terrible. Back to square one.

Casey Hudson: "So we designed Mass Effect 3 to be a series of endings to key plots and storylines, each culminating in scenes that show you the consequences of your actions.  You then carry the knowledge of these consequences with you as you complete the final moments of your journey."

It doesn't get any clearer than that.

But yeah, I suppose with you it's back to Square One if you want to keep repeating the same copy-pasted arguments over and over and over and over again. You didn't even respond to my post properly.

Modifié par saracen16, 19 mars 2012 - 07:24 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Lankist wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Lankist wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Not a "fact" at all.

It's the fact that we were left with--the last thing we saw of the entire franchise. Whatever speculation you make thereafter is completely irrelevant, because if that were intended, it would have been in the game.

The last we saw was someone telling Shepard's story. So no, life thrived, not "everybody died" blabla.

If you need to flash-forward however many centuries into the future to find one semi-happy moment to leave on, perhaps it is not all that happy of an ending.

The "big picture" ending simply does not work because everything prior to the eleventh hour was a narrowly-focused character drama. It'd be like ending Friends by killing all of the Friends in a massive bus accident on their way to that coffee place, then flash-forwarding to the year 2183 just to show that the coffee place still exists.

Really? Our collective survival was one of the primary goals of the series - not how much technology gets preserved or the state of our current world or proving that everyone survived the immediate aftermath of the war. We were fighting so that we have some kind of future for us all, and the coda shows that our sacrifice was not for nothing. We succeeded. And despite there being a lot of character drama, this is not Friends in space. It's sci-fi above all else, and sometimes sci-fi is about the big picture and the big ideas.

[Dimensio]

Shiran wrote...

Dimensio wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Persephone wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Shiran wrote...

Well, it is already like that? Those who do not gather enough assets do not get option for best ending (green ending)

It is not the "best" ending at all, it is the most nonsensical.
And still destroys the galaxy.

According to you. You ask for respect, yet you sneer at anyone who likes the endings. Yeesh, LET THEM.

I called synthesis nonsensical. It is. It makes no sense. It uses magic to solve a problem that exists only in the mind of the Catalyst.
How is that sneering at those who like it? You can like it all you want. It still makes no sense.

Synthesis seems illogical to many players because no previous in-game event or conversation reasonably foreshadowed it.  Previously, "synthesis" was only addressed with Saren -- whose "synthesis" was explicitly a part of his indoctrination -- and with the soldiers of the Reapers -- whose "synthesis" was actually a repurposing them to the Reaper's ends, using the bodies as tech transport and augmentation after killing the host -- which provided no reason for the player to ever consider "synthesis" to be a laudible goal.  The Catylist's claim that synthesis is the "next step" of the evolution of life is therefore without any meaningful contextual basis.

Had the story of the game -- or, preferably, of the trilogy -- provided subtle hints, even hints that were not obvious until referenced in a single event at the conclusion of the story, that synthesis was the ultimate (and desirable) conclusion of the relationship between organic and non-organic intelligence, the choice would not have been so illogical.

Synthesis with Saren and Cerberus was indoctrination as you pointed out. Specifically organics becoming modified in very crass ways by Reapers. Synthesis as outlined by the Catalyst is creation of entirely new DNA that applied equally to both organics and synthetics. Everything is changed and elevated to new standard. It not just Transhumanism it is also Transmachinism.

When, exactly, was this concept foreshadowed previously within the series or within the final game?

[TyDurden13]

Joker being stranded is not a plot hole. What is a plot hole is why the Normandy was the only ship that had to run away from the explosion.

[Shiran]

saracen16 wrote...

No. Here's my ending.

I synthesized organics and synthetics + cured the Krogan genophage + saved both Quarians and Geth + got Conrad Verner hooked up and actually making a difference + Khalisah helping out the war effort + wiping out the Rachni AFTER I saved them on Noveria + saving the council while convincing Kaidan not to stand in my way + ... the list goes on.

In life, the journey is just as important as the destination.

<Space high five> So good to see someone gets it. It gives me hope

[Xeranx]

Ryokun1989 wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

This thread is moving kind of fast, but can someone confirm if the developers actually came out and said that Joker did leave the Sol system?

No, they didn't.

Thank you.  And that's why I believe what happened later was in Shepard's head.  I don't know if there was a particular post you were referring to when you linked that page.  Sorry.

[Lankist]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Lankist wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Lankist wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Not a "fact" at all.

It's the fact that we were left with--the last thing we saw of the entire franchise. Whatever speculation you make thereafter is completely irrelevant, because if that were intended, it would have been in the game.

The last we saw was someone telling Shepard's story. So no, life thrived, not "everybody died" blabla.

If you need to flash-forward however many centuries into the future to find one semi-happy moment to leave on, perhaps it is not all that happy of an ending.

The "big picture" ending simply does not work because everything prior to the eleventh hour was a narrowly-focused character drama. It'd be like ending Friends by killing all of the Friends in a massive bus accident on their way to that coffee place, then flash-forwarding to the year 2183 just to show that the coffee place still exists.

Really? Our collective survival was one of the primary goals of the series - not how much technology gets preserved or the state of our current world or proving that everyone survived the immediate aftermath of the war. We were fighting so that we have some kind of future for us all, and the coda shows that our sacrifice was not for nothing. We succeeded. And despite there being a lot of character drama, this is not Friends in space. It's sci-fi above all else, and sometimes sci-fi is about the big picture and the big ideas.

Maybe for your Shepard, not mine.

I'm pretty sure my Shepard was spouting lines akin to "there's no point in saving tomorrow if there's nothing left by the end of today," talking about the evil calculus of war and fretting over whether or not they had sacrificed too much already.

Also mine never said he was fighting for the future. He quite frequently said he was fighting for the folks at his side.

I don't know what kind of decisions you were making, but that's where mine led me.

Modifié par Lankist, 19 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[Everwarden]

Persephone wrote...
Another entitled, arrogant insult.

...why do the fanboys always have to use the word 'entitled'? Bloody hell. 

[savionen]

saracen16 wrote...

savionen wrote...

@saracen

Okay. So the ending of the ending is terrible. Back to square one.

Casey Hudson: "So we designed Mass Effect 3 to be a series of endings to key plots and
storylines, each culminating in scenes that show you the consequences
of your actions.  You then carry the knowledge of these consequences
with you as you complete the final moments of your journey."

It doesn't get any clearer than that.

But yeah, I suppose with you it's back to Square One if you want to keep repeating the same copy-pasted arguments over and over and over and over again. You didn't even respond to my post properly.

No. you consider Mass Effect 3 the entire ending.

I said that the end of Mass Effect 3 was still bad. You still don't know what happened after the end, other than that pretty much everybody is dead. Good job saving Kelly Chambers from the Collectors in ME2, and then saving her from Cerberus in ME3, if she didn't get killed when the Reapers took the Citadel she died when Shepard blew it up.

[Costin_Razvan]

I've played ME since ME1 and I liked the endings quite a bit, I think was a good conclusion even though the Catalyst was bad and what they did with TIM was the worst thing in the series.

That said I took Control where the Citadel survives and there is the possibility of the Relays surviving.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 19 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[dfstone]

Of the 3 choices you are presented with (Merge, Control & Destroy) Merge and Control were used to indoctrinate Saren and The Illusive Man so I think its kinda obvious you're not supposed to pick those.

Modifié par dfstone, 19 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[Persephone]

majormajormmajor wrote...

Fecking ending defenders getting desperate. Backsides getting reamed in the polls, character assassination has failed, now they try the final desperate push of spamming the forums in the hope it will seem they outnumber the vocal minority of 90%

A truly pathetic and disgusting display from repugnant set of human swine

The hypocrisy is STRONG with this one. <_<

[Dimensio]

saracen16 wrote...

savionen wrote...

@saracen

Okay. So the ending of the ending is terrible. Back to square one.

Casey Hudson: "So we designed Mass Effect 3 to be a series of endings to key plots and
storylines, each culminating in scenes that show you the consequences
of your actions.  You then carry the knowledge of these consequences
with you as you complete the final moments of your journey."

It doesn't get any clearer than that.

But yeah, I suppose with you it's back to Square One if you want to keep repeating the same copy-pasted arguments over and over and over and over again. You didn't even respond to my post properly.

Mr. Hudson also stated “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and variety in them.”

[Shiran]

TyDurden13 wrote...

Joker being stranded is not a plot hole. What is a plot hole is why the Normandy was the only ship that had to run away from the explosion.

How do you know they were the only ship?

Remember Citadel had it petals open and it does act as Mass Relay. The conversion Wave engulf Earth first, long, long before, it is actually actively propagated across the Mass Relay Network. Gives plenty of time to realise what is happening.

[Costin_Razvan]

dfstone wrote...

Of the 3 choices you are presented with (Merge, Control & Destroy) Merge and Control were used to indoctrinate Saren and The Illusive Man so I think its kinda obvious you're not supposed to pick those.

Where they? I respectfully disagree on that.

[K_Tabris]

TyDurden13 wrote...

Joker being stranded is not a plot hole. What is a plot hole is why the Normandy was the only ship that had to run away from the explosion.

Because it's artistic and edgy.

[The Angry One]

Saracen, I must at least thank you for giving me understanding on how you liked the ending.
You have deliberately misinterpreted it, and rewritten it in your head.

[iceman6773]

Lightice_av wrote...

iceman6773 wrote...

I was kind of thinking to much of the indoctrination theory, and I just have to much of a hard time believing the Catalyst would actually give Shepard the choices to stop the Reapers at all. 

It's made pretty clear that the Catalyst isn't all that happy at its own solution; it just doesn't see a better option. That's where Shepard steps in.

Still it seems weird they give him/her the choice. To me just to many questions not enough answers.(Clips during the credits could work.)  I acually think adding to the ending is much better than getting rid of anything.

[Annora]

The Angry One wrote...

Evidence please.

The planet Earth. Also, there are between 200 and 400 billion stars in our galaxy, each with planets that carry a chance of having intelligent life. The panspermia theory is making some very interesting strides of late, but even without that, it's a numbers game. The likelihood of Earth being the only habitable planet, and humans being the only intelligent species, is incredibly arrogant and illogical.