1309 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Elite Midget wrote...

They're just hipsters trying to get attention and a rise out of those that hate the ending.

Ignore them, they aren't genuine in their intent.

Evidence for this insult, please.

[Kabraxal]

saracen16 wrote...

savionen wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

Dimensio wrote...

DragonRageGT wrote...

The only way to like the endings is if they are not real. At least for those who did play  since ME1. With very few exceptions. If there is some explanation for all the b/s in the last 10 minutes, then those 10 minutes could be brilliant. As it is now, it is just b/s.

Just check the Pool about the endings.  It is now 55.4k dislikes against 1.2k likes. That's gotta mean something.

http://social.biowar...06/polls/28989/

The poll is a false chocie trilemma.  While I believe the endings to be unsatisfying, my lack of satisfaction is a consequence of the failure of the events of the endings to be supported by adequate foreshadowing and explanation and the absence of any meaningful epilogue regarding the outcome of the depicted events.  That the ending lacks an arbitrary luminence is irrelevant; I can accept that the mass relays were destroyed and that this destruction results in dire consequences for the assembled races, but I am unsatisfied with the lack of any meaningful examination of these consequences, preferably an examination that is affected by choices made by the player throughout the game.

BioWare stated explicitly that this is up to the player to reflect on his or her own choices. That makes you more involved in the story, not less.

Might as well just not have played Mass Effect 3 and made up the game for myself I guess.

It's not that black and white. You've finished the game, right? Reflect on the choices you made and the lore behind the races (for example, the Krogans are planning revenge on the Salarians... will they enact that revenge?, etc.). You don't necessarily have to "imagine" or make up "fanfiction"; the ending forced you to ask questions about YOUR own galaxy. You think, yes, but only within the confines of the universe, not "so both the Krogans and Salarians are saved and suddenly they became friends".

O please... even for someone that likes the ending this is just basically bad corporate mumbo jumbo to hide the lack of closure in the ending.  Every other aspect of all three games showed direct consequences for your choices, the ending however is the polar opposite of that and offers nothing substantial to back up any claim.  I can come out and say the Krogan mutated to give birth to kittens because of the cure of the genophage, thus nuitering their violent tendencies for all time.  I don't actually see the affect of that choice I made in any meaningful way... ie a brief epilogue like DAO.

That is the issue people have with the endings.  It takes a series that was based of choice and consequence and as it stands now, the ending doesn't address most of those choices in any way.  Hell, the fact that you are railroaded into one ending with only slight differences only makes this worst at the moment.  DAO had the same kind of ending essentially, but the epilogues gave each player the variety based on what they did... ME so far has not completely delivered on the promise from the start of the trilogy.  So this defense "BUT I CAN IMAGINE" is not going to work.. the series was never sold as "you'll have an ending to speculate on", it was sold as "you can see how your choices affect the universe".  We are still waiting to see how many of those choices changed the universe:

How is the universe different with the Geth and almost no Quarians?  Or less Geth?  Or both in full power?
How is the universe with the Genophage Cured?  How is it without it?
How is the universe with Control different from Synergy or Destroyed?
How does Earth rebuild itself and deal with the refugees if the endings stand as is?  
How does Shepard's apparent survival change the universe compared to his death?
What happens to our Crew and all those NPCs we changed?  How do they differ with different choices?

That's just a small sampeling.  We bought ME3 to get answers... not make them up ourselves.  That is my ONLY real problem with the ending.

[Costin_Razvan]

This is going to get ugly, isn't it?

[stwu]

The Angry One wrote...

Persephone wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Don't bother with Saracen, he's made up his own ending the rest of us aren't privy to.

I don't call interpretation of an established ending "making up" one. I'm not going to dignify your personal attack with a response...

But I will dignify it with a report.

Interesting how this person engages in the dishonest tactic of using his own made up version of an ending to justify the real one, then gets upsets and reports (really?) when he's called out on it.
Very interesting.

He/She is reporting you for basically calling him deluded. 

That's reportable? 
And yes, when you start to make up your own ending and present it as fact, that hints of delusion.

Or indoctrination.......

[The Angry One]

Lightice_av wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The derelict Reaper was damaged in a battle. The entire Citadel was overloaded by firing the Crucible pulse. The entire system was compromised.

So you keep saying because you want it to crash and burn. But your hateful opinion doesn't make it a fact.

Yeah except we don't see that. We see the wards stay intact and buckle.

I know how large-mass objects behave in stressful situations. Even the grandest objects break like glass. So either the mass effect fields are still on, in which case the ruined Citadel stays intact and on orbit, or they break down, in which case the Citadel either comes down in tiny meteors, or stays up as a ring on Earth's orbit.

Irrelevant. You have no basis for assuming that they'll break into tiny pieces before they drop and hit the Earth. It's already in low Earth orbit, and we SEE the wards move. We SEE them buckle. They ARE being affected by gravity and not immediately disintegrating.

I do not want them to crash and burn, I want the exact opposite, but it is blatantly obvious that this is going to happen.

[The Angry One]

stwu wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

That's reportable? 
And yes, when you start to make up your own ending and present it as fact, that hints of delusion.

Or indoctrination.......

Quiet you.

[Shiran]

The Angry One wrote...

The Citadel is in low Earth orbit. Without mass effect fields, it's full mass will be applied and it will go down. That simple.

Where does it say that Citadel is LEO degrading orbit, and not in a stable geostationary orbit?

Even if it is LEO, Earth has planetary defences that can be fixed and repaired, not to mention as it was pointed out the significant part of the combined fleet is there that can pulverise any signficant chunks before they become a problem. It is really not an issue.

Also, Quarians lifeships are there because they wre converted to dreadnought, but that doesn't mean they actually have their civilians on them. Civilians are bust on Rannoch, relearning agriculture and fighting with each other for most scenic places to build their houses.

[Xeranx]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Those who like the endings haven't thought about it as much as those that have. Or, at the very least, don't care about the numerous plot holes the ending contains.

Those who do care.. hate the endings.


I've had private debates with multiple people who thought the endings were fine... only to reveal they had no idea about the numerous plot holes the game contained...

So, based on those, ignorance is behind why anyone liked those endings...

Please point out the plot holes or point everyone to a thread that lists the plot holes - preferably in the first post since it will most likely move as fast as this one if not.

I still hold that what people are stating as fact isn't fact.

What is a fact is we saw endings where Joker is escaping using the relay.  What isn't fact is that it actually happened.  If it did, the question becomes, why and how was that allowed?  If it didn't the question becomes, what really happened then?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I've seen paintings in art museums with large values on them that I could have done with a roller and bucket. There was one painting hanging in the main corporate office that looked like someone ate pizza and drank way too much beer an hurled on the canvas. It was worth a lot of money. I've heard some piano music that sounded like a child banging on the keys. All that is considered art. People pay good money for it because someone with a big name did it, and because that big name is on it they will say they like it to sound hip.

If I were to do the same exact work, it would be thought of as garbage. Why? Because the illusion of quality isn't there. It wouldn't be hip to like it.

[valkulon]

Can't I just like an ending to like it? I don't really need to explain myself do I? I'm not asking people to explain why they don't like the ending, mostly because I understand why they don't like it, but I myself liked the ending.

It's not the ending I was looking for that's for sure, I do have my own problems with it, namely the jump from the Citadel being a bastion of defense to suddenly in Reaper control, but I still liked the ending overall.

[dfstone]

If you saved Wrex in ME1 he leads the Krogan in ME2 and in ME3 he makes a pact with the female Krogan to unite the clans and not seek revenge for the genophage. So your prior choices do matter in the game. Its just at the ending where they don't seem to play any role and I think thats the problem people are having.

[Tyrzun]

Persephone wrote...

greengoron89 wrote...

I hate to call someone out of the crowd, but...

...relax, Persephone - you're gonna give yourself an ulcer. I think you're getting more fiery over this than some of the anti-ending crowd are. Tensions are high, but getting that worked up over this mess doesn't do anyone any good.

That goes for all of you. I've been in support of the anti-ending crowd for the most part, but the level of butthurt on both sides is the highest I've seen it yet - it's getting pretty deep, far more than even I expected it to get.

Seriously, not gonna end will at this rate. Cool your jets, folks.

I understand.

And you do have a point. I'm simply sick and tired for having abuse fired at me for liking ONE of the three endings. I agree, they need work. But that's not ENOUGH, you MUST hate them, otherwise "you're not a true fan". That is what upsets me, to be honest.

No you are just another person jumping into a discussion you know nothing about.

Both producers promised ME 3 would not have 3 generic endings.  Chris in fact stated there would not be A, B, and C endings.  They both said all of your choices would change the endings into specific personal endings.

You have no grounds for liking being lied to, it is an opinion that cannot be defended.  It has nothing to do if you like the 3 choices, the problem is there are ONLY 3 choices and they are exactly the same.  The NEW players get the same endings as the people that invested time and money into ME 1 and ME 2.  Those long time fans were promised ME 3 would also tie up all loose ends.  Others have took the time to put all of those interviews on these forums with links.

However, since you OBVIOUSLY didn't follow the development of ME 3 you would have known these things already.

You're opinion of the endings is irrelevant.  The fans were lied to.  You just weren't informed enough about what it was supposed to be to know that.  Like all other people that "like" the 3 endings.  However, I don't care.  All polls have you WAY WAY outnumbered because most ME fans are educated on what the serious was supposed to be and what was promised.  

[Elite Midget]

Persephone wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

They're just hipsters trying to get attention and a rise out of those that hate the ending.

Ignore them, they aren't genuine in their intent.

Evidence for this insult, please.

Not an insult,. I'm saying it as it is. Those that "Liked"  the ending as they say have made it their mission to post in random topics denounceing those that hated it than going "in my opinion this game is still perfect" or  "you all just don't understand the ending".

Their intent was meant to insult and belittle the intelligence of the majority on this board. It is worse on other parts of the net where the hipsters can say as they desire without fear of reprecussion.

[saracen16]

The Angry One wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Let's put this retreat debate to rest.
Admiral Hackett is the fleet commander. Therefore only Admiral Hackett may issue a general fleet retreat. The end.

Is that your response to "Admiral Hackett orders down the chain of command, and the lower tier commanders give the orders to their subordinates?" You repeat the same argument?

You're trolling. Plain and simple.

Admiral Hackett maintains direct contact with the fleet, and Shepard.
Moreover any general retreat given by Hackett to subordinates would be prefaced with "Orders from Admiral Hackett" or "Orders from fleet command."

Not if the order is repeated from before, as we don't know when or whether Hackett gave the order while Shepard was knocked unconscious by Harbinger. We don't have any sufficient information as to whether the whole fleet is still fighting or segments or all of it are retreating.

Modifié par saracen16, 19 mars 2012 - 08:15 .

[Velesfray]

The ending is as original as the stock photos they used. It's not like - 10 plot holes but the ending was original and deep...instead I've seen parodies with less cliche endings.

I am not surprised. No one reads anymore so the ending was original and deep... *facepalm
Sadly COD endings are more original in perspective.

[Vikali]

Elite Midget wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

They're just hipsters trying to get attention and a rise out of those that hate the ending.

Ignore them, they aren't genuine in their intent.

Evidence for this insult, please.

Not an insult,. I'm saying it as it is. Those that "Liked"  the ending as they say have made it their mission to post in random topics denounceing those that hated it than going "in my opinion this game is still perfect" or  "you all just don't understand the ending".

Their intent was meant to insult and belittle the intelligence of the majority on this board. It is worse on other parts of the net where the hipsters can say as they desire without fear of reprecussion.

You can say that for both people on the fence. The OMG ENDINGS SUCK people go into every thread and try to derail it so they can moan about what's bothering them. And a lot of the time in topics unrelated to the endings.

[saracen16]

Elite Midget wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

They're just hipsters trying to get attention and a rise out of those that hate the ending.

Ignore them, they aren't genuine in their intent.

Evidence for this insult, please.

Not an insult,. I'm saying it as it is. Those that "Liked"  the ending as they say have made it their mission to post in random topics denounceing those that hated it than going "in my opinion this game is still perfect" or  "you all just don't understand the ending".

Where have we done the latter? Saying the former is not demeaning or denouncing anyone: it's just the poster stating his or her opinion.

Their intent was meant to insult and belittle the intelligence of the majority on this board. It is worse on other parts of the net where the hipsters can say as they desire without fear of reprecussion.

If that's your view, you are certainly welcome to it, but don't think for one second that we don't feel the same way about those who arrogantly shove off our arguments as nothing but "pretentious drivel".

[CPTHughJardon]

i dont like this hole artistic argument thing.if i wanted a piece of art i would have bought a painting,instead i bought a game that PROMISED a definitive end,full closure ect we've all seen biowares pre release spin.a couple of things id just like to add.if the mass relay explosive power is absorbed and indeed negated by the "beam",then how on earth is the normandy not completely obliterated by it?and just on a side not as i read people discussing the citadel exploding over earth and the damage it will do nobody seems to mention the fact that in the last space battle cinematic,the reapers are all in front of earth as a shed load of ships open fire on them.not every shell hit them so what happened to them?

[K_Tabris]

Kabraxal wrote...

How is the universe different with the Geth and almost no Quarians?  Or less Geth?  Or both in full power?
How is the universe with the Genophage Cured?  How is it without it?
How is the universe with Control different from Synergy or Destroyed?
How does Earth rebuild itself and deal with the refugees if the endings stand as is?  
How does Shepard's apparent survival change the universe compared to his death?
What happens to our Crew and all those NPCs we changed?  How do they differ with different choices?

That's just a small sampeling.  We bought ME3 to get answers... not make them up ourselves.  That is my ONLY real problem with the ending.

I agree, 100%.  This is the main problem with the ending. Epilogues should have happened, or something else appropriate for the series.  Instead we get a brainstormed Deus Ex/Matrix 3 ending that doesn't quite fit in with the rest of the series. After Shepard made his/her choice, there should have been some follow-up scenes, or...something. Anything. It's perfectly fine to leave some stuff up to speculation, and some things left unanswered.  But leaving almost everything unanswered, and absolutely no closure does the franchise, as well as the fans a great disservice.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

dfstone wrote...

If you saved Wrex in ME1 he leads the Krogan in ME2 and in ME3 he makes a pact with the female Krogan to unite the clans and not seek revenge for the genophage. So your prior choices do matter in the game. Its just at the ending where they don't seem to play any role and I think thats the problem people are having.

Wrex also gets stranded on Earth, so he can't lead the krogan anymore; and the krogan become isolated, so it doesn't matter whether they want revenge for the genophage or not.

So that's how much your choices matter.

[The Angry One]

saracen16 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Let's put this retreat debate to rest.
Admiral Hackett is the fleet commander. Therefore only Admiral Hackett may issue a general fleet retreat. The end.

Is that your response to "Admiral Hackett orders down the chain of command, and the lower tier commanders give the orders to their subordinates?" You repeat the same argument?

You're trolling. Plain and simple.

Admiral Hackett maintains direct contact with the fleet, and Shepard.
Moreover any general retreat given by Hackett to subordinates would be prefaced with "Orders from Admiral Hackett" or "Orders from fleet command."

Not if the order is repeated from before, as we don't know when or whether Hackett gave the order while Shepard was knocked unconscious by Harbinger. We don't have any sufficient information as to whether the whole fleet is still fighting or segments or all of it are retreating.

Sigh. The person says "Hammer is down! All forces retreat!"
This is a reactionairy order. As in, from that moment. Hammer has been destroyed, so all supporting forces ON THE GROUND must retreated or be annihilated.
This has nothing to do with the space battle.

[Lightice_av]

The Angry One wrote...

Irrelevant. You have no basis for assuming that they'll break into tiny pieces before they drop and hit the Earth. It's already in low Earth orbit, and we SEE the wards move. We SEE them buckle. They ARE being affected by gravity and not immediately disintegrating.

Which makes it quite clear that the mass effect fields are still functional. An object the side of the Citadel could not stay intact like that in Earth's gravity well. It would shatter almost instantly. Low enough it could make the damage you speak of in the process. But there's absolutely no evidence it is that low - considering the scale, I'd say it's close to the Lagrange point between Earth and Moon (which is much closer to Earth than Moon, just in case you bring that up), actually. And the fact that it's not instantly in pieces speaks for the probability that the mass effect fields still work just fine.

There's nothing obvious about what's going to happen to the Citadel, but it has many options besides crashing and burning, and since it's perfectly obvious that the Mass Effect franchise will live on, so does Earth. Hence, it's obvious that just about any other option besides the Citadel's fall is going to happen, and there are many.

[K_Tabris]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

This is going to get ugly, isn't it?

It doesn't have to:wizard:  So far, much of this is quite enjoyable to read.  It's the angsty teenage bickering that makes it painful >_>

Luckily some of them are reigning it in a bit.